Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

Sniping sounds like a good way to get carried through the content, no? Zero effort, no responsibilities, free mount?

I think this entire thread has proven that it is the design of this content that is the main problem, which in turn pits player bases against one another. I can't fault the folks who want harder to content and their frustrations, but I also can't fault the casuals (like me) who are upset as well.

It's like the FFXIV dev team likes to pit us against one another and I hate that. Yes, i've got my qualms with the hardcore raider base. As a 12+ year vet and filthy casual, I do feel left behind in content at times. But I also don't want to hate these folks. They are my fellow players, who simply have different needs and desires content-wise.

Yoshi P. and team have to figure this out (spoiler alert- they won't). But they created an entire field operations zone that is casual and for some reason put an inaccessible, savage level raid as part of the story at the end...and then wonder why folks have issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I think this entire thread has proven that it is the design of this content that is the main problem, which in turn pits player bases against one another. I can't fault the folks who want harder to content and their frustrations, but I also can't fault the casuals (like me) who are upset as well.

---

Basically this.

I'm also a vet, played almost 11 years by now. I'd describe myself as a casual, which doesn't mean I never dipped my feet into raiding or hard content. I raided a bit during ARR and a bit more during Heavensward (Alexander Gordias Savage, ha ha...ha...).
I just...didn't want to anymore after a while. It wasn't as fun anymore.
Apparently, this decision makes me a 'pleb' and a 'leech' in the eyes of some raiders.
There were always some bad apples in the raiding scene, but I also know many many very nice raiders who are helpful and good-hearted people.

Over time the player base changed. Not to the better, unfortunately. I blame a big chunk of this change on the devs.
The 'rivalry' of casuals and raiders gets more and more hearted up when they throw bread and cake towards one of the groups and the other group only gets leftover crumbs.
They need to change this. They need to make helping other players rewarding, instead of punishing.

I know, finding the right balance might not be easy. And maybe it is just massive copium, but...I just hope they will slowly manage to find a solution to stop all this infighting.
So both casuals and raiders can peacefully co-exist again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I think this entire thread has proven that it is the design of this content that is the main problem, which in turn pits player bases against one another. I can't fault the folks who want harder to content and their frustrations, but I also can't fault the casuals (like me) who are upset as well.

It's like the FFXIV dev team likes to pit us against one another and I hate that. Yes, i've got my qualms with the hardcore raider base. As a 12+ year vet and filthy casual, I do feel left behind in content at times. But I also don't want to hate these folks. They are my fellow players, who simply have different needs and desires content-wise.

Yoshi P. and team have to figure this out (spoiler alert- they won't). But they created an entire field operations zone that is casual and for some reason put an inaccessible, savage level raid as part of the story at the end...and then wonder why folks have issues.

---

The way content is designed doesn't inherently make people selfish, discourteous and antisocial. That's actually a decision made by an individual player. There is no material ingame benefit to sniping unless you get some sort of satisfaction from irritating other people (or specifically Rinon in OP's case) without any tangible consequences to your account.

The FFXIV developers are not pitting me against selfish, antisocial people. I resolutely stand against that sort of behaviour, regardless of how the content is designed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neclord

The way content is designed doesn't inherently make people selfish, discourteous and antisocial. That's actually a decision made by an individual player. There is no material ingame benefit to sniping unless you get some sort of satisfaction from irritating other people (or specifically Rinon in OP's case) without any tangible consequences to your account.

The FFXIV developers are not pitting me against selfish, antisocial people. I resolutely stand against that sort of behaviour, regardless of how the content is designed.

---

Way to the miss the point of what I was saying or acknowledging. Here, I am trying to offer up some context and you want to get downright NASTY and come for me. I ain't the one sweetie. So, maybe back off and take a chill pill, some medication or maybe see a priest.

Yoshi P. should revoke any clears, take all rewards gotten from the place, no matter the screaming and kicking and re-making it in the sense it was meant to be, there is too much toxic stuff about this, and the content is not made with any players in consideration at all, be it Ultimate only people or the casual raid person that is happy to do weekly story mode content.

That is pretty much how to sum it all up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Way to the miss the point of what I was saying or acknowledging. Here, I am trying to offer up some context and you want to get downright NASTY and come for me. I ain't the one sweetie. So, maybe back off and take a chill pill, some medication or maybe see a priest.

