Hissatsu: Kaiten

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Just because you can't grasp something, doesn't make it poor design, especially when the entire class's mechanic revolves around it. You honestly come off as someone that would complain that Dark Souls is poorly designed because it's hard, it's kind of sad honestly.

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While I'm not going to lie that i haven't finished any of the souls games. I have still very much loved them even with some fault they got like DS2 hitboxes being a bit messy and that casting in DS3 wasn't tweaked to deal with the faster combat from bloodborne.

And then there is Demon Souls which was a beacon off a game among the disappointingly easy and linear games that were released during that period, and we almost never got it in the west cause of it's poor reviews in japan...

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Ten Chi Jen. That is all.

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Right... Ten Chi Jen, Suiton into cooldowns.

At no point does it feel like the job stutters because of a randomly placed cast-bar.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

But by your complaints with SAM, the NIN mudras literally fall into the same situation. You have to stop attacking and cast your mudras which is effectively the same as a cast bar just you're doing mudra combos instead of looking at a cast bar. If anything, messing up mudras due to random server lag not registering a global is more interruptive than a cast bar.

Both mechanics are fine obviously, but your complaint about SAM cast bars make no sense.

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You can move while casting mudras.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

But by your complaints with SAM, the NIN mudras literally fall into the same situation. You have to stop attacking and cast your mudras which is effectively the same as a cast bar just you're doing mudra combos instead of looking at a cast bar. If anything, messing up mudras due to random server lag not registering a global is more interruptive than a cast bar.

Both mechanics are fine obviously, but your complaint about SAM cast bars make no sense.

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I agree with this sentiment. The cast bar is ludoconceptually very appropriate for SAM, both with the idea of Samurai centering themselves and attacking with a delay, and with the idea of SAM being a successor to the Mystic Knight job.

I can't really comment on mudras because despite being made integral to the job I think they are also the reason why NIN is a horrible expression of the ninja job fantasy. Whatever shadow-assassin-acrobat flavor the job used to or might have had seems to have been abandoned for a lot of Naruto BS and an excess of elemental magic on a *mid-rage melee* job. Inasmuch as I think that SAM is one of the most creative and elegant implementations of a classic job fantasy in XIV, I think NIN is one of, if not the worst (alongside poor schizoid SCH).

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

You can move while casting mudras.

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And? So what?

Also,

Ability: Ten Chi Jin;
Temporarily converts each of the three mudra into a ninjutsu action. Executing one of these actions will convert the remaining mudra into different ninjutsu actions until all three have been executed or the Ten Chi Jin effect expires.
Duration: 6s
Only ninjutsu available while active. The same ninjutsu cannot be executed twice.
Cannot be executed while under the effect of Kassatsu. Effect ends upon moving.

The cast bars are not randomly placed. Nowhere does it "stutters" and you are lovely proof that just because someone is able to level everything to 90 it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I agree with this sentiment. The cast bar is ludoconceptually very appropriate for SAM, both with the idea of Samurai centering themselves and attacking with a delay, and with the idea of SAM being a successor to the Mystic Knight job.

I can't really comment on mudras because despite being made integral to the job I think they are also the reason why NIN is a horrible expression of the ninja job fantasy. Whatever shadow-assassin-acrobat flavor the job used to or might have had seems to have been abandoned for a lot of Naruto BS and an excess of elemental magic on a *mid-rage melee* job. Inasmuch as I think that SAM is one of the most creative and elegant implementations of a classic job fantasy in XIV, I think NIN is one of, if not the worst (alongside poor schizoid SCH).

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Ninjutsu is a core part of the ninja fantasy and the hand signs are based off of real hand signs called kuji kiri. Granted in real ninjutsu the nine syllables are used for meditation, but that is generally where it is derived from. In FFXI ninjutsu was a spell cast, but clearly the FFXIV team took a different approach to go for a more recognizable play design with the mudras.

120sec cooldown too, sam is stuck with the stutter in their core rotation.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

120sec cooldown too, sam is stuck with the stutter in their core rotation.

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*sigh* There is no "stutter", but whatever buddy. I'm done dealing with your stupid takes.

I would much rather they would upgrade some of the skills like Shoha into Shoha II instead of being separate buttons.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Ninjutsu is a core part of the ninja fantasy and the hand signs are based off of real hand signs called kuji kiri. Granted in real ninjutsu the nine syllables are used for meditation, but that is generally where it is derived from. In FFXI ninjutsu was a spell cast, but clearly the FFXIV team took a different approach to go for a more recognizable play design with the mudras.

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Kuji Kiri is fine. The mudras are basically spells, and I don't see why of all the jobs Ninja was the one that needed to carry over XI's "suite of elemental magic spells." Ninjutsu could have been refashioned into literally anything--see SAM's focus on wind/ice or MNK's focus on earth/wind/fire. Personally I think NIN should cut Katon, Raiton, and Dota Mekkyaku (and maybe Doton) and lean into water/ice attacks.

What in the actual. SAM's cast bars being a problem? What.... I...

If you wanted to complain about Ten Chi Jin, I'd be right there with you. I feel like that's messy. But SAM is a melee caster and the wind up cast of Midare feels really good.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Having played all the other melee jobs, yes...

The cast-bar very much destroy the flow of a melee job.

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This kind of mentality is why we can't have nice unique jobs anymore. Sigh..