Can Meteor's next job not be melee?

reaper and the cold... seems fitting to me.

also: at least the german name (i assume its the same in english?) comes from people who would go around to help harvesting stuff in different places...wanderarbeiter in german. a worker wandering around with his scythe to earn money in different places... a wanderer who works often far from home.
the farwanderer?

no clue if that parallel is intended though

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

PLD for EW was also a very heavy nod to Cecil FF4's transition from a DRK to a PLD, and we knew there was going to be a lot of FF4 reference from the Fanfest reveals, like that the Magus Sisters would be somewhere as a boss



That is very unlikely to ever happen outside of Encyclopedia Eorzea, because it'd require SE to either A: explain the disconnect between WHM being so destructive in the lore and how it was partially responsible for a Calamity (along with BLM), yet we as players get the 'It's focused on Pure Healing (tm)' CureSpamming version of WHM, or B: rewrite the lore of the Calamity to say that 'BLMs kept using stronger and stronger destructive magic, and WHMs kept using stronger and stronger restoration magic to heal through everything the BLMs threw at them', effectively making 'CureSpamming WHM' canon to the lore of the game (and it still wouldn't explain why it was a Water calamity specifically)

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I think that's a little too pragmatic. They don't seem to have an issue installing lore or power fantasies that disconnect from active gameplay mechanics no matter how much ludo narrative dissonance it creates. Like how NPC Conjurers are perfectly fine displaying more interesting and aggressive tools than players are allowed to use as what is supposed to be an even stronger version of said class.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

reaper and the cold... seems fitting to me.

also: at least the german name (i assume its the same in english?) comes from people who would go around to help harvesting stuff in different places...wanderarbeiter in german. a worker wandering around with his scythe to earn money in different places... a wanderer who works often far from home.
the farwanderer?

no clue if that parallel is intended though

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What about reapers are connected to the cold? The fact that it's from Garlemald?

death... death connects the reaper to the cold. the death reaper harvests your soul. this kind of reaper (symbolising death) is very often connected to the cold.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

death... death connects the reaper to the cold. the death reaper harvests your soul. this kind of reaper (symbolising death) is very often connected to the cold.

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If you're talking about the concept of like "The cold grasp of death," then wouldn't that be the opposite of what the Warrior of Light should be doing? Shadowbringers was about bringing darkness to light. So if we're trying to bring warmth to cold, that would mean bringing life to death, such as maybe Scholar from a literal healing standpoint, or perhaps Dancer given the job quest's lore.

My interpretation of why Reaper is because the nature of Darkness in FFXIV lore, which is the inverse of cold=death, Darkness is characterized by Aetheric activity, while ice is an element that by its nature is very still, so perhaps a well-utilized blast of Darkness is all it takes to disperse a lot of ice. "And why not Black Mage with Fire spells"? idk, but if you want an explanation, perhaps fire is simply inefficient at dispersing ice-aspected aether, fire and ice are mutually weak to each other, while Darkness, being a composite "element" of 3 elements, is greater than any given pure element, and so it does the job better.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

My interpretation of why Reaper is because the nature of Darkness in FFXIV lore, which is the inverse of cold=death, Darkness is characterized by Aetheric activity, while ice is an element that by its nature is very still, so perhaps a well-utilized blast of Darkness is all it takes to disperse a lot of ice. "And why not Black Mage with Fire spells"? idk, but if you want an explanation, perhaps fire is simply inefficient at dispersing ice-aspected aether, fire and ice are mutually weak to each other, while Darkness, being a composite "element" of 3 elements, is greater than any given pure element, and so it does the job better.

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It's more likely an easier explanation to say 'there's not really enough Fire Aether left in that Shard to work with (to enact change on a global level)', or 'Fire Aether is most commonly Astral in nature, which makes it behave too destructively/explosive to utilize without destroying things by accident'

Fire and Ice aren't mutually weak to one another, though. Fire beats Ice, Ice beats Wind, Wind beats Fire (it's why we needed an Ice crystal to get to Garuda in the story, to weaken her wind barrier). So, if we could source a lot of Fire Aether from somewhere, say, a Shard we've never been to which happens to be tilted heavily towards Fire, then perhaps we could do a similar exchange program like we did with 1st and 13th. Or even a three-way exchange where Fire gets pumped into the 4th, the 4th's Ice gets pumped to the Wind-aligned Shard, and the Wind from that Shard back into the Fire-aligned Shard, re-balancing the Aether of all three and bringing them all back to some degree of equilibrium (which then stabilizes them and stops them from being drawn towards the Source to merge)

I really doubt that the Reaper WoL in the trailer is this fakeout since Reaper is arguably the most fitting job thematically for Evercold as it revolves around Norse Mythology and Reaper fits well into that lore as it will have more creepy (horror) elements than usual. Some central concepts of Reaper lore are death, possession and hunting which are central themes in Norse Mythology. For example one of my current theories is that the final zone of The Fourth will probably be the Norse Mythology underworld, Helheim. Reaper would make a lot of sense thematically if this is what they are going for. It's also not an original FF job which means they can get more creative with the lore in Evercold.

