#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by sharknado

But still no Esuna on Doom :(

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There is several type of Doom and not all of them can be removed with Esuna.

For exemple, on this dungeon there is two type of Doom : one can be removed with Esuna, the other need the target to be healed to full HP.

Esuna isn't really a valid point imo. It's a thing they 'give' healers, but it's hit or miss as to whether it'll even work on a given mechanic. Much like giving interrupts to tanks, but most abilities aren't really interruptable.

It's like handing out guns to an army, knowing full well half their opposition is immune to bullets. Calling it a utility comes with so many caveats that it's hardly worth thinking about.

They were talking about Lapis so there can only be one type of Doom in there: the Esuna-able ones in case somebody steps on bads.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

People are complaining that Party Finder groups can't find healers.

Did the strike actually work?

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No, just turns out the healers really had issues that made them to be played less than required 25% of raiding population.

The point of the strike was to get attention on the problem, so yes it very much worked. People know about the Strike outside of the Forums it left the bubble, it got coverage on youtube and even some gaming press.
Its written on the very first post that the strike doesnt aimes for Gameplay disruption :)

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Originally Posted by Lorika

There is several type of Doom and not all of them can be removed with Esuna.

For exemple, on this dungeon there is two type of Doom : one can be removed with Esuna, the other need the target to be healed to full HP.

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That was Scarecrow Chase with the cross AoEs from portals which is removable and has a long timer.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVIVl9da...pg&name=medium

Time to get some cash healers, what do you think of this price, is that adequate or too low

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVIVl9da...pg&name=medium

Time to get some cash healers, what do you think of this price, is that adequate or too low

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What a scam, healers should do it for 5mil minimum.

The biggest issue i see with Healers is literally the fact you cant really do anything much with it if you are real for a second.

You are split between People which like the 1 or 2 DPS Rotation and People which dont like it, so what will you do? Most People which dont like 1 2 will still play Healer, while people which dont want a complex rotation or anything will probably quit, so it will end in a vacuum where even more healer are missing.

So the best way in my opinion would be not to change ALL healer but maybe the half of it, give ast/sch a more complex rotation and keep sage/whm easier

and i talked to a lot of high end healer and tbh none of them actually wanted to have a complex rotation, they are fine with 1-2 so i really dont know how you would change it to make everyone happy

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

and i talked to a lot of high end healer and tbh none of them actually wanted to have a complex rotation, they are fine with 1-2 so i really dont know how you would change it to make everyone happy

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As stupid as this sounds, there actually are quite a few healers that like to do min. healing required with oGCDs, then chill with 12 and maybe get funny number on certain website. Making healer changes while still retaining them is a big conundrum.

My personal anecdote: asking people with “do you want a complex rotation?” usually ends up with a “No” or “Maybe” because they are given no context of how complex said rotation is—or that the moment they read the word ‘rotation’ their mind immediately go straight to 1-2-3 styled rotation.

Give them a little bit of examples, usually their answer becomes something along the line of: “I don’t want meaningless 1 button rotation.” which only reveals that there is some degree of dissatisfaction from today’s buttons.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

My personal anecdote: asking people with “do you want a complex rotation?” usually ends up with a “No” or “Maybe” because they are given no context of how complex said rotation is—or that the moment they read the word ‘rotation’ their mind immediately go straight to 1-2-3 styled rotation.

Give them a little bit of examples, usually their answer becomes something along the line of: “I don’t want meaningless 1 button rotation.” which only reveals that there is some degree of dissatisfaction from today’s buttons.

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I can really only speak for myself, but the reason I play healer is because I dislike how DPS rotations work in this game. Do the dance, hit the buttons in the same correct order over and over, repeat until the boss is dead. That just doesn't appeal to me, which is why I worry when people say they want healers to have an involved DPS rotation.

