#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

The funny thing is healers in PvP are pretty fun.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

The funny thing is healers in PvP are pretty fun.

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I’d punch a Moogle in the face for the PvP version of Adloquium/Biolysis/Deployment to get ported into PvE

There's a reason why some folks had been wanting to get whoever designs the PvP healer into PvE space - or at the very least bring that "Balance all job reasonably to not break the game"-mindset over instead of adopting the current one that is "Let's achieve that perfect balance."

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

As far as what I've been told Addersting's not allowed to be higher potency because players'll then have to stock up on them for raid buffs, which will make the job "too busy".
I think that'd add a nice layer of complexity for the job but having to manage resources for dps is not something a healer should be doing apparently.

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Oh how I wish we could just axe raid buffs entirely and then allow the jobs to have more interesting designs instead

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Oh how I wish we could just axe raid buffs entirely and then allow the jobs to have more interesting designs instead

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I think axing raid buffs in the current design of the game would do more harm than good.

Tanks already completely ignore healers, if there's no raid buffs, the DPS can ignore the party too. Who cares if that DRG dies? He doesn't have Litany anymore, there's no need to realign.

It would turn the game even more into a solo experience with other people. You'd end up just playing near other players, not playing with them.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I think axing raid buffs in the current design of the game would do more harm than good.

Tanks already completely ignore healers, if there's no raid buffs, the DPS can ignore the party too. Who cares if that DRG dies? He doesn't have Litany anymore, there's no need to realign.

It would turn the game even more into a solo experience with other people. You'd end up just playing near other players, not playing with them.

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I mean, that’s already the case as it is now. Buffs naturally align at the two minute mark so you just do your rotation and it’s fine. Long gone are the days of buffs having unusual cooldowns of timers.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

As far as what I've been told Addersting's not allowed to be higher potency because players'll then have to stock up on them for raid buffs, which will make the job "too busy".
I think that'd add a nice layer of complexity for the job but having to manage resources for dps is not something a healer should be doing apparently.

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By players you mean JP.
They don't want anything like a DPS system for healers in this game at least those who talk on the forum. Even for the healer who is meant to be the DPS healer a system like this can't exist, CBU3 are catering to the people who are killing the role.

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Originally Posted by Retsu90

How would that make any sense, when my point was that the jobs are generally balanced well?

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In fact, every patch we have an update on this job, on that one.
Clearly well balanced indeed

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

By players you mean JP.
They don't want anything like a DPS system for healers in this game at least those who talk on the forum. Even for the healer who is meant to be the DPS healer a system like this can't exist, CBU3 are catering to the people who are killing the role.

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I happen to see posts on those boards lately about people having to leave to other jobs/roles since all the simplifications they've been making have made them no longer enjoyable, so I kind of think it tends to be the folks who frequent the forum and not even JP as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

By players you mean JP.
They don't want anything like a DPS system for healers in this game at least those who talk on the forum. Even for the healer who is meant to be the DPS healer a system like this can't exist, CBU3 are catering to the people who are killing the role.

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Healer never had DPS system to begin with.
WHM had Aqua, true, but it was a low damage skill with a slow on it.
Scholar was sharing quite a Number of DoT with the Old SMN.... it's true, but that's all.

Except for that, what we really lost was support (my Stone Skin :( )

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Healer never had DPS system to begin with.
WHM had Aqua, true, but it was a low damage skill with a slow on it.
Scholar was sharing quite a Number of DoT with the Old SMN.... it's true, but that's all.

Except for that, what we really lost was support (my Stone Skin :( )

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Fluid Aura had the same potency as Stone 2 at the time, on a 20s CD and had a Knockback effect. Also Aero 1 and 2 were also separate buttons that stacked. HW removed the damage from Fluid Aura but we got Assize to replace it and Aero 3 was added as well.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Fluid Aura had the same potency as Stone 2 at the time, on a 20s CD and had a Knockback effect. Also Aero 1 and 2 were also separate buttons that stacked. HW removed the damage from Fluid Aura but we got Assize to replace it and Aero 3 was added as well.

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I really have the impression we had far less.... Memory is not was it used to be XD

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Fluid Aura had the same potency as Stone 2 at the time, on a 20s CD and had a Knockback effect. Also Aero 1 and 2 were also separate buttons that stacked. HW removed the damage from Fluid Aura but we got Assize to replace it and Aero 3 was added as well.

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Minor correction: it was SB that removed the damage effect of Fluid Aura. We still had the 150 potency in HW.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Minor correction: it was SB that removed the damage effect of Fluid Aura. We still had the 150 potency in HW.

