OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

Regen on 1 or more targets is about equivalent to the faerie's embrace . Especially since you can't control the faerie completely and it heals 33% less then it should.

So far from playing both healer in coil the only noitceable thing sch has over whm is less threat.
Some fights like ADS double whm is better.

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Originally Posted by Daraqueth

Now to a point that I do agree in.
2x WHMs would probably have an easier time than 2x SCH on many of these fights - but I don't think thats a just indication of power - the WHMs spells allows for better fixing of emergencies, while the SCH spells ensures emergencies are kept to a minimum.

I think they should be seen in the light of working together or standign alone (AKA 4man).

Also I would like to remind you that Medica is potency 300 (if your heal is 150 and shield 150 - isn't that the same?) - now while I know Medica 2 on the other hand is more powerful, thats where I believe the Fairy makes up for it for Scholars.

Just some input.

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In theory, medica is 300, succor is 300 total, they look the same but in reality after a huge AoE hit a Scholar has to either spam succor at least 3 times (current gear tier) or to rely completely on WHM to top off the raid. Succor is too niche a heal that only fits in certain niche like contant raid-wide AoE, while being useless against burst AoE type, which leads to non stackable SCHs. On the other hand, WHM mana issue will gradually goes away with higher tier gear, while a WHM with its well-rounded toolkit can do virtually anything a SCH can do, or do it better, save for the shields which is actually quite worthless. Its like 300HP on top of like 3k min for Titan. soooo much ugh. Free succor proc is worthless also, it procs when you cast the dome, and its 20% chance against how many time you make a dome in raid ... calculate it yourself.

Some said WHM heals raid while SCH keeps tank up after huge AoE. Replace the SCH in that scenario by a WHM, you wont see any difference. The reason is that: WHM must be able to heal tank well or else their cry would be ear-piercing (and the class will be even more worthless than SCH ATM). Now replace the WHM by a SCH .....

I havent even touch the dreaded fairy AI/control yet.

Some might feel current SCH status acceptable, but I myself dont, and many other agree with me.

Also, good luck at next 24m raid where your dreamy "optimal" raid team consists of 3SCH + 3WHM (since oh well, you WANT SCH+WHM to make perfect pair, dont you?). I'm looking forward to it, hehe.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

In theory, medica is 300, succor is 300 total, they look the same but in reality after a huge AoE hit a Scholar have to either spam succor or rely completely on WHM to top off the raid.
Some might feel current SCH status acceptable, but I myself dont, and many other agree with me.

And good luck at next 24m raid where your dreamy "optimal" raid team consists of 3SCH + 3WHM (since oh well, you WANT SCH+WHM to make perfect pair!) I'm looking forward to it, hehe.

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6 regen and 6 medica 2 stacked @_@

I hate this forum's arbitrary words count limit.

The way I see it, Scholar is a supporting healer and with their fairy also being a supporting healer, together makes a more whole job. I feel like some of you are just slamming your heads against the wall because you kind of refuse to look at the other options. Scholar definitely exceeds in some contents too. Garuda hard-mode is a great example. They also help out tremendously in Titan hard-mode too. It is better to have one of each healer rather than stacking 2 white mage or 2 scholar for either of those fights. You have to slightly micro-manage your fairy, but other than that it's just timing. The one thing I could honestly say needs work on the job is the ability to use macros with the pet abilities. Could you imagine macros like Succor + Whispering Dawn? And it would help to keep things like Rouse up on your pet as well.

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Originally Posted by fanservice

Never said SCHs do.

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Sure you did. Why mention Cure II being free at all then?

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20% chance.

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5% more than WHM's cure II proc.

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30 second recast time. 15 second effect. Costs one lustrate/energy drain. Tied to atherflow's minute long cooldown

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I can throw around with ellipses as well: Situational. Enough to save you from AoE. Choice between 10% damage reduction to whole party/charge MP/60% heal for one party member. Also, Lustrate has lower recast time than WHM's Benediction, even if it's 40% less potent.

