Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

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Originally Posted by GurneyHalleck

I haven't fought Titan yet, but it goes like this...

enemy starts casting aoe->red appears on ground->red disappears from ground->enemy casts aoe

You have to be out of the red area BEFORE it disappears, the red area disappears BEFORE the spell is cast. Figure out the system, work in it, then own it.

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http://youtu.be/QsHuXAl-bOY?t=6m21s

Notice how this guy is out of the AoE BEFORE it disappears and BEFORE the cast bar is full?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GurneyHalleck

I haven't fought Titan yet, but it goes like this...

enemy starts casting aoe->red appears on ground->red disappears from ground->enemy casts aoe

You have to be out of the red area BEFORE it disappears, the red area disappears BEFORE the spell is cast. Figure out the system, work in it, then own it.

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*facepalm*

We are getting hit outside of the AOE area and no issue with ground marker and cast bar timings can explain that since those only affect time, not location. A player should never be hit outside of the area of effect.

A group of 7 pre-made can charge people all day and guarantee a 1 shot, do it over 30+ times a day with out 1 person getting killed or hit by an AOE.
It's called your latency, your reaction speed, and your inability to realise that the animation dissapearing does not signal the definitive time it will do damage to you.

The fact that you can step out of the "circle" .5 seconds before it goes off, does not mean your safe. It means, that 1 second prior to that circle going away, is when the damage effect will mark who it will hit. The circle will then dissapear, and you will be hit.

The fact that people don't seem to understand this, are just slow.

You want SE to fix this? Yo SE, Shorten the duration of the circles on the ground (the animation) by 1 second. That will 100% fix the issue, because then people will be getting hit and see the circle lined up with the damage timer. The delayed damage seems to not be something these people understand is in the game.

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Originally Posted by Saerie

*facepalm*

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Lol exactly that. Jesus Christ some people think they are so smart dont they.

Thank HEAVENS someone explained the whole COMMUNITY how AoE works! >_<

Daily bump.

Happy to listen to the few "saints" who come in to tell us about how AOE and the casting bar works. You guys are so helpful... Shame you obviously haven't looked at the past 90 pages of SS and videos showing that this is utter BS.

Sadly until I get an official response the posts will go on. Wonder how long till this reaches 100 pages.

I mean hell even if they come in and say everything is as it should be that would be something... but as per usual SE silence on the important stuff cracks me up.

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Originally Posted by Genjisamurai

Fix the tank classes. They are boring as hell!

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To be honest, all classes are, because of animation "coodlowns" combat feels extremely unsatisfying.

Maybe once this hits 100 pages we shall get some answers?

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Originally Posted by Asmodeus

Maybe once this hits 100 pages we shall get some answers?

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The remake of XIV will fix this... oh wait

happens to me all the time lol.

you can be way out of AOE and somehow it'll still hit you.

and yes i'm in the USA.

Soooo... SE?

Still nothing? Nothing at all, really? Is it because you have absolutely no clue on how to fix this? :confused:

Formed an All PC Group on TeamSpeak3 Last night for titan HM with Pld, War, Mnk, Blm, Brd, Brd, Whm, Whm. We got to 10% on the first try, and killed him on the 2nd Try without using LB on the heart (with a war in the group). I, being the war, was pulling 160+ dps, more than some drg's I've seen (so war get's a lot of unfair bias on this fight).

The gear requirements we place on the fight was IL60 (AK Gear) or better, and I shouted like "PST me your CPU and Graphics card for Titan Run".... 4 People from FC, most of us with i5-2500k's or better with SSD's and 760GTX+ Nvidia gpus.

I blame the PS3 and Low End PC's.

I'm seriously considering making a program that does a DXDiag and uploads it to my webserver and integrating it with the guild site as a requirement for joining, So people can't fake their DXDiag report...

I feel for people on PS3 who can't afford gaming PC's, but regardless of how unfair it is, the PS3 is underperforming on this game and 9/10 people I see get hit by plumes, their on PS3 and not in TeamSpeak with us. I'm literally to the point where I don't even want to be in the same group with people on a PS3, nothing personal. But playing on the PS3 takes a lot more skill than PC, because you need to work around the lag and preemptively react to every boss ability.

And to anyone lagging on PC, either
1. Your PC is underpowered (low amd gpu, budget cpu)
2. Your ON Wifi on a bad ISP
3. Your tethered to your phone
4. Or your geographically for from the servers, (E.g. EU).

People in the US, east/central on decent PC's shouldn't have issues dodging titan.