When I first started playing in 2.5, I was on the verge of quitting because I hadn't found any DPS job that appealed to me after trying them all. I decided to gave WHM a try and it satisfied what I was looking for. It had an actual toolkit, where the skills had a purpose and could be used in different scenarios. To me, healers should be using their toolkits constantly to mitigate damage, status effects, or shielding and when then they have the opportunity to DPS, it should be considered a bonus. Now a slightly more involved "rotation" would be OK, but once again, we should have better toolkits. For example; maybe if Benison is completely popped, it makes the next Glare an instacast or it gives us another DOT that can be applied in conjunction with Dia, that way we (and the group) are rewarded when we're healing and shielding.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

My personal anecdote: asking people with “do you want a complex rotation?” usually ends up with a “No” or “Maybe” because they are given no context of how complex said rotation is—or that the moment they read the word ‘rotation’ their mind immediately go straight to 1-2-3 styled rotation.

Give them a little bit of examples, usually their answer becomes something along the line of: “I don’t want meaningless 1 button rotation.” which only reveals that there is some degree of dissatisfaction from today’s buttons.

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RDMs basic spells would be really cool to have on a healer.

Maybe add the 3 elements for WHM back and a give him an elemental gauge. Light spells can fill all 3 elements. I though for a while now that Assize would be the perfect skill to deplete such an elemental gauge and add various effects to the party and the enemies regarding on which elements you filled up.

Stone could increase the damage of Assize and give the party a shield. Water increases the healing and the MP recovered. Wind adds a DoT on the enemy... well, it would need some good ideas I think. And the gauge has to cap somewhere so you are actually incentivized to use different spells.

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Originally Posted by Tint

RDMs basic spells would be really cool to have on a healer.

Maybe add the 3 elements for WHM back and a give him an elemental gauge. Light spells can fill all 3 elements. I though for a while now that Assize would be the perfect skill to deplete such an elemental gauge and add various effects to the party and the enemies regarding on which elements you filled up.

Stone could increase the damage of Assize and give the party a shield. Water increases the healing and the MP recovered. Wind adds a DoT on the enemy... well, it would need some good ideas I think. And the gauge has to cap somewhere so you are actually incentivized to use different spells.

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This is a bit too complicated for a healer. Even as simple as glare having chance to proc another skill and a gauge you can spend on another (that holy beam of Alexander would be cool) would be enough.

To me

-DNC level 50 rotation without standard step
-RDM level 50 rotation
-PCT level 60 rotation
-BLM level 50 rotation without hard timers on astral fire
-BRD level 50 rotation

Are all examples of jobs that I would be fine with having as a healer rotation

I don't know what the correct solution to fixing Healers would be entirely... But as they are now, they're so braindead you can take your eyes off completely from the game for a while as the healer as you mash one button and the biggest risk is you running low on MP due to not popping Lucid Dreaming.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I don't know what the correct solution to fixing Healers would be entirely... But as they are now, they're so braindead you can take your eyes off completely from the game for a while as the healer as you mash one button and the biggest risk is you running low on MP due to not popping Lucid Dreaming.

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There's no correct solutions, but healers need something. Make 4 healers play differently would be a start

Really I think WHM should have damage procs, Sage should have builders to use toxicon and either it does more damage with more addersting or it makes the cd of phelma or psyche faster, ast stays the same but the dot accumilates extra damage from buff like wildfire on machinist and scholar just has 2 extra dots and maybe deployment tactics spread dots.

I absolutely love how a trash pull in a Lv.100 "expert" dungeon plays out the same as in Lv.15 Sastasha: Eos can solo heal it. I don't even need to tell her what to do. And I've still only got one button to mash.

:confused::confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

The biggest issue i see with Healers is literally the fact you cant really do anything much with it if you are real for a second.

You are split between People which like the 1 or 2 DPS Rotation and People which dont like it, so what will you do? Most People which dont like 1 2 will still play Healer, while people which dont want a complex rotation or anything will probably quit, so it will end in a vacuum where even more healer are missing.

So the best way in my opinion would be not to change ALL healer but maybe the half of it, give ast/sch a more complex rotation and keep sage/whm easier

and i talked to a lot of high end healer and tbh none of them actually wanted to have a complex rotation, they are fine with 1-2 so i really dont know how you would change it to make everyone happy

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I genuinely don't know what healers you asked. I've been raiding for over half a decade, most of it as healer and have very rarely found a high end healer who was happy about the state of healers past Shb. We need more, no matter how anyone spins it, having the "reward" of good gameplay devolve into a spam of a single button is not good design by any standard and what it makes it worse is that we used to have MUCH more to do.

