Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

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Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

Just started savage but was curious what my numbers should be Faust and Opressor wise at I192 using the most recent food that gives skill speed crit and vitality can't remember the name of it atm.

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Over 9000!!!!!

Ossom can you repost your opener here?

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Originally Posted by Muppet57

Ossom can you repost your opener here?

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It's in the OP.

Here is Havoc's DPS charts if you have a question on where your DPS falls. I'm not sure if this is updated weekly or what but I'm pretty sure they just look through the forums and pick numbers from peoples clear for the most part.

I know there is another DPS char out there but I'm not sure where it is. So if you around the DPS that is mentioned in this Google Docs for the monks then you are good on DPS.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=312258843

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#
This is the one I'm thinking about using.

Lol sometimes i even wonder if its worth updating the guide. Still see people asking for things already in OP.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#
This is the one I'm thinking about using.

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This one seems to be far more updated, but just a heads up to people who wish to compare to some of these players and who fall short, these players are the creme de la creme so don't be discouraged if you aren't meeting the top rows of numbers. A lot of these players got these numbers on speed kills (4Mins seems to be the record for A1?) Which means they have less down time, they optimize buffs throughout the party etc..

Something to strive for I suppose, pretty sure I'm not reaching 1.3K dps in A1S anytime soon.

Your personal DPS doesn't mean a whole lot in A2 unless you're the SMN. It's not a serious DPS check unless you're speedrunning.

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Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

Just started savage but was curious what my numbers should be Faust and Opressor wise at I192 using the most recent food that gives skill speed crit and vitality can't remember the name of it atm.

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Dummy dps for Faust (No numbers as I don't pay attention to this each week)
900+ A1S
1400+ A2S
1000+ A3S

These are generally numbers you can achieve and should be pulling in your team. These are the lower bands as well and are what's required of you to meet enrage.

I got a question about DPS in general, still new to the dps jobs as i main pld in 2.0. Starting the encounter with as much damage as possible is crucial for high dps? In other words, the most important factor for high dps is the opening rotation? *removing gear level, food&pots* My dps is decent enough to clear both a1s and a2s without meeting enrage. Struggling to crack that 1k parse in a1s however

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

I got a question about DPS in general, still new to the dps jobs as i main pld in 2.0. Starting the encounter with as much damage as possible is crucial for high dps? In other words, the most important factor for high dps is the opening rotation? *removing gear level, food&pots* My dps is decent enough to clear both a1s and a2s without meeting enrage. Struggling to crack that 1k parse in a1s however

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DPS is measured by simply taking your total damage dealt, divided with how many seconds the fight have lasted... So doing high damage at the start of the encounter, doesn't give you more DPS than if you have higher damage in the middle of the fight or something.

You do get the most out of your DPS, if you do the opener right though, and use a pot, because you will have all your CDs up, and can fit the maximum amount of damage you can get into those B4B, IR and pot durations.

It's a tiny part of what gives you high DPS in a whole fight though. Getting high burst damage at the start of the fight is the easiest part by far, and that's why you will see a lot of players that are equal in DPS at the start of the fight (in a relative way with their different level of burst), but then at the end of the fight, you could see a big difference in DPS between the good players and the less good ones.

You can start a fight without using Perfect Balance, and still come out with good DPS if you know what you're doing.

To add on what Craiger has mentioned the reason people open with PB is to get a jump start on the ramp up time. PB isn't really a huge DPS boost when used mid-combat for pure DPS reasons so it has become an opener and recovery utility. As he mentioned it's not mandatory, but you do shave off a few GCD to get back to your full power. Monk DPS is largely about being consistent and not letting yourself get hung up too much on anything. While we have strict buff timers we do not have strict combo requirements. Some general things to keep in mind are to get on the boss as soon as possible, and stay on the boss as long as you can to which allow you get off as many GCDs as is possible in that time frame. Use TK as much as possible if you know you will lose stacks at a mechanic break, use PB as often as possible when you need to recover stacks. I find people frequently forget to utilize some things as often as they can.

