Is this bannable? I got reported for...

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

It's not my fault you keep making terrible posts in the active threads.



Yes, GMs have no tools to investigate things with :rolleyes: Devs/GMs don't actually have magic, it still takes a human to use said tools and time to properly investigate and ban bots.

Maybe the only MMOs you've played were filled with GMs with zero capabilities, but I highly doubt SE is one of them.

Hell, CCP is a much smaller company than SE, and the GMs there can detect bots just fine - yes, even injections and scripts that you apparently think is undetectable.

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/sigh
Do bots exist in these game? exactly, FYI SE had made several updates to the 1.0 client to try to stop third party injectors and were always trying to lock down them. the problem is that just like a virus all these have a unique signature. The fact is the inject takes place on the client, that then feeds data to a server. You have no idea what your talking about. I have faith in SE, but this example right here is a person engaging in questionable activity who may be wrongfully accused. no system is perfect. Your failure to even see the point and your lack of understanding. GM's use tools built into the game and not "YOUR" client, they can not go into your client and access anything. so these programs will mostly go undetected. I have decided that from now on, I am just gonna post like you don't exist, as you have little to nothing to really contribute.

I like turtles

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Originally Posted by Noata

Definition, Unattended - not noticed or dealt with.


If unattended play is against TOS, he was doing it! I am not saying ban hammer him, but that is breaking the rules... so I guess you could say it is a crime lol.
you can spin words around it all you want, but in Law they use definitions not objective viewpoints. your statement just further clarified the meeting of the definition of unattended. by all means I would slap him on the wrist, but by no means was it not wrong

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It is not unattended play is he was holding his controller, pressing buttons, and actually playing his character. If I turn away from the screen and am no longer looking at it the entire time while I am still pressing buttons on my controller, it does not automatically become unattended play.

If you have to ask if it's bannable, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.
If other people thought you were a bot, got angry and tried to stop you, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.

I have to admit, I'm pissed off at you. I play the game as it was intended to be played. I go farm materials that I need to level up my crafts. I don't use macros, bots, or any other cheap trickery to do it. I spent 2 hours the other night trying to farm some HQ fleece so I could finish my level 50 weaving quest. ALL of the sheep camps were farmed to within a millisecond of spawning. My husband, who loves me, and is much more calm than I am, noticed that at least one of them appeared to be botting. He did the same thing other players did to you, until the bot finally died from a sheep. I have no sympathy for you if you get banned. However, I would almost accept it if you only received a warning.

If you have to wonder if what you're doing is against the rules, you shouldn't be doing it. Period.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry... but I think I'll stick with laugh.

Go ahead and keep believing that devs have no way to discern if a 3rd party program was used. In your reality, these things would never have happended:

http://nosygamer.blogspot.com/2013/0...d-and.html?m=1

obviously GMs in Eve found the behaviors of characters who weren't even logged in to be questionable, as they didn't respond to convo requests!!! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

If you have to ask if it's bannable, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.

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being ignorant or just prudent does not chane what is allowed and what is not.

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If other people thought you were a bot, got angry and tried to stop you, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.

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that is pretty shaky logic, why should the OP be responsible for other's mistake?

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I have no sympathy for you if you get banned. However, I would almost accept it if you only received a warning.

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If OP actually botted, then I'm right there with you. But since he did not, why should he be punished? And how is using in-game macros cheap? should bards who use macros for their skill rotations be banned too? It's there for every player to use if they want, it's not the OP's fault you decided not to utilize the tools given to you by the devs.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

If you have to ask if it's bannable, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.
If other people thought you were a bot, got angry and tried to stop you, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.
I have to admit, I'm pissed off at you. I play the game as it was intended to be played. I go farm materials that I need to level up my crafts. I don't use macros, bots, or any other cheap trickery to do it.
If you have to wonder if what you're doing is against the rules, you shouldn't be doing it. Period.

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This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I watch movies while I play too, but even when im only half @$$'ing it, I see my tells and would respond if someone called me a bot, unless of course, I was actually botting.

If you're using in-game macros and hitting the buttons yourself then I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I use a macro to do most of my crafting and I hardly look at my screen while doing it. This is essentially the same thing, you just looked at your screen a little less.

Oh, and if somebody sent me a tell accusing me of botting I probably wouldn't bother responding, if I even noticed it. You're not obligated to answer.

In this thread I see a lot of justification. If your screen is not on you are not playing the game. If you do not understand this ask a three year old and they will set you straight.

The rest: He pressed macros on a controller, they cannot prove it, such and such was removed... all justification, smoke screen, what ever you want to call it to excuse a bad behavior.

Game on and you watching = playing.
Game not visual at long periods of time = not playing.
Asking to define long periods of time = not playing.

