Class System Blues

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Originally Posted by fusional

go ahead and do the entire relic questline on multiple characters and then get back to me, bud.

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Not sure if you read his post.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

What I think was promising in the earlier days is the fact that rank and level were separate.
You could achieve rank 50 in all the discipline, so you didn't have to level alt character BUT your point allotment reflected what skills you play the most.

This was real multi-class, where you had to choose between versatility and specialization. Too bad the concept was flawed, and too bad the solution was "Remove the system".

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That's true. The original point allocation system was a way of letting people specialize...

So you could have someone who put all their stats into being a better tank, or a better damage dealer, or a better mage. You could still pick up any weapon and play any class, but if you set up your character for tanking you wouldn't be as good with magic as someone who set themselves up to play a mage class.

The problem was that we were allowed to re-allocate a small percentage of our points after a certain amount of time -- kind of like retraining yourself little by little. But the player base saw that as a hindrance. I know people who would spend days reallocating their points, and only then would they say "okay, let's do that run now".

Many people wanted to be able to pick up a sword and shield, and immediately be good at tanking. Or pick up a staff and immediately be a good healer. So SE threw away the old system and gave us the one we have today where you can go from STR 170 to STR 350 in a second.

It's convenient, and I don't mind it either way. But by completely throwing out that old system instead of building upon it, now we only have specialization through equipment that we either make or buy if we're rich. Well, player skill too. ^^

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Not sure if you read his post.

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good catch, i read that completely wrong. apologies ^^/

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I'm unique because of how I choose to play. Not because the game limited me to only specific options.

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This about sums it up.

Personally, I love how I can level every class/job on my single character. It means I don't have to pay for the same thing on multiple different characters (or fighting the same boss over and over for unique/untradeables) and it also means that Square-Enix have licence to make some fights more suitable to certain classes than others. I long for the day (although I imagine others dread it if they haven't leveled multiple jobs >_>) they make certain bosses resistant to certain types of attacks, meaning people will finally have to adopt extremely different class-type-strategies between enemies rather than stacking on BLM or whatever. If people were locked into classes there would be no way to do this. To balance things, they could make it so that each job has at least one major fight where they are useless, so as to not pick on any specific job.

Because of this system, they can try new things like the above.

With all of the gear (including relic weapon) and skill required to master a particular job in FFXIV very few people can be every class or job. I have all of mine at 50 but I typically stick to warrior and white mage because those are the jobs I have the best gear for, and most experience playing.

As the game ages this will become even more true. Fewer people will have everything at endgame potential when the time involved to get all the adequate gear and experience is multiplied several times.

I agree with you OP but rather than limiting characters to one of each discipline, I think it would work out a lot better if we just drop job/class switching in instanced content.

The only reason I hate other mmos is because they dont have ff11/ff14 multiclass system.

I feel XIV ARR needs to add more uniqueness to "jobs" and get rid of classes all together.

A bard shouldn't have a bow, that's just silly. Is SE really scared that people will hate a pure buff class? It worked for years in XI, I don't see why it wouldn't work here. A WHM shouldn't have Aero or Aeroga, keep it to white magic stuff like Dia and Banish, give back all proper nukes to a BLM.

I just feel like most classes and jobs are too hybrid watered down.

The OP's highest level is 18...

Get to level 50 and say the same thing you are saying now...obviously player is not even far enough to understand the basics of classes or jobs.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

I feel XIV ARR needs to add more uniqueness to "jobs" and get rid of classes all together.

A bard shouldn't have a bow, that's just silly. Is SE really scared that people will hate a pure buff class? It worked for years in XI, I don't see why it wouldn't work here. A WHM shouldn't have Aero or Aeroga, keep it to white magic stuff like Dia and Banish, give back all proper nukes to a BLM.

I just feel like most classes and jobs are too hybrid watered down.

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FFI is looking to you
Btw a pure buffing class is boring like hell. Yes, ffxi's bard war uber-useful, but ultra-boring. What's fun in running like a dog doing nothing else but toss 2 buff ?

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

FFI is looking to you
Btw a pure buffing class is boring like hell. Yes, ffxi's bard war uber-useful, but ultra-boring. What's fun in running like a dog doing nothing else but toss 2 buff ?