In terms of A1S DPS the longer your fight lasts the lower your DPS is going to end up. So people cranking out high numbers are usually finishing the fight before the last jump. If your raid DPS isn't able to accomplish this then your personal DPS will drop as a result. In a fight that's got full or close to full uptime then a monk should have pretty static DPS, but in something like A1S where there's frequent major breaks causing GL loss then time is your enemy because each time this happens after your initial push on the fight it's going to hurt your overall DPS. This is where maximizing PB, TK, and chakra usage is key.

What are you achieving currently in A1S, and are you finishing the fight before the final jump or after? There's some factors here that need to be considered when you compare your personal DPS to some of the really high numbers you will come across.

Highest parse for the encounter was around 950-960 at ilvl196. My static sees 3 jumps, but both opps are below 5% after 3rd jump and before lb3. Party comp has a dragoon. Use pb on opener, and after 1st and 3rd jump. Im parsing around 1050 to 1.1k range before 3rd jump. I just believe that at my gear level i should easily see 1k for an 8min a1s encounter. It must be my opener that needs working on. Cause I can technically do 3 openers, beg of fight, and after 1st and 3rd jump.

I pretty much get around the 950 range as well. I think it's because I use a LB1 at the end to even up the Oppressor's HP.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

snip because there's a 1000 character limit:confused:.

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Im the same ilvl, so im very confident you can crack 1k.

i Assume you know the basics of mnk so i'll share the little things i do to squeeze out extra dmg.

1. Always get your Tornado Kick, elixer field and shoulder tackle off before the jump. EF and ST both have 30 sec cds and the jump is a 30 sec transition so do not hold them. Once you see the royal fount, after all the aoes are all cleared from the arena, you should pop tk, st and ef if available.

2. While youre dodging the resins during jump, make sure you charge your chakras and get into the right stance.

3. if your oppressor needs to be dragged to the other side of the arena start dpsing the oppressor thats nearest and shoulder tackle over to yours when its in place. You want to cut down on downtime as much as possible.

If youre already doing these things then post a video if you can.

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Originally Posted by Scum

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1. Always get your Tornado Kick, elixer field and shoulder tackle off before the jump. EF and ST both have 30 sec cds and the jump is a 30 sec transition so do not hold them. Once you see the royal fount, after all the aoes are all cleared from the arena, you should pop tk, st and ef if available.

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this one isnt entirely true, its better to save both elixir field and howling fist for when the add spawns, then hit both of them with the boss, doubling their effectiveness, it also deals damage to your add that isnt affected by positional, therefore allowing you to use later positional skill on the boss.

EF will be back up by the time the jump is done. Even then, if you get even one more EF from using it the second it's off CD, it wasn't worth saving anyways. Although I'll agree on Howling since the CD is considerably longer.

as thrustie said, EF will will be back up for add and i never mentioned using Howling fist before jump.

Guys just letting you know, i'm currently been driving during a2s so i dont think i can have a dps tips and tricks for this floor. If anyone wants to contribute anything please post here and let me know if your happy to put it in the guide

For A1S, I find there isnt a need to fully be on the add the moment it spawns. EF/HF or even a Steel Peak tab targeted can easily snag the add's aggro.

Unless your designated laser line/missile targeter is right next to the add you spawn, stay on Oppressor to lure the Resin pool so that it doesnt overlap with where you need the add to die. If the laser line is next to your add, burst it down (with i200 wpns and the current eso gear you should already be getting, it shouldn't be an issue).

Basically remain dpsing all the time. The only reason you fall below 1k DPS in A1S at the current moment is because you have too much down time during adds subphase or you died because u derped or the healer derped.


BTW, not sure if this was mentioned before. Did anyone explore using Tornado Kick in the opening rotation right when BFB and Pot buff drops off? There was a previous discussion that using TK when goinginto Coeurl Stance when Demo was recently refreshed in the previous cycle is actually a potency increase.