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Originally Posted by Aleksandr

In this thread I see a lot of people who thinks they have the right to dictate how other people should play their game within legal boundary

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fixed for you. I don't like to farm for mats, and I think it's nice if people can be courteous while competing for spawns, but at least I recognize it is fully within their right to not give two **** about their competitors.

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The rest: He pressed macros on a controller, they cannot prove it, such and such was removed... all justification, smoke screen, what ever you want to call it to excuse a bad behavior.

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Originally Posted by MaFi0s0

By macro I mean ingame macro.

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{Reading Comprehension} {Do you have it?}

So you want me to fish while looking at the screen all time?

I just lay down and relax listening to the soothing sound and pressing throw or hook depending on sound.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

I Ignore tells all the time, I dont expect to get banned for it.

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This is a bad idea. If you've been reported for botting a GM will send you a tell to see if you're at the computer. If you don't respond, they will likely ban you for it. It's in the ToS you signed.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1
Under the section titled "Activities that destroy game balance":

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Additionally, during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

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I added the bold in myself since so many people in this thread are asking about it. Failure to respond to a tell from a GM is a violation.

And I can tell you they DO whisper you if you look like you're botting. A friend of mine has been asked 3 times while leveling crafting and since he's always at the computer he is able to respond and they leave him alone. If you're not paying attention, you may get yourself in trouble.

I fish without looking at the screen because my controller vibrates and tells me when to reel the fish in but I've never found a need to really ask if I could get banned for it. I don't think there should be a need to fear if you're really just playing without looking but one should never turn off the sounds while doing so. If the BGM bugs you then turn it off in the sound options. Bright lights bother you? Turn off your monitor/TV but stick some speakers in it. But ALWAYS keep the tell chime on in case someone does find you fishy, no pun intended.

This is especially true if you're monopolizing monsters that are few in number but drop items high in demand like karakul for fleece. How someone manages to do something like slaying monsters repeatedly while "blind" if they're not utilizing some kind of sound cue from the game is beyond me and if they're using sound cues then turning on the chimes should be no big deal.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

So you want me to fish while looking at the screen all time?

I just lay down and relax listening to the soothing sound and pressing throw or hook depending on sound.

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Sorry, you can only fish the way it was intended, sitting in the intended posture, using the intended hotbar setup, with your monitor and pc or ps3 arranged in the intended direction, otherwise you will automatically become the Evil Bot Overlord and shall be banned forever.

You know, seeing this thread makes me wonder something. If I were a botter, and came back to my computer to realize I'd been caught by other people, wouldn't it be smart to go onto the forums and make a post about how I'm not a botter - despite all evidence to the contrary - to make myself seem more legitimate?

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Originally Posted by jcw005

You know, seeing this thread makes me wonder something. If I were a botter, and came back to my computer to realize I'd been caught by other people, wouldn't it be smart to go onto the forums and make a post about how I'm not a botter - despite all evidence to the contrary - to make myself seem more legitimate?

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I'm sure it's coming once SE starts taking action. I seen it in other games.

Hello!

This thread was brought to my attention from the community team so that a response could be provided from the Game Master perspective.

If a customer is reported for absentee play, we will investigate them for that violation. Our investigations use various means to determine if a customer is attending to the game or using some means of automating gameplay so they are able to play the game while away from the computer. We can definitely understand the concerns that may be raised about inaccurate investigations, which is why we use several different means of determining absentee play. Provided you are not away from the computer and able to respond to a GM if necessary, then it is highly unlikely that it would be determined that you are guilty of an absentee play violation.

In terms of account actions, absentee play is considered equivalent to third party program use, which requires a suspensions for a first offense. Prior violations may cause this to result in the termination of the account, depending on the results of an account review.

I hope this provided a bit more insight into how GMs handle these reports and investigations. I have tried to stay away from speaking in complete absolutes about specific situations, since each situation is different and requires an actual investigation to determine the outcome.

LGM Enkrateia

I love when SE sends out mixed signals, after 10 years of XI I learned basically this about their ToS 'gray areas'.
Automation is OK, as long as you are NOT away and it does NOT involve the use of 3rd party programs.

I was one of the people who was given a G series logitech macro keyboard for one of SE's promotions in the XI days. That had a lot of people confused.

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Hello!

This thread was brought to my attention from the community team so that a response could be provided from the Game Master perspec-

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Told ya..its that whole 'away' part that really grinds SE's gears.

Eh, but... What then about that ability for crafters that let you automatically craft a set number of an item? And if you leave the computer while this goes on? Okokok I guess the answer kinda gives itself here, since this is an actual ability, but still... Macros are ingame as well, so I'm just curious.