If people don't want to put the effort to learn a basic rotation of maybe 2-4 dots that can be easily managed with a little of experience, let them spam their 1 button but DO NOT gimp the design to cater for people who don't want to put even a minimal effort. Is like a car, let the people who only want to go at 40 kmh go at that speed but don't cap the speed of anyone else to that when we can go up to 120kmh safely

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I genuinely don't know what healers you asked. I've been raiding for over half a decade, most of it as healer and have very rarely found a high end healer who was happy about the state of healers past Shb.

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Its simple, a lot of them did not play healers before ShB.

Or are universalists and don't care about healer role in particular, there are quite a few people I know that picked the role for the statics.

How much enjoyment they actually get from playing this role? Its not for me to guess, but I haven't seen them complaining, except about the current healer BiS.

I can genuinely say that not a single healer I know cares about this #ffxivhealerstrike. Does not mean much, its just anecdotal evidence, probably related that most people I am acquitted with started raiding past SB.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I genuinely don't know what healers you asked. I've been raiding for over half a decade, most of it as healer and have very rarely found a high end healer who was happy about the state of healers past Shb. We need more, no matter how anyone spins it, having the "reward" of good gameplay devolve into a spam of a single button is not good design by any standard and what it makes it worse is that we used to have MUCH more to do.

If people don't want to put the effort to learn a basic rotation of maybe 2-4 dots that can be easily managed with a little of experience, let them spam their 1 button but DO NOT gimp the design to cater for people who don't want to put even a minimal effort. Is like a car, let the people who only want to go at 40 kmh go at that speed but don't cap the speed of anyone else to that when we can go up to 120kmh safely

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^^^^^^

We need more (and I should say we need back) :
-job identity, as of DT every healer is the same
-gameplay, bring back real AST (a fortune teller job who is 100% deterministic, moronic) & SCH dots
-rotation, the high end optimization being 11111111121111111 can't be good no matter how you spin it

And for people who don't want to improve beyond 11112111111 + occasional ogcds heals, SE should just do the maths so 12& "rotation" is 80% efficiency, and the perfect rotation is 100%.
And before complaining, 121 rotation with 80% efficiency but 90% uptime is already better than the vast majority of modern healers, people should work on ABC instead of wanting the maximum job complexity to be leveled down to their personal "best".

I don't really see why we have to constantly tiptoe around those who enjoy current healers. If they don't like that I want more complexity to return to the healer role? That's too bad, because I hate what they enjoy right now.

We both pay the same sub, their preferences don't get to supercede mine.

Rather than seeing more complex healers I'd rather start with content actually demanding healers heal, then I wouldn't mind having more complexity if it's called for. But I think it more important to address the main problem first and secondary things after.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Rather than seeing more complex healers I'd rather start with content actually demanding healers heal, then I wouldn't mind having more complexity if it's called for. But I think it more important to address the main problem first and secondary things after.

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But we can do both, and we need to.

You do realize that in DF, the overwhelming majority of healers you'll encounter don't GCD uptime (we're talking less than 50% here) nor DoT uptime ? Don't align buffs, don't use ogcds correctly, and so on ?
Why cater to these players ? At this point why not implement changes like :
-every 10th glaroilosis cast applies a dot
-native autocasting damage gcd for healer jobs
Because otherwise maintining uptime is too hard and sooooo stressfull for the poor casuals :'(

if they don't want to improve nor play decently, it's a choice and their problem, it shouldn't be everyone's.

Is there a single issue with having what I suggested above ? , a complex rotation which can be some or all of :
-multiple dots
-various buffs with decision making to do
-damage gcds filling a healing gauge (or vice versa)
And this rotation would be the theorical 100% efficiency of the job, but if you just do 121 you still get around 80% efficiency.
It is an amount that almost no healer in DF meets anyway, because, as said before, by designing healers for the most braindead players, SE effectively made the playerbase of heals mostly braindead & lazy people.