FML 1028 char

ST - DM - PB - SP - SP - DK - BFB - TW - IR - SP - Pot - ToD - EF - BS - SteelP - TS - HF - DM - FC - DK - TW - Frac - TK - SP - ST

This is my current opener. Well I'm not good with the numbers thing so if someone can help me run my numbers I would like to see how good/bad it fares against Ossom's.

It was tested during 3.0 and exploring new openers. It was a dpS lost. But I'm not sure now, I think it still is but I could be wrong.

I'm only level 54 on monk atm, but loving these new abilities so far. bloody fun lol.
I'll come back here once i hit 60 to take a look at optimal openers etc, so thanks a lot for the information guys.

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

BTW, not sure if this was mentioned before. Did anyone explore using Tornado Kick in the opening rotation right when BFB and Pot buff drops off? There was a previous discussion that using TK when goinginto Coeurl Stance when Demo was recently refreshed in the previous cycle is actually a potency increase.

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I dont see how thats even possible. When TK first came out with the 500 suggested potency, the ideal rotation would be to have demo with full buffs then you go boot/dk --> True/Tws --> TK --> Snap so that when you dropped all your stacks you would immediately go into your rotation with 1 stack, while building your stacks, demo wouldnt be heavily penalized since it was used before TK with GL3. You would get to GL3 in 6 abilities vs 9.

However its 320 now and not 500. You have to basically use TK right after Demo or you will lose the chance to get the b4b/xpot buff.

TK buffed is roughly 586 potency, Im not factoring xpot but I think xpot should be roughly a 9-10% dmg inc(wont make a difference since the difference will be too big to matter). No GL stacks , your next rotation will be boot/true/snap, versus the same rotation with GL3, you lose roughly 228 potency, next rotation will be DK/Tws/Snap with 1 GL stack, versus the same rotation with GL3, youre losing roughly 118 potency. Next rotation will be boot/true/Demo with 2 stacks versus the same with 3 stacks , you will lose roughly 92 for a total of 438 over the whole nine abilities.

Thats 148 potency a fully buffed TK has, HOWEVER, we have yet to factor in a few things, GL3 adds not only damage increase but also speed increase. At arount 600s SS, youre at approximately 2.4 gcd base, at 539(lower spectrum) you're at 2.43, with 1 stack you're at 2.28 and 2.3 respectively, GL2 you're at 2.16 and 2.18 and finally GL3 you're at 2.04 and 2.06.

When you factor that in, you see your first rotation without GL stacks you will take 7.2 and 7.29 to get to your next stack, 14.04 and 14.19 to your 2nd stack, and finally 20.52 and 20.73 to get your 3rd stack, while if you had 3GL stacks it would take you 18.36 and 18.54 to get the same rotation out. Which means you get 1 extra ability in with 3GL stacks over building up your stacks. The next ability on that rotation is dragon kick, just the base potency alone 150 is already bigger than the needed amout to over come TKs difference from what I had listed(148) not to mention the buffs of GL3/fire/dkbuff/twsbuff.

With that being said, we havent even factored in the auto attacks getting the GL3 speed buff AND dmg buff. So yea, I dont see using TK ever outside of breaks in fight or potentially TK+PB(I havent looked into this btw but should be stronger than boot x4 +1 snap or demo) inbetween the fight provided buffs/debuffs are already refreshed.

Edit: You can make an arguement that by using Ossom's rotation you delay a lot of the buffs so you can use TK probably after boot or true and thus making up the 150 potency you would lose from those, but the extra DK buffed ability you get is roughly 250 pot so with the 148, the 250 and the 150 the difference is around 50-90(b4b buff difference on boot/true) I want to say the auto attacks getting GL3 will make that up.

I still have see Ossom's rotation potency, probably do that in a few. Had to do some oncology visits lately so havent been feeling too fresh....

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Originally Posted by Zamii

this one isnt entirely true, its better to save both elixir field and howling fist for when the add spawns, then hit both of them with the boss, doubling their effectiveness, it also deals damage to your add that isnt affected by positional, therefore allowing you to use later positional skill on the boss.