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Just makes it worse then cause that would mean we had 3 DoTs, 2 oGCDs attacks, Stone 1 for heavy and Stone 3 for filler in our Prime. Aero 1 might not have been worth maintaining by HW due to the low potency but it was still useful for weave/movement tech and that's before considering Cleric Stance and PoM

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b11308c20b8a1&

From a discord. Really puts into perspective how much we've lost over the years

And as SCH you got Ruin II, Broil, Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II for aoe, Energy Drain, Bane for aoe dots and defensive debuffs, and Aero from cross class if you wanted to be spicy (but was not always optimal)

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Healer never had DPS system to begin with.
WHM had Aqua, true, but it was a low damage skill with a slow on it.
Scholar was sharing quite a Number of DoT with the Old SMN.... it's true, but that's all.

Except for that, what we really lost was support (my Stone Skin :( )

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Fluid aura also had a bind at the end of the knockback at some point, but I did previously play way back during ARR.
But it was a unique and interesting way to mitigate damage, by knocking away a melee enemy temporarily.

AST only had Malefic II, Combust, Combust II, Gravity for Aoe, and Stella for applying heavy (nearly worthless sadly). But, they had a very in depth card system in HW still.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Fluid aura also had a bind at the end of the knockback at some point, but I did previously play way back during ARR.
But it was a unique and interesting way to mitigate damage, by knocking away a melee enemy temporarily.

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I loved doing that in Haukke Manor when new tanks pulled a bit too spicy. I could follow up with a Repose to really take a mob out of the fight.

From what I've read Aero 3 was a 2.5s cast so it wasn't useful for mobility.
E. Dyskrasia would've been great for that purpose had it been stackable and same potency as Dosis but we didn't even get that.

Fluid Aura became a Bind in ShB and was finally deleted in EW, with nothing replacing it at that level. I wish they just turned it into an instant cast water spell instead.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b11308c20b8a1&

From a discord. Really puts into perspective how much we've lost over the years

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Thank you for posting <3

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

From what I've read Aero 3 was a 2.5s cast so it wasn't useful for mobility.
E. Dyskrasia would've been great for that purpose had it been stackable and same potency as Dosis but we didn't even get that.

Fluid Aura became a Bind in ShB and was finally deleted in EW, with nothing replacing it at that level. I wish they just turned it into an instant cast water spell instead.

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I think the funniest thing about Aero3 was that it provided a completely unexpected QOL: If you pulled a pack in a dungeon, and did Holy, Aero 3, Holy Holy etc, you would allow the first Holy's Stun to fully expire. Now, unless you have Misery prepared from a previous boss, you can't do that, and have to clip the first Holy's Stun by 1.5s, which feels wasteful

I think having Fluid Aura back as a GCD Water spell with no cast time (upgrading to Banish when we get to Glare levels) would be pretty a obvious way to add some variety to the job's rotation. Also, it being instant would allow for more mobility options for the job, which helps to keep it more 'casual friendly'

Sorry I know this is besides the point but do they really have to turn them all into light spells though...

I really miss not being just lights and transparent flowers

I mean, Roe did take that into account with her other WHM suggestion thread. I believe a 1 minute healing cooldown that resembles Assize gets used to change the Glare, Dia and Banish buttons for a more powerful elemental attack once each. I believe they are Earthquake, Tornado and Tidal Wave respectively for the same order.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b11308c20b8a1&

From a discord. Really puts into perspective how much we've lost over the years

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This is absolutely damning really. How can this be considered successful game design? A game's development is supposed to make things better and more engaging, that's just an absolute lobotomy job.

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Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

This is absolutely damning really. How can this be considered successful game design? A game's development is supposed to make things better and more engaging, that's just an absolute lobotomy job.

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No, it's simply making a Healer primarily about healing (what a concept!). If I want the complicated DPS rotation shown in the upper half of that graphic, I'll...you know...play a DPS. Me personally? I don't want the top part of the graphic when I heal. I'd argue the real issue is a mix of not enough incoming damage and too much self-sustain on other classes making the healing itself less interesting.

To me, you know what's absolutely damning? Telling healers they need to learn full DPS rotations to be successful. How can [i]that[i] be considered successful game design? There's already a role called DPS for people who want to focus on managing that. Healers focus on managing healing; their DPS is meant to be a simple filler. (It's also been that way throughout the entirety of the FF franchise, where healer roles - usually WHM - have at most 1 or 2 spells that actually do damage.)

(Of course, what's missing in the bottom part of the graphic is precisely the plethora of healing spells that are frequently used by typical players doing group content in typical groups. If the graphic didn't show only DPS spells, but showed all casts by a typical healer in typical group content, well...it would destroy the image here that intentionally misleads the viewer by omitting critical info.)