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I understand what you mean, I will admit I never got too far into bard. Corsair looked fun, and seemed to sort of bridge a gap between total buff and some DPS assuming them had marksmanship leveled and bought / crafted bullets.

I just really don't like that every job is made up of two classes.

I never really had a problem with boring. I enjoyed playing as a DPS at times, but I was a main healer for years and thats just how it was. Every job can be boring if you just break it down. I mean, in a good merit I was haste x5, protect, shell, refresh and a cure here and there.

I feel like every job we have currently, job's and classes just feel like "standard" ones. Non advanced jobs, the ones you can start with, and barely have to earn. Yes they have added an absolutely ton of great flavor to job's, its a good start and direction, but what I really miss is everyone truly looking unique and performing as such.

--edit:

I guess whats really bugging me when I look at the sea of people in Ul'dah is how non-spread out the jobs seem to be. Everyone seems to have WHM/BLM/WAR/DRG. I miss how much variety XI offered. You had so many options, you could be the lone dancer, or that one dark knight. I know more jobs will come and all, but as it stands, everyone has just leveled everything up and it just makes it look bland on the hole.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

I guess whats really bugging me when I look at the sea of people in Ul'dah is how non-spread out the jobs seem to be. Everyone seems to have WHM/BLM/WAR/DRG. I miss how much variety XI offered. You had so many options, you could be the lone dancer, or that one dark knight. I know more jobs will come and all, but as it stands, everyone has just leveled everything up and it just makes it look bland on the hole.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

it just makes it look bland on the hole.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

on the hole.

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Preparation H anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mZAtpFXmQE

I don't have a huge issue with the way the class system works in FFXIV right now, but I agree with the OP on a couple of small points:

- Players being able to switch to any job at any time removes many players' sense of "uniqueness" and can cause many players to simply want to class-stack rather than working out strategies with the group comp that they have. I wouldn't necessarily mind having to return to town to be able to switch DoW/DoM classes, Mog House-style, but I also recognize that it legitimately is really nice to be able to switch while out somewhere, and player convenience is really important in MMOs these days.

Overall, I think it's probably better left as it is, though I can sympathize with the point of view a bit; as a result of the ease of switching classes, there seems to be this almost implicit assumption out there that everyone is expected to be able to play many different jobs when needed. When I tell people that I'm really only interested in playing WHM (as I dislike both DDing and tanking in the current game engine), I occasionally get surprise in response.

- Cross-class abilities lead to players feeling "required" to level up classes that they have absolutely no interest in due to the importance of obtaining certain abilities (e.g. Sentinel). Thankfully, though, this is significantly less of an issue than it was prior to the skills revamp (DH-era XIV where some classes had to level up all 5 DoW classes to be optimal, shudder).

Beyond those issues, though, I like being able to play "alt classes" (if that's how you prefer to look at them) on my main character. Much less hassle overall.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

It's also the game where people gave you funny looks or called you dumb for wanting to focus on one or a handful of jobs instead of leveling and gearing every available option.

Multi-classing and the job system have always been a double-edged sword. All we can hope for is that job performance is balanced so that one does not easily out-perform the other. That way the guy with all jobs at level cap isn't massively superior to the guy that has one tank job and one DPS job leveled and geared.

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Personally I have never been treated this way and have never treated another this way. If you can't do the job I invited you to do then I'll give you funny looks, but I dont care how many jobs you have lvled. Just do the one asked of you.

If you feel ppl do this to you then thats your issue, unless they literally said something about you not lvling everything.

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

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Originally Posted by fusional

anyway, are you posting on an alt? you have one battle class at level 18. how could you possibly have been negatively affected by this in any way?

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No, I only play one character. I just started playing (look at my Join Date.)

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

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I don't mean unique as in unique personality, I simply mean that everyone is the same ability-wise, which can be good, but is also boring. Just imagine if in Final Fantasy X, every character had the same abilites, what would be the purpose of adding them to your party? You already have all the spells, skills, etc. that you need. . . That's all I meant.

And it's just an opinion, so I don't know why some of the posts in this thread are so aggressive. (Not your's Raagnar.)

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

Personally I have never been treated this way and have never treated another this way. If you can't do the job I invited you to do then I'll give you funny looks, but I dont care how many jobs you have lvled. Just do the one asked of you.

If you feel ppl do this to you then thats your issue, unless they literally said something about you not lvling everything.

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

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Raa! Sucked into posting again bahaha. Anyway this, I really dont see a difference between the two systems. One requires alts, the other doesnt. Its like red wine vs white; at the end of it all its still crushed grapes.

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

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I may not speak for everyone when I clarify this for you, but I can personally say that's not the way we're talking about lack of uniqueness. As it stands now, any given class or job does not have it's OWN uniqueness. Yes, they have started to address this when the Job's came out, but it still bugs me that I have aero as a whm, but no banish.

The concept that you can "fluff" your skills by pulling a few skills from your primary "classes" is silly. Jobs are lacking massive amounts of skills and spells imo. Yes, I'm about to compare FFXIV to XI:


FFXI White Mage:
52 WHM Only Spells.
102 Total Spells.
10 Active Abilities.


FFXIV White Mage:

3 WHM Only Spells.
2 White Mage Abilities.
10 Conjuror Spells.
4 Conjuror Abilities


Yes, a lot of those spells in XI were upgraded versions of AoE / Bar / pro/shell. That's not the point. The point is that feeling of being the one and only, knowing your class brings purpose to the goal of a team. This has nothing to do with someone with every class at 50. It has everything to do with each one of those 50's standing out.

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Originally Posted by Keres

Players being able to switch to any job at any time removes many players' sense of "uniqueness" and can cause many players to simply want to class-stack

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not allowing players to switch jobs actually makes class stacking worse, because then everyone will full-time BLM for the entirety of every single av/cc run- whereas currently people swap in warriors a dragoons for princess, monks for mistress, etc.

so rather than having some diversity in content, you want none? good plan.

edit: upon browsing your lodestone i see you haven't actually experienced nearly any of this content. so now your position makes more sense- just parroting what you've seen other people say (who also haven't experienced the content). for the life of me i can't understand why people do this so often in these forums.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Raa! Sucked into posting again bahaha. Anyway this, I really dont see a difference between the two systems. One requires alts, the other doesnt. Its like red wine vs white; at the end of it all its still crushed grapes.

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I agree with this. When I originally started this thread, I hadn't considered people making alts (personally I like to keep one character; two at most.) So maybe that is one of the reasons SE decided to set it up the way they did. Hmmmmm. . .

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

I may not speak for everyone when I clarify this for you, but I can personally say that's not the way we're talking about lack of uniqueness. As it stands now, any given class or job does not have it's OWN uniqueness. Yes, they have started to address this when the Job's came out, but it still bugs me that I have aero as a whm, but no banish.

The concept that you can "fluff" your skills by pulling a few skills from your primary "classes" is silly. Jobs are lacking massive amounts of skills and spells imo. Yes, I'm about to compare FFXIV to XI:


FFXI White Mage:
52 WHM Only Spells.
102 Total Spells.
10 Active Abilities.


FFXIV White Mage:

3 WHM Only Spells.
2 White Mage Abilities.
10 Conjuror Spells.
4 Conjuror Abilities


Yes, a lot of those spells in XI were upgraded versions of AoE / Bar / pro/shell. That's not the point. The point is that feeling of being the one and only, knowing your class brings purpose to the goal of a team. This has nothing to do with someone with every class at 50. It has everything to do with each one of those 50's standing out.

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Did you even play any earlier FF games? Aero is a common white mage magic. I don't know about you but when I look at my Action bar when playing white mage, everthing about it screams WHM

Look under the "specs"
Aero was originally a white magic. Maybe not stone but it fits the "natural" theme of Conjury.


Oh and please tell me more about how each job doesn't have uniqueness. Maybe not classes AS MUCH but each class has its own methods of doing the same thing and that thing is SOLOING.

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Originally Posted by fusional

snip

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I'm not sure if you actually read my post completely. My point of view is that I can sympathize with the argument in certain ways, but that things are still better off the way they are currently, as the downsides of the suggested alternative are even worse. I explicitly said as much.