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I would love to do this, but I can't due to my statics strat on handling adds. I'm paired with a smn, and he's very dps greedy. When adds spawn, I pop EF to grab my add while damaging boss, then our smn would bane both adds and boss, so with his op dots, any hits on the add would kill it before I reach laser. So when adds spawn, I hit EF, continue attacking boss, then I proceed to my laser 1-2 gcd after resin drops, by the time I'm at laser, any gcd/ogcd is enough to drop add.

Maybe static strats, and my opener are the reasons. I have a1s on farm, so I know when to pop TK before jump.

Our SMN usually parses around 1150 in a1s at ilvl192, seeing 3 jumps.

AS3 - Protip : During the transition from Man Phase to Hand Phase, you can switch to Courel Forum and Stack up to 4ish Chakra stacks before the boss becomes hittable. Now I am of the mind that taking the next second to get the last Chakra is a DPS plus for the Forbidden Chakra. Not sure if anyone else is doing this but I just started doing it to night and I like it.

Your suspicion is correct: Meditation is a DPS gain to slip somewhere in the rotation if and only if you already had four Chakra stacks (as with any out-of-stance GCDs, this is under the assumption that you don't consequently do something bad to any of your buff/debuff timers). At two Meditations to one Forbidden Chakra, you lose enough GCD time to come out worse than your normal rotation.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

AS3 - Protip : During the transition from Man Phase to Hand Phase, you can switch to Courel Forum and Stack up to 4ish Chakra stacks before the boss becomes hittable. Now I am of the mind that taking the next second to get the last Chakra is a DPS plus for the Forbidden Chakra. Not sure if anyone else is doing this but I just started doing it to night and I like it.

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I dont even bother with Form Shift, I just do 5 chakra charges and there is enough time to maintain GL.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I dont even bother with Form Shift, I just do 5 chakra charges and there is enough time to maintain GL.

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Just finished raid. I'm gonna try this tomorrow.

I've actually have done that stack 4 chakra and just pop FS ones so I can DK with debuff at start

Which opener would you guys use if the boss(think the first and last boss of Neverfun) starts off with an invulnerable mechanic almost immediately? Ossum's opener will not be doable for bosses such as those. I just use the former opener (FS x3, demo(pb), snap(bfb), snap(ir), dk(sp), tw(ef), snap(hf), tod(fc) etc) and everything finishes on time.

I stopped using pb on the first boss of neverreap a long time ago, not because you cant complete the opener, but because of the random spawns of his shadow sometimes costing you gl3 anyway.

Most monks used their normal opener for T6 savage back when (pull -> auto, cleave, Blighted Bouquet) and it didn't hurt 'em, really. The timing of it allowed you to continue. Titan, on the other hand... I'd more often than not hold PB until after Earthen Fury when everyone else is just pushing the phases so quickly.

In dungeons, though, PB on a boss? Hmm, there's a good chance I already used it on the trash.

In the current dungeons if you are speed running, For nevereap, the 1st pull you can activate pb and it will be up by the time you get to the 1st boss. For fractal however, it won't be.

As for bosses, nevereap 1st boss I don't use pb until after the 1st shadow is killed since the boss stays out longer. For fractal 2nd boss, I would do the same and not use pb since he will use swing and knock you back. You can probably argue to take the hit and save ST for it then you can continue your combo.

PS
@Ossom
I thought I added that bit in the guide but it seems I missed it, is there a good timing for when you know the boss will change from human->hand form? Like in normal, he will use his unavoidable aoes (where he punches the floor) the 2nd time before changing forms.

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Originally Posted by monchkinz

In the current dungeons if you are speed running, For nevereap, the 1st pull you can activate pb and it will be up by the time you get to the 1st boss. For fractal however, it won't be.

As for bosses, nevereap 1st boss I don't use pb until after the 1st shadow is killed since the boss stays out longer. For fractal 2nd boss, I would do the same and not use pb since he will use swing and knock you back. You can probably argue to take the hit and save ST for it then you can continue your combo.