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Originally Posted by Striker44

No, it's simply making a Healer primarily about healing (what a concept!). If I want the complicated DPS rotation shown in the upper half of that graphic, I'll...you know...play a DPS. Me personally? I don't want the top part of the graphic when I heal. I'd argue the real issue is a mix of not enough incoming damage and too much self-sustain on other classes making the healing itself less interesting.

To me, you know what's absolutely damning? Telling healers they need to learn full DPS rotations to be successful. How can [i]that[i] be considered successful game design? There's already a role called DPS for people who want to focus on managing that. Healers focus on managing healing; their DPS is meant to be a simple filler. (It's also been that way throughout the entirety of the FF franchise, where healer roles - usually WHM - have at most 1 or 2 spells that actually do damage.)

(Of course, what's missing in the bottom part of the graphic is precisely the plethora of healing spells that are frequently used by typical players doing group content in typical groups. If the graphic didn't show only DPS spells, but showed all casts by a typical healer in typical group content, well...it would destroy the image here that intentionally misleads the viewer by omitting critical info.)

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thats all fine and well, and I agree. if I wanted to dps I would play a dps.

so... if my two buttons are meant as "filler"..... why is my filler taking up 90% of my time playing?

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Originally Posted by Striker44

No, it's simply making a Healer primarily about healing (what a concept!). If I want the complicated DPS rotation shown in the upper half of that graphic, I'll...you know...play a DPS. Me personally? I don't want the top part of the graphic when I heal. I'd argue the real issue is a mix of not enough incoming damage and too much self-sustain on other classes making the healing itself less interesting.

To me, you know what's absolutely damning? Telling healers they need to learn full DPS rotations to be successful. How can [i]that[i] be considered successful game design? There's already a role called DPS for people who want to focus on managing that. Healers focus on managing healing; their DPS is meant to be a simple filler. (It's also been that way throughout the entirety of the FF franchise, where healer roles - usually WHM - have at most 1 or 2 spells that actually do damage.)

(Of course, what's missing in the bottom part of the graphic is precisely the plethora of healing spells that are frequently used by typical players doing group content in typical groups. If the graphic didn't show only DPS spells, but showed all casts by a typical healer in typical group content, well...it would destroy the image here that intentionally misleads the viewer by omitting critical info.)

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We went from no skill taking up more than 20% of our total actions to broil taking up over 70%

We didn’t substitute the DPS rotation for a plethora of healing skills, we heal less than we used to and our filler rotation is beige garbage. How long are people going to push this. Our button inputs aren’t even remotely balanced with the old design just because we got more oGCD heals because we never need to press this

And also if you don’t want to learn a rotation to play a healer why no leverage that same argument against tanks. Why am I not allowed to sit there and spam flash, my job is holding agro not doing damage

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Originally Posted by Striker44

No, it's simply making a Healer primarily about healing (what a concept!). If I want the complicated DPS rotation shown in the upper half of that graphic, I'll...you know...play a DPS. Me personally? I don't want the top part of the graphic when I heal. I'd argue the real issue is a mix of not enough incoming damage and too much self-sustain on other classes making the healing itself less interesting.

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Tools that go completely wasted in most content. Even in savage. I don't need the kit I have.

Please apply this logic to tanks. They should focus on tanking. Remove their entire dps rotation for a filler and dot. Then give them 20 buttons of mitigation that do the same thing. Now don't actually change content to warrant needing those buttons.
Finally, make it so the healers and dps do all the mit for you.

would be consequent.
Healer needs to heal.
Damage Dealer needs to deal damage
and Tanks just needs to tank.
No need for all the attack buttons :p

I want my dps filler to be filler, I want doing dps to be a reward for being good at healing, but in order for that to be a thing I have to do healing that isn't a complete waste of time and resources. I just did a run of the level 95 dungeon and the WAR did more healing than I did, it's actually at the point where I might pre-empt damage but after it goes out I look to the WAR to heal before I do, how can anyone think this is good design?

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

I want my dps filler to be filler, I want doing dps to be a reward for being good at healing, but in order for that to be a thing I have to do healing that isn't a complete waste of time and resources. I just did a run of the level 95 dungeon and the WAR did more healing than I did, it's actually at the point where I might pre-empt damage but after it goes out I look to the WAR to heal before I do, how can anyone think this is good design?