They will probably dig much deeper with the Zenos and WoL parallels as shown in 7.5 when he was directly referenced by Halmarut. I'm assuming this is going to be a main theme of Evercold where the WoL struggles with the evilness and selfish desires inside of them. After Dawntrail I think the WoL just wants to enjoy himself again and doesn't care about saving the world for the tenth time.

The main rumor I've seen being thrown around is that the Reaper WoL in the trailer is a stand-in for Zero which is pretty ridiculous since she probably won't be in 8.0 if 7.5 MSQ is anything to go off of. I've also seen the evil sundered WoL rumor which is much more realistic and could actually be what they are going for. This would be cool, but then what job is the WoL? It seems like the Physical Ranged is going to be a Crossbow job and the Tank is going to be a Valkyrie job. Both could definitely fit the WoL thematically, but not better than Reaper for Evercold.

Melee and Tank Jobs simply fit the trailer WoL the best and I don't see them changing this up in Evercold at least. I wouldn't want to see a 30ish y/o Male be a White Mage, Dancer or Astrologian as that's just ridiculous I'm sorry. They let you create a character so you can theme your WoL, not the trailer WoL. I agree it's possible in some cases as Red Mage, Summoner and Machinist would've fit him well and still can, but even then there were better options that were Melee and Tank during those expansions. Do you see the problem?

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

"Meteor Survivor" has been the fan nickname to the posterboy Midlander for a very long while now.

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Derplander dislikes this change.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

I really doubt that the Reaper WoL in the trailer is this fakeout since Reaper is arguably the most fitting job thematically for Evercold as it revolves around Norse Mythology and Reaper fits well into that lore as it will have more creepy (horror) elements than usual. Some central concepts of Reaper lore are death, possession and hunting which are central themes in Norse Mythology. For example one of my current theories is that the final zone of The Fourth will probably be the Norse Mythology underworld, Helheim. Reaper would make a lot of sense thematically if this is what they are going for. It's also not an original FF job which means they can get more creative with the lore in Evercold.

The main rumor I've seen being thrown around is that the Reaper WoL in the trailer is a stand-in for Zero which is pretty ridiculous since she probably won't be in 8.0 if 7.5 MSQ is anything to go off of. I've also seen the evil sundered WoL rumor which is much more realistic and could actually be what they are going for. This would be cool, but then what job is the WoL? It seems like the Physical Ranged is going to be a Crossbow job and the Tank is going to be a Valkyrie job. Both could definitely fit the WoL thematically, but not better than Reaper for Evercold.

Melee and Tank Jobs simply fit the trailer WoL the best and I don't see them changing this up in Evercold at least. I wouldn't want to see a 30ish y/o Male be a White Mage, Dancer or Astrologian as that's just ridiculous I'm sorry. They let you create a character so you can theme your WoL, not the trailer WoL. I agree it's possible in some cases as Red Mage, Summoner and Machinist would've fit him well and still can, but even then there were better options that were Melee and Tank during those expansions. Do you see the problem?

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Phew, I'm glad our warrior of light isn't being portrayed as some girly male dancer, am I right?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Phew, I'm glad our warrior of light isn't being portrayed as some girly male dancer, am I right?

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Completely different game dude, FF Dancer is nothing like that nor does the trailer WoL have that personality he's just a stand-in John Final Fantasy. Obviously that looks awesome, but I don't see how this interpretation fits with any Expansion so far including Evercold. I also don't think Tekken 8 is doing so hot right now...

