Not thrilled about Crafting changes…

RPG... Skill... Hahaha!

I hate crafting as it is now, but I'm sort of disappointed too.

That's something that made this game interesting, the fact that you didn't ever have to fight monsters.. and with the introduction of housing (some time past 2.0?), you could seriously just work on DoH and DoL.

Maybe with the current way that crafting works, it would be better to start off with a DoW/DoM until crafting is made more interesting and that they then have more time to create an introduction for DoL/DoH (if you picked it first).

The new crafting/gathering looks awesome! You don't have to constantly tab to your web browser to search for recipes, you can chain exp on gathering, and DoH/DoL skills use mana so you're not sitting around doing nothing with your hp/mp. plus you don't have to cycle through a list of your abilities to use one, you can set them to hotkeys.

I don't see where not having to use google and not having to cycle through pages of items/abilities = less skill. It just means less wasted time slogging through a counter-intuitive UI.

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Originally Posted by Yellow

I hate crafting as it is now, but I'm sort of disappointed too.

That's something that made this game interesting, the fact that you didn't ever have to fight monsters.. and with the introduction of housing (some time past 2.0?), you could seriously just work on DoH and DoL.

Maybe with the current way that crafting works, it would be better to start off with a DoW/DoM until crafting is made more interesting and that they then have more time to create an introduction for DoL/DoH (if you picked it first).

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With 2.0 only battle classes can be choosed as starter class. To change to another class (battle, gatherer or crafter) a new char need first to do a quest to unlock the armory system.

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In A Realm Reborn, when making a new character we will be limiting the class selection choice to battle classes only. After proceeding through the tutorials your character will grow and the Armoury system will be unlocked, thus enabling you to change into a Disciple of Land or Hand class.

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As somebody who dispises the current crafting mechanics, I welcome the changes with open arms. I'm absolutely stoked! I may actually level a craft to 50 after 2.0.

Every time crafting has changed, I've hated it until I got used to...then loved it. I'm pretty sure it'll be the same way with A Realm Reborn.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

Will this open doors to botting and RMT?

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This door you speak of has long been opened, removed and demolished LONG ago. Even legit players powercraft while watching movies or playing other games. Leveling crafts now is so lame. I do feel that the changes they made involving the very difficult crafts were interesting.

I don't believe they've ever said that your experience points will accumulate when mass producing items using the new mass production method.

You may have a severe exp penalty for using automatic mass production in a similar way to how Hasty Hand currently gimps your exp.

This means that if you actually want the items mass production is there, but if you want to level up you may need to grind and do leves. Really we don't know.

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Originally Posted by Zozor

I don't believe they've ever said that your experience points will accumulate when mass producing items using the new mass production method.

You may have a severe exp penalty for using automatic mass production in a similar way to how Hasty Hand currently gimps your exp.

This means that if you actually want the items mass production is there, but if you want to level up you may need to grind and do leves. Really we don't know.

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That's what I'm really hoping they do. For XP you should definitely have to do the full crafts without mass production. However once you don't need XP anymore there's nothing worse than doing dozens of synths manually because there's no other option lol.

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Originally Posted by Slatfatf

The last round of crafting changes in retrospect were not that bad although coming from someone who loves to craft and gather I thought it was a little over simplified at first. Now it looks as if the non-crafting portion of our community has won the day. The new system appears to cater to those who don’t like to be bothered by crafting.

This has a very similar sound to the system I see in Guild Wars 2 (never played WoW, so can’t comment there), and I’ve got to admit; I don’t like it. There is no skill, no finesse to it, and its just so abstract.

Hate to pile on because a lot of folks are complaining about everything right now. I’ll still be here come 2.0, so I guess I’ll wait and see, saving my disappointment till then.


:oThe heaver the misery the greater the sense of accomplishment

:)You will never respect what you didn’t have to work for

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Being a non-crafter to say about to have my first and probably only craft to 50, I have to say the original system was pure garbage and the current system is an overall upgrade but still can be made to be 100% better and I think they are going in the right direction with it. Let's try the system out in alpha/beta before we get over critical with it as well, once you get hands on then you will truly know if it is a better system. Plus remember alpha/beta is tweaking time for them to change stuff according to feedback.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

That's what I'm really hoping they do. For XP you should definitely have to do the full crafts without mass production. However once you don't need XP anymore there's nothing worse than doing dozens of synths manually because there's no other option lol.

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Even now we have some bulk synths available, though we can only make up to 3 times the usual amount. With that system, sometimes you get to use slightly less materials (such as only 1 alumen for 3 skins instead of the usual 1 to 1 ratio, or a 9th item gets cut from 3-in-1 3 item synths like bronze bars) but you're only doing 1 synth so you only get the experience for 1 synth. That system could easily be carried over to the new crafting in bulk system, just upping the scale. I think 1 synth's worth of exp for 100 synths is a little overboard but maybe that much exp per 5-10 items? I dunno, balancing goes over my head, but the concept I'm trying to get across should be clear at least.

Looking forward to changes~

Honestly, I find crafting to be more boring (if a lot easier) than it's ever been.

Why? Because the emphasis is ALWAYS on quality & spamming the right abilities. For one thing, there are too many overlapping abilities - there's something like 4 skills that all give +50% quality for 3 turns... is that really necessary? And there's 2 or 3 that advance progress 20% - lack of creativity much? Why isn't the GSM 45 skill automatic great success for careful synthesis for 3 turns? (OP I'll admit but well, it's GSM - it only feels right to me that the class who's main emphasis is on shiny things pays the most attention to quality)

I like the idea of CP, of making us select our skills according to our needs. My only concern is with regards to the rate that CP is used up and refills; there are days where I don't craft much and then there's times where I just go on a binge.


The last point I'd like to make, is again about the emphasis on quality. Originally, you just had to focus on finishing the synth for your EXP. You could raise quality if you liked for bonus rewards on leves and/or HQ (though HQ was much more random then). I'd much rather that the EXP bonus for quality be reduced, base EXP per synth increased, and EXP per synth be increased as well on leves like it used to be. I'm an avid crafter & gatherer, but my sanity can only take it for so long. Emphasis on quality should really be for HQ and extra rewards from leves. I hate spending 3~4 minutes on what should be a 30~60 recipe to milk it for as much exp as possible.

Furthermore, it strikes me as a bit silly that HQ ingredients are pretty much mandatory even when your skill level and stats greatly exceed the recipe. A level 50 crafter shouldn't need all +1 materials to HQ a level 5 recipe for example, that's just silly. I don't have a problem with needing them for better odds, especially when the recipe is equal to or higher than your level, but I feel like having a good deal of skill should count for more.


Ah hell while I'm at it what about the guild facilities? We can still pay for support, but it doesn't do anything anymore as none of the newer recipes require it. Are there any plans to have guild support have an impact on synthesis again? One thing I always wanted in XI was to be able to pay a guild to actually use their equipment.

I think that could have potential for some cool minigames. Instead of the normal synthesis interactions, you get to use whatever tools/machinery the guild has set up (though, this would probably be too much without private instances and even then that'd be a hassle) to enhance your abilities. So instead of just my stupid little hammer and anvil, I would get to process my ores inside an actual forge.

People hate crafting and anything thats not 100% fun 100% of the time anymore, they treat gaming like you would facebook/farmville, its a social network to them, if its not fun, scrap it. The idea of hard work and accomplishment doesnt even click for them.
Sooner or later it will turn into gw2 or wow, and because you said you have no exp in wow I will inform you, you can burn a craft to cap in hours by just auto-crafting everything. You literally click the go button on an item and it will craft that 1 item almost instantly until you run out of mats in your inv. Crafting in wow is nearly worthless, the only reason people craft is because of the ability to gem your gear, if you do tailoring, you can gem cloth-type gear (aka priest gear), the crafting itself to make things is nearly worthless.

The crafting minigame was fun for a few days after launch after that is was boring and a chore to do anyone when your spamming a synth for 8 levels and doing the same thing per synth is beyond boring and this is why most people wont craft.

If its fun, everyone does it, and its worth nothing (see wow). It needs to be annoying/boring, thats the point, its called an economy. If your so "weak minded" you cant take a few hours doing something thats not 100% enjoyable, honestly you dont deserve any of the rewards that come with it. I also understand that the majority will not agree most likely because well... most of you are "those people" that just want things handed to them... as usual.

People really dont get why people like me are against any nerf, it always leads to something worse, do any of you remember how crafting was originally? It wasnt just a few pieces to make a body, you needed the sleeves/back/front, it ended up being like 7 pieces and of which most took several synths to get to, it was complicated, few did it, and those that did were rewarded. Then crafting got nerfed, and people defended it, we loved how complex it was, you made every piece of the gear, and people said those people were dumb for wanting anything in life harder.

Then it was nerfed again, and we heard the same excuses, then again, and now its happening again as basically (auto-crafting), it will end up being gw2 or wow crafting, because thats the market SE is trying to target, and they will pick and pick at crafting until you can cap any/all crafts in a day or atleast to the degree that you can currently level jobs.

The only reason FF11's crafting stayed as it was, as in few could actually get say 100 GS, is because tanaka told casuals to basically fk off, play his game or get out, yoshi does not have those kinda cojones.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

People hate crafting and anything thats not 100% fun 100% of the time anymore, they treat gaming like you would facebook/farmville, its a social network to them, if its not fun, scrap it. The idea of hard work and accomplishment doesnt even click for them.

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I would hope a game can be both fun and hard work. I already have a job so I don't want to go home and do more hard work without the pay. I quite like the crafting as it is now but there is always room for improvement.

I hope Jeronlmo is trolling or he don't know that boring and hard are not the same thing .In 1.0 the system is easy and boring .

Skill to craft? Hahahahah
Yea, hit the enter button nonstop. That requires some major skill.
The shorter the process the better.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

People really dont get why people like me are against any nerf, it always leads to something worse, do any of you remember how crafting was originally? It wasnt just a few pieces to make a body, you needed the sleeves/back/front, it ended up being like 7 pieces and of which most took several synths to get to, it was complicated, few did it, and those that did were rewarded. Then crafting got nerfed, and people defended it, we loved how complex it was, you made every piece of the gear, and people said those people were dumb for wanting anything in life harder.

Then it was nerfed again, and we heard the same excuses, then again, and now its happening again as basically (auto-crafting), it will end up being gw2 or wow crafting, because thats the market SE is trying to target, and they will pick and pick at crafting until you can cap any/all crafts in a day or atleast to the degree that you can currently level jobs.

The only reason FF11's crafting stayed as it was, as in few could actually get say 100 GS, is because tanaka told casuals to basically fk off, play his game or get out, yoshi does not have those kinda cojones.

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It's not a matter of Yoshida being scared to tell casuals to fuck off, he's just not stubborn like Tanaka was. Plus this is his game now, don't like it? Play his game or get out, as you so eloquently put it.

The original crafting system was a convoluted mess. You need to remember that this is a video game. All aspects of it SHOULD be fun. If it's not fun, why play? Taking more than half an hour to craft a single piece of gear because it had a dozen parts spanning 5 crafts is not fun, it's just a mess. I can see where Tanaka was going with the idea, or at least where I hope he was going with it, and it could have been a great system. However it was half-finished like everything else in the game and fell flat on its face.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Skill to craft? Hahahahah
Yea, hit the enter button nonstop. That requires some major skill.
The shorter the process the better.

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The shorter the process the shorter the exp, then it is alright

Another case where people think time and effort = skillzzzz

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Originally Posted by DNO

Another case where people think time and effort = skillzzzz

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Pressing enter for a week to get a level = pro player
Pressing enter for a day to get a level = newbie

Please consider how we already have this system.

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For crafting we will have something known as a crafting journal, and when you select the item you would like to make from the journal, it will be possible to confirm how many materials are necessary and select which materials you will use from the list.

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Crafting Journal, is essentially our crafting history and Recipe Rewards list already available. Of course, I expect we will have a lot more control and better (faster) access to our journal. Also, consider that in leves we can simply hit "yes/no" when crafting the next item from the same recipe. Likely it will be the same in ARR.

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Also, we will be implementing something known as CP, so as long as you have them you will be able to execute actions and craft continuously.

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Please keep in mind that while you can equip many actions, you can't use all of them or choose which actions to use. Only 5 will appear in your UI at crafting time, selected randomly. So you have a limited amount of "CP" already, limited to 5. So this action limit is already in place. I suspect that you can use more than 5 in ARR and you will be able to use an action more than once, depending on the amount of CP that you have.

Also, consider that crafting fatigue sets in at 50 synths per time period and you will be auto kicked from crafting. This is also a "CP"-like limit.

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Additionally, it will be possible to craft in mass quantities.

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We have "mass crafting" but it's currently limited by the amount of mats you can squeeze into that tiny grid. Some recipes don't have this option. I suspect there will still be a limit but it will be greatly raised in ARR.


So my conclusion is that crafting changes very little only we will have a lot more freedom to choose what we're crafting and how much of it we're crafting. Don't forget that we will have 10x better UI that will make crafting faster and less of a headache.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

People hate crafting and anything thats not 100% fun 100% of the time anymore, they treat gaming like you would facebook/farmville, its a social network to them, if its not fun, scrap it. The idea of hard work and accomplishment doesnt even click for them.
Sooner or later it will turn into gw2 or wow, and because you said you have no exp in wow I will inform you, you can burn a craft to cap in hours by just auto-crafting everything. You literally click the go button on an item and it will craft that 1 item almost instantly until you run out of mats in your inv. Crafting in wow is nearly worthless, the only reason people craft is because of the ability to gem your gear, if you do tailoring, you can gem cloth-type gear (aka priest gear), the crafting itself to make things is nearly worthless.

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With all due respect, people play video games for fun, not to have another job. What is the point in doing something for recreation when it's not fun? I can't speak for others, but I have no interest purposefully wasting my free time doing something that isn't fun. That's just idiotic. I would also point out that just because something is fun, doesn't mean it's easy, or lacking in complexity. The crafting system we got at the beginning was needlessly complex without being fun. That is just poor game design, no matter how you look at it.

I think the idea was to be able to mass produce skillup items (low difficulty) with the click of a button and when you want to HQ stuff you play the minigame. I only remember seeing him playing the minigame in the video, so I hope the former concept will still make it. Really don't want Hasty Hand to still be the way to speed craft.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The shorter the process the shorter the exp, then it is alright

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Right, which is my point. Grinding out recipes is dull as it is. I like the challenge of having to balance progress & quality, just not when I'm leveling >_<

The main reason I enjoy crafting is because I like feeling useful and being able to make stuff. The mini-game (and the horrible music that accompanies it) just starts to get on my nerves after a while. I like the level of depth and control when it comes to trying to make quality goods, but for straight up grinding EXP I liked XI better lol, if only for the speed.

It's really not hard to finish a synth successfully now, even for recipes 10 levels higher. But the game can be such a complete utter troll at the worst times when trying to raise quality and all it does is piss me off. Twice last night I came close to +1'ing my new Steel Cross-pein hammer only for the game to just randomly go "nope, fuck you". Gotta love it when you're just 1 standard away from finishing, and then the next action fails, screwing you over by 1% for seemingly no reason as every other synth has gone smoothly.

@_@ I swear I seen ppl fail HQ at 90%+ chance...

Double Down needs to die... violently

I hope the mass quantities thing is definitely true for lower level synths at least. As a Lv50 weaver, for some reason I find myself very low on cotton yarn and cloth. I have 3 stacks of bolls, yet I can bring myself to make any yarn only when I absolutely need to. O would love to turn 2 of my stacks of bolls into yarn, but making 3 yarn at a time even with hasty hand is beyond tedious. So I don't bother. I'd love some way to have low level recipes(maybe -10/-15 of your level?) be just 1 click mass produce with no HQs. If you want the craft to take a while, whatever, I'll hit craft and go AFK.

But expecting me to sit there for hours making cotton yarn at lv50 is not fun, is not a test of any skill, is not hard, it is simply frustrating and tedious. Adds nothing to the experience.

You need to look up the definition of "hard", if its not something you can do easily, that makes it hard, a 4yrs old screaming math is to hard, doesnt mean its hard for me, its hard for said 4yr old, if you think the crafting system is dumb and boring, then its hard for you. People didnt cap things like GS or BS in ff11 because it was annoying to do and cost a load of gil to lvl up, that means it was hard for people, and you cant claim anything in rl or gaming is hard if you know how to do it, its the personal perspective of something that means it hard, and from the sound of thing, alot of things are hard for you.

Crafting is not hard .Long , boring but not hard , hard is something that you can't ( or hardly ) succeed to do at the first try .It's really easy to craft items and so to get to lvl 50 .It's not hard to understand how crafting works ,it's just long and boring because you needs to craft a lot of items , and each item is very long to craft .

Sounds like its hard for you to do because its boring.

It's not hard to do for me , i just don't want to do it .

You must use a far different definition for hard than the rest of us then. Boring does not equal hard. By your reasoning, staring at a leaky faucet must constitute being hard, much like folding napkins all day. I imagine the rest of the world, would disagree with your usage.

To hell with the current crafting system. Time spent crafting does not equate to skill. While they're at it they should remove the RNG on HQing and just make it so that you instant HQ if you use all HQ mats.

Its not my fault your definition is factually wrong. Something that is hard is just a personal perspective, if you cant do it, that makes it hard, if you cant do it because its boring, your saying its hard. If it was easy for you, you would not be on here complaining.

Ok, so this:
"staring at a leaky faucet must constitute being hard, much like folding napkins all day"

If I had to stare at this leaky faucet for a long period of time, then yes, that would be hard to do, because it would be in fact, boring, other people might have a higher tolerance and it would not be hard for them depending on the time required to stare at said leaky faucet.

Folding napkins all day for anyone that has arthritis or something, that would be hard for them to do, people with short attention spans or anger problems, this would be in fact, hard to do.

Edit: A game with a long-lasting economy that revolves around crafting, cannot be for everyone, if everyone does it, its worth nothing. You cannot get around this, people need to take some economics classes or something, supply/demand, if everyone can supply, who will you sell to?