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Don't make it sound like it can be spammed for free with no opportunity cost.

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If you want to just spam things, you're better off with WHM anyway.

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I heard bards are extremely popular, and people like to have at least 2. This isn't an excuse.

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Excuse for what exactly?

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The point I'm making is succor is fine. Shields are fine. Not having an alternative to succor with how shield mechanics are isn't fine. I shouldn't have to explain to you why given this. Having only succor is like casting adloquium on someone with a stronger shield on anyway; you're wasting half of the spell, MP, and time in general.

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The shield mechanics are fine. You cast Adloquium on the tank; Cast Succor on the party; the stronger shield on tank stays intact (no effect). However recasting Succor on the whole party will reset/update the shield. It would have been ridiculous otherwise.

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Originally Posted by fanservice

due to shield mechanics

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You keep throwing this around without actually explaining how you think the shields work. How about we start from there?

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Well the fairy still doesn't make up for the strength of medica 2, but I'm not saying it should. I do belive WHMs should keep their medica ii, and cure iii unique.

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I don't really get what you want for SCH to be honest. I don't think the fairy makes up for medica 2 as well, but you do have the advantage of being able to heal two targets at the same time, if you don't try to manage the fairy completely. Honestly, in a non-trashmob encounter the AI behaves just fine - all you have to do is position the fairy so that the AoE regen hits all party members. And the party members have to be aware that the fairy is a healer they have to be in range of - just like they have to be in range for you, or any AoE spell. I have my fairy on auto and simply move her around according to the situation.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

which leads to non stackable SCHs

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Which isn't a bad thing. Class stacking is silly.

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Also, good luck at next 24m raid where your dreamy "optimal" raid team consists of 3SCH + 3WHM (since oh well, you WANT SCH+WHM to make perfect pair, dont you?). I'm looking forward to it, hehe.

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24 = 3x8 parties, so no change in mechanics if you know that those 3 parties will have to split up and do things simultaneously. If people decide a class sucks, no amount of fixes will change that opinion, see MNK vs DRG. You will just have to find people who see SCH for what it is, can make use of this and can play together well.

Its more in line with WAR vs PLD, you can visit tank forum to see how it fares. The only difference is Yoshida basically said WAR sucked it up and play lol.

There is no point comparing spell one-by-one as you have to look at how a class functions as a whole. As it is right now SCH cant do 'preemptive healing' effectively and its AOE is gimped, an improvement is needed. Or at least fix the damn pet so I can save the long-ass AoE healing to time with my other coolowns. Any heal with CD is worthless when the AI keeps spamming it on-CD at will. Any mentioning of it is not worth listening to since obviously that person never actually tried to incorporate it into their healing to match with AOE spikes. I dont even havd to read your whole post to see if you let it auto heal during fight.

Btw, do you really play SCH :\ 20% free succor is calculated on dome cast, the same as free cure 2 on cure 1 cast. The issue is: you can never spam sacred soil, lol.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

The shield mechanics are fine. You cast Adloquium on the tank; Cast Succor on the party; the stronger shield on tank stays intact (no effect). However recasting Succor on the whole party will reset/update the shield. It would have been ridiculous otherwise.

You keep throwing this around without actually explaining how you think the shields work. How about we start from there?

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Why would it be ridiculous? If 2 WHM each cast medica, don't they each get a 300 potency worth? If 2 SCH each cast Succor, one gets 150 heal +150 shield. The other gets 150 heal for the same MP and cast time. I honestly don't understand why so many seem to think this is perfectly normal. In the same scenario, if each cast their respective spells twice in a row, the difference would become even more staggering.

I understand that the classes aren't completely equal, but the above issue coupled with the very wonky pet AI ARE something that should be at least looked at. I'm not asking for Medica II, I'm not even asking for Medica I. Just give me something that will allow me to AoE heal without gimping myself. Making the fairy HoT completely controllable and putting it on a 30 sec cooldown would work for me as well honestly.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

When you do actual serious fights then all this changes. Just like warrior tanks are fine(or even better) for AK ifrit and garuda but becomes jokes compared to pld in harder fights.