If they make the WoL a Ranged Role something like that in the future, that would be awesome if it's the correct choice and fits the trailer WoL. An example is that Machinist would be an awesome choice for the canon WoL in a FFVII themed expansion, this is a possibility for 9.0 or 10.0. The WoL was an Archer in 1.0, but I'd also argue that Archer perfectly fits this interpretation of the WoL as he was much younger and Archer is the stereotypical adventurer job in RPGs for new players. Right now I have little reason to not want the WoL to be Reaper in Evercold when the WoL was already shown as a Reaper and it fits the theme of the Expansion.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg6yutR3AG0&t=207s

For someone whose signature is "Sage has failed to live up to the fantasy of a sci-fi DPS healer," which I completely agree with btw, I’m just confused why you’re dying on this hill if you care so much about accuracy since every WoL interpretation so far has always been the correct choice for the theme of the expansion. They shouldn't force the WoL to be a certain Role or Job when it doesn't fit him or the theme at all.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Completely different game dude, FF Dancer is nothing like that nor does the trailer WoL have that personality he's just a stand-in John Final Fantasy. Obviously that looks awesome, but I also don't think Tekken 8 is doing so hot right now...

If they somehow make it work in the future, that's awesome! Though they haven't done it yet for those exact reasons so I simply haveve no reason to believe they will in Evercold when the WoL was already shown as a Reaper.

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The point of a comparison is never 'Look! Let's just literally recreate Eddie in FFXIV!' That's basic common sense. It's about proving that this stupid mentality of 'Ew, the trailer Warrior of Light could never be a disgusting ugly healer, caster, or dancer' is absolutely ridiculous. Your only limitation to making any job look exciting and even strong or masculine is entirely up to the creativity of the animator. Anyone who thinks it can't be done, doesn't make sense, or would look weird is just exposing their own creative ineptitude.

Also, this thread isn't about Evercold. That ship has sailed. It's about saying that it would be nice to consider representing some other roles for a change next time around, since you know, this game is made up of more than just tanks and melee DPS.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The point of a comparison is never 'Look! Let's just literally recreate Eddie in FFXIV!' That's basic common sense. It's about proving that this stupid mentality of 'Ew, the trailer Warrior of Light could never be a disgusting ugly healer, caster, or dancer' is absolutely ridiculous. Your only limitation to making any job look exciting and even strong or masculine is entirely up to the creativity of the animator. Anyone who thinks it can't be done, doesn't make sense, or would look weird is just exposing their own creative ineptitude.

Also, this thread isn't about Evercold. That ship has sailed. It's about saying that it would be nice to consider representing some other roles for a change next time around, since you know, this game is made up of more than just tanks and melee DPS.

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If it fits the theme of the expansion then absolutely. The reality is the canonical trailer WoL is this 30ish y/o Male and they don't want to advertise him as a goofy Dancer or Pictomancer it's not going to sell money or hype anyone up. That's goofy advertising and I think a lot of XIV players would have issues with that even if YOU like it. I don't think anyone really has an issue with the WoL being Reaper in Everold as it fundamentally fits him and the theme of the expansion. There's a reason why HW, ShB and Evercold WoL interpretations were some of the best received ones, because those Jobs perfectly fit the Expansions theme. You know I actually agree that the WoL could've been a new Physical Ranged or Machinist in Dawntrail but they simply didn't go with that direction. Oh well.

Like I said we have multiple existing Jobs that the trailer WoL could sense as: NIN, MCH, SMN, SCH are the most realistic ones if they give them the correct interpretation like you said. I doubt we are getting a new Melee or Tank for a while unless 9.0 has three jobs so I can see a new job in 9.0 or 10.0 making you happy. However I simply don't see certain jobs like GNB, BRD, DNC, BLM, RDM, PCT, WHM, AST and SGE ever being the canonical job in an Expansion considering the WoL is a 30ish y/o Male and a lot of these jobs are already being occupied by current party members. That's goofy advertising and I think a lot of XIV players would have issues with that even if YOU like it. I don't think anyone really has an issue with the WoL being Reaper fundamentally as it fits the expansion.

I also simply don't want the WoLs job to be decided on before the theme of the expansion and affect how the story is made. If the WoL is a Dancer the story would have to be much more lighthearted and happier than usual to reflect that decision. I don't think anyone wants that in the story right now after Dawntrail.

perhaps it would come down to whether YoshiP would cosplay it at a Fanfest or not

would he do BLM?

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

If it fits the theme of the expansion, absolutely. Like I said we have multiple existing options that the trailer WoL would sense as: NIN, MCH, SMN, RDM SCH, SGE I think most people can see them fitting the WoL in the correct interpretation. I doubt we are getting a new Melee or Tank for a while unless 9.0 has three jobs, so I can see a new job in 9.0 or 10.0 making you happy. However I simply don't see jobs like WHM, AST, BRD, DNC and PCT ever being the canonical job in an Expansion considering the WoL is a 30ish y/o Male. That's goofy advertising and I think a lot of XIV players would have issues with that even if YOU like it. I don't think anyone really has an issue with the WoL being Reaper fundamentally as it fits the expansion.