Regarding not having completed the current endgame content, I fully admit this, and never have once tried to hide it. I simply do not have fun playing XIV 1.0, so I have no desire to invest the time required to gear myself sufficiently for an endgame that I wouldn't even enjoy. If you look at my post history, you'll see that I absolutely never participate in discussions about endgame content strategy or difficulty, as I have no interest in pretending to have great insight into such topics. However, this particular issue is not exclusive to endgame players -- job flexibility and uniqueness in groups is a topic for debate that's relevant to all players, from level 1 to 50.

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Originally Posted by flaco

I agree with this. When I originally started this thread, I hadn't considered people making alts (personally I like to keep one character; two at most.) So maybe that is one of the reasons SE decided to set it up the way they did. Hmmmmm. . .

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Having played WoW with a progression based raiding guild, I will just say that the people who currently have every level 50 would be the same ones in WoW that have an alt that does everything anyway. I know that for a lot of our raiding I would play as my priest (main), but if people wanted to do something else and my priest was on timer I would go on my rogue, or my shaman... So at the end of the day people that want those maxxed classes are going to have them, but if you looked at the gear disparity between my rogue and my priest it wasn't even close because I played my priest just that much more. I'd imagine you'll likely find it the same here.

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Originally Posted by Keres

job flexibility and uniqueness in groups is a topic for debate that's relevant to all players, from level 1 to 50.

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how does job switching affect you negatively at all outside of endgame circumstances?

@ OP

Coming to this party late, but if you wanted to be locked into what class you're playing, this definitely isn't the game for you. This game was built off of FFXI to an extent and it was known for its versatility in what you can play on one character. This game is taking a lot already from WoW and other MMOs, but that's one feature this game doesn't need.

Okay addressing the topic.

The armory system makes it really easy to switch jobs on the fly as I'm sure we've already established this. I find no need to go to a moogle to change my job as in XI, it is just an extra time consuming step, especially in a game that encourages you to play more than one role.

Why more than one role?
While I get that there are some people who like to play just one job, they simply can not expect to get the role every time with that attitude. Take league of legends for instance. 5 roles on the field, often times rather than being versatile, people claim one role at queue and complain if they don't get it. That game encourages you to play different champions and you can not participate in ranked matches without at least 16. Even if your interested in a particular role and accept responsibly if you want to get a task done. Which ever role you play the end result of the battle will probably yield the same rewards.

What I'm saying is that in a game where multiple roles are encouraged, you're better off taking fancy to more than just your favorite because you are not the only one playing and roles will get filled before you.

OP, why are you so concerned with being unique from other players? Your experience with the game will vary socially and with what jobs you decide to take up first. Locking people to one role per discipline isn't going to create uniqueness, it will just create the pain in the ass of having to switch characters for a new job. At the end of leveling yes, all character will pretty much look the same but that goes for ANY game you play.

What I'm saying here is pretty much the sky is the limit, and how you get there is going to vary from everyone else.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

I may not speak for everyone when I clarify this for you, but I can personally say that's not the way we're talking about lack of uniqueness. As it stands now, any given class or job does not have it's OWN uniqueness. Yes, they have started to address this when the Job's came out, but it still bugs me that I have aero as a whm, but no banish.

The concept that you can "fluff" your skills by pulling a few skills from your primary "classes" is silly. Jobs are lacking massive amounts of skills and spells imo. Yes, I'm about to compare FFXIV to XI:

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This would kinda be the problem. Just stop doing that. This is not XI. For the love of god we understand as FF fans that every successive game is a lot different than the last. Why should XI and XIV be an exception? I didnt play FF8 and bitch and moan about how there's no omnislash, no knights of the round, and that shit was generally different. The same with XI, with X, with all of them really. Why oh why MUST you compare them? This is assuming, of course, that you are an FF fan. If you're not I totally understand why you're doing what you're doing.


I can count the number of times my WHM had Banish in Final Fantasy....on one hand. Probably less than that. I can't speak for the early early titles since i didnt play them, but I dont remember Banish in 7, 8, 9, 10, X-2, or XIII. Jus sayin. Not so sure about XIII as I never finished it.

