Dragoons and the future of jump ability's.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

I'm only saying jump is already a DPS increase and isn't risky if you know when to use it. It isn't broken/dead in any way, it just requires people to actually pay attention to the fight to use correctly.

I wouldn't mind a change to jump either, maybe to get better damages on it/to be able to use it more often, or to charge it, or whatever.
What I don't want, though, is jumps to become skills having absolutely no consequences. That's what makes dragoon fun.

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We have different definitions of fun. Other classes don't suffer consequences when using their off GCD abilities between WSs. Why should Dragoons? We're already penalized with an animation longer than GCD as it is.

Bump for change.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

What I don't want, though, is jumps to become skills having absolutely no consequences. That's what makes dragoon fun.

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That is what Jump is all about.
It is a skill designed to kill dragons by jumping over their range of attack and deliver a killing blow from above at high speed avoiding any kind of damage and danger while increasing the strenght of the attack itself. That`s why it is only posible with a Dragoon armor and a spear as a weapon only. That is the whole point of Dragoons.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon_(Job)

By asking for inmunity in jump skills we are not only asking for a much needed buff, but also for "historical accuracy" within the Final Fantasy metaverse.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

That is what Jump is all about.
It is a skill designed to kill dragons by jumping over their range of attack and deliver a killing blow from above at high speed avoiding any kind of damage and danger while increasing the strenght of the attack itself. That`s why it is only posible with a Dragoon armor and a spear as a weapon only. That is the whole point of Dragoons.

By asking for inmunity in jump skills we are not only asking for a much needed buff, but also for "historical accuracy" within the Final Fantasy metaverse.

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This no matter how much people dont want to accept it. Is true, the real strong point behind the dragon skin we wear and the lance we wield is taking to the skys. tell me how many dragoons even do that during real combat anymore. Very few because in REAL COMBAT we get punished for doing it THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.

So Wyrms are supposed to be a thing soon, i dont think that will fix the class skills. But i guess they are hoping it adds dps, what are your thoughts as dragoons.

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Originally Posted by Bebo

So Wyrms are supposed to be a thing soon, i dont think that will fix the class skills. But i guess they are hoping it adds dps, what are your thoughts as dragoons.

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That looks like a troll post.

I am pretty sure the devs said they dont want to give DRG a wyrm, as that would mean having to lower the dps from the dragoon himself balancewise. Dragoon is bursty in design, so that would clash with that idea.

I will be for making jump sth with a cast time (so you are vulnerable before using it) and invincible/damage reduction on air and very high potency and maybe more punishment when you go down.

That's always my impression of jumps in FF games. You wait for your dragoon to jump up, he's gone and when he comes down he does huge damage. Right now jump feels too inconsequential because it only adds a little to your dps and in many occasions it's just plain better to not use it. I want it to function as a mini lb where you buff up and take risk for huge damage.

Thats actually a really good idea. I like it.

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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds

We have different definitions of fun. Other classes don't suffer consequences when using their off GCD abilities between WSs. Why should Dragoons? We're already penalized with an animation longer than GCD as it is.

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Traditionally, Jump removes the player from combat entirely for a certain amount of time, preventing them from being targeted by any enemy or ally or performing any other actions.

Personally I don't mind that Jump has a risk involved, it makes you think a bit more before using it.

Having said that I do wish there was bit more to it, either more damage (the move does have a good deal of risk associated with it especially the further on you go) or giving the dragoon a special buff, or a secondary debuff on the target that is useful to the whole group (which would be nice as it would provide some extra utility for dragoons and make them more wanted in raids etc).

It seems pretty obvious that jumps were designed to be a risk vs reward abilities. I wouldn't complain if jumps had a little less risk or a little more reward, but the idea of adding an invulnerability frame is just too much. With the number of jumps available, you could essentially counter every fight mechanic (save Rot if you're in the rotation) by jumping.

I think a better solution would be to add a defensive trait that gives %damage reduction while performing jumps or allowing jump animations to scale off skill speed.

How hard would it be to give us a 3-4 second invulnerability after landing so that we can move out of whatever crap we land in?

As a Dragoon as well, I certainly wouldn't see an issue with giving us a second or so of invulnerability while in the air during a jump. Would that really be so much to ask for? It sucks jumping, then suddenly getting caught by an attack during the recovery frames.

At least this way, you could use jump as a defensive tool as well. If you see the enemy about to use an AOE, you could use jump to avoid it, get damage, and take some pressure off the healer(s). All I can see here is a win-win situation for this fix.

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Originally Posted by TetsuyaHikari

At least this way, you could use jump as a defensive tool as well. If you see the enemy about to use an AOE, you could use jump to avoid it, get damage, and take some pressure off the healer(s). All I can see here is a win-win situation for this fix.

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This is the exact reason why invuln frames would be too strong... you want the best offensive abilities to also be the best defensive abilities. That's not balance, that's broken.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

This is the exact reason why invuln frames would be too strong... you want the best offensive abilities to also be the best defensive abilities. That's not balance, that's broken.

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Except they're on cooldowns, and they still displace your position at risk.


That said, I personally don't really care too much about invuln frames, so long as the animation control is smoothed out: e.g. the player can control themselves sooner after you land. As it current works, there's a tediously long animation lock where the player can't move. The overall speed of the animation in general is also slightly ~_~.

I think the main issue re: invuln frames and Jump (not DFD or Spineshatter) is that the player seems to be vulnerable to AOEs at multiple distances during the Jump. The player is restricted to using Jump only when they are safe from long-range AOEs, short range AOEs, and everything in between for ~2 seconds. A few invuln frames would reduce that to something more consistent / sensible like being only vulnerable to AOEs where you start -or- when your Jump strikes, not both (and everything in between).

Bump for resolution to this issue.

After having leveled some other classes to 50, i do think jumps could need a little bit of love.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

This is the exact reason why invuln frames would be too strong... you want the best offensive abilities to also be the best defensive abilities. That's not balance, that's broken.

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Invulnerability frames granted on CDs would be considered too strong? Okay, lol. Yeah, let me go ahead and brag about how awesome I would be with a 1-2 second invulnerability window on my 40, 90, and 180 second cooldown jump abilities.

I'd be so broken, yo.

I'd like to see damage immunity during jump as well. People talk about risk versus reward of the current jump system, however I think adding the ability to time and avoid AEs via jump would add a new strategic element to the job as the timing window would be pretty short and you are risking messing up the timing and taking a lot if not critical damage from an ability you could just run out of instead. If you time it well then you'll be able to stay on the enemy and push out more damage.

It's actually kind of odd that it's not like this already as this has been the signature of the Jump ability to begin with.

i'd be happy if they spend animation up 10% and made it so regular Jump leaves you at 1 position hitbox wise, instead of making you boomerang all over the place

Jumps, as they are, are not difficult to use even if they leave you open. You simply have to pick and choose your moments--and that is not a difficult thing to do (so far in my experience). Though, I can see how many could view that as annoying.

My problem with Jumps is that they are boring. They're just another off-GCD ability. Blah. If they had invulnerability frames of some sort, they'd have an interesting element to them.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

It's actually kind of odd that it's not like this already as this has been the signature of the Jump ability to begin with.

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Exactly. When playing FFIV, I would specifically wait during certain parts on boss fights until instructing Kain to execute Jump because there would be a spell (or in this case, AOE) that was about to hit the party, so by jumping... He would be able to avoid it. Let's face it, ground AOEs have no business hitting someone if they're in the air. That's just ridiculous.

It would be like trying to cast 'Quake' on a floating enemy. It doesn't make sense, lol.