I also simply don't want the WoLs job to be decided on before the theme of the expansion and affect how the story is made. If the WoL is a Dancer the story would have to be much more lighthearted and happier than usual to reflect that decision. I don't think anyone wants that in the story right now after Dawntrail.

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"Goofy" advertising is ridiculous. You're making so many assumptions about the prospect of using any more whimsical jobs that is impossible to follow them all.

No one is saying choose a non-melee job right now and decide 9.0's entire themes around said job. Again, all you're doing is showing your lack of creative sense if all you can see is some goofy looking man in a girly robe doing something silly and nothing else. It's also a huge disrespect to those jobs to say that they can't be serious enough to be used canonically by the hero of the story.

I gave the example before that both Black Mage and White Mage would be fantastic to be showcased together if a future expansion chooses to explore the shard wasted by the Sixth Umbral calamity, similar to how Monk and Samurai were used to represent Stormblood. Because those are the two jobs that caused the Sixth Umbral calamity. You say if the WoL were a Dancer, then the theme of the expansion must be lighthearted, but that's such a shallow interpretation. Again, for people who have some creative sense, there's a lot you could come up with. Consider Octopath Traveler's Primrose, whose theme is revenge of all things.

I'm sure it just comes down to marketing and what ever fits the expansion.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

"Goofy" advertising is ridiculous. You're making so many assumptions about the prospect of using any more whimsical jobs that is impossible to follow them all.

No one is saying choose a non-melee job right now and decide 9.0's entire themes around said job. Again, all you're doing is showing your lack of creative sense if all you can see is some goofy looking man in a girly robe doing something silly and nothing else. It's also a huge disrespect to those jobs to say that they can't be serious enough to be used canonically by the hero of the story.

I gave the example before that both Black Mage and White Mage would be fantastic to be showcased together if a future expansion chooses to explore the shard wasted by the Sixth Umbral calamity, similar to how Monk and Samurai were used to represent Stormblood. Because those are the two jobs that caused the Sixth Umbral calamity. You say if the WoL were a Dancer, then the theme of the expansion must be lighthearted, but that's such a shallow interpretation. Again, for people who have some creative sense, there's a lot you could come up with. Consider Octopath Traveler's Primrose, whose theme is revenge of all things.

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I think what this ultimately comes down to is that you lack awareness of marketing tactics and also the stories CBU3 are trying to tell. There's a reason why they aren't designing this game around Hardcore raiders, and hey we aren't really complaining about that since we are in the minority right now. Same as why there are numerous reasons as to why they haven't advertised the WoL as a Dancer, White Mage or Pictomancer but you will ignore all of these reasons just because you want to see it which is human nature. Going into NA Fanfest I actually did predict the WoL being a Reaper, but I still wasn't knocking on Yoshida's door begging for the WoL to be a Reaper or any specific Melee or Tank. Instead I let them cook and decide what Job is best for their story and marketing.That's what you should be doing also instead of pushing this narrative like you deserve it or something. You care too much about an issue which is very low on their priority. There are much bigger issues with XIV which they addressed at Fanfest.

The theme of this next saga is The Godless Realms. I really don't think it makes much sense for the WoL to be this whimsical happy job when Shards are literally falling apart and the rejoining is going to happen.

Primrose is awesome, I love her. However again completely a different game with an original story and even that story gets ridiculous in the final act, but hey at least it's so insane that it's almost funny which fits the DNC vibe. Like in the first chapter she... I probably can't even talk about that here but I simply can't see our WoL ever doing those acts. It's a good story though.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

all you're doing is showing your lack of creative sense if all you can see is some goofy looking man in a girly robe doing something silly and nothing else.

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Meteor doesn't even need a robe to be a healer, right? When I played WoW, in the Battle for Azeroth trailer one of the most beautiful cinematics was Anduin using the Light to heal everyone around him. I'm sure some hated it, but you don't need him wearing a robe to be a healer. He can do a lot of cool stuff without being relegated to "Robe wearing healer."

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

Meteor doesn't even need a robe to be a healer, right? When I played WoW, in the Battle for Azeroth trailer one of the most beautiful cinematics was Anduin using the Light to heal everyone around him. I'm sure some hated it, but you don't need him wearing a robe to be a healer. He can do a lot of cool stuff without being relegated to "Robe wearing healer."

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Literally does the WOW equivalent of 'Healer LB3 an entire army'. Probably doesn't count though, because he's not a 30 year old (sarcasm). On the flipside, though, you do also have characters like Uther (Holy Paladin) or Khadgar (Arcane? Mage, idk he seems pretty good at all three specs from what I've seen), older characters who are definitely still badass despite the age (or perhaps because of their age?)