And such changes ar in no way prohibiting changes to encounter design and reducing dps & tanks absurd amounts of self sustain (lmao at thing like earth's riddle or 3rd eye, and don't even start with the tanks).

For starters, what I want to see two things.

1. Healers being absolutely necessary to beat end-game content... Trials and Raids... Normal, Alliance, Extreme, Savage. Healers shouldn't be replaceable.
2. Healers getting buffed to a point where their base damage output is at the same level as Tanks.

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

if they don't want to improve nor play decently, it's a choice and their problem, it shouldn't be everyone's.

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The game doesn't really want people to improve or feel the need to unless they want to clear two specific end-game content modes. On top of that public parsing or performance grading is a big no no in this game. So they would have to say they are changing the game audience, which is less subs, less money. No MMO will do that. They will try to please everyone and tell to go savage and ultimate if someones wants a challenge :D WoW also does this, has multiple difficulty levels and so on to try to please everyone.

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

a complex rotation which can be some or all of :
-multiple dots
-various buffs with decision making to do
-damage gcds filling a healing gauge (or vice versa)
And this rotation would be the theorical 100% efficiency of the job, but if you just do 121 you still get around 80% efficiency.
It is an amount that almost no healer in DF meets anyway, because, as said before, by designing healers for the most braindead players, SE effectively made the playerbase of heals mostly braindead & lazy people.

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In end-game content you would have to manage all of this, raid frames and mechanics at once. Be careful what you wish for. And if healer DPS would get higher then it would be more punishing to heal more so the potency of all of this could be lowered to "balance" :)

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

But we can do both, and we need to.

You do realize that in DF, the overwhelming majority of healers you'll encounter don't GCD uptime (we're talking less than 50% here) nor DoT uptime ? Don't align buffs, don't use ogcds correctly, and so on ?
Why cater to these players ? At this point why not implement changes like :
-every 10th glaroilosis cast applies a dot
-native autocasting damage gcd for healer jobs
Because otherwise maintining uptime is too hard and sooooo stressfull for the poor casuals :'(

if they don't want to improve nor play decently, it's a choice and their problem, it shouldn't be everyone's.

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I agree in so far as there are some terrible healers out there with terrible dps uptime, often terrible healing too, worse is the game does a bad job of teaching healers how/to heal and makes almost no mention I can see of actually pushing dps as a healer. Rather that is player convention and that may or may not be accounted for in higher tiers of content. There should be a requirement for players to have a brain, the game really should teach healers how to play healer and with that to dps, I'm just saying that we should fix healing first and then build any added dps rotation around that scenario.

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Is there a single issue with having what I suggested above ? , a complex rotation which can be some or all of :
-multiple dots
-various buffs with decision making to do
-damage gcds filling a healing gauge (or vice versa)
And this rotation would be the theorical 100% efficiency of the job, but if you just do 121 you still get around 80% efficiency.
It is an amount that almost no healer in DF meets anyway, because, as said before, by designing healers for the most braindead players, SE effectively made the playerbase of heals mostly braindead & lazy people.

And such changes ar in no way prohibiting changes to encounter design and reducing dps & tanks absurd amounts of self sustain (lmao at thing like earth's riddle or 3rd eye, and don't even start with the tanks).

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I don't think there's anything too offensive here, at least to me, I would be concerned about the button count since my bars are kinda full as is but that's another matter. Ultimately pushing more dps is always going to be healer optimisation, for me it's more about getting things to being 60% or more healing uptime with dps filler rather than 90% dps uptime with healing filler. That would make our existing small handful of dps skills a lot more palatable.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I don't really see why we have to constantly tiptoe around those who enjoy current healers. If they don't like that I want more complexity to return to the healer role? That's too bad, because I hate what they enjoy right now.

We both pay the same sub, their preferences don't get to supercede mine.

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I say keep White Mage exactly as it is now so everyone who actually likes healer as it is now can just go there.

