Cash shop pricing is getting a bit much...

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

04-26-2018, 01:40 PM
RiyahArp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're complaining that a company is selling a product to a market that's willing to pay for it and in enough numbers that it is profitable.

Its more complex. We are all part of the market for ffxiv, while we segment into submarkets when it comes to the mogstation. The point I was trying to make is that the market segment is in its way powerful enough to drag the whole market along, and the whole market is captive because there isn't a symmetrical aspect to "buy things to show support." That means if the segment gets increasingly catered too, the main market gets dragged along until some form of catastrophe happens.

Like enough people shop at walmart (segment) to keep it going, no matter if its harmful to the overall market (people who buy retail.) There's a debate whether this is true or not, and its too long to go into here, but that's kind of what I mean. The point i was referring too is about "just don't do it," as a response, but even if you don't, the market is still shaped by the actions of others.

As for the complaining, it's more a warning to SE to be careful with the cash shop. I'm trying not to be extreme on this, because the cash shop is generally ok. But its pretty easy to get worse; Black Desert is a very good example of glamour micros that charge what the market can bear.
04-26-2018, 02:19 PM
Krotoan

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Its more complex. We are all part of the market for ffxiv, while we segment into submarkets when it comes to the mogstation. The point I was trying to make is that the market segment is in its way powerful enough to drag the whole market along, and the whole market is captive because there isn't a symmetrical aspect to "buy things to show support." That means if the segment gets increasingly catered too, the main market gets dragged along until some form of catastrophe happens.

Like enough people shop at walmart (segment) to keep it going, no matter if its harmful to the overall market (people who buy retail.) There's a debate whether this is true or not, and its too long to go into here, but that's kind of what I mean. The point i was referring too is about "just don't do it," as a response, but even if you don't, the market is still shaped by the actions of others.

The problem with walmart is they are a giant crushing smaller businesses by out discounting them and eating the losses. Indeed that is not a debate I care to bring into "is 18 dollars expensive for non-existant clothes". However this is far from that case as well. They aren't muscling out other games since their product is only redeemable within the confines of their own game.

You know what WOULD be a powerful vote though? If many people bought things when they went on sale. I would bet you though that this isn't the case. People who don't buy things on the cash shop aren't 30 or even 40% away from buying the item. It's either worth money to them or it isn't most of the time. If it's worth actual money they will find the money to pay for eventually by saving. If it's not then it will have to get incredibly reduced for them to even consider the purchase. All conjecture sure, but buying something IS a more powerful vote than NOT buying something.

All in all you are originally complaining that the prices are raising, which they are not. New types of items are being made available and many of them at the same time. You are not obligated to buy all items at once. You are no more manipulated to buy virtual items than you are to pay for the subscription fee. You can stop at any time and while I will readily concede there are people with genuine mental issues that CANNOT stop, it's a disservice to everyone else to consider them the norm and an insult to the competence of the general public to police their purchasing for them.

This catastrophe you imagine is.. what? That the cash-shop will become all intrusive and have it's fingers in gear, job unlocks and quest progression? FFXIV will become a game you cannot keep current in unless you drop more money than the subscription? It's a genuine question, what is this disaster you hope to rally the community to avoid? I'm going to venture that your worst nightmare for FFXIV is someone elses ideal game.

I can applaud your conviction if this is truly about the well-being of this game we all enjoy, but if your stated concern is just because "things are too expensive and might get more expensive"? It's going to be a harsh world out there for you.
04-26-2018, 03:57 PM
KaivaC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

You know, I've bitten my tongue about as long as I can stand. This is like the 3rd time you've done insulted people who do buy things from the cash shop... *oh don't you worry, I am typing in the rest of my edit right now...I'll just post it at the end of the page*
04-26-2018, 04:01 PM
Alleo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krotoan

It can. However comparing someone complaining about the price of something because they just don't want to pay money for it to someone who doesn't want to do something they've technically paid for access for and have suggestions on how to make better is quite a stretch.

For some glamour or mounts are important. (I mean would people really farm content that much if it did not have glamour or mounts in it?) I for example would have loved to have the carbuncle as a mount but the only way to get one of them is to pay. I would be way less annoyed if cash shop only had either re-colored versions of existing mounts or old event items. But exclusive items in a game that we already pay monthly for is just bad imo.

I am fine if they put the stuff from the other versions in the cash shop too, if they costs real money over there but its getting really annoying to see unique mounts only in there. And then the stuff does cost quite a bit. These are only digital goods. After they are created you kinda dont need more money to sell it. Just a one time creation and you are done. Sell one mount for 10 Dollars to 500 people and you earned 5000 $. Have 1000 people and you are already earning 10.000 $. Isnt that enough? I mean they are probably earning quite a lot of money from all the service changes and Fantasia..shouldnt that be more than enough to finance the cash shop?

In the end I am quite sure that if some real life goods suddenly cost a lot more people would also be annoyed and complain about it. Its kinda the same here. Would be interesting to know if they would earn more if they decrease the price or if that would hurt them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're complaining that a company is selling a product to a market that's willing to pay for it and in enough numbers that it is profitable. There are extremes of this that are actually morally questionable such as slavery and price gouging on essential services and supplies but satisfying a market need for a costume that doesn't actually exist isn't one of them. Moral outrage at the high price of a luxury item IN a luxury service is ridiculous to me.

Would you be fine if they would sell unique (and maybe highly requested) mounts for 200$? Because I am quite sure that there are still people that would buy that and you also only need a couple of buyers to get some money. I mean the market is buying it right? The problem with it being profitable is that a digital good cant just run out and does not have much cost after the creation. So even if they sold something overpriced they will probably still make profit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If there wasn’t a cash shop, these items just wouldn’t exist at all. They wouldn’t suddenly become available in an undyeable version, or as part of an event, or an achievement reward. The Chinese and Korean items were specifically commissioned by the third-party corporations that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV in their respective countries, and they were paid for by the individuals in those countries. Asking for them for free is entitlement.

Yes SE once stated that they only exist because of the cash shop (I think) but is that really true? I mean no company would just go out of their way and tell us that these might have been rewards for content but instead they put it behind a paywall because they would get money from that..so it might be that we would not get everything from the cash shop but I doubt that each item would not exist. There is no fact for that. We simply dont know. (And honestly if they dont exist we would not be much angered because we would not know that it could have existed.)
04-26-2018, 04:05 PM
Vstarstruck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleo

For some glamour or mounts are important. (I mean would people really farm content that much if it did not have glamour or mounts in it?) I for example would have loved to have the carbuncle as a mount but the only way to get one of them is to pay. I would be way less annoyed if cash shop only had either re-colored versions of existing mounts or old event items. But exclusive items in a game that we already pay monthly for is just bad imo.
I am fine if they put the stuff from the other versions in the cash shop too, if they costs real money over there but its getting really annoying to see unique mounts only in there. And then the stuff does cost quite a bit. These are only digital goods. After they are created you kinda dont need more money to sell it. Just a one time creation and you are done. Sell one mount for 10 Dollars to 500 people and you earned 5000 $. Have 1000 people and you are already earning 10.000 $. Isnt that enough? I mean they are probably earning quite a lot of money from all the service changes and Fantasia..shouldnt that be more than enough to finance the cash shop?

In the end I am quite sure that if some real life goods suddenly cost a lot more people would also be annoyed and complain about it. Its kinda the same here. Would be interesting to know if they would earn more if they decrease the price or if that would hurt them.

Would you be fine if they would sell unique (and maybe highly requested) mounts for 200$? Because I am quite sure that there are still people that would buy that and you also only need a couple of buyers to get some money. I mean the market is buying it right? The problem with it being profitable is that a digital good cant just run out and does not have much cost after the creation. So even if they sold something overpriced they will probably still make profit.

There is no reproduction cost, so these prices are just cash grabby. SE is not hurting for money, so why not experiment a bit with lower prices???driven by greed, all it is.
04-26-2018, 04:10 PM
HyoMinPark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleo

Isnt that enough? I mean they are probably earning quite a lot of money from all the service changes and Fantasia..shouldnt that be more than enough to finance the cash shop?

FFXIV is funding the FFVII Remake in the same way it funded FFXV. Most of the money it brings in—from subs and the cash shop—probably go into FFVII Remake production, FFXV DLC chronologing Noctis’ every day breakfast choices, and other SE projects. Then a bit goes back into FFXIV. But SE uses FFXIV to fund other projects first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleo

Yes SE once stated that they only exist because of the cash shop (I think) but is that really true? I mean no company would just go out of their way and tell us that these might have been rewards for content but instead they put it behind a paywall because they would get money from that..so it might be that we would not get everything from the cash shop but I doubt that each item would not exist. There is no fact for that. We simply dont know. (And honestly if they dont exist we would not be much angered because we would not know that it could have existed.)

There are two different art teams that design gear—one for in-game, and one for the cash shop. If there was no cash shop, there would be no need for the cash shop team to design these items; at least not for NA/EU/JP. And you can count on the Chinese and Korean items never coming over here, because they are specifically commissioned by the companies that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV. They sell for real money over in China and Korea; do you think that SE would bring them over to NA/EU/JP and hand them out for free? No, they would not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

There is no reproduction cost, so these prices are just cash grabby. SE is not hurting for money, so why not experiment a bit with lower prices???driven by greed, all it is.

There is no such thing as a business who thinks “I’ve made enough money; no need to make any more”. Ever. While the $18 USD outfits could stand to be account-wide at the least, there is no business alive who isn’t out to make as much money as possible. The larger the scale of the business, the higher they aim for in terms of profits.
04-26-2018, 04:16 PM
KaivaC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

Requesting things from the cash shop and buying them every once in a while does not equal being a whale. And for those who are whales that do like to buy everything, that has no bearing on how pricing on the cash shop works. Hyomin pointed out exactly how the devs price things in the cash shop, with a few exceptions, and that seems to have gotten ignored in favor of this ‘oh my god, FFXIV is dying because of greed’ mentality that seems to have overrun the forums lately.

Yes…maybe FFXIV is reaching a bit for money, but for those of you out there to attack other posters for how they want to spend their money is honestly none of your damn business. If I want the mount, I will get the mount. If you don’t like it: tough. If you can’t afford it: that’s okay, let’s just hope that it goes on sale in the future. If you don’t buy out of protest: protest with your wallet, but don’t attack anybody who does want to purchase items from the cash shop.

I’m all for discussion and debate. Many of y’all know this. A lot of conversations do get heated about various subjects. But this doomsaying that’s been trending on a level almost worse than what's on reddit needs to honestly stop. Because I have purchased things from the cash shop, I (and others who bought things) deserve to be bad-mouthed and attacked and blamed in part because of the current state of affairs? If that’s the trend, that you deserved to be insulted for making some damn purchases on a virtual store, then that’s not an issue with the game…

…that’s an issue with THIS community.
04-26-2018, 04:16 PM
Vstarstruck

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

FFXIV is funding the FFVII Remake in the same way it funded FFXV. Most of the money it brings in—from subs and the cash shop—probably go into FFVII Remake production, FFXV DLCchronologing Noctis’ every day breakfast choices, and other SE projects. Then a bit goes back into FFXIV. But SE uses FFXIV to fund other projects first.

There is no such thing as a business who thinks “I’ve made enough money; no need to make any more”. Ever. While the $18 USD outfits could stand to be account-wide at the least, there is no business alive who isn’t out to make as much money as possible. The larger the scale of the business, the higher they aim for in terms of profits.

Well they lose out on any profits like me that see them pushing too far for exploitation so there is that I guess... If they want to have business with few with more money over a wider audience with less money, that is their decision.

But what happens when gaming businesses get too greedy?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNiVSj9uzTw
04-26-2018, 04:21 PM
HyoMinPark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Well they lose out on any profits like me that see them pushing too far for exploitation so there is that I guess... If they want to have business with few with more money over a wider audience with less money, that is their decision.

But what happens when gaming businesses get too greedy?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNiVSj9uzTw

Well, considering SE is making far more money off of monthly subscriptions as opposed to cash shop purchases, you unsubbing hurts them far more than you not buying a fire footwheels mount for your character. But you seem to still be subbed, so SE is still making profit off of you.
04-26-2018, 04:42 PM
Alleo

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

FFXIV is funding the FFVII Remake in the same way it funded FFXV. Most of the money it brings in—from subs and the cash shop—probably go into FFVII Remake production, FFXV DLC chronologing Noctis’ every day breakfast choices, and other SE projects. Then a bit goes back into FFXIV. But SE uses FFXIV to fund other projects first.

There are two different art teams that design gear—one for in-game, and one for the cash shop. If there was no cash shop, there would be no need for the cash shop team to design these items; at least not for NA/EU/JP. And you can count on the Chinese and Korean items never coming over here, because they are specifically commissioned by the companies that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV. They sell for real money over in China and Korea; do you think that SE would bring them over to NA/EU/JP and hand them out for free? No, they would not.

There is no such thing as a business who thinks “I’ve made enough money; no need to make any more”. Ever. While the $18 USD outfits could stand to be account-wide at the least, there is no business alive who isn’t out to make as much money as possible. The larger the scale of the business, the higher they aim for in terms of profits.

And as a customer of FF14 I honestly dont care if they need that to finance game number x or another DLC of 15. I am fine if the overall money gets divided in SE (thats how a company works) but I wont take that as an argument to milk us of money..also wasnt it said that Cash shop money stays with FF14?

Again it might be that we would not get the items (but we simply dont know) but maybe the team that is there for the cash shop would be then creating glamour and mounts for the rest of the game thus giving us more items there. Or they would be used in other SE projects. We dont know so I would not say that its 100% that way.

Yes business lives to make money..but why do we as the customers should agree with all those ways they make money? They are not our friends, we dont get our share from this. We are paying them money to use something they produce and thus have the right to write when it goes a way we dont like. EA also only wants to make money so why complain when they introduce lootboxes..I mean you dont need them right and maybe those items would not exist without the lootbox. Yet lootboxes are probably one of the biggest cancer of the current gaming industry and EA rightfully got a lot of rage for that. Or would SE suddenly be bad if they decide to put the cash shop items behind lootboxes? And if so why? I mean its still just a mount that you dont need and if thats too much money thanks to RNG you simply dont need to buy them. (Yes it might a bit too much but its just funny to me how lootboxes are like the devil [and I do dislike it] but milking us in a sub MMO with cash shop sales is fine)

I mean you can go the way that companies like EA go (and which seems to be the path that SE wants to walk too) but you also have companies like CD red project and their Witcher 3 series..not only did we get any "DLC" for free but the two expansions could finally be called an expansion and was worth every money for the amount of content we got. Not some 15 $ DLC with one new mission about one character..

At the beginning I was fine with giving SE my money. I got two mounts from the cash shop (in sale) because I believed that I would help them make the game better..and I bought merchandise too. Thanks to the way they are handling a lot of stuff for the last few months, the only cash shop items I got were gifts from friends that I could not talk out of it and I did not buy a single merchandise again and wont do that in the future.. A friend ingame who is a big FF fan also said that the way the whole company is going is way too greedy for him and that he will stop buying merchandise and collectors edition from them. And he was someone that did buy quite some bit. We may be only two people but who knows how far they will go in the future (especially with the app..) and maybe there will be a point where its more than just a handful of people that stop it.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page