On our side, it's not like Healers have to be entirely 'girly' in aesthetic. Like, WHMs don't 'have' to be just twinkly lights, that's just what SE's decided to make them for whatever reason. But equally, they could just as easily be designed to be about the elemental powers of Earth, Wind and Water, as a foil to BLM's Fire/Ice/Lightning. Being able to summon tornadoes, cause flash flooding, and cause the very ground to quake, doesn't sound 'girly' or 'goofy' to me, but it's still within the WHM identity-sphere because of its Conjurer roots. Similarly, I don't think it's fair to say that SCH is 'girly' or 'goofy' just because it summons a Faerie, because that throws out all the Military/Tactical aesthetics, and those aren't exactly gender-specific. AST is fortunetelling, last I checked Fate is an equal-opportunities employer but there's also a Job Quest where an AST stops time, which is a fairly cool looking (gender neutral) level of power to wield in combat. And every notable NPC we've seen that uses SGE (going from memory, that'd be Alphinaud, his dad and the one viera in the Job Quest) are all male? Was there a single female SGE NPC at any point? Heck, it's not entirely SGE, but even Howling Blade is kinda sorta reminiscent of a SGE with his Fin Funnels (since both are inspired by Gundam) and he's male too

Louisoix was 72, Papalymo was 42, all of the Ancients are... Ancient. Or are we going to say that Louisoix looked 'girly' or 'goofy' in the ARR cinematic when he held off Bahamut?

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

perhaps it would come down to whether YoshiP would cosplay it at a Fanfest or not

would he do BLM?

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He already did, at one of the HW ones IIRC

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I'm sure it just comes down to marketing and what ever fits the expansion.

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Exactly this yes. What we as consumers should care about most right now is that XIV succeeds and marketing and thematic fit plays a HUGE part in an Expansion succeeding. I genuinely think the last thing most players wanted to see at NA Fanfest coming off of Dawntrail was the WoL as a Dancer or White Mage but people here don't understand that context nor do they care since humans are selfish by nature. A major complaint with Dawntrail is that Tural and Alexandria thematically didn't fit together in one Expansion, so clearly marketing and thematic fit matters a lot to most players which was made clear.

As consumers we should want this game to succeed and make a lot of money so CBU3 can get a higher budget which allows us to receive more content at a faster pace as consumers paying a $13 monthly sub. It’s in our best interest for SQEX to do well as a company which they haven't been for a while. They need a big win in Evercold and again I really don't think the WoL appearing as a Dancer or White Mage is going to bring that unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

He already did, at one of the HW ones IIRC

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Yeah he did it was awesome. Doesn't mean that was the new Job though that's just his favorite Job.

I personally believe that BLM's ship has sailed a long time ago. The last real chance narratively was Shadowbringers but DRK prevailed for obvious reasons. Now I don't see it ever being the WoL Job considering it is Y'shtola's canonical Job. I use this same rationale for multiple other jobs like Alisaie RDM, Krile PCT, Thancred GNB, Alpinaud SGE, Urianger AST. Obviously doesn't mean they aren't possible, just very unlikely at this stage of the game.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Louisoix was 72, Papalymo was 42, all of the Ancients are... Ancient. Or are we going to say that Louisoix looked 'girly' or 'goofy' in the ARR cinematic when he held off Bahamut? IIRC

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Oh trust me I wish they made the WHM aesthetic cool and interesting again like ARR, however I simply don't think that is going to happen or is a priority of theirs given Evolved WHM lol.

But in Endwalker Venat/Hydaelyn was rocking the PLD/DNC/WHM combination and it was awesome. So it's very possible they can make these jobs cool again to fit the WoL.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

I genuinely think the last thing most players wanted to see at NA Fanfest coming off of Dawntrail was the WoL as a Dancer or White Mage but people here don't understand that context

They need a big win in Evercold and again I really don't think the WoL appearing as a Dancer or White Mage is going to bring that unfortunately.

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I'm also not sold on Dancer, but WHM I disagree with. It's very possible to make a WHM that looks badass in a trailer. Same with any of the Healers

I think you just have a preference, and you're insisting that advertising requires catering to that preference to be successful, but it doesn't necessarily have to.

Also, you say EC needs to be a big win for them, and that 'WOL being a DNC/WHM isn't going to be that', how is the WOL being a RPR going to cause EC to be a big win? We saw WOL being a VPR for DT and DT wasn't a big win, so maybe we could equally say 'oh actually maybe people are tired of Melee/Tanks being the Trailer Job for 5 expansions in a row, we should try something different'?