They should introduce a new Healer class mid-expansion, one that uses the current Healer design as they fix all the other healers... It can even start at 100 with the requirement of any other Healer at 100 to unlock... See how many people would switch to it.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I don't really see why we have to constantly tiptoe around those who enjoy current healers. If they don't like that I want more complexity to return to the healer role? That's too bad, because I hate what they enjoy right now.

We both pay the same sub, their preferences don't get to supercede mine.

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I mean this largely depends. While inherently their preference may not supersede yours however, if SE desire or goal for the job falls more so inline with those that enjoy current play style then yes one could say their enjoyment and preference does in fact supersede your own. It sucks, but sometimes that is just the way the cards fall.

I do sympathize with you case in point old SMN.

Edit: We are also talking about two sets of players here also. If we really want to fix healers tanks will always have to be adjusted, and if be are being honest most tank players probably do not want to see their role/job nerfed for whatever reason. SE also has a more of a track record listening to overall tank requests not looking at your DRK sorry about you.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

The game doesn't really want people to improve or feel the need to unless they want to clear two specific end-game content modes. On top of that public parsing or performance grading is a big no no in this game. So they would have to say they are changing the game audience, which is less subs, less money. No MMO will do that. They will try to please everyone and tell to go savage and ultimate if someones wants a challenge :D WoW also does this, has multiple difficulty levels and so on to try to please everyone.


In end-game content you would have to manage all of this, raid frames and mechanics at once. Be careful what you wish for. And if healer DPS would get higher then it would be more punishing to heal more so the potency of all of this could be lowered to "balance" :)

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Too much of a black & white reasoning, it is possible to keep such part of the playerbase in the 95% of the game where it's not a problem (MSQ, social, normal content, DoL & DoH, etc.) while having a meaningfull endgame. As it is right now, with 3 fights cleared week 1/2 without healers, it's not (and the tier is really easy compared to the past). It's possible to do both.

Moreover, look at every online game with a developped competitive side who choose to appeal to casuals and oversimplified their game. It's a short term gain but mid term and long term it's a massive loss.
The players keeping a game alive are not the casuals, it's the passionate ones who stay multiple years and spend money. Especially with the subscription system, most casual will play 2-3 months at best and unsub until the next big release.

Oh my god, having something to manage in content, please I'm begging to get back to the feeling of playing AST in savage and ultimate.
And if healing end game content became extremely hard, maybe it would force tanks and melee dps to respect their healers by not permanently greeding for uptime.

The state of the game is already the worst it has ever been (at least that's how I feel), I welcome any change in the right direction, even if not perfect.

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

Moreover, look at every online game with a developped competitive side who choose to appeal to casuals and oversimplified their game. It's a short term gain but mid term and long term it's a massive loss.
The players keeping a game alive are not the casuals, it's the passionate ones who stay multiple years and spend money. Especially with the subscription system, most casual will play 2-3 months at best and unsub until the next big release.

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as much as I hate to disagree... but you are wrong.

you are trying to say, that the high end elite people who blast through content like their house is on fire, and stop playing for months until the next patch/expansion... ARE CASUALS?

thanks for the laugh. thats a good one. not sure what game you have played where that happened, but I would love to know. but I seriously think you have it VERY backwards.

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

And for people who don't want to improve beyond 11112111111 + occasional ogcds heals, SE should just do the maths so 12& "rotation" is 80% efficiency, and the perfect rotation is 100%.
And before complaining, 121 rotation with 80% efficiency but 90% uptime is already better than the vast majority of modern healers, people should work on ABC instead of wanting the maximum job complexity to be leveled down to their personal "best".