---

You're in a thread where the OP and their accomplice have demonstrably been proven to be deliberately targeting a specific organised Forked Tower group to snipe them - we have a VOD where they are audibly gleeful as they are engaging in the act of sniping, and your conclusion is that the content is the main issue here. I'm sorry, but it's just a crock of nonsense. I'll take advice about whether my opinions on this thread warrant spiritual or medical guidance from someone that actually took the time to read the thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Themarvin

Yoshi P. should revoke any clears, take all rewards gotten from the place, no matter the screaming and kicking and re-making it in the sense it was meant to be, there is too much toxic stuff about this, and the content is not made with any players in consideration at all, be it Ultimate only people or the casual raid person that is happy to do weekly story mode content.

That is pretty much how to sum it all up.

---

Nah they just need to use their common sense and not repeat the same mistakes (and worse) they made over 6 years ago, and they need to stop trying to rationalize their poor choice of design behind fairly vague remarks such as "We thought Delubrum had too many support systems".

I don't think anything needs to be revoked, but the devs should be held to a much higher standard all things considered.

Literally making it a separate duty like they should have done so in the first place would have resolved literally every single issue here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Literally making it a separate duty like they should have done so in the first place would have resolved literally every single issue here.

---

A separate duty that you can Party Finder and queue for while in Occult Crescent.

Setting aside difficulty for a moment… What better place to recruit for something related to Occult Cresent than where people already are? That's the one thing about how Delubrum works that I don't particularly like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigCheez

I never played EQ but I think raids were generally 54 player?

---

72. We had to herd 72 cats. And we did it without voice. We had different in-game communication channels for different classes and we would announce what we were doing so the different roles could coordinate. Like I was an enchanter and so the enchanter chat would coordinate on mezzes and charms. The cleric chat would coordinate on chaining heals, the druids and rangers on snares, the shamans on buffs and debuffs, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kasumii

Both sides should have come together and boycott this piece of garbage design.

---

That's what I'm doing. I'm on the hardcore side and I think it was pretty crap of them to deliberately choose the hard over the normal version. Casual and midcore people were looking forward to another CLL or Dal to sink their teeth into. They're really getting ignored this expansion and it bugs me that SE had a chance to even things out and didn't. So even if we can PF this with raidplans outside voice in 7.3, I don't know that I want to contribute to their clear numbers and encourage that behavior.

Hoping some day years in the future they put the TT card on an NPC because it will really suck to never be able to finish my TT collection because they put a card in this mess. Also the Occult records that can only be obtained from here.

i have not even seen a run of fork tower i can join. I tried 2 discords and did not get into party's i looked at players who got the spot over me all of them hade multiple clears looks like you have to play daily to get into fork tower teams or i was just one of many players who not even sniffed the 1st boss that keep getting looked over because of luck/not being picked .

I only can raid on weekends for . This is turning into another ba around that time i was also to busy to play during week enough i will probably not be able to finish the "relic gear" great job square content for only for daily players again

if you have a vod go back into it and report those players its not there rules its the games rule's don't feel bad if they get suspended for it maybe next time they will invite person not in chat to it or at least give pointers in chat and raise players not in there premade.

you dont need all the players to clear you just need players in the party to do the jobs needed to clear and you can also ask the randoms can they do something during whatever boss. It's the ego that gets in the way they don't want the random to say "no i do what i want" that's when you report the solo player for greifing very easy fix for the jerk solo players .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hazard1121

i have not even seen a run of fork tower i can join. I tried 2 discords and did not get into party's i looked at players who got the spot over me all of them hade multiple clears looks like you have to play daily to get into fork tower teams or i was just one of many players who not even sniffed the 1st boss that keep getting looked over because of luck/not being picked .

---

Hopefully you can get in soon, some of my friends and I started a blind run group through discord but after one night we decided it was too difficult to continue doing a blind run because of the time requirements to even get into the OC instance let alone the lockout timer until weather comes again once you get kicked out and the chance that your instance is bugged and it won't spawn again...

how about the party stop complaining and help the random that's no a jerk sniper and is trying to clear and don't use discord or any thing like that or is it to hard to help one person learn looking like a group of cowards and lazy players is what i say

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hazard1121

how about the party stop complaining and help the random that's no a jerk sniper and is trying to clear and don't use discord or any thing like that or is it to hard to help one person learn looking like a group of cowards and lazy players is what i say

---

i'd argue the person refusing to use discord is the lazy player.

we clear twice every night, and in every run someone is getting their first clear.
sounds like a you problem.