To match whm's healing potency sch needs to cast more spells.

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Except that again you re not here to heal as a white mage. People still dont get it and its kinda sad

What if I tell you I'm not healing as WHM? Ive played priest in WoW straight in 4 years, I know what preventive shielding is and how to execute it properly. Its not freaking rocket science. The issue is: shields aint as strong as the "L2P" camp advocates, then while a SCH is almost useless against heavy AoE, it has almost nothing that a WHM cant do. There are enough posts in this thread with basic maths pointing it out, please re-read it.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Regen on 1 or more targets is about equivalent to the faerie's embrace . Especially since you can't control the faerie completely and it heals 33% less then it should.

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That's wrong. Regen heals more than cure/physick and embrace is naturally weaker than physick. Remember the CP on regen is per tick. Even medica 2 heals for more than embrace. Once again the CP is per tick.

I never had a problem so far and have healed every dungeon. When I got succor it was a godsend and made everything so much easier. At endgame my Succors hit for like 300-500 plus a shield for that much. That is essentially a 600+ AoE heal, granted it is only worth casting once as the shields dont stack. I do not think it is UP it serves a purpose, you just need to learn to ST heal each person in your party faster. SCH are tank healers and WMG are raid healers. Either works fine for 4 man dungeons but when you get to endgame you will see this more plainly.

If thiey did as suggested above Alu79 that would be a great way to fix some of the issues with raid healing. On Titan HM it is extremely easy to go OOM if anyone dies or you have to do a lot of raid healing. Succor costs far to much mana as does aldoquin. They should be cut way down, maybe by 1/3.

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Originally Posted by Alpheus

I'm surprised they didn't keep the relationship that SCH and WHM had from FFXI

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I'm not. Because they are 2 completely different games, with different staff and development team. Chipotle is owned by McDonalds...why doesn't Chipotle have a Big Mac? Oh, that's right...same company...different goals. If everyone keeps asking for this to be just like XI. Why would anyone have a reason to play the other one so the company can still make a profit from them?

So, the problem is that Pre-succor shield + Sacred soil + Succor after damage + pet regen is not as much as medica or medica 2?

Yes, SCH requires more casts, yes it requires pre-casting (before damage, before a whm can heal group damage, anyway)... yes it requires pet management.

Aoll of this is by design. When you chose a healer that had abilities split with a pet, you should have known there would be a tradeoff. Yoshi stated in a letter that whms would be more versatile.

Yes, whm is more efficient in they have fewer tools that are more powerful raw healing. That is what you sign up for when you choose a class that has heals split with a pet as well as uses shield mechanics. You can't play a SCH like a whm, because it's not one and doesn't work the same way.

Pet mechanics need to be fixed, other than that- working as intended.

When you effectively use your tools to prevent damage, it is very noticeable... and you reduce risk of people dying by incidental small damage items. WHMs get health up faster overall, but incur risk of death by allowing health to drop to very low levels.

I don't know why I keep seeing SCH posts comparing a single spell from one class to another and ignoring all the other SCH tools that go into balancing.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

then while a SCH is almost useless against heavy AoE, it has almost nothing that a WHM cant do.

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I get your one shield spell alone isn't massive, but you also get SS along with pet spells. It sounds to me like you are trying to play as disc and ignoring your pet. Maybe the bad pet AI is just too big of a hurdle for your style. If you want to see big numbers, then maybe play whm...

Yoshi said in the dev letter the whm would be more versatile. It shouldn't be a shock. Basically, any pet class (healer or otherwise) should reasonably expect to work twice as hard to achieve the same results... see WoW warlock. It's just the design of balancing two of one class against one of another class. (SCH is definitely behind once damage hits- but you played disc, so you know that is expected- disc couldn't raise health like holy, either)

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

So, the problem is that Pre-succor shield + Sacred soil + Succor after damage + pet regen is not as much as medica or medica 2?