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I made a rotation for WHM like a year ago (and rewrote it more recently, but still pre-DT hence it uses EW values), that would allow a player who plays as they currently do (that is, refresh Dia when it falls off, press Glare otherwise) to achieve 98% of the damage potential of someone doing the 'full rotation' I had created. In fact, all of the healers I redid, if you ignored the 'new damage button', would lose like, a single filler spell cast (Broil/Malefic etc) or less, per MINUTE. Still got complaints from certain individuals (if you know you know) that 'casuals would be causing enrages because they can't do the full optimal rotation'. I think that for some players, the idea of change itself is more scary than the actual proposed changes, and I fully expect that, were we in a different MMO with a PTR, the changes I would propose (if I were at a pitch to SE) would be accepted pretty well (if anything, I'd expect some 'is that all???' from some players rather than 'this is too much')

Like, as an example, if I reduce 'what I would do to WHM' to the smallest possible changes with the largest possible impact, it'd be 'Reduce Dia to 12s duration, rescale potency. Add new action Water (later Banish) with 15s CD, dealing 40p more than Stone/Glare.' And that's literally it. The funny thing is, since we have so little already, we don't actually need much changes to have a big impact on the 'feeling' of playing the job. And with this, ignoring the Banish button entirely would lose the player 160p per minute, which is now less than half of a Glare. In fact, with the way I had set the potencies up, IIRC the only way that the proposed rotation would be 'more punishing to a casual' than the EW rotation (was current at the time) was if you played the exact EW rotation (that is, you use exactly two Dia casts per minute, no more no less)

But then, by doing tiny changes like that, we can then build off of that with 'phase 2' and phase 3' as optional additions (eg SE could agree that P2 sounds good, but P3 goes too far). So for WHM again, P2 would be to add a new gauge that goes from 0-100, called Nature's Vigilance. Casting spells would fill it (eg Stone is 1pt, Aero is 5 over its 12s duration, Water is 5, and the healing spells range from 5-20). IIRC, full dummy uptime would give about 55-60pts per minute. 50 Vigilance would then be spent on a new AOE healing action, Blessing of the Elementals. A 'healer Fell Cleave' of sorts. Using this action would then give you 3 Petals on the gauge corresponding to Earth, Wind and Water. These petals would then convert Stone/Glare, Aero/Dia and Water/Banish into their ultimate elemental spells of Quake, Tornado and Flood (to mirror how BLM gets Flare/Freeze). These 3 spells would make BOTE damage neutral, and would provide optimizers something more to optimize (trying to get them all, plus Misery, into raidbuffs). Also, by making Quake, Flood, Tornado AOE (with 50% damage falloff), we take our AOE rotation of 1 button (Holy) to (optionally) FIVE (Holy, BOTE, Quake, Flood, Tornado)

Phase 3 would be 'add a Lily spender that applies barriers to party'. I would bring back Stoneskin at 30, move the Lily system to be learned at 30, and bring back 'Graniteskin' as the AOE version. Then at 76ish (where we currently learn Rapture), upgrade them to 'Afflatus Bastion' and 'Afflatus Sanctuary'. By having a shielding Lily spender, we can change the stupid 'overheal to prep Misery' into 'apply a barrier to prep Misery, which has a 30s duration so you might be able to get some use out of it at some point in its duration'. And it opens up potential for healers to save GCDs, because the WHM's shields would be damage neutral (but weaker than SCH/SGE of course).

But maybe SE sees all this, and goes 'OK this all sounds cool, but we want WHM to be the 'pure healer' so we don't think it should have access to barriers like that'. OK, cool, sure, then we ignore Phase 3, and just implement Phase 1 and 2! There's still enough meat on the bone with those changes, I think, to bring some fun back to the job. Trying to set up your healing rotation such that your POM window is Misery, Quake, Flood, Tornado, 3xGlare4, would be enough to make the job interesting in all content I think.

Eukrasian Dyskrasia was the perfect opportunity to put all of this to the test. A 40p gain, over the course of 30 seconds, would be an incredibly small DPS gain, nobody would cause enrages because of ignoring it. But SE took it away, because I guess they think we're too irresponsible to 'ignore' it and would bully people for not using it with 100% efficiency? I guess??? IDK what their logic was but I don't expect it to track. If they don't want people to bully other people for suboptimal gameplay, we have the TOS protecting those who would be bullied

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Rather than seeing more complex healers I'd rather start with content actually demanding healers heal, then I wouldn't mind having more complexity if it's called for. But I think it more important to address the main problem first and secondary things after.