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

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I consider it unfortunate that there is little room to discuss things like this when people take such an offended stance at someone bringing up points from a game that is directly related to this one. Yes, you can bring up plenty of points about WHM's from other titles, but for the purpose of this discussion, XI's is the most practical.

But, as I said, there is no discussion to be had. This isn't about turning XIV into XI, it's about not ignoring what made that game as fun as it was, which is, in large what caused such a problem with XIV's release (at least for those who are major fan's and could ignore the interface / input / glitch issues).

I love being able to switch jobs on one character two thing though. 1. Inventory with that many jobs will add up over time making forums wanting more inventory space for the game life span and making mules just like ffxi but will cost 3$ just to have them etc. 2. Again equipment people will want the same gear since they can be whatever job making it a headache to some people getting that gear when a whm will lot on a pld gear for example.

But I say as a community when you go to raid/instance whatever you make a list say whoever started the party or link shell event on what that player wants as a drop for one particular job they ask for! Though a drop can be something that no one lot for and that can be free lot. For inventory space that a battle will always be in play but I still like being able to be any job....

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

This would kinda be the problem. Just stop doing that. This is not XI. For the love of god we understand as FF fans that every successive game is a lot different than the last. Why should XI and XIV be an exception? I didnt play FF8 and bitch and moan about how there's no omnislash, no knights of the round, and that shit was generally different. The same with XI, with X, with all of them really. Why oh why MUST you compare them? This is assuming, of course, that you are an FF fan. If you're not I totally understand why you're doing what you're doing.


I can count the number of times my WHM had Banish in Final Fantasy....on one hand. Probably less than that. I can't speak for the early early titles since i didnt play them, but I dont remember Banish in 7, 8, 9, 10, X-2, or XIII. Jus sayin. Not so sure about XIII as I never finished it.

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

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I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.
Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

well true anyone can be anything but you do gear up some jobs better than other so that could make you a better Blm than someone else.

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Originally Posted by Renen

I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.

Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

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This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.

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Originally Posted by flaco

I don't mean unique as in unique personality, I simply mean that everyone is the same ability-wise, which can be good, but is also boring. Just imagine if in Final Fantasy X, every character had the same abilites, what would be the purpose of adding them to your party? You already have all the spells, skills, etc. that you need. . . That's all I meant.

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Oh god.
Oh god.
I mean I can get your point (I disagree with this thread, btw, but I understand what you mean), but could you have not chosen a WORSE comparison?
Really?
You get to pick the one FF game where everyone can learn every single ability at the same time since they all share the same Sphere Grid and aside from where they start (and they start very close together in the International version) to mention 'characters being unique'?
I mean... Each character was more unique in FFV than they were in FFX, specially at higher levels.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.

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But even then, the amount of skills that I actually use in a party is so low...
Here are just some skills that WHM can use (it just so happens FF11 whm have them, but thats not the point):
Bar-element
Shell
Reraise
Dia (or any low-tier single target white magic)
In reality, in a singe fight WHM/CNJ use only 1/3 of all the spells they get. 11 (14 for WHM)

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Originally Posted by Renen

But even then, the amount of skills that I actually use in a party is so low...
Here are just some skills that WHM can use (it just so happens FF11 whm have them, but thats not the point):
Bar-element
Shell
Reraise
Dia (or any low-tier single target white magic)
In reality, in a singe fight WHM/CNJ use only 1/3 of all the spells they get. 11 (14 for WHM)

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You know I posted my concerns about this. I've been a healer for the past 10 years. Little worried with looking at the list of what whm could do. I would like more abilities in my arsenal. However! It got me thinking...I mean cap level is only at 50 right now. I would imagine that 2.0 is going to tweak/add abilities. After Yoshida increases the level cap, all classes/jobs will have more depth to them.

I agree with the OP about most of the points made. I really don't like everyone being everything max level. It does kinda ruin the uniqueness of individuals. I used to love the feeling of knowing I was like one of 3 paladins in my linkshell in XI and one of 2 Samurais for a loong time. if everyone is just everything it's like what's the point?

I also do NOT want it limited to one job per character because i don't feel like trying to figure out who everyone's alts are, plus having to re-do story elements everytime you want to test out another job. Someone mentioned on these boards before about an idea of certain "Jobs" locking out another. level any class you want as high as you want but for instance if you decide to go paladin you would "lock out" dark knight (if it was in the game) they got a lot of hate for that post but I like the idea, stand up, make a choice and stand by it, and specialize in that area. for me it would be cool for it to be that way and be awesome for MY IMMERSIONS!!!

Every one shouldn't be every single darn job, especially max level. multiple sure, but all of them? perhaps as level caps increase you could not "lock out" the other job but have it not able to go past a certain point. like crafting in xi. just as example once again if the level cap went to 60 and you took pld beyond 50, the other job opposite of it would lock at 50 and you couldn't go past that. if at some point you wanted to level that other job then you have a decision to make, and have some kind of quest or something to pick up that other discipline and your pld would lock back down to 50 as you leveled the other job past.

I don't know, but there needs to be something, I've just never liked the idea of everyone maxing everything. that's what killed XI for me, when it was so easy to level everyone had every darn job.

I don't get the whole point of this mess.... lol get sick of rolling alts in another mmorpgs because of their limitations don't bring em in this game plz... really don't see a logical point in it... ~.~

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Originally Posted by Artiss2k

I agree with the OP about most of the points made. I really don't like everyone being everything max level. It does kinda ruin the uniqueness of individuals. I used to love the feeling of knowing I was like one of 3 paladins in my linkshell in XI and one of 2 Samurais for a loong time. if everyone is just everything it's like what's the point?

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Those 3 paladins might not always be around... Stuff happens... RL... Boredom from the game etc... then what are you going do pay for an alt just to level the class or would it make more sense to already have it on your main char which can basically do everything without the non sense of going through the storyline again lol...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Artiss2k

Every one shouldn't be every single darn job, especially max level. multiple sure, but all of them?

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the only reason this happens is because of the stupid fast leveling in this game and power leveling. thie is something that yoshi brought upon himself. i hope in 2.0 each level takes hours to get and then you will have less people hitting max in any class. this is the fault of the gimme everything now crew that there's such a high percentage of people with every class at cap. it's something that i hope yoshi takes into consideration in 2.0 and makes the leveling much slower.

the problem isn't that someone can max every job. the problem is you can start and max every battle class in less than a month that's an issue. if the leveling took longer to do then it'd be rare to see people with all classes at cap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Artiss2k

I agree with the OP about most of the points made. I really don't like everyone being everything max level. It does kinda ruin the uniqueness of individuals. I used to love the feeling of knowing I was like one of 3 paladins in my linkshell in XI and one of 2 Samurais for a loong time. if everyone is just everything it's like what's the point?

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If my linkshell is anything typical, then most people like playing certain classes and therefore then to get better at them because of practice.

Among our core members I know that...
We have someone who plays PLD, WAR and WHM.
Someone else plays PLD, BLM and WHM.
Another likes DRG and BLM.
Yet another likes MNK most of all but will sometimes play WAR.
I personally like WHM, BLM and BRD.

I'd say we all bring different strengths to our LS and we are all quite unique despite many people being level capped already.


Limiting our choices only limits our fun... it doesn't make anyone special.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the only reason this happens is because of the stupid fast leveling in this game and power leveling. thie is something that yoshi brought upon himself. i hope in 2.0 each level takes hours to get and then you will have less people hitting max in any class. this is the fault of the gimme everything now crew that there's such a high percentage of people with every class at cap. it's something that i hope yoshi takes into consideration in 2.0 and makes the leveling much slower.

the problem isn't that someone can max every job. the problem is you can start and max every battle class in less than a month that's an issue. if the leveling took longer to do then it'd be rare to see people with all classes at cap.

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This could be more of a player base desire issue that is driving design decisions.
When a customer wants something, do you give it to them even if it is a bad choice?

Many people think that all the good stuff and good gear only happens at endgame. To them endgame is where the fun starts, so they want to get there as quickly as possible.

And I think that is why SE has allowed the power leveling mechanic to continue to exist for those customers who want it... even if there are those at SE who might feel it's not the right way to enjoy a game.

At least not everyone wants or uses power leveling. That choice is up to the individual player according to their idea of fun.