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I would really love to be able to like this more than once.... stupid forums

we all know almost all classes have a design problem in one way or the other and in general with over simplification and homogenisation.
In case of Healer we face the problem that we are a Role that doesnt have a lot DPS options as our task isnt to do damage much damage which inutself Solo openworld play aside would be fine.
BUT we are a Role that gets mostly active when mistakes and error happen while the game gets design with a utter fear of fail points, expressed by overly strong tanks and more accesible heals on non-healers. This is a problem in design.

I wouldnt even say we need more Damage abilties BUT we need something else than just spamming the Attack button.
Logicaly would be something like keeping up meaningfull buffs and other utility mechanics. But the utter streamlining made most forms of abilties that dont directly do damage, reduce damage or revert damage or buff damage non existent.

Astrologian could have proper 6 different cards with 6 different buff/effects, i know a novel concept.
White Mage could maybe place more Elemental Liturgies with different effects.
Scholar - is a war strategist so maybe they could have a ability shares buffs from allies wich synergizes with other supporter. And other idea would be more placeable minigation and utility fields. When Picto can have buff fields then so can the Healers.
Sage is suppose to be the offensive Healer so grant them there DoT gameplay that also stacks.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Tools that go completely wasted in most content. Even in savage. I don't need the kit I have.

Please apply this logic to tanks. They should focus on tanking. Remove their entire dps rotation for a filler and dot. Then give them 20 buttons of mitigation that do the same thing. Now don't actually change content to warrant needing those buttons.
Finally, make it so the healers and dps do all the mit for you.

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Remember, healers who legitimately think like that person want the entire skill ceiling crushed downwards so you don't even have the option of having to "focus healing". Notice how they cite things that are nebulous and don't matter in the context of how XIV is actually played? No, just "healers are supposed to heal" and " if I want to DPS, I would play DPS." These strawmen have been knocked down since Heavensward, and if you looked at....most other games that has a healer role in and out of this genre, they are in fact, allowed to have some kind of engaging non-healer gameplay.

A literal zero sum game. Cannot believe there is a functional human being walking the earth who is essentially saying "What if I need to spam Succor on the world's most recent raidwide + tankbuster" in the first twenty seconds of the fight. Or be absolutely BELABORED by having to apply, not even manage, more than a single DoT over just being a filler spam bot. At least actual bots don't peddle nonsense.

Don't look at the GNB/old DRK openers! Might be forced to realize the cognitive dissonance of the NON-DPS JOBS having some of the HIGHEST openers in the game of pure damage output and APM when you focus on ROLES and not HOW SOMETHING ACTUALLY PLAYS.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

To me, you know what's absolutely damning? Telling healers they need to learn full DPS rotations to be successful.

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Well, you should be pleased to know that's a beautiful strawman argument. I've yet to see anyone who actually understands FFXIV's encounters and job design say that healers need to or ought to learn "a full DPS rotation."

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It's also been that way throughout the entirety of the FF franchise, where healer roles - usually WHM - have at most 1 or 2 spells that actually do damage.

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The OG FF1 White Mage/Wizard could wield hammers, daggers, and the strongest sword in the game. They had access to Harm 1-4, Dia 1-4, and Holy. Which is to say nothing of the fact that FFXIV's own lore puts White Mages in a position of contributing to a bona fide calamity. Or the fact that FFIV's Rosa had Aim, a unique damage skill. Or the fact that FFX's Yuna was a summoner.

Valid points. Rosa was a hybrid, as were many others. Though I know not the point I suddenly miss ninja's having throw abilities.

I think they struggle to figure out identities for classes that won't lead to massive upkeep increases on how much thought needs to be put into balancing.

Garnet and Eiko ,both FF9 Characters, were also a mix of Summoner and White Mage.

We could even go as far as mentioning Selphie from FF8 and Aerith from FF7. Their limit breaks were more so for healing, but the materia / junction systems allowed them to cast Black Magic or even Ultima if they really wanted to.

FF6 pretty much had Terra and Celes as the natural magic users without learning from Espers and they even had fire, ice, Ultima and Meteor. Strago could count too as a "healer" using Blue Magic (Lore) and having Grand Delta (Train).

Healers in FF's history have basically always been Hybrids, because they needed something else than just Cure and Heal spells.

And in cases like the Tactics games and FF 5, you made your own hybrid class by giving some other class White Magic, or a White Mage some other skill set.

I think I might go back on strike after the terrible dungeons runs I have had as a healer
3rd time this week I have had a Paladin as my tank and each time they use Requiescat to heal themselves instead of doing damage. Yes I am healing them but they feel the need to keep themself above 90% hp apparently.
So from now on any Paladin Using Requiescat to clemency or just use clemency in general. you can die for all I care, I will do the damage.
Healers should get damage if tanks are just going to do the job anyways. Fuck tanks