According to the Terms of Service (ToS) in Final Fantasy XIV, a player is not allowed to intentionally refuse to revive another player in a specific instance15. However, there have been changes to the "Prohibited Activities" and "Account Penalty Policy" to ensure players can continue to safely enjoy their time in the game24.

how about you look stuff up before you type and make yourself look like you just want to win and don't care

dont need discord to help others anyway and not all players have headsets or even a discord account to use it what do you tell the ps5 player who don't have a pc and there phone is trash

I tell them that PS5 supports Discord VC and they don't even need to use the PS5 mic since they'll just be listening to callouts.
https://www.playstation.com/en-ph/su...rd-voice-chat/

pf is not open content wth are you talking about pf party finder not instance finder

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hazard1121

According to the Terms of Service (ToS) in Final Fantasy XIV, a player is not allowed to intentionally refuse to revive another player in a specific instance15. However, there have been changes to the "Prohibited Activities" and "Account Penalty Policy" to ensure players can continue to safely enjoy their time in the game24.

how about you look stuff up before you type and make yourself look like you just want to win and don't care

---

That turbo-griefing is insane. Joining a premade that studied and is at a prog-point that they can clear, get in, and report everyone inside because it's against ToS to not waste their chemist rezzes on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

That turbo-griefing is insane. Joining a premade that studied and is at a prog-point that they can clear, get in, and report everyone inside because it's against ToS to not waste their chemist rezzes on you.

---

Waste what? A 5s cooldown that can be done in or out of combat? It doesn't take MP or TP and it doesn't require an item. Or were you confusing chemist's revive with the chemist's other abilities that do require either an occult potion or an occult elixir?

Edit for extra stuff: Also one, its also an ability with no cast time. Two, its 30y range. Three, its infinite use. And four, its a weaponskill meaning it won't draw aggro from any elementals who would otherwise aggro if the rez was a spell instead. Basically the most free resurrection ability ever put in the game.

Just admit the actual reason, you view the dead player on the floor as a liability to the clear. As its got nothing to do with some strain on the chemist's resources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryson

i'd argue the person refusing to use discord is the lazy player.

we clear twice every night, and in every run someone is getting their first clear.
sounds like a you problem.

---

You keep bringing up every time "stop being a lazy player" to people who are attempting to run this and aren't able to find a Discord group because they are all full. I wouldn't even put it past some servers to have only a handful of first clears per run now.
Only 518 people have the demon cube mount, according to ffxivcollect. It's been almost a month since this content has been out, something 's up other then "people are too lazy to use discord".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Waste what? A 5s cooldown that can be done in or out of combat? It doesn't take MP or TP and it doesn't require an item. Or were you confusing chemist's revive with the chemist's other abilities that do require either an occult potion or an occult elixir?

Edit for extra stuff: Also one, its also an ability with no cast time. Two, its 30y range. Three, its infinite use. And four, its a weaponskill meaning it won't draw aggro from any elementals who would otherwise aggro if the rez was a spell instead. Basically the most free resurrection ability ever put in the game.

Just admit the actual reason, you view the dead player on the floor as a liability to the clear. As its got nothing to do with some strain on the chemist's resources.

---

I probably could worded that better. A player can only rez 3 times, if you cause multiple deaths (not careful around traps, bad mechanical baits, etcera) then you're wasting potential rezzes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I probably could worded that better. A player can only rez 3 times, if you cause multiple deaths (not careful around traps, bad mechanical baits, etcera) then you're wasting potential rezzes.

---

Now that does make more sense and I fully agree with that. Which is much more understandable. With such a low amount of potential rezzing, it should be used sparingly. Although that bridge is fairly evil if you are too far to be rezzed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Infindox

Only 518 people have the demon cube mount, according to ffxivcollect.

---

Wait really? That is shockingly low. That is like what? The equivalent of 11 unique groups at most worth of players?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I probably could worded that better. A player can only rez 3 times, if you cause multiple deaths (not careful around traps, bad mechanical baits, etcera) then you're wasting potential rezzes.