So, if someone AFKs using one of their "methods" and a GM contacts them they will be reprimanded? Hope they know that.

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Originally Posted by Leowilde

Eh, but... What then about that ability for crafters that let you automatically craft a set number of an item? And if you leave the computer while this goes on? Okokok I guess the answer kinda gives itself here, since this is an actual ability, but still... Macros are ingame as well, so I'm just curious.

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Quick synthesis gives a fraction of the exp as regular crafting and using all your abilities each time. Sure you can use an in-game macro for crafting, but you can't macro it to make multiple items, as you still need to click the synthesis button, then use the macro to run through the steps for that one item.

Third party macro however, would allow a player to automate that whole process, and even have it set to repeat. So the character would continuously make high exp gain items without human interaction for possibly hours. This is what SE has an issue with...

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

This is a bad idea. If you've been reported for botting a GM will send you a tell to see if you're at the computer. If you don't respond, they will likely ban you for it. It's in the ToS you signed.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1
Under the section titled "Activities that destroy game balance":


I added the bold in myself since so many people in this thread are asking about it. Failure to respond to a tell from a GM is a violation.

And I can tell you they DO whisper you if you look like you're botting. A friend of mine has been asked 3 times while leveling crafting and since he's always at the computer he is able to respond and they leave him alone. If you're not paying attention, you may get yourself in trouble.

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I have tells, Shouts, and Yells turned off. I use macros for everything I do Fighting, Tanking, fishing, Crafting, and when I start to gather the same I dont have time to get spammed by Bots, or people yelling and shouting for parties, thats what my FC is for.

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Originally Posted by VitoScaletta

I love when SE sends out mixed signals, after 10 years of XI I learned basically this about their ToS 'gray areas'.
Automation is OK, as long as you are NOT away and it does NOT involve the use of 3rd party programs.

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Isn't that like... the same with every MMOs? As long as you're still sitting in front of the screen, there's really no way to determine if you're botting, especially when using hardwares that support automated actions. That's why I don't really care that much about bots, as long as they're not teleporting everywhere, doing things a lot faster than everyone else...
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Are people seriously suggesting that it's botting to use in game macros? Are you kidding me?

The point is that the 'player' was not playing. They were not attending their screen, AT ALL. They were unable to respond to anyone, or modify their actions based on changes around them. They. Were. Not. Playing. They had automated their actions to achieve the desired result without their attendance. The game was running, their character was acting, but...

They.
Were.
Not.
Playing.

And that is the point. Whether you want to call it botting, unattended play, using their resources, or anything else. The end result is that they weren't actually playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Are people seriously suggesting that it's botting to use in game macros? Are you kidding me?

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It's not botting to use in-game macros, but it is botting and a 100% bannable offense if u use a 3rd party program or a mouse/controller/keyboard macro button to loop the in-game macros.

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Originally Posted by Ninjaii

It's not botting to use in-game macros, but it is botting and a 100% bannable offense if u use a 3rd party program or a mouse/controller/keyboard macro button to loop the in-game macros.

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He dont have it looped he clearly says he hit the macro every time with out looking at the screen. So I figured he is saying he hit the macro every 5 minutes or so. I do the same thing Crafting The only difference I change back to game after each craft and I know Im not a bot even if someone tells me I have Tells turned off dont see what the big deal is I start a craft hit my marco watch tv, change back real fast pick item I want to craft hit macro watch tv.

Eh NVM: Absentee play is still as ambiguous as ever.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Who's definition is that? Yours or SE's?

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un·at·tend·ed
/ˌənəˈtendid/
Adjective
Not noticed or dealt with: "her behavior went unnoticed and unattended to".
Not supervised or looked after: "it is not acceptable for parents to leave children unattended at that age".

Pretty much THE definition, who? the dictionaries

wow people keep getting hung up in symantics.

The OP is controlling his character. It doesn't matter how he controls it. He is doing it. It is not botting, nor is it unattended play.

It is like saying if you are blind and you are trying to play that makes it Unattended? and, aside from horrible waste of money on your part, SE will ban you? No it does not.

Unattended means somehow the game is playing itself without you being involved. As long as you are controlling your character - regardless how badly or how well - it is not unattended play.

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Originally Posted by Noata

Thinking about it more it seems alot like botting, setting a macro to auto kill mobs while you watch TV. I do believe that would be considered a bot in a sense. this is a makeshift auto killer and he is asking if letting the Macro run and it killing mobs while he watches TV is ok. I feel like we started arguing the wrong point and did not address if this was botting or not... I keep seeing this as made, an auto killer, left it to kill while i watched TV... I cant get banned for this can I? I am also concerned how he had multiple whispers and such... exactly how long was he running this auto killer.