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

"We know most people play dps so we always want to release a dps class"
Congratulations... you're compounding the problem.
You generate interest in tanks and healers by revamping them and releasing new ones. All they've ever done is homogenize and simplify them. 4 tanks and 4 healers vs. 14 dps jobs. What a joke.

I guess they normally only care about pleasing the shareholders, so when the game tanks so hard they actually have to look the players' way for once, they treat us the same way instead of doing competent game design.

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Was scrolling though some earlier pages and saw this: this is absolutely true and a major issue with XIV that more casual gamers do not understand. Most games that have a Trinity system fall into this same problem of releasing too many DPS and the player base starts getting pissed, XIV is no exception. Also they separate Tank and Healers into sub-roles while other games don't really do that. So now it's effectively a 3-2 and 2-2 spread for the Supports while the DPS Jobs will have 7-4-5 after Evercold including Limited Jobs.

Five Tanks and four Healers simply isn't going to cut it going forward and hopefully people realize this next expansion. I do believe they should go back to releasing three jobs per expansion and both a Tank and a Healer should be two of the new Jobs released in 9.0 alongside a DPS as this would please everyone. Then 10.0 would be two DPS and a Healer. Now the Support spread is 3-3 and 3-3 which is much more healthy. 11.0 and onwards they can do whatever since the problem would be addressed by then in only two expansions.

This Viera Wildheaven has good takes.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You know, thematically I struggle to see how Reaper is supposed to connect to the initial themes of Evercold. Like there's certainly a lot more that could be revealed that might more strongly connect the job to the expansion, but looking back, you could at least see the thematic link between Dark Knight and Shadowbringers, as well as Paladin and Endwalker, right away. You'd think in an expansion where we'll become the Warrior of Fire, that Black Mage would be the natural choice. That said, if we do end up going to the shard that succumbed to water, I think repping both Black Mage and White Mage would be a lot cooler as I mentioned in the initial post rather than just being a Black Mage here for Evercold. But what about Summoner bringing the aether of Ifrit?

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And this just makes no sense but you probably don't have the context yet. You need to read up about Norse Mythology like Yoshida has told us to. Maybe play the Norse God of War games as they are really fun and Yoshida is a really big God of War fan himself that's a big inspiration for FFXVI, so you will quickly see the inspiration for Evercold. Then should probably understand how Reaper fits into the more creepy/horror aspects of Norse Myth thematically. Scandinavian Lore is notably creepy and weird. I say this as a half-Scandinavian whose European side has made me do some pretty creepy... stuff, so I'm not bullshitting here lol.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

And this just makes no sense but you probably don't have the context yet. You need to read up about Norse Mythology like Yoshida has told us to. Maybe play the Norse God of War games as they are really fun and Yoshida is a really big God of War fan himself that's a big inspiration for FFXVI, so you will quickly see the inspiration for Evercold. Then should probably understand how Reaper fits into the more creepy/horror aspects of Norse Myth thematically. Scandinavian Lore is notably creepy and weird. I say this as a half-Scandinavian whose European side has made me do some pretty creepy... stuff, so I'm not bullshitting here lol.

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Completely different game dude, FF Reaper is nothing like that nor does the trailer WoL have that personality he’s just a stand-in John Final Fantasy. Obviously those goes were good, but I don’t see how this interpretation fits with any Expansion so far including Evercold.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Completely different game dude, FF Reaper is nothing like that nor does the trailer WoL have that personality he’s just a stand-in John Final Fantasy. Obviously those goes were good, but I don’t see how this interpretation fits with any Expansion so far including Evercold.

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Sure a completely different game but both use the exact same mythology as inspiration. Yoshida is a huge God of War fan I am not making this up, that's literally a big reason why he made FFXVI the way he did. If you're trying to outright deny the Norse Mythology influence in Evercold then I'm not sure if this is a serious discussion anymore, but I can't tell if you are.

Source:

Q: Can you talk a little bit about some of the games that have maybe inspired or influenced the development of Final Fantasy 16? So personally I see a little bit of God of War and The Witcher, and I'm curious if they were references for you while you were developing it.