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Making healers heal is an idealistic goal, but one that will take a lot of time. Time that the dev team simply doesn't have to spare. I ask primarily for 'more complexity to DPS rotation' not just because I think it'd help address the issues, but because it's so much quicker to implement. The dev team needs to score a 'win' now, and make tangible steps towards showing 'we are working on it', whereas with 'more healing' it'd take a lot longer and all we'd get is a hazy Lodestone post saying 'Please look forward to it'. So if the devs actually improved the DPS rotation (and ideally, had some more interactions between damage and healing to optimize), they'd get some goodwill from the disgruntled veterans, and buy themselves some more time for a more indepth overhaul of the role. Additionally, the small changes to the damage rotation might be enough to convince some veterans that 'hey, I guess they are working on it finally, I'll give it a chance (to show their metrics that I think this is the correct direction)'

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

as much as I hate to disagree... but you are wrong.

you are trying to say, that the high end elite people who blast through content like their house is on fire, and stop playing for months until the next patch/expansion... ARE CASUALS?

thanks for the laugh. thats a good one. not sure what game you have played where that happened, but I would love to know. but I seriously think you have it VERY backwards.

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Passionate =/= hardcore gamers, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
I was talking about the more average person, not hardcore but not a total casual, someone who has played for a few expac, done some EXs, have a FC estate, maybe a personal one, etc.
They are getting bored too of the oversimplification.

Happy to make you laugh <3, it's good for the general health.

For anyone keeping track we've hit over 1,000,000 views now for this thread. Like holy moly.

I really hope we get something, anything, in terms of recognition out of this from SE. Even if it doesn't come until the next expansion. Something's gotta give.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I don't really see why we have to constantly tiptoe around those who enjoy current healers. If they don't like that I want more complexity to return to the healer role? That's too bad, because I hate what they enjoy right now.

We both pay the same sub, their preferences don't get to supercede mine.

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I mean yeah fair enough.
If CBU3 actually cared though they would compromise by making 2 healers brain dead and 2 healers fun for old players.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

[...]In end-game content you would have to manage all of this, raid frames and mechanics at once. Be careful what you wish for. And if healer DPS would get higher then it would be more punishing to heal more so the potency of all of this could be lowered to "balance" :)

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I'm not sure why having to manage all of that in 'end-game contents' is even a bad idea. Players are supposed to have SOME degree of competency in that level - that's to be expected. If they can't meet that expectation, then they should go back and try again after improving.

Furthermore, varied damage options would definitely lower the output of some healers who're used to 1 2 1 1 1. That's to be expected. But that's also SE job to decide how far low: will they do 70% out of full potential for keeping 1 button spam? Or will be 50%? 30%? 85%? Personally to me, I'll take any. Even reducing Dia DoT to 18s like old Aero II would've been a boon for such a 'simple change'. (just one from many low bar examples)

Why are people so obsessed with wanting to baby roles in savage of all things

“Oh nyooo we can’t have the autos actually do more than the tanks inbuilt healing”
“Oh nyooo we can’t expect healers to actually heal”
“Oh nyooo we can’t expect healers to have an actual rotation”

Like what’s the point of savage if you are aren’t actually testing people. And let’s not pretend like the current design is inflating PF numbers which is a good thing, even JP can’t recruit healers at the moment despite them apparently liking healers being the designated fall asleep role

The current system isn’t working and the massive healer shortage on an easier than average to heal tier is proof of that, people simply do not want to play healers

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

I mean yeah fair enough.
If CBU3 actually cared though they would compromise by making 2 healers brain dead and 2 healers fun for old players.

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If CBU3 cared (and had the design chops) they would compromise by making all four healers fun for old players, while also balancing the potencies in such a way that you can also play all four of them 'braindead' style

AKA, the same way we can play DPS or Tanks currently (eg you could clear a EX roulette by just spamming Overpower as WAR, but that doesn't stop the players who want to Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos from doing so)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The current system isn’t working and the massive healer shortage on an easier than average to heal tier is proof of that, people simply do not want to play healers

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GNB was designed to be 'a tank that plays like a melee DPS' and it was quite successful. I don't really get why SE didn't make SGE be 'a healer that plays like a DPS' (albeit a simpler one) if they wanted to appeal to DPS players