To players afraid of being new.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

But it is equally important? Whomever thinks otherwise is talking out of their butt.

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If you think so fine. I'm speaking from my personal experience with MMOs. The reputation that Tanks and Healers have is if they fail then the consequences are much dire, such as the whole group wiping. Whereas if a DD wipes, then it is up to the healer to figure out the appropriate time to resurrect the DD. Most if not all MMOs I've played including this one, dying as a DD has very little consequence. You can just res and continue back to DPSing as if nothing happened. Now let the Tank or Healer die and see what happens.

Had a bad A whm healer in AK yesterday, got to the last boss and she/he got the achievement for clearing the map. It was a good feeling, the run went smooth as butter, but it stinks that maybe he/she held off from saying that they were new because of people who ditch.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

What is really bad about this situation is I am experienced and done pretty well healing as my SCH on all dungeons but I got to level 50 and with my own LS groups proven I can heal do these dungeons fine... But due to the worst of the worst FFXI elitest mindset that pissed me off about FFXI endgame returning in FFXIV and all people not from FFXI are horrible casual noobs and should gtfo, I don't want to df any endgame except Ifrit HM because I don't want to deal with morons being dicks and not aiding new runners or griefing a group for one reason or another, I don't roll with those people so I don't roll DF unless I have a friend to hang with on DF runs XD! I know I can heal fine but I haven't got my gears up yet due to excessive MW prices or nothing dropped yet

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Commas and ellipsis are no substitute for correct punctuation.

My advice to someone who said he was new on a Titan run, "Never say you're new. Say that you're an expert and you're charging everyone in the group for the run."

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Originally Posted by Zer0

Honestly this is the reason I haven't done halatali. My highest level is mara at 25, and really I'm afraid of being that crappy tank since mara's already have that stigma. The game's community is too toxic, don't think I'll do end game anything until I level everything and things die down.

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I feel the same way! I watch videos on the dungeons to make sure I don't mess up, but with all the negativity I just go level other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Azurein

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That's understandable though we have an important role to fill and that's either keeping mobs off you or keeping everyone healed. You might have a differing experiences but you are no less important to me than the anyone else in the party. Damaging is just important and DDing should not be undermined. DPS are the arms and legs, the tank is the body, and the healer is the brain and heart. Without you all getting through dungeons/high level mobs would be very difficult .

Edit: just to let you know I do see people placing more value on the tanks and healers do to the small amount compared to DD. But I guess my viewpoint is black sheep in that I feel DDers
need to put in just as much work and equally appreciated for doing such.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

-snip -

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Well yes, it's not like I'm saying they aren't needed at all. They are and there is no denying that, but if a DD dies in the middle of a boss fight then there's no real consequence to that which I believe is what attracts so many players to that role. However if the tank dies then the boss will usually go after the next person on the aggro table which is usually the healer. Point I'm making is the fact that chaos will ensue among the group if either the tank or healer dies.

However, don't get me wrong there are SOME fights that do require that the DDs do their job correctly or everyone dies. The issue is that it isn't the norm when in my opinion it should be.

I understand everyone is new at one point, but as you try to group up, you should "also" need to research up on what to expect. Nothing worse than in AK, some claim to be new and then refuse to read on waht the fight is about and wiping 5 x time to first boss. You can waste all the time in the world you want but in a mmo, you are "also" wasting time on many others. You want to learn... fine but also be prepared. I seen people who are new who clear flyers and wall no problem but keep dying the the final boss.

I clearly state at the beginning of the dungeon that I've never done it. So far, it hasn't been bad. I can tell you it is always bad when you're new and don't speak up.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I understand everyone is new at one point, but as you try to group up, you should "also" need to research up on what to expect. Nothing worse than in AK, some claim to be new and then refuse to read on waht the fight is about and wiping 5 x time to first boss. You can waste all the time in the world you want but in a mmo, you are "also" wasting time on many others. You want to learn... fine but also be prepared. I seen people who are new who clear flyers and wall no problem but keep dying the the final boss.

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Stop with this "Research before playing."

As someone said before, why play a video game, made for ENTERTAINMENT, if you're just going to read how to do everything? It isn't fun.
People are taking the end-game of this game waaaaaaaay too far and need to cool their jets.

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Originally Posted by Godshelp

Stop with this "Research before playing."

As someone said before, why play a video game, made for ENTERTAINMENT, if you're just going to read how to do everything? It isn't fun.
People are taking the end-game of this game waaaaaaaay too far and need to cool their jets.

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Nothing says fun like reading the Gamer's Guide before playing a game.

You ask "whats the plan for this boss" and people respond "kill him", then get upset that you did not handle mechanic X properly. They think that you have exposed your ignorance, but really it is themselves that have exposed their anti-social mindset. If someone asks you a question and you give them a BS response then it is primarily your fault they dont know what you expected of them.

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Originally Posted by Alavastre

Nothing says fun like reading the Gamer's Guide before playing a game.

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How could I ever have fun if I don't know the strategics involved in AK by lvl 15? C'mon now!

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Originally Posted by TrickedOutHoro

How could I ever have fun if I don't know the strategics involved in AK by lvl 15? C'mon now!

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Can't argue with that.

I guess I'm the opposite of most people. I play with my cousin, who's playing in my living room. And I get angry with him when he's just telling me what to do on a boss and not telling the entire group. You know, don't just tell me, tell everyone!

Personally, I have no problem with taking a few seconds and explaining the deal to people. Guess what, even the experienced players mess up from time to time. I know I do. It's a game, just chillax a bit and enjoy the ride.

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Originally Posted by Godshelp

Stop with this "Research before playing."

As someone said before, why play a video game, made for ENTERTAINMENT, if you're just going to read how to do everything? It isn't fun.
People are taking the end-game of this game waaaaaaaay too far and need to cool their jets.

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Asking people to research fights is not going too far, although trial & error is more viable in this game compared to FFXI, where failure could very well lead to days of farming pop/fight items again. I did Titan last night and it's remarkable how little consequence there is to wiping; you just start at the beginning again.

Still, it's perfectly reasonable to expect people to know one or two important points about a fight, and it's even more reasonable for those people to be receptive to strategizing before the fight. If you feel differently than you should not use the duty finder, because chances are you're going to get people who like being prepared as opposed to winging it. This is completely unrelated to "elitism" or "people taking things too seriously." It's standard practice in cooperative gameplay.

With that being said, I have no problem with your way of doing things. But it's not inherently better or more fun to everyone like you think.

Let's be honest here - we're all being judgmental. When an "elitist" asks you to skip your cutscenes or wants to "spoil" the boss fight for you, they're doing it in order to maximize the efficiency of their run. When you want seven other people who have limited amounts of playtime each day to wait for your cutscene, when you're willing to waste - yes, waste - others' time with wipes because you want to "discover" a boss for yourself, then you're prioritizing your own enjoyment over others' as well.

TL;DR: Everyone's selfish. The key to cooperative gameplay (or cooperative anything, for that matter) is the tempering of those selfish desires to meet halfway in compromise.

http://cdn.meme.li/i/ormul.jpg

Only time I find the "book" to be worse then the "movie"
If you want to ruin your game by reading how to do everything go right ahead. But not everyone wants to. Some people are here to have fun. Which means going in to a new dungeon and being in awe of it. I love hearing omg its so cool. And you lose that when you Google it because they show pictures or a video. Sure its a little different seeing it in game but you still saw it before. And it just lost some of its luster.
Then you get to boss and its like ho hum because you don't get to enjoy it the same. You don't like friends ruining a movie or books ending so why make people ruin their game. If they want to read up on it that's cool.
But as River Song said to the Doctor Spoilers (meaning he would just have to wait)

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Originally Posted by AccountBanned

Everybody was new.

I ran across a few people, and one just the last time I played who told us in the middle of a dungeon that he was new. I simply replied that I wish he would have told us earlier so we could have gave him the run-down of the dungeon. He told me that he was afraid to say it because the last couple times he did everybody in the dungeon left.