Yoshida: I love the two games, especially God of War. The craziness of the boss battles in God of War, when it was a more traditional action game, is just... The game design is so different for each stage, and the boss is so unique, everything is made with power, and you can feel the power. So, while I personally also really like the most recent God of War games, I look back further to the original God of Wars, and especially the boss battles in those, how the boss battles are all crazy, they're all different designs for each, they're all unique, they're all over the top, and in getting inspiration from that and creating our Eikon versus Eikon battles to kind of have that same fee

The Witcher is a good shout also as that definitely has some inspiration in the trailer and again has Norse Mythology influence. I don't think we will explore Rated M themes in Evercold though as that is more of a XVI thing being the only Rated M FF lol.

FF Reaper lore isn't really established yet as it's an original Job that doesn't really have a distinct identity in XIV so far due to the various interpretations. Also, did we watch the same cutscene in patch 7.5 where Halmarut directly references Zenos and conjures his Scythe while hinting that our WoL isn't this wholesome good-doer anymore and now has their own selfish desires they want to fulfill? Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub3sjiuDhwk. It sounds like the WoL will be doing a lot more things on their own from now on, which fits Reaper thematically as this lone wolf FF Job. It's not like they're forcing Reaper because there is no other Jobs as an option as I'm sure the new Valkyrie Job and the Crossbow Job will fit Evercold's themes. There is clearly an obvious reason why the WoL is a Reaper that will be explored in 9.0. Probably the most thematic the WoL has been since Dark Knight in Shadowbringers.

If you don't like what they are selling, that's totally fine! I'm just not sure why we are outright denying it exists. I guess you'll realize at Berlin or something if the initial trailer wasn't obvious enough to convince you that the Reaper is the WoL. I mean rewatch it for yourself when you can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk3rfUC80DE

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I'm also not sold on Dancer, but WHM I disagree with. It's very possible to make a WHM that looks badass in a trailer. Same with any of the Healers

I think you just have a preference, and you're insisting that advertising requires catering to that preference to be successful, but it doesn't necessarily have to.

Also, you say EC needs to be a big win for them, and that 'WOL being a DNC/WHM isn't going to be that', how is the WOL being a RPR going to cause EC to be a big win? We saw WOL being a VPR for DT and DT wasn't a big win, so maybe we could equally say 'oh actually maybe people are tired of Melee/Tanks being the Trailer Job for 5 expansions in a row, we should try something different'?

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I also don’t really understand how the WoL being any specific job in the trailer would make an expansion a big win. The trailer doesn’t affect game play, and whether the WoL is a Ninja, Warrior, Dancer, or WHM doesn’t change how I feel about the expansion itself.

Maybe that’s just me, but I’ve never tied my excitement for an expansion to the trailer job. Would it be nice to not always have Melee DPS? For sure, but again, it's just a trailer, not the game itself. Trailer could be the hypest things ever and the expansion for it could be mid.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I'm also not sold on Dancer, but WHM I disagree with. It's very possible to make a WHM that looks badass in a trailer. Same with any of the Healers

I think you just have a preference, and you're insisting that advertising requires catering to that preference to be successful, but it doesn't necessarily have to.

Also, you say EC needs to be a big win for them, and that 'WOL being a DNC/WHM isn't going to be that', how is the WOL being a RPR going to cause EC to be a big win? We saw WOL being a VPR for DT and DT wasn't a big win, so maybe we could equally say 'oh actually maybe people are tired of Melee/Tanks being the Trailer Job for 5 expansions in a row, we should try something different'?

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I mean the problem with Viper is that it was barely even featured in Dawntrail MSQ. The WoL themselves were barely in the MSQ since it was all about Wuk Lamat! They killed GJJ who was a VPR in the middle of expansion after we barely even got to know him, one of the dumbest deaths in XIV history but his solo instance was cool. Sure Zoraal Ja is a VPR but again he's barely even in the MSQ and his writing is questionable at best. The problem with Dawntrail was that the MSQ was just bad, Viper never even had a chance or got any lore outside of the Job Quest. Also Pictomancer, what even is that? It's barely in the MSQ! Viper is still the most popular DPS despite all of this so clearly it's a success to them. They saw Dawntrail's reception and still decided to make the WoL Melee again, so what does that indicate to you? This is like saying Archer was a bad WoL Job choice in 1.0 because that version of the game was horrible! It's not really a fair discussion.

All of the other Expansions have had proper Job representation besides like Paladin in Endwalker since that Job has the worst lore in existence to be honest with y'all, but it still perfectly fit Endwalker's main theme which was Hope.