There are also tricks you can do to decrease latency. I tweaked my nic's driver settings and disabled nagle's algorithm and got my game latency down to 44 miliseconds, I live in nothern virginia.

The EU really just needs it's own rack of servers that aren't on the other side of an ocean.

make the server do the last position check when aoe actually come out, check where we are at the moment that aoe hit, not where we were 2-3 seconds ago.

This issue and SE not doing anything to fix it ASAP is causing many players to quit, gg.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

The gear requirements we place on the fight was IL60 (AK Gear) or better, and I shouted like "PST me your CPU and Graphics card for Titan Run".... 4 People from FC, most of us with i5-2500k's or better with SSD's and 760GTX+ Nvidia gpus.

I blame the PS3 and Low End PC's.

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Netcode deals with strictly information. It has nothing to do with your hardware performance. It's how your client talks to the server.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

There are no words to express the dumb in this post. You need an SSD to avoid Titan AoE? Are you for serious?

Netcode deals with strictly information. It has nothing to do with your hardware performance. It's how your client talks to the server.

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Indeed... Ryios is basically stating that anyone with a PS3 cannot play this game correctly...

If it has to do with netcode. How come I can stand in a plume and walk out and not get hit with 99.999999% success? I got hit 1 time the entire fight and that was phase 5 when I got boxed in between plumes and a bomb and I had to choose (eat 1 plume or eat the bomb, I chose the plume).

At first, during all the fail runs I agreed mostly with the statements in this thread, because everyone was getting hit but me. But after the group last night of all pcs and no one getting hit by plumes until phase 5, I don't think it has anything to do with netcode.

Ok maybe it could be more effecient, but if your latency is low enough, and your CPU is fast enough you can dodge crap just fine.

And for hardware not mattering.... Yes it does. You do realize that the network stack in windows is software processed right (e.g. it runs on your CPU). Stuff goes out your nic and comes in your nic, but get's processed on your CPU. So if the netcode is indeed bloated

(e.g.)...

100 MOB | TITAN | ABILITY | WEIGHT OF THE LAND | START TIMER
instead of
000000010000000001000000100000003000001

Then yeah, having a Faster CPU does matter, because a fast CPU Can parse crappy server responses faster than a crappy CPU can do it, thus you get out of stuff they can't.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

snip

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Yet another one of the people arguing the wrong thing. Yes, the fight is doable right now, but you can't rely on the on-screen indicators. Yes, you can move out of plumes, but if you aren't out by the last probably.. 1/4th to 1/8th of the cast bar then you will get hit regardless of if you're out when the cast actually finishes.

There is lag. Play the game side by side with someone and watch how long it takes to show an action you've done on their computer. Better yet, watch the cast bars of people in your party. Without fail it always looks like casts are interrupted (that's the whole lag thing). I've beat Titan, my FC is downing it regularly now. Just because it's possible doesn't mean there isn't an issue. People should be able to rely strictly on the indicators we're given in game.

This has been accepted in the bug forum, Yoshi himself has said that the server only checks your location every .3 seconds. Why do people keep denying it's a thing?

I have three set ups here that can all play the game. A very good gaming rig, a vaio laptop I use for work and a PS3. Whatever I play on yields the same issues. Tell me that the issue is my geographic position and fine, but that will not cut it as a solution "Sorry you cannot progress you do not live next door to the server" will not cut it for a lot of players. My connection is very very good and always has been on the long list of MMOs I play who's servers are located all around the world.

Even if the issue was PS3 holding the game back what percentage of players do you think play on ps3? They aren't going to be able to ignore it if thats the issue.

170ms ping and I've been hit by landslide up to 1.2 seconds after leaving the AoE. But to be perfectly honest? I love it this way. Weep for those who haven't had to deal with this..because they're playing the game on easy mode and they'll never get to experience this. An already brilliant fight is made so much more brutally unforgiving because of this, and I love every second. It makes me nostalgic for the old cartridge-era battles in its difficulty. If this is just about getting your relics, get some guildies to carry you through or(uhg) pay people for it. But please don't make Square fix this. Accept this awful server design as unintentionally giving us an exhilarating challenge, not as something ruining the game. Please believe me, even if Titan chose his attacks randomly(AWESOME) instead of fixed, this is something that can be triumphed over. Put aside questions of gil per hour, put aside questions of wasted time. Do people play FPSes for some reward? MOABs? Angry Birds? Freecell?