I just want to say please don't be afraid or let those types of people make you shy away from telling the group that you're new. It'll save everyone some time to give you a heads up on what to expect.

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Agreed. I find it rather ridiculous when people have zero patience for newbies. Don't go giving someone crap for not knowing how to do something while at the same time not be willing to do anything in regards to the issue outside of yelling at them for it.

I'm far from elitist; but if I'm fighting a boss for the first time, I would hope that someone in the party who has knowledge of the fight would be willing to speak up. Not that I don't want to learn, but I would like to avoid a wipe if I can. I also see no problem in divulging what knowledge I have of an encounter to a first-timer as well. I get that some people want to "discover" the fight, but a little bit of knowledge can go a long way in saving everyone a lot of frustration.

I think most of the dick players don't visit the forums. They are perma-logged rushing content to fill their egos. Too bad they won't change their behavior despite the critics, since they think they are right. No, you are not right. You are a dick. Know that. If you ask people to be polite or you say you're getting tired of the toxic community, you are asked to leave the game. Again. No. I won't leave the game because of your kind.

OP. I agree. I ask if there anyone new with that content. I should add to my speech that no one will leave if they are. I want to help them.

The sheer amount of asshats in MMOs these days because of internet anonymity, I can see why people don't speak up. These asshats are not just leaving groups, they belittle other players without any conscious. We're all playing video games here, not fighting for our lives, have the decency to be courteous, it goes a long way but I'm sure it's all wishful thinking on my part.

Even exp players make mistakes.

I've been thinking about this for a while now too. In the beginning of FFXI most people were so friendly and were happy to help each other out, it was great. But it seems now (pretty much everywhere on the Internet) most people would rather insult others, cause a scene and be despised instead of helping them and appearing respectable. It's disgusting but I don't see it changing. Just keep helping those you can, who will accept it, and stay open to suggestion yourself and hopefully you will meet like-minded people to play with.

Oh, and keep in mind someone throwing a fit because you gave them advise could just be a little kid, don't let it discourage you.

The funny thing is..just because someone has "experience" in the game or a particular dungeon or fight doesn't mean they are good players. For every "noob" that sucks from lack of experience in a particular encounter there are 10 more that think they are "experienced" but suck. They might be familiar with how a fight goes but many times they are completely unfamiliar with MMO fundamentals like aggro management, focus firing, assisting the tank etc..I'll take a noob in a dungeon that knows the basics over an "experienced" player that can't control his character well any day. Those are usually the d-bag players as well..first to blame other people.

If I'm new in a dungeon or don't recall the mechanics I'll say right up front because I could care less if someone leaves. Anyone that leaves because of that is only going to be a PITA later in the dungeon. Better to find that out in the beginning when you can get someone else.

I'm not afraid to admit that I'm new to mmos & if someone offers me help/advice, I'm happy to listen. Yeah, there are some people who are dicks, but I've yet to experience it on df. Last night, I was farming sheep for my weaver & a lvl 50 guy was there doing the same. We'd make sure not to take each other's kills & started chatting. I'm 39 summoner & all my gear is HQ made by me, or cool shit I've gotten on quests. He complimented my gear, gave me some advice & told me to msg him when I get to my lvl 50 class quest if I wanted advice on the best way to fight the guy. It's nice running into friendly helpful players:)

When someone says they are new, I'm willing to teach them but if I look at their gear and they are wearing level 20-30 gear while they are 50. I leave, that's not being new, that's called being a nooblord

it is better to say you are new from the start. To be honest it is very easy to detect 1st time dungeon or primal fight, just by look at how you do the job

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Originally Posted by Ralemont

Asking people to research But it's not inherently better or more fun to everyone like you think.

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So what did people do before someone wrote a guide i wonder? Had FUN working it out..

I think it's not just new players that need educating but the current ones too, if you see someone new don't grill them about their gear etc. Just say something like "Are you new? I can tell you what you need to know.", i've seen a few people with the intentions of helping someone out but opening like how someone who has the intention of flaming them would.

My First AK run took us the whole Time and we died liek 60 Time son the Demon wall.. befor I got it. The Tank was awesome and had lots of Time for me. :)

For the most part there are two kinds of players when it comes to newbies:

The first, and much rarer kind, is the one that takes their time, explain stuff and even if you wipe gets back up and fights again.

The second kind is the elitist mindset that just leaves the Duty, sometimes even just after checking peoples equip. Sadly, every day there seem to be more and more of those people. In that regard the FFXIV community is much worse than the WoW one, much to my suprise. In WoW you wipe and try again. In FFXIV you wipe and someone leaves.

OP: Proud to have you on my server. If more people could display this attitude, less people would be nervous about entering dungeons and raids (especially the ones doing it for the story).

Why do you rely on other players to tell you what to do? You can't use the internet? (Apparently you can when it comes to whining about "lag") An what if you are all new?

Honestly if someone doesnt wish to spend THEIR personal leisure time in teaching the run to a random stranger, how is that any "worse" than the person who shows up with zero preparation expecting to be spoon fed?

Personally, if someone says they are new, normally i will stay and give it a try until they prove they are hopeless, like cant dodge anything at all type player, at which point I have better things to do with my time.

As I healer I have no problem telling someone I'm new. They're the ones that have to sit for 3 hours waiting for a group to queue.

I wish there was some kind of grief report that you could use and somebody could just look at the chat log history and see that this user made the experience hard on you and and take some action to that character. But that kind of control is probably impossible, especially since i doubt any kind of administrator or GM can just look up a discussion log for a dungeon.

I think i'm going to have to be a lvl 50 healer or tank because there are so few and so many of them are just not kind enough to players.

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Originally Posted by neizero

Honestly if someone doesnt wish to spend THEIR personal leisure time in teaching the run to a random stranger, how is that any "worse" than the person who shows up with zero preparation expecting to be spoon fed?

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It's not like the new people and those supporting them are the only ones entitled to play their way. The difference is that the players who harass new players can make them feel genuinly bad and create a bad experience for them. A new person slowing down the party doesn't have that effect, unless it's a jerk - in which case it has nothing to do with the player being new. And some are calling people delicate and fragile for reacting like that to harassment; well that's how different people are.

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Originally Posted by neizero

Why do you rely on other players to tell you what to do? You can't use the internet? (Apparently you can when it comes to whining about "lag") An what if you are all new?

Honestly if someone doesnt wish to spend THEIR personal leisure time in teaching the run to a random stranger, how is that any "worse" than the person who shows up with zero preparation expecting to be spoon fed?

Personally, if someone says they are new, normally i will stay and give it a try until they prove they are hopeless, like cant dodge anything at all type player, at which point I have better things to do with my time.

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I don't rely on other players to tell me what to do. If I'm new and they have some pertinent information about the encounter I should be aware of then I won't ignore it. If everyone is new or someone can't be bothered to give that info I'll wing it and learn on the fly. If I have prolonged trouble on a fight I might look up some info on the Internet to see if there is anything I'm missing but I don't enjoy doing "homework" before every encounter. That is not fun and semi-ruins the experience of exploring a new dungeon.

This new breed of MMO player that has to wait for others to master content and then study every aspect before even trying it would never have hacked it in older MMOs that required exploration, experimentation and LOTS of trial and error. The figuring out of strategies/encounters was part of the fun.

OMG my life is so hard. The other day while I was just lazily sitting in my computer chair like I do every day (unlike all those starving kids in Africa), playing Final Fantasy XIV, I had to teach a NEW PERSON how to run this dungeon. WTF. I actually had to type stuff on a keyboard and tell them how to do things, and then we got into an ARGUMENT. JEEZ! What is the world coming to, why is my life so hard? This videogame that lets me run around in a huge virtual fantasy world and slay mythical creatures with other actual folk is just SO HARD to experience, jeez I can't get over it, I'm just gonna quit and go lay in my nice fluffy comfortable bed, curl up in a ball and cry. I HATE MY LIFE