---

nah you can be raise 3 times but you can raise anyone as much as you want as long they have a stack of raise. Edit: Oh sorry didn't get it. Yes indeed you don't want to kill someone because you don't know what to do when they are probably further in prog. (or clear)
The main problem is that if a group try to clear and are at last boss for exemple, the guy without any exp will maybe wipe everyone way before they go to the prog point.
It's like joining a pf for ultimate for last phase but having no exp past phase 1.

ffcollect doesn't have everyone. There is way more people who have clear it now.

To those whining about not getting into groups, just host your own runs? I wasn't even done with boss 2 and still hosted my runs. You can't expect others to carry you, be it as a sniper or as an FFA joiner. Plenty of people make it into first-timer runs, and plenty of people just yolo it together. Discord parties pop up a lot, and there's signup ones as well, where people who cleared are not prioritized, so you don't even need to host as long as you speak up and write down the Phantom Jobs you bring to the table.

/e: Also, ressing one sniper means risking them killing 47 people. And because everyone can only be raised 3x each, I'm going to be real: the sniper dying shows they will make more mistakes and therefore be likely to cause other people to have undeserved deaths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeycht

ffcollect doesn't have everyone. There is way more people who have clear it now.

---

Okay so their data is behind. That makes more sense. Surely its got to be closer to 1000 at least if its apparently 400 or so clears at least according to the devs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Infindox

You keep bringing up every time "stop being a lazy player" to people who are attempting to run this and aren't able to find a Discord group because they are all full. I wouldn't even put it past some servers to have only a handful of first clears per run now.
Only 518 people have the demon cube mount, according to ffxivcollect. It's been almost a month since this content has been out, something 's up other then "people are too lazy to use discord".

---

ffxivcollect is very out of date.

even the day yoshi p claimed "there's been 400 clears" fflogs had over 700 plds with clears lol

join one of the 10 discords and host a fresh prog (I see signups for this literally every day)

ffxivcollect only has data on public characters, so it will never be 100% accurate. but i do believe it can be used as an indication for engagement and I dont think it would be hugely different - between public and private characters. look at the BA and DRS clears. as much as people want to say BA is beloved, it is beloved by those that do it. it is not engaged with, by the vast majority of the playerbase.

i dont believe FT will be any different, in this respect. this is not content that is going to be engaged with, by the wider population, which is a real miss on CBU3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

ffxivcollect only has data on public characters, so it will never be 100% accurate. but i do believe it can be used as an indication for engagement and I dont think it would be hugely different - between public and private characters. look at the BA and DRS clears. as much as people want to say BA is beloved, it is beloved by those that do it. it is not engaged with, by the vast majority of the playerbase.

i dont believe FT will be any different, in this respect. this is not content that is going to be engaged with, by the wider population, which is a real miss on CBU3.

---

There is actually more than 9000 different chara who have clear the last boss of FT. Way more than what ff14collect is saying. (20x)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryson

even the day yoshi p claimed "there's been 400 clears" fflogs had over 700 plds with clears lol

---

Is there a strict 1 paladin per 48 players? If not, I don't see how that is relevant to clears. As for it be greater than 400 yet still having 700 paladins, that has to be in a range of 1.00 to 1.74 paladins per group. As 1.75 paladins per group is 400. Going higher than starts making the number of clears that contain paladins dip below 400 such as with 1.76 which is 397 clears. Like if fflogs show 8 warriors cleared FT, are they being counted as 8 warriors for 8 clears, 8 warriors for 1 clear, or 8 unique warriors in a variable number of clears from 2 to 7?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeycht

There is actually more than 9000 different chara who have clear the last boss of FT. Way more than what ff14collect is saying. (20x)

---

If you divide 9000 by 48, it's 187.5, far below the 400 SE said. If you divide it by 24 it's 375, still below 400.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If you divide 9000 by 48, it's 187.5, far below the 400 SE said. If you divide it by 24 it's 375, still below 400.

---

As I said "more than". Even the site there doesn't have all data, it's still way more than ffcollect

Yea, I was going to say, where is this 9000 coming from? Can you share the source?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Yea, I was going to say, where is this 9000 coming from? Can you share the source?

---

I gonna let you look for it. It's a certain site about log. (so clear that people parsed that's why there is more likely not every clear but still a lot more than the other site)

I see we've reached the point in the discussion where hardcore raiders start trawling around for data to claim "the content is fine, actually," despite the fact the rest of the player base can see it's shit.

No. I'm simply saying that the data from another site isn't correct, even "my" source isn't. But it's closer to the real number. (I'm far from an hardcore raider btw. I haven't clear FT yet)