Yes, SCH requires more casts, yes it requires pre-casting (before damage, before a whm can heal group damage, anyway)... yes it requires pet management.

Aoll of this is by design. When you chose a healer that had abilities split with a pet, you should have known there would be a tradeoff. Yoshi stated in a letter that whms would be more versatile.

Yes, whm is more efficient in they have fewer tools that are more powerful raw healing. That is what you sign up for when you choose a class that has heals split with a pet as well as uses shield mechanics. You can't play a SCH like a whm, because it's not one and doesn't work the same way.

Pet mechanics need to be fixed, other than that- working as intended.

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I really don't understand why whm are having such a hard time understanding the issue. SCH's are LITERALLY only asking for pet mechanics to be fixed and their effects to be revisited, and the ability to heal a group who has ALREADY suffered dmg. That is it, literally. Why then are whm's coming out in droves? And why do they keep harping on succor has a shield? We know it has a shield, your point? AoE inc, preshield -> group takes more dmg than shield absorbs time to bring groups health up so what are my options? recast succor and..? recast succor? This is our issue atm, we can't recast succor on same target cause it really doesn't heal for much and it is a waste of mana and shielding.

We need an aoe option when succor isn't needed like we have Physick for when Adlo isn't needed and working pet mechanics. That is all we are asking for. That's it. Seriously guys, that's it.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

I really don't understand why whm are having such a hard time understanding the issue.

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I understand the issue. It's why I rolled whm first.

I didn't want my power split with a pet. I didn't want to rely on shielding, I wanted raw heal. I didn't want the large toolbox, I wanted the simpler toolbox with more powerful spells.

I get the issue. The problem is that this was all part of the decision, and many scholars are refusing to accept the package they chose and want it changed now. Anyone can just level another class. Just level whm, you will keep your scholar- you won't lose anything.

-Although another idea is a new ability called "Overpower" that would blow up the pet for a medica ranged heal for like 400 potency or something with a 45-90 sec CD. That would give scholars a little burst to work with for a tradeoff. With quickcast, the SCH could alternate detonating pets. That would reduce the penalty on additional scholars.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I understand the issue. It's why I rolled whm first.

I didn't want my power split with a pet. I didn't want to rely on shielding, I wanted raw heal. I didn't want the large toolbox, I wanted the simpler toolbox with more powerful spells.

I get the issue. The problem is that this was all part of the decision, and many scholars are refusing to accept the package they chose and want it changed now. Anyone can just level another class. Just level whm, you will keep your scholar- you won't lose anything.

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Because we are saying it is an incomplete, faulty or unfinished package and the clueless chime in to say its fine, it's good enough, just play with a whm who isn't broken, they'll carry you.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I get your one shield spell alone isn't massive, but you also get SS along with pet spells. It sounds to me like you are trying to play as disc and ignoring your pet. Maybe the bad pet AI is just too big of a hurdle for your style. If you want to see big numbers, then maybe play whm...

Yoshi said in the dev letter the whm would be more versatile. It shouldn't be a shock. Basically, any pet class (healer or otherwise) should reasonably expect to work twice as hard to achieve the same results... see WoW warlock. It's just the design of balancing two of one class against one of another class. (SCH is definitely behind once damage hits- but you played disc, so you know that is expected- disc couldn't raise health like holy, either)

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Pet can only spot heal, or do blanket AoE which lasts for 20s on a 1min CD, which is frankly ridiculous. If the pet's AoE is meant to stabilize the group after 2 succors, it would need drastically reduced CD and NOT locked down during my cast. I dont mind hardwork, I puporsely leveled SCH first afterall, but at least please reward me effort reasonably. And pet AI is indeed too much of a hindrance - thats why in all of my posts I always asked to fix pet AI first, then improve shield stacking issue - not a stronger succor or a copy of medica 1.