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There is nothing with auto-kill.
/targetenemy
Do this on the L2+X slot
The attack skill on the L2+triangle slot.

While you watch TV, press once L2+X, then maybe 10 times (to be 100% sure) L2+triangle. Then L2+X again. There is nothing automatic in it, except /targetenemy, which don't kill enemies. You can also do this with no target macro. Just with the d-pad to tab to the next enemy.

botting? no way
efficient? no way
possible? yes

GUYS YOU BETTER HOPE YOUR SCREEN DOESN'T STOP WORKING ANYTIME WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING BECOZ, AW EW OO, THAT GUY IS UNATTEEEEEEEENDED PLAYEEEE.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1
Under the section titled "Activities that destroy game balance":

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There is the definitive answer, yes you can get banned, end the thread. Simply not responding to a GM whisper is grounds for "actioning", regardless if you macro'ing, botting or just plain ignorant

This is the tool that I reported yesterday. There were 5 people standing in the same spot legitimately trying to farm, either this guy was botting or using an incredibly efficient macro as he was targeting and attacking creatures before anyone else could, even though some of us were sitting there spamming Tab+Attack. The reason why I say it was efficient (if it`s not a bot) is because his character was periodically turning around to target creatures behind him and attacking them.

Botting or not, you deserve to get banned. You were standing there for hours taking farm from people playing legitimately. If you want to be cheap, that`s fine, but do something that doesn`t affect the rest of the players, like GATHERING. As someone else asked, if you need to ask whether you could get banned for it, you shouldn`t be doing it. You tosser.

Since we're arguing semantics, "unattended" is pretty vague. If I'm reading a book while still pressing buttons (because crafting can be that mind-numbing), am I violating the ToS? If you continue playing while you take a phone call? Some of these definitions are insanely broad. However, "unattended" is a word someone pulled out of their arse earlier in this thread..

The actual verbiage is (and traditionally has been) automation, i.e. requiring no human interaction, or self-playing. In this case, it specifically says "automation software."

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2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

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It's definitely not "automation software," which seems to be the argument in this thread. What it could be considered is "hardware designed to modify[...]gameplay." The real issue, if someone wants to argue semantics, is whether not a controller/keyboard that can repeat keystrokes is "authorized." There is no list of "authorized devices," so who's to say it is(n't)?

Didn't even see the rep post

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Provided you are not away from the computer and able to respond to a GM if necessary, then it is highly unlikely that it would be determined that you are guilty of an absentee play violation.

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if using in-game macros is considered botting for some people here, then SE just have to get rid of it for good

i use a macro which consist of 4 buffs
while my char executing the macro, i can look at my phone to check things
is that unattended play?
if yes, then i'm screwed :/

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Hello!

This thread was brought to my attention from the community team so that a response could be provided from the Game Master perspective.

LGM Enkrateia

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Thanks for the response.

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Originally Posted by Tomumu

The reason why I say it was efficient (if it`s not a bot) is because his character was periodically turning around to target creatures behind him and attacking them.

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I remember you. I was turning 180degrees because I specifically positioned my camera so that it showed 3 spawn points for the mobs, I wasnt targetting out of view.

tl;dr version:
@OP: Semantics aside, you were by definition botting. Have a nice day.

Long version:
"Bots" used by RMT's are nothing more than characters being run on a script. Consider the two situations and tell me how they are different:

- A botter has a character run a macro that enables them to farm mobs without any input, for their personal gain. This is bannable

- You had a character running a macro that enabled them to farm mobs without any input, for your personal gain. You ask if this is bannable

I think you should have you answer

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

if using in-game macros is considered botting for some people here, then SE just have to get rid of it for good

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I'm going to go back to WoW here for a moment, but there was a point when you could basically write add-ons that almost automated healing and decursing. One button raiding for healers. Spam it, and it would select who needed healing based on who had what health in the party and what spell to use. Another button to spam which would see if people were cursed and if so, remove it. I knew people who raided vanilla while watching movies and hitting two buttons over and over. Blizzard changed that after a while, big time. Square could easily decide the macro abilities have automated too much, and change it.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

tl;dr version:
"Bots" used by RMT's are nothing more than characters being run on a script. Consider the two situations and tell me how they are different:

- A botter has a character run a macro that enables them to farm mobs without any input, for their personal gain. This is bannable

- You had a character running a macro that enabled them to farm mobs without any input, for your personal gain. You ask if this is bannable

So you missed the part when he do input the macro command everytime he claimed a mob he just doing it without looking at the screen.

I think you should have you answer

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So, I guess you miss the part when he does in fact Input the macro command everytime he claims a mob, he just do it without watching the screen. I guess Im cheating too since I use macros why I watch tv also.