PS
@Ossom
I thought I added that bit in the guide but it seems I missed it, is there a good timing for when you know the boss will change from human->hand form? Like in normal, he will use his unavoidable aoes (where he punches the floor) the 2nd time before changing forms.

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After the AoEs, he does a Frontal Swipe, after that he goes into Hand Phase. in AS3 I think its the second set of AoE Slams then Frontal then swap. But not 100% sure.

Cleave -> Protean Wave -> Cleave -> Stomp x 3 -> Cleave -> Sluice -> Stomp x 3 -> Cleave -> Transition

Kk thanks guys. Ill add it to the guide. I am only currently on a2s due to some static problems but hopefully can get there soon.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I dont even bother with Form Shift, I just do 5 chakra charges and there is enough time to maintain GL.

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Same here.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I dont even bother with Form Shift, I just do 5 chakra charges and there is enough time to maintain GL.

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I always reach that phase when in coeurl form (next hit demolish). there's enough time to do 5 meditation before the boss becomes targetable and hit demolish at 2-3s remaining on GL3 (thanks SE for GL duration buff).

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Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro

I dont see how thats even possible. When TK first came out with the 500 suggested potency, the ideal rotation would be to have demo with full buffs then you go boot/dk --> True/Tws --> TK --> Snap so that when you dropped all your stacks you would immediately go into your rotation with 1 stack, while building your stacks, demo wouldnt be heavily penalized since it was used before TK with GL3. You would get to GL3 in 6 abilities vs 9.

However its 320 now and not 500. You have to basically use TK right after Demo or you will lose the chance to get the b4b/xpot buff.

TK buffed is roughly 586 potency, Im not factoring xpot but I think xpot should be roughly a 9-10% dmg inc(wont make a difference since the difference will be too big to matter). No GL stacks , your next rotation will be boot/true/snap, versus the same rotation with GL3, you lose roughly 228 potency, next rotation will be DK/Tws/Snap with 1 GL stack, versus the same rotation with GL3, youre losing roughly 118 potency. Next rotation will be boot/true/Demo with 2 stacks versus the same with 3 stacks , you will lose roughly 92 for a total of 438 over the whole nine abilities.

Thats 148 potency a fully buffed TK has, HOWEVER, we have yet to factor in a few things, GL3 adds not only damage increase but also speed increase. At arount 600s SS, youre at approximately 2.4 gcd base, at 539(lower spectrum) you're at 2.43, with 1 stack you're at 2.28 and 2.3 respectively, GL2 you're at 2.16 and 2.18 and finally GL3 you're at 2.04 and 2.06.

When you factor that in, you see your first rotation without GL stacks you will take 7.2 and 7.29 to get to your next stack, 14.04 and 14.19 to your 2nd stack, and finally 20.52 and 20.73 to get your 3rd stack, while if you had 3GL stacks it would take you 18.36 and 18.54 to get the same rotation out. Which means you get 1 extra ability in with 3GL stacks over building up your stacks. The next ability on that rotation is dragon kick, just the base potency alone 150 is already bigger than the needed amout to over come TKs difference from what I had listed(148) not to mention the buffs of GL3/fire/dkbuff/twsbuff.

With that being said, we havent even factored in the auto attacks getting the GL3 speed buff AND dmg buff. So yea, I dont see using TK ever outside of breaks in fight or potentially TK+PB(I havent looked into this btw but should be stronger than boot x4 +1 snap or demo) inbetween the fight provided buffs/debuffs are already refreshed.

Edit: You can make an arguement that by using Ossom's rotation you delay a lot of the buffs so you can use TK probably after boot or true and thus making up the 150 potency you would lose from those, but the extra DK buffed ability you get is roughly 250 pot so with the 148, the 250 and the 150 the difference is around 50-90(b4b buff difference on boot/true) I want to say the auto attacks getting GL3 will make that up.

I still have see Ossom's rotation potency, probably do that in a few. Had to do some oncology visits lately so havent been feeling too fresh....

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Visit my rotation. TK is used just before BFB & Xpot ends and after Demolish is recently applied. Fits the best use scenario for TK.