On disc: disc cant do as much HP as holy, but its shield is way more stronger than in this game, and NOT tied to a stupid heal so I can pick what is most suitable for the situation. Also, while its hard (not imposible) to AoE with disc, it is compensated by one of the best single heal in that game: Penance. As it is right now, WHM can do everything a SCH can do save for sacred soil, while a pitty shield leaving SCH nothing to balance it out.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

Pet can only spot heal, or do blanket AoE which lasts for 20s on a 1min CD, which is frankly ridiculous. If the pet's AoE is meant to stabilize the group after 2 succors, it would need drastically reduced CD and NOT locked down during my cast. I dont mind hardwork, I puporsely leveled SCH first afterall, but at least please reward me effort reasonably. .

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I agree. They certainly need to make pet abilities toggleable, and you should be able to give pet commands whle casting. Also, check out the idea I posted above for extra burst. I also think there should be a "focus" command for pet, so they only pay attention to a target of your choosing (like the tank), so you can toggle off all but single heals, and you can set your pet on that target and not worry about it, then trigger the AE to hit the melee group.

The class does have issues. I am not opposed to fixing them in the right way. Blanket buffs aren't the solution, imo. The pet must be fixed. Additional power, imo should come through pet synergy to maintain the class distinction and design.

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Originally Posted by Mazdryk1

Really? Really? My AOE "Succor" heals for a whopping 161 and the lowest hp in the group is 1600 (level 42). This is total crap. It needs to have no shield and have a potency of 600 like WHM or give out fairy another AOE spell.

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I cant help but lul at this. Why do so many of you cry over trivial matters?

"Succor" is not meant to be a MAIN HEAL. WHM are AoE healers....thus, their AoE heals hit harder. You as a SCH are a single-target burst healer. Are WHM are little unbalanced right now? Sure, why not. Does that mean SCH are bad healers? Only if you don't understand your class. Heck, I use my AoE heal in dungeons maybe 3 times? If DPS are pulling, either your Tank is terrible or your DPS are not attacking the correct target. #learntomarktargets.

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"Succor" is not meant to be a MAIN HEAL

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If three or more targets take more then 150 potency of damage then succor is worth it potency wise.

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dungeons

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Who cares? you could heal dungeons naked. Se need to balance around endgame . Titan hm, coil and incoming crystal tower.

I really want to see 2 sch try and heal turn 4 enrage with a normal geared party. Because 2 whm can, easily .

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Originally Posted by NRhodes

snip

"Succor" is not meant to be a MAIN HEAL. WHM are AoE healers....thus, their AoE heals hit harder. You as a SCH are a single-target burst healer. Are WHM are little unbalanced right now? Sure, why not. Does that mean SCH are bad healers? Only if you don't understand your class. Heck, I use my AoE heal in dungeons maybe 3 times? If DPS are pulling, either your Tank is terrible or your DPS are not attacking the correct target. #learntomarktargets.

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^^^This^^

We are tank heals for raid purposes. I see Succor as more of a support skill, you can precast it to apply a shield to buffer burst damage on the DPS/Raid. We are fine for all of the dungeon content now. I can heal AK in my sleep. But at endgame we are going to be tank heals only and WMG are really good at AoE heals, we work together very well as I can shield stuff to buffer damage to make the WHM more effective. I really enjoy this style of play, many maybe dont and they should roll WMG.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

If three or more targets take more then 150 potency of damage then succor is worth it potency wise.



Who cares? you could heal dungeons naked. Se need to balance around endgame . Titan hm, coil and incoming crystal tower.

I really want to see 2 sch try and heal turn 4 enrage with a normal geared party. Because 2 whm can, easily .

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http://www.twitch.tv/lleuca/c/2927614

Mind you, this is a NON-LEGACY server, there gear at best is Darklight, with 1 mythology piece + whatever allagan drops they received on the previous floors. I wont deny I feel WHM/SCH is the best combo for turn 4 followed by x2 WHM if you can't get the SCH, but it is indeed possible to heal through enrage with x2 SCH and in what I would actually called a under geared party compared to the majority of those who have cleared turn 4 up to this point.

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Originally Posted by Ruprect

^^^This^^

But at endgame we are going to be tank heals only and WMG are really good at AoE heals, we work together very well as I can shield stuff to buffer damage to make the WHM more effective. I really enjoy this style of play, many maybe dont and they should roll WMG.

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I don't think it is fair to say that with large raids, 3 out of 4 healers should default to whm, with one SCH tank healer. That is, unless tank healing will require 2 healers. My prior suggestion for a skill called "overpower" would help reduce the penalty for taking 3 scholars and 1 whm, if that is what you had available. It would take more coordination, but would be more workable.

While I don't feel the SCH class is UP... the pets are broken, and I do feel like the conflicting shield mechanics are poorly designed to accomodate multiple SCHs. I think those can be addressed without bblanket buffs, though.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I don't think it is fair to say that with large raids, 3 out of 4 healers should default to whm, with one SCH tank healer. That is, unless tank healing will require 2 healers. My prior suggestion for a skill called "overpower" would help reduce the penalty for taking 3 scholars and 1 whm, if that is what you had available. It would take more coordination, but would be more workable.

While I don't feel the SCH class is UP... the pets are broken, and I do feel like the conflicting shield mechanics are poorly designed to accomodate multiple SCHs. I think those can be addressed without bblanket buffs, though.

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I agree there is never a reason to take more than 1 SCH. The pet is broken but the AI is ok, and the shield mechanic is completely not effective with 2+ SCH. I like the idea of the shields stacking, but this overpower ability would not work. The fairy is far to valuable to destroy, the re-summon cast is far to long and you need to save swiftcast for battle res.

The SCH was designed to heal alongside a WHM. You will not be able to 2 SCH heal Titan or any fight in bahamuts Coil. Succor is perfectly balanced stop looking at it as a way to restore everyones HP Back to full. The most beneficial way a SCH can heal is with a crit build. Crit a succor and your team will not be taking dmg for quite some time. succor pluse sacred soil gives you your faerie and your fellow WHM plenty of time to heal everyone through.
at 50 with decent gear my succor heals for roughly 350. that includes a 350 bubble. You are giving your team 350 extra health. Medica two can never increase the amount of hp your team has. lets look at garudas Aoe as she breaks the rocks. at my level Succor plus Sacred Soil my team takes less than 300 Damage. Titan stomps - succor over and over doesn't raise everyone's hp but it stops the next stomp hitting so hard.

While I see the complaints about it (I'm a scholar) we have 2 advantages over White Mage:
1) We can get MP back really really fast.
2) While we are getting our MP back for more AOE heals, the fairy can continue spamming her heals on everyone without any MP cost.

For white mages, they do their AOE heal, yes it does a great healing BUT now they're short on MP so they really have to time their healing correctly. If you are the kind who likes to spam heals any time any place, then its good that the AOE heal is low or else scholars would be ridiculously overpowered. If they had the same heal potency as white mage along with all the MP regeneration/MP saving options, who would even play a white mage? Personally I'm a heal spammer and I like for it to be available at any time so I prefer scholar but for those who want to give a big heal every once in a while then you should probably play a white mage.

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Originally Posted by Ruprect

I like the idea of the shields stacking, but this overpower ability would not work. The fairy is far to valuable to destroy, the re-summon cast is far to long and you need to save swiftcast for battle res.

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Well, that's just it- if the fairy really is that valuable, then people need to stop discounting it in the conversation. To get big heals like a whm, you have to sacrifice. Whms don't have pets. That means the tradeoff is relevant. You can get that big burst heal, but you will need to give something up -temporarily- in return. If the pet is too precious to give up for that big heal... then you must not really *need* that heal.

Quickcast is a pretty low CD... not using the big heal to save for the QC rezz is questionable. Other healers can handle the rezz also, it wouldn't be something you would necessarily need to be doing constantly, so having the QC down once in a while shouldn't be catastrophic.

It's all about tradeoffs... and what you are willing to give up for what you want. You can't just get something for nothing, you know.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

snip
It's all about tradeoffs... and what you are willing to give up for what you want. You can't just get something for nothing, you know.

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What does a WHM give up to be able to cast an AoE heal that has a lower mana cost than a SCH and heals for twice as much and is spammable because there is no shield associated with it. Succor is good for one cast that is it until the shied falls off. The fairy has an AoE hot on a very long CD. It's single target is where it excels. There is no circumstance that it is even ok to take 2 SCH. That is why i suggest that the shields stack up to a certain point. Unless SE only wanted there to be 1 SCH in a group? SE did say that a WHM would be more versatile, so maybe that is the case. I dont have a problem with the SCH at all being a tank healer and an AoE support at the same time. I am fine with the SCH as is. I was just pointing out that a simple change would be to stack shields up to maybe 4 stacks making it useful to have more than 1 SCH in the group, the only problem with stacking shield as that Adloquin does hit pretty hard and put a relatively large shield on the tank if that could stack with another SCH that tank would never take damage so I guess it would have to be for succor only..

Your AOE heals are as crappy for you as our shield (Stoneskin) is for us! If white mage is so godly, then... play white mage. Square WON'T make you stronger they will nerf White Mage... that is how these companies do it.

White Mage will always always always be main healers in final fantasy games - that is the history of it and the future. Remember, you can always pick a real DPS class, we can not - that is part of the trade off.

We trade off stronger sheilding spells for stronger AOE spells. You trade off stronger aoe spells for stronger shielding.

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Originally Posted by Ruprect

I am fine with the SCH as is. I was just pointing out that a simple change would be to stack shields up to maybe 4 stacks making it useful to have more than 1 SCH in the group.

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Whm gives up mitigation, doesn't have a pet to heal mana free on the move... has less mana return, doesn't have the smart healing component of direct heals via fairy.

Stacking shields up to 4 times? You don't think that would triviliaze mechanics?

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Whm gives up mitigation, doesn't have a pet to heal mana free on the move... has less mana return, doesn't have the smart healing component of direct heals via fairy.

Stacking shields up to 4 times? You don't think that would triviliaze mechanics?

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You are not giving up mana return our equivalent AoE cost 90 mana more than yours and heals for less so the difference is made up by aetherflow. Pets heals are on a long cd and we only have one single target heal with a 400 potency. Our other st heal cost as much as succor almost and heals for half of your equivalent and that is including the shield. I am not arguing that WHM is better than SCH I think they are pretty well balanced. Try a SCH and tell me you want more than 1 in your group.

All I am saying is that exploding the fairy for 400 potency heal is not gonna make having 2 SCH in your group worth while. Maybe a 550 potency heal and 100 potency hot for blowing up the fairy would work, as re summoning the fairy is a 6 sec deal so the overpower would be a one shot oh shit deal. And no I do not think it would screw up mechanics. Having the shield stack on Succor only would make our AoE heal on par with a WMG's.

Tell me a SCH could do this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Titan-for-Tots!

I WMG solo healing titan.

I don't want more than one Scholar. White mage and scholar were intended to work best together. YES you CAN do stuff more easily with two white mage than with two scholars, because Conjuror's only real job is healing - so of course it is the more powerful healer. Arcanist has a choice of two jobs - healer or dps, so they are not as strong healer - Conjuror has only one choice in advanced jobs - white mage. While not a Square employee, I would guess that is how they intended it to be. I do agree with some other forum posts that they should make the pet UI better.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Sure you did. Why mention Cure II being free at all then?

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Do not put words in my mouth

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5% more than WHM's cure II proc.

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Yeah... because WHMs only cure once every 30 seconds.

Either way, irrelevant. That's not the point of this thread.

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I can throw around with ellipses as well: Situational. Enough to save you from AoE. Choice between 10% damage reduction to whole party/charge MP/60% heal for one party member. Also, Lustrate has lower recast time than WHM's Benediction, even if it's 40% less potent.

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It won't save you from AOE that's intended to kill via one-shot, and it's not needed to survive through AOEs that shouldn't.

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If you want to just spam things, you're better off with WHM anyway.

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You're doing the words-in-mouth thing again. Where did I say I want to spam sacred soil?

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Excuse for what exactly?

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The MP restraint excuse. You said WHMs are more likely to run out of MP. Reality is, you should always have at least one bard given how popular and powerful they are.

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The shield mechanics are fine. You cast Adloquium on the tank; Cast Succor on the party; the stronger shield on tank stays intact (no effect). However recasting Succor on the whole party will reset/update the shield. It would have been ridiculous otherwise.

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I said the shield mechanics are fine numerous times.

What I did say is having the shield mechanics + succor as the only choice of AOE healing is bad.

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You keep throwing this around without actually explaining how you think the shields work. How about we start from there?

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I know how the shields work. Do you?

I have a hard time believing you play SCH at this point.

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I don't really get what you want for SCH to be honest. I don't think the fairy makes up for medica 2 as well, but you do have the advantage of being able to heal two targets at the same time...

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Tell that to someone else. I'm more likely to chastise someone not micro-managing the fairy.

A SCH can efficiently heal 2 people at once. A WHM can efficiently heal 8 people to full in 2-3 spells. Succor alone for AOE healing is bad.

Need I spell it out even more?

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Which isn't a bad thing. Class stacking is silly.

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Yet double WHM is what we have now.

So should we petition for nerfing stacking regen instead?

People are so adamant against giving SCHs a humble buff on the grounds of 'class stacking is silly', it's almost like they'd rather see WHMs get brought down a peg instead, because WHMx2 as arguably just as good as, or even better than SCH+WHM.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

Your AOE heals are as crappy for you as our shield (Stoneskin) is for us! If white mage is so godly, then... play white mage. Square WON'T make you stronger they will nerf White Mage... that is how these companies do it.

White Mage will always always always be main healers in final fantasy games - that is the history of it and the future. Remember, you can always pick a real DPS class, we can not - that is part of the trade off.

We trade off stronger sheilding spells for stronger AOE spells. You trade off stronger aoe spells for stronger shielding.

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Here, let me make it bold for you. You dont have to be butthurt that much when SCHs asking for imrovement. No, the shield is crappy, but dont tell people otherwise (even though there were plenty of post pointing it out in this very thread). And no, we cant fking swap to SMN to start topping DPS chart, the game doesnt work that way. I have to allot stats for it, gear for it, its not magically grown on tree for me to pick.

Both of your points are pure crap. Just admit it: you rolled WHM to be main healer, so you dont want any SCH to compete that precious spot of yours, hehe.

lol what EVERYONE is missing is this: Scholar is not SUPPOSED to be as powerful as White Mage - not with direct healing anyway. White mage is... well white mage! Haven't you ever played a Final Fantasy game before? White Mages were healing GODS! I can't believe im saying this, but, Working as intended!

CURE V - swoon!

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lol what EVERYONE is missing is this: Scholar is not SUPPOSED to be as powerful as White Mage - not with direct healing anyway. White mage is... well white mage! Haven't you ever played a Final Fantasy game before? White Mages were healing GODS! I can't believe im saying this, but, Working as intended!

CURE V - swoon!

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yeah, yeah, I heard you. Now kindly shower upon us the holy text stating so.

No?

Since its doesnt exist.

Now get out of here, troll. You and your pathetic kind isnt welcome here. Fortunately this forum has standard ignore function :)

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

lol what EVERYONE is missing is this: Scholar is not SUPPOSED to be as powerful as White Mage - not with direct healing anyway. White mage is... well white mage! Haven't you ever played a Final Fantasy game before? White Mages were healing GODS! I can't believe im saying this, but, Working as intended!

CURE V - swoon!

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Unfounded entitlement. Check.