Wasn't challenging for me at all really. I learned the skill order, I get hit by zero landslides, and 1 plume (unavoidable unless I want to eat a bomb in phase 5 due to player spread). I use the visual indicators to get out of stuff and it doesn't hit me. And about the only thing I can say to that is my ping is 44 MS, I have a 4.8ghz overclocked water cooled CPU with an Nvidia 760GTX graphics card on a monitor at 2560X1440 and 3 SSDS (2 for the OS in raid 0, and 1 for my games 'e.g. FFXIV'). I do not have the issues on this fight that others are reporting. I see something on the ground, I jump out of it.

Maybe the jump key is the key. I jump a lot. Someone told me they read a post somewhere that jump causes the server to update your xyz faster than once every .3 seconds, so I jump (literally 'spacebar') our of everything and nothing hits me.

What was challenging was finding 7 people who are like me, and also can move out of stuff without these issues.

Maybe the game client is storing incoming tcp ip traffic on disk and parsing it like a log, those SSDs are better!!! wouldn't suprise me at this point....

I'm on a laggy POS PC and internet connection, and I still managed to handle him no problem after getting the mechanics down. Granted, I won't lie and say they have no latency issues. Yet more times than not, when you see yourself out of the animation before it went off on the ground..... half the time I noticed most of you -aren't- getting out of it by time the cast-bar is completed. And thats what gives the illusion more times than not you made it in time. I've been victim of this too.

I did Titan without getting hit even once by the AOEs... no idea what this thread is all about

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

half the time I noticed most of you -aren't- getting out of it by time the cast-bar is completed.

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Keep in mind that players are on about a 1 second delay for you. You're seeing other player's actions about 1 second late. Which is why people appear to stand in things, or hesitate to move. Going through Brayflox, tanking the last boss he does a line aoe attack in front of him that the tank should dodge. I dodged this fairly consistently, but according to a member in my FC (we were on mumble together, and he has also downed Titan), I was consistently standing in it.

That's also why sometimes when people get hit by landslide, they actually get knocked off in a completely different direction than where landslide was headed. Or their dead body ends up in a spot other than where they actually got hit by the spell (such as outside of plumes).

Once again, the fight being beatable isn't the problem. The problem is not being able to rely on the on screen indicators. Example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFfu0i89gpI

Yes he hesitated moving out, but he was still out before the animation/cast finished. He shouldn't have been hit.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Then yeah, having a Faster CPU does matter, because a fast CPU Can parse crappy server responses faster than a crappy CPU can do it, thus you get out of stuff they can't.

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Okay let's pretend for one second that your statements about the server only updating your location every 0.3 seconds has to do with your CPU. So, you have an i5, your position is updated every 1.5 seconds. You have an i3, you're being updated once every 0.3 seconds.

Let's just pretend this is how it works.

How is this a smart game design at all?!

Edit: And for someone who plays on both a PS3 and an i7 computer, I can promise you the netcode lag is just as bad on both machines.

I'm not saying that a fast cpu solves the issue of the games design. What I'm saying is most peoples problems with this fight are compounded. It's their CPU/GPU/PS3/ISP + the .3 second delay killing them, not merely the .3 second delay.

As such SE could ammend the games minimum requirements and say it's your equipment, because even with the .3 delay and bad netcode, I don't have issues getting out of things based solely off their visual indicators.

In fact the only way I will get hit is if I wait till less than (.3 + 44ms) seconds before the AOE lands before stepping over the line. And that's assuming that there .3 seconds till my next XYZ check, in reality the xyz check will always be between 0 (happening now) and .3, so theres a 50% chance that there will be < .15 seconds until my next xyz check, meaning I get out of the aoe almost 100% of the time. Now if your pc/ps3 is lagging (bad isp, bad graphics card etc etc) and your already responded 2 seconds late to something to do frame's being skipped etc than you are much more likely to get hit.

My point is that it's not purely the server design, and even if Yoshida had the server code fixed, people with crap pc's and ps3's will still get hit with aoe.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Edit: And for someone who plays on both a PS3 and an i7 computer, I can promise you the netcode lag is just as bad on both machines.

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Well, unless your a software engineer with a bachelor's degree in computer science like myself who custom built their Gaming PC, I can promise you that I don't lag on Titan unless there's a server lag spike that everyone gets, which doesn't always happen when I run titan.

I will agree that there is a small .3 ish lag on moving around, but other than that there is no issue. And my crap runs so well and so smoothly that the .3 doesn't really matter to me, I get out fine. An I'm running windows 8 with the game in windowed mode which means I have to deal with Always On Vertical Sync.

Again I'm not denying for a minute that the server code could get improved, but improved or not, people who's pc's are not optimized and tuned and lag will still get hit. And having an i7 doesn't mean anything really. What I7, it's unlocked (K on the name) with it overclocked to 4.8ghz? Or is it one of the 2011 8 core pos's with 2.3ghz per core. I7 doesn't mean it's better than an I5, etc etc, tons of variables I could write a book on, like games and threading and how games don't use HT so i7's HT functionality is useless.

There are 3 ways a system bottlenecks, CPU, GPU, and HDD. You can have the best CPU in the WHOLE WORLD, and still lag if your GPU is crap. You can have the best GPU and CPU in the whole world and still lag if your hdd is 5400 rpm's on the IDE interface and slow and the game isn't preloading/caching textures. And you can have the best overall PC in the world and still lag if your ISP has ISP Side Packet optimization/buffering/traffic filtering etc, or your on Dial Up, or your on Satellite internet, etc etc.

I have the lag issue and I was reading this thread.

Is it true that the enemy's cast bar is in sync but the animation is out of sync?
So, the problem will be fixed if S-E makes the animation in sync also?
If the cast bar can be in sync, I don't understand why the animation can not be in sync.

I also read that your character's animation is in sync but the cast bar is out of sync. So, when you want to know when you're done casting, you need to check the animation and not the cast bar.

It's kind of like the cast bar is what the server is seeing and the animation is what you (client) are seeing.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Again I'm not denying for a minute that the server code could get improved, but improved or not, people who's pc's are not optimized and tuned and lag will still get hit.

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If anything that makes this even worse. People with low end machines get completely ruined then because it's just one problem on top of another. But honestly I have never seen this issue in other MMOs (didn't play FFXI), and I have played them with some truly abysmal PCs. But now that I have a i7-3770K and I am seeing it all the time in FFXIV, but of course, still not in any other MMO. So from that I think the CPU effect while possible is miniscule compared to the terrible net code.

Yes. For instance on Primals the damage is calculated once the cast bar disappears - you can run right through a boss's animation if the cast bar is complete (@75~85%) and you were out of range of the initial attack. However animations such as player attacks or the floor attack in Amdapor Keep/Stone Vigil do not follow this structure and are based off the animation completion and your character position.

The problem with the game is inconsistency in mechanics, a hard latency of .3s or 300ms on position updates - and myriad of other structural netcode issues. FFXIV expects players to have little to no lag judging from the harshness of certain boss mechanics - but does not provide the necessary back checks, synchronization, or conformity of mechanics to make combat feel seamless and responsive. This is basically a continuation of a thread that persisted from Beta Phase 2 - Open. The only response given then was "wait for us to implement the NA servers" to "wait until we've optimized the servers & instance servers" and now we are still experiencing the same issue.

Will it get fixed? Who knows - they never managed to fix these same issues in FFXI which has been running (over?) a decade now.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Well, unless your a software engineer with a bachelor's degree in computer science like myself who custom built their Gaming PC, I can promise you that I don't lag on Titan unless there's a server lag spike that everyone gets, which doesn't always happen when I run titan.

I will agree that there is a small .3 ish lag on moving around, but other than that there is no issue. And my crap runs so well and so smoothly that the .3 doesn't really matter to me, I get out fine. An I'm running windows 8 with the game in windowed mode which means I have to deal with Always On Vertical Sync.

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Could you run a test please.

Using fraps or something similar get someone to autofollow you.

Swing the camera view around so you are looking behind you at the person autofollowing and start fraps.

Now start running. Keep running for at least 5 seconds. Now stop and wait for the person autofollowing to catch up.

Upload the video of that so we can see how your PC solves the server lag.

It would help if we had proof that it's our PC's and spending money on a new rig can gives us a smooth gameplay experience as you claim.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

But, the fact that you're posting this proves that you have stayed.

Unfortunately, people you have to pay to participate in mmo forums, it's really hard to get a sample of how many people have actually quit over the many issues this game has.

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I haven't subbed (big fan of "voting with your wallet") but I'm still here trying to make my voice heard.

And I'll be here until they fix it or I completely lose my interest in this mess of a game.

Too bad, it could have been a really, really good game.

Uploading a video as you decribed prooves nothing. Latency works in all mmo's like that. Having someone follow me isn't going to appear that they lag behind, e.g. I move 10 feet before they start following me, that happens in WOW too. That's because of the latency between me moving to the server and to them and them moving to the server and to me. That won't demonstrate anything if I frapsed it. That's internet latency 101. Data does not transmit instantly and that's not the games fault.

What I should do is get the same 7 guys I ran titan with last night and record our fight where we had Zero deaths till phase 5, and every death in phase 5 was from Bad Spread on the 6 plumes that come out (positionioning) I should upload 2 videos, 1 of the fight with me narrating it, and 1 with the fight with team speak chat. Not hearing that team speak chat is missing out.

The entire encounter I was calling out every single ability as it was incoming
P1: Landsldie incoming... Ok stomp next
Geocrash stack on tank
P2: Plumes coming spread out from each other as best as possible (cool no one hit), Landslide incoming, Stomp incoming, be ready for plumes next
Geocrash stack on tank
P3: etcetc
p5: Now my tone as increased and I say "Top oFF tank incooming MB, Now medica that stomp, now Run and spread OUT like MAd Shit tons of PLUMES INCOMING"

Me calling it out is what made it really easy.

The main problem with titan HM and BCB is communication. And it's rooted from this,

Square made 1-49 SOOOO EASY, that people go into titan for the first time expecting to face roll it like everything else. Having a fight with complex mechanics where they need, GASP, "Communication", just blows their mind. WHy oh why do we need to do that here when we didn't anywhere else, is something like what they say in the fight.

I can tell you I've raided in Many MMO's, From FFXI, to Vanguard, WOW, and now FFXIV, and I've never been in a raid where we weren't in a voice chat program (like ventrilo) with a raid leader. Our titan run yesterday I was the raid leader, and we 2 shot it.

I can also tell you that there were many mechanics in wow raids that were lag/latency/luck reliant. You would hit it or you'd get screwed from latency or a lag spike, just like Titan HM. Sindragosa's Ice Prison's in heroic mode come immediately to mind, and Grobulose's poison trail comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

And having an i7 doesn't mean anything really. What I7, it's unlocked (K on the name) with it overclocked to 4.8ghz? Or is it one of the 2011 8 core pos's with 2.3ghz per core. I7 doesn't mean it's better than an I5, etc etc, tons of variables I could write a book on, like games and threading and how games don't use HT so i7's HT functionality is useless.

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You said: good computers make the lag less noticeable.

I said: I have a good computer and a PS3 and the netcode lag is the exact same.

What are you even trying to argue here? Certain generation i7s aren't good enough to avoid the netcode lag on ffxiv? Seriously... this isn't a hardware issue this is a netcode issue.

they have mentioned continuously if you track the dev tracker comments n u will see that they have said they know the issues n they can't just fix everything at once like they have a 1,000,000 employees all working on the issues... have patience, get off the computer n check the sunrise... complaint denied

I like defending bad coding and server issues and coming up with excuses just because my favorite company and franchise does it, despite all the evidence proving me wrong.

If your computer is so good, list it's exact specs, your isp, and go to speedtest.net and do a bandwith test to montreal from your location and list your ping.

It's a compounded issue, netcode is an issue, but isn;'t the only issue. And you can deal with it if your rig is up to snuff and your ping is under 100. My ping is 44 from Virginia To Montreal, because I know how to optimize my network stack.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Uploading a video as you decribed prooves nothing.

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... this game is as good as WoW for lag?

You don't seem to understand the point.

If I am out of the AoE indicator before the cast bar finishes and still take the damage a second later that's a problem. Does that happen in WoW?

Have you seen the battle logs that show someone healing themselves for 400 and then dying from 200 points of damage from the mob immediately after? (not exact numbers)

You really want to say that this software is working correctly?

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Originally Posted by Ryios

If your computer is so good, list it's exact specs, your isp, and go to speedtest.net and do a bandwith test to montreal from your location and list your ping.

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It parsed 6800 on extreme settings on the benchmark and the netcode lag is just as bad on my PC as it is on the PS3. The netcode is bad. I don't know why you seem to think you should have to have the best ISP and GPU/CPU on the market to play this game without netcode lag.

And, I live in Canada. I feel bad for people who across the ocean and try to play this game.

I've been reading this thread, and .... I would like to ask, the people who have issues dodging the weight of the lands... Do you guys happen to play wireless? Or are you guys connected? It took me over 20 tries, and a lot of jumping off the side to guys saying they were lagging and couldn't get out the Aoe's, but I was just wondering how many that are having issues are playing on wireless connections? I have 20mb service, and play connected right to the modem. No router or nothing, and usually only got hit by WotL when my controller did a silly auto lock and I moonwalked to my death. LOL