I completely acknowledge that the WoL Job can be anything as this is literally how they treat it in-game. I personally would want the WoL to be a Machinist in 9.0 if it is actually FFVII themed, but y'all also have to be able to acknowledge why they've only done Melees so far as there various reasons that go beyond the most basic which is Marketing. The Melee Jobs they've chosen for the WoL have been the best thematic fit for each Expansion so far, it's not like they are just picking these Jobs at random and they all happen to be all Melee. I sympathize y'alls frustration but we need to be able to at least acknowledge the WHY before we can have change.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

If you don't like what they are selling, that's totally fine! I'm just not sure why we are outright denying it exists. I guess you'll realize at Berlin or something if the initial trailer wasn't obvious enough to convince you that the Reaper is the WoL. I mean rewatch it for yourself when you can:

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You seem to think I don’t actually believe meteor is a reaper in Evercold’s trailer and I’m trying to argue why he might be something else? I don’t know what you’re reading, but you’re certainly not reading anything I wrote.

We have already seen him appear as a Reaper in the teaser. No one’s questioning or debating that. I’m asking that we stop only representing tanks and melee DPS jobs in the future and show some love to the other 11–soon to be 12 jobs in the game.

Dragoon, Monk and Samurai, Dark Knight, and Paladin all had strong reasons to fit the theme of the expansions the appeared in, but with Viper and now Reaper, it’s started to feel as if they are intentionally ignoring non-melee jobs. The fact that everyone seems to give a different reason for Reaper proves this to me. The theme isn’t strong enough to generate a cohesive response, which would not be the case if I tried to question Dragoon through Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

I also don’t really understand how the WoL being any specific job in the trailer would make an expansion a big win. The trailer doesn’t affect game play, and whether the WoL is a Ninja, Warrior, Dancer, or WHM doesn’t change how I feel about the expansion itself.

Maybe that’s just me, but I’ve never tied my excitement for an expansion to the trailer job. Would it be nice to not always have Melee DPS? For sure, but again, it's just a trailer, not the game itself. Trailer could be the hypest things ever and the expansion for it could be mid.

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The way I see it today after watching how these devs handles non-meele/tanks, it's more like poking around to see if they actually give any one or two f*** about the role's (read: healer) dreaded state from different angle. The... for the lack of better word - conventionally 'attractive to market'-jobs/roles gets all the love. It's like "Oh so you don't care about my gameplay 80% of the time. Can I have at least 20% of nice things even if it's just on aesthetic front?"-question.

I've said it in past similar thread: if they can't even churn out their creativity juice for any of the caster DPSes role i.e. make the main poster guy at least represent one of these jobs even if it's just briefly, then there's no hope they would be able... or rather, want to extend a crumb of said gesture to the healers. Because devs always think these jobs belongs to the backline where no one would care what they do so long the frontliners gets all the full glory and spotlight. And unfortunately that's a sentiment shared by some of their own playerbase & it further reinforces the stigma.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You seem to think I don’t actually believe meteor is a reaper in Evercold’s trailer and I’m trying to argue why he might be something else? I don’t know what you’re reading, but you’re certainly not reading anything I wrote.

We have already seen him appear as a Reaper in the teaser. No one’s questioning or debating that. I’m asking that we stop only representing tanks and melee DPS jobs in the future and show some love to the other 11–soon to be 12 jobs in the game.

Dragoon, Monk and Samurai, Dark Knight, and Paladin all had strong reasons to fit the theme of the expansions the appeared in, but with Viper and now Reaper, it’s started to feel as if they are intentionally ignoring non-melee jobs. The fact that everyone seems to give a different reason for Reaper proves this to me. The theme isn’t strong enough to generate a cohesive response, which would not be the case if I tried to question Dragoon through Paladin.

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Reaper has a strong thematic fit for Evercold. Who cares what these other people say, I am a legitimate Reaper main who knows a lot about Norse Mythology and I can assure you that it's defintely the best thematic option here out of the 21 existing Jobs. You just can't see it yet which is fine and why I told you to read up on Norse Mythology since Yoshida said himself in a Q&A after Fanfest. They also haven't showed much content yet they only showed the Reaper as the WoL, so we don't have full context at all yet. I also reminded you about the 7.5 cutscene where there was two clear intentional moments that had a parallel between Zenos and the WoL despite: When Halmarut compared the WoL to Zenos asking them if they have selfish desires in their journey and when the WoL looked at the Moon the same exact way Zenos did in Trail to the Heavens. What was Zenos' job? Reaper.

It's a much stronger fit than Viper in Dawntrail which is probably the weakest out of any Expansion despite still being the best choice considering the trailer only showcased Tural content and not Alexandria and Viper is supposed to be this charismatic Job that gives off this whimsical feeling in the Melee role almost like you are on Vacation.

I know way too much about Norse mