As LVL 50 in all DOH/DOL - stop now it's a waste of time

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Ilvl70 accessories are best in slot for pretty much every class except tanks(I think). 600 HP over ilvl 90 rings and a DPS increase or slightly less DPS(i think increase)make them so much better it's not even a contest. Ilvl 70 armor is best in slot for almost all classes in numerous slots(except tanks) and ilvl 55 gear is better than darklight in numerous slots for a lot of classes(except tanks). The only useless crafting gear is weapons because relic/relic +1's are too easy/quick to get and too powerful for how easy they are to acquire.

Hilariously enough, the craft you say is the only useful one, cooking, is the most useless BY FAR. The only craft more useless is alchemy. They REALLY need to fix consumables in this game, they're too expensive and far too weak.

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Show off all the ilvl70 crafted gear you grinded or paid out the ass for then :/

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Originally Posted by Reika

Show off all the ilvl70 crafted gear you grinded or paid out the ass for then :/

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Hey I'm not saying it's worth it, I figured that out for myself. I'm saying it slightly better but the costs are far too high for the increase. It's kind of like food, the stats are nice and it's helpful and increases your performance by a decent amount, but the cost of the materials, shards, and time required makes it completely not worth it.

It's like they designed everything in this game to be incredibly easy and accessible and take almost no time, except for crafting. They instead made crafting as grindy as they possibly could.

You can't deny the fact the ilvl70 crafted accessories and some of the armor is indeed BIS for a lot of classes in certain slots, especially the accessories because of the +600 HP you'd get from melding them(HUGE for DPS...that's like a 17% HP increase). It just isn't worth all the time and effort to do it.

If you really have every single crafting profession. maxed out already I think the joke might be on you. There's not that many games out there where crafting ever is better then running dungeons, its usually alternatives for those that would rather spend money, or an aid, not a full blown replacement, nor should it ever be.

If crafting would create Allagan gear then all it would take is scrubby mc scrub buying some gil from a gilseller and then buying all his progress.

No thanks

Well thats spoken like a true WoW player. Probably the same way Yoshida and friends are thinking tho. Maybe they are hoping for more people like you Drakkan, those that enter the game from mmos where crafting has and always will be shit. or maybe they are waiting for us 1.0 crafting vets to change our minds or settle for that other mmo shit should they change it into it. Only time will tell, but for now crafting is bust.

False that crafted gear couldn't or shouldn't be the best in the game tho. Someone takes the time to level all these things AND still has to run the dungeons anyway, should be able to come out with better than mere dropped, bottom line. I have been saying this to them since the beginning of 1.0, but they do foolishly decide that crafting should stay weaker than dropped, then this 180 day sub is the last they are going to get from me. I didn't start playing XiV so I can play another full blown WoW clone. I can just go back to WoW and play a game that doesn't have retarded built-in lag. Can probably blame the 85.2% of idiots who voted yes.... In any case, they have 180 days to speak up.

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Originally Posted by Drakkan

If you really have every single crafting profession. maxed out already I think the joke might be on you. There's not that many games out there where crafting ever is better then running dungeons, its usually alternatives for those that would rather spend money, or an aid, not a full blown replacement, nor should it ever be.

If crafting would create Allagan gear then all it would take is scrubby mc scrub buying some gil from a gilseller and then buying all his progress.

No thanks

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Leave thread.

100% agree with Reika. I am so pissed right now that. Every new MMO comes out and they are trying some new ideas. Then the crowd hits and all they want is a new WoW clone. WHY?! I like WoW i really do. But I have played that game for so many years. I want something new. Even a little bit. FF XIV was not advertised as something new BUT it was advertised as a good crafting game with a working economy!

Yoshi-P: "In most MMORPGs, you have crafters and gatherers that support and build the economy of an MMO. The gatherers will gather the material and the crafters will take the materials and they're craft things. But to make sure that gatherer and crafters have things to create, you need content that uses these things. You need to create a demand for those items." - I am still waiting for them to deliver but I will not be waiting with me subscripsion on. When free month is done so am I.

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Originally Posted by Drakkan

If you really have every single crafting profession. maxed out already I think the joke might be on you. There's not that many games out there where crafting ever is better then running dungeons, its usually alternatives for those that would rather spend money, or an aid, not a full blown replacement, nor should it ever be.

If crafting would create Allagan gear then all it would take is scrubby mc scrub buying some gil from a gilseller and then buying all his progress.

No thanks

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Crafting has never been about creating endgame gear. Crafting has always been about making money and also having a higher quality of life during the level 1-50 grind and parts of endgame. You talk about endgame gear, well wouldn't it be nice to have gear to get you to endgame gear?

It's amazing that you can't understand such a simple concept.

I am totally with the OP on this. I started playing XIV cause it was different than the other "smash/grind" dungeons cause of the robust crafting and gathering system they had in place back in 1.0.

I am sorry, but I worked my @$$ off to grind most of my DOL/DOHs to 50 in 1.0 just to see what kind of state SE made gathering and crafting?! Wish I could get those hours of grinding back...

More to the point, look at the costs coke/potash/ect/ect. hell for half that I can get darklight which at the end of the day is roughly the same. Now explain to me why I should put double the work to get the same outcome?

Simple solution, keep the raid gear no trade (hell, make it better than crafted for all I care cause I am not wasting my time crafting end game gear,) but allow people who spent hours on end be rewarded for this investment. Let me, as a crafter/gatherer, make the raid drops better than others who simply just ground their way upto 50 quickly.

SE you got 30 days post free month to do some worth-while balancing and not just some fluff BS.

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Originally Posted by Vyniea

Wrong.

I got my alchemist from 32 to 50 is 7 hours.

I don't think it's even POSSIBLE to do so as fast on a DoW/M, even by spamming fates at the fastest rate possible.

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This :P levequests for crafting is WAY better than levequests for battle classes.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

Comparing the gear isn't pointless because it shows how little crafting means in this game as it currently stands. Why craft when the max craft is ilvl 70 when the max gear in the game is ilvl 90. "To run the dungeons until you get your gear." Oh really because I thought darklight armor will do that just fine and it doesn't cost 3000+ tomes to craft a pair of pants for my scholar. (2 vanya silk and 1 hard hippogryph leather) Utter waste of time. Also any of you alchemists making hi-elixers with the 9 sulfur it takes for one use? Great crafting planning SE.

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They should just add mats needed for crafted ilvl90 gear to the same dungeon/raid that drops ilvl 90 gear and then put in crafted recipes that require the mats. Or are you suggesting that because you lvled a crafter(s) to 50 you should be able to wander out into Mor Dhona and gather all your ilvl90 mats yourself and make gear that is as good as ilvl90 raid gear? Cause if you are.... wow.

I'm not saying its perfect but at least be a little clearer about what you expect.

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Originally Posted by Maroite

Or are you suggesting that because you lvled a crafter(s) to 50 you should be able to wander out into Mor Dhona and gather all your ilvl90 mats yourself and make gear that is as good as ilvl90 raid gear?

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Of course not. You should be able to gather mats like that only if you leveled a *gatherer* to 50.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

Of course not. You should be able to gather mats like that only if you leveled a *gatherer* to 50.

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Yeah and got 8-24 gathers of similar gear/lvl together and then you should only be able to gather so much per attempt and X amount per week.

I'd be ok with that.

Oh and only one gatherer would actually get an item! And it would be random! And they can't be traded.

HQ T2 syths are good vs DL gear....

If crafting isn't relevant the entire way through, its not relevant. Furniture isn't going to change that.

Anyone trying to act like crafted gear should be this arduous time gated process is also a moron.

Where the hell do you think Materia that gets slotted in that gear comes from? By breaking that gear.

IMO I think they should add 1 piece of equipment thats just below or equal to end game gear in each craft. for ex carpanter could have a bow/lance but they would have to farm X mob to get the recipe to drop but your DoH/Dol class would have to be y lever for it to drop and the mats would be hard to obtain...I think that would be awesome and would give ppl reason to level DoH and DoL classes

What I'd like to see are a system where NO weapon is the end-all-be-all best weapon in the game, and same with armor. I know they aren't similar games at all, but take Dark Souls for example. There are tons of different armors, weapons, shields, etc. that are ALL viable for endgame PvP, depending on what you're looking for in terms of effect and how skilled you are at using them. You could be a light-armored, squishy glass cannon with a DK greataxe, or a heavyweight spellcaster who can take brutal damage but only dish out so-so melee spell damage, and eeeeeeverything in between. You can get equal damage from a thief's beginning dagger as the Moonlight Sword if you can use it right and level it right.

Er . . . tl;dr I'd like there to be variations of the "best" armor that better suits a playstyle of each class rather than one-size-fits-all endgame where ALL tanks look the same, ALL casters, etc. Of course, with the way the game is set up, I dunno how that'd work right now, but that's what creativity is for, right? :D

I think the casual friendly nature of this game is the biggest reason that crafting is broken. You level so quickly in this game that spending gil on an HQ piece is pointless because that piece will get replaced by a quest reward within the next 5-10 levels which you can achieve in a matter of hours. Furthermore, Level Sync allows players to play any content below their level without having to re-gear to avoid running "naked". Finally, most of the content that I've seen thus far isn't all that difficult unless you are severely undergeared. As such, there really is no need to buy any of your gear from 1-50 and therefore crafted gears take a large hit from lack of demand. Unfortunately, I don't believe it is possible to fix this issue without a change in direction from the developers.

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Originally Posted by Starfox71rt

I think the casual friendly nature of this game is the biggest reason that crafting is broken. You level so quickly in this game that spending gil on an HQ piece is pointless because that piece will get replaced by a quest reward within the next 5-10 levels which you can achieve in a matter of hours.

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I agree but most of these issues could be fixed if they scaled fates increasing difficulty as more people join and if they buffed dungeon exp. Those two changes will at least create more of a demand for crafting HQ gear.

I guess when housing will be out and people will start looking for furniture, lv50 crafters will have some ways to make nice money from people who will just throw gils to equip their house

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I guess when housing will be out and people will start looking for furniture, lv50 crafters will have some ways to make nice money from people who will just throw gils to equip their house

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Probably but I am not quite sure how much gil the average player has thanks to all the taxes and repairs, and low gil creation. Then the question is how much gil gets removed from the economy when those who do hold the gil start buying houses?

Finally, the question is how useful the house is? Crafting in your house isn't all that useful when crafting itself isn't useful.

Because the solution of 'make a fun game that people want to play because they WANT TO PLAY IT' is far too difficult and demanding when the demon of 'make a grindfest of treadmills and hope people do them because their e-peens must touch the sky' is so easy.

You don't even have to make a good game. Just set up a series of time-exhaustive treadmills (See: Skinner Box) and make them subscribe for the privilege of doing things they don't actually enjoy because they DO enjoy the thought of being 'finished'/'done'/'accomplished' with it.

Release new treadmill every 4-6 months; call it content. Anyroad, crafting on here doesn't seem much different than crafting in any other MMO: its a gateway drug to what they desperately hope will become raid addiction, because they're still trying to replicate WoW's success under the graphics and variegated nomenclature SE prefers.

Raise your hand if you'd like to play a Final Fantasy game, not World of Craftercraft or Raidcraft?

Why would "the average player" have gil to spend for furniture? Most players that I know are pretty broke after spending the leveling money on the relic materia and the AK repairs.

Everyone keeps saying "oh when housing will come, we will get rich because everyone will want to get furniture and stuff for the house".
Yea... right.

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

Raise your hand if you'd like to play a Final Fantasy game, not World of Craftercraft or Raidcraft?

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*Raises hand*

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

Raise your hand if you'd like to play a Final Fantasy game, not World of Craftercraft or Raidcraft?

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*raises both hands including the ones in my head*

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

Raise your hand if you'd like to play a Final Fantasy game, not World of Craftercraft or Raidcraft?

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Sigh, we can only dream. *Raises hand*

Crafting wouldn't be such a waste if it had a purpose beyond making materials for other crafters to use to level crafting.

i.e. gear and weapons and tools. If gear/weapons/tools weren't handed out so bloody easily on every single damned quest, for every class, then we may have something that people desired.

Perfect example: I came back with my ALC already nearly 50. I do all the class quests and get handed every single tool/offhand i needed through some fairly easy class quests. I secured my Luminary alembic in 1.0 only to realise i get a bloody Blue one which matches it stat-for-stat at level 50 ALC quest (which took me 5 minutes). So any armourers who, say wanted to make Alembics for ALCs, have absolutely no use in making Alembics.

This can be applied to every single craft which makes any tool/offhand. A similar thing is applied to every single craft which makes gear/weapons.

The only market is for HQ versions, but then people don't want to pay for them, because you can outlevel them so fast.

Add to that the nerfed as hell materia, so people are even reluctant to soulbind/convert gear for currently mainly useless materia.

In short: There is no incentive to recycle gear, make gear, or buy/sell gear!

I agree, I don't understand why we're given out free infinite decent gear leveling up basically anything in the game 1-50. The only crafted gear that's useful is HQ gear for crafters and gatherers because fates exist, dungeon drops are better, you get free GC weapons every 10 levels(I feel sorry for carpenter/blacksmiths..) and relics are a joke to obtain and +1. You're just constantly handed out infinite free gear leveling up a battle job so you never need to go buy some crafted stuff, and since it only lasts a few levels, those levels zoom by instantly, and you can just pick up GC/quest reward/dungeon gear, there's no reason to even think about bothering with it as a battle job.


Cross linking my post here, but I think it would've been better if they designed the game something like this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...gned-like-this

It would make crafters and gatherers very useful and wanted for end game. Hell, all parts of the game if dungeons ONLY dropped tattered gear the entire time, and quest rewards didn't give out gear and GC gear didn't exist, but that might be too extreme for the "intended" MMO audience now.

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

Raise your hand if you'd like to play a Final Fantasy game, not World of Craftercraft or Raidcraft?

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HAND! This is so annoying. Every MMO is trying to be like WoW and if they not the large part of community demands them to be. Go play WoW guys if you want WoW. I came here for crafting cause guess what? Everything else is just like WoW.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

It would make crafters and gatherers very useful and wanted for end game. Hell, all parts of the game if dungeons ONLY dropped tattered gear the entire time, and quest rewards didn't give out gear and GC gear didn't exist, but that might be too extreme for the "intended" MMO audience now.

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Craftered HQ gear is better than Dungoen drops for theemost. But at end game it is better to just go for the raid drops.

But the problem does lie in with fates and materia caps. If they scaled fates to be more difficult as more people joined (not to mention buff dungeon exp) then people would have a reason to purchase crafted HQ gear. Plus there's also a matter of lack of gil generation and over taxation.

Just to chime in..

1. The game would have more use for gear if we were allowed to change equipment mid-fight. Some games it's worth your time to macro in XXX shoes or XXX cap for a certain skill. As an extreme example, in XI, you could have as many as 5 complete sets in use if you were really into endgame. While it took a long time to get those, it was by no means necessary; it was just icing on the cake for the elitists. In a game where you are essentially restricted to choosing one OR the other, you lose the need to obtain varied gear.

2. If the "best in slot" items took longer to get, we wouldn't have this conversation. Crafting would become the "normal" gear, and there would be an economy, while endgame gear would be for the dedicated players after several months. I would expect the ilvl 90 gear to be on <5% of characters this soon after launch, but just walking around in a city...

3. If gear wasn't freely handed out constantly by quests, we would have at least bought gear to make it through story dungeons.

My only problem with crafting is the road block of getting to 315+ control so I can make mailbreaker, obelisk, etc. I cannot seem to get over 280's and I can't think of any way I possibly can.

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Originally Posted by Ramzal

My only problem with crafting is the road block of getting to 315+ control so I can make mailbreaker, obelisk, etc. I cannot seem to get over 280's and I can't think of any way I possibly can.

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Whaaaaaaat? HQ gear, materia melds, and food; simple as that. You can go way waaaaaaaay over 315 (for example, my weaver is sitting on 350 control without any food), so I'm not sure how you could possibly not see how you could increase it. Salt Cod Puffs would give you +18 control (and they're not even the best control food, just probably the highest reasonably priced one), so you're not even that far off.

You're a blacksmith, so my first suggestion would be to bang out your own HQ Militia File. That would add 6 control, to put you at 286. Salt Cod Puffs puts you at 304. A mere 4 tier-3 control materia (because you probably don't want to shell out the cash for tier-4s) later and you've breached 315. And that's not even your only way to hit 315.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Whaaaaaaat? HQ gear, materia melds, and food; simple as that. You can go way waaaaaaaay over 315 (for example, my weaver is sitting on 350 control without any food), so I'm not sure how you could possibly not see how you could increase it. Salt Cod Puffs would give you +18 control (and they're not even the best control food, just probably the highest reasonably priced one), so you're not even that far off.

You're a blacksmith, so my first suggestion would be to bang out your own HQ Militia File. That would add 6 control, to put you at 286. Salt Cod Puffs puts you at 304. A mere 4 tier-3 control materia (because you probably don't want to shell out the cash for tier-4s) later and you've breached 315. And that's not even your only way to hit 315.

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Annnd that's what I get for relying on just the raw stats from the equipment. Thanks a lot, this helped. :D

What if...rather than having the actual gear drop in end-game, the items to make that gear dropped instead - which then would require hiring a crafter to complete.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Whaaaaaaat? HQ gear, materia melds, and food; simple as that. You can go way waaaaaaaay over 315 (for example, my weaver is sitting on 350 control without any food), so I'm not sure how you could possibly not see how you could increase it. Salt Cod Puffs would give you +18 control (and they're not even the best control food, just probably the highest reasonably priced one), so you're not even that far off.

You're a blacksmith, so my first suggestion would be to bang out your own HQ Militia File. That would add 6 control, to put you at 286. Salt Cod Puffs puts you at 304. A mere 4 tier-3 control materia (because you probably don't want to shell out the cash for tier-4s) later and you've breached 315. And that's not even your only way to hit 315.

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Geez how much did those materia that cost you?

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Originally Posted by Darlantan

Geez how much did those materia that cost you?

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All of my T4s came from 1.0's cracked materia exchange. It would've cost me a fortune to do that in ARR. Unfortunately, by the time I was done with WVR, I was out of cracked 4s. Same for the T3s, though I do still have some more of those. T2/1 materia wasn't too bad, all in all I probably spent a couple hundred thousand.

I have to agree. I think it's pretty much a waste of time. I made most of my cash by selling other Alchemist's the items they needed to level their Alchemy. Now that has pretty much dried up as well. Waste of time and effort, but I was lucky I made a fortune off of it because I did it early. You can make a few gil off melding but nothing you can count on.

I am glad I leveled it when I did, but if I had to start over today. I wouldn't touch crafting.

Devs are avoiding a response to crafting issues as they were same sex marriage threads.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Devs are avoiding a response to crafting issues as they were same sex marriage threads.

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There really is no crafting issues. The best gear shouldn't be able to be just bought off the AH. You should have to work for your gear which means doing end game raids. Crafting can help you make entry level gear to get started with raids which is good enough.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

There really is no crafting issues. The best gear shouldn't be able to be just bought off the AH. You should have to work for your gear which means doing end game raids. Crafting can help you make entry level gear to get started with raids which is good enough.

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Youre right. They should come in the form of materials that are dropped from end game raids, which can be turned into better than mere dropped.

Concequently, the ilvl70 crafted gear currently questioned as to why it still requres retarded amounts of grinding also requires you run the same dungeons as the ilvl70 non-crafted gear. But for some reason this same dungeon content also allows you to earn tokens for ilv90 gear, which destroys it. It would be a more than fair addition if those same tokens could also be used to purchase mats to craft ilvl90 gear. Sounds fair and logical. It was also suggested that the just make the mats and/or gear untradeable. Then you and others will have no market fears.

And there are crafter issues, you just dont care about crafters or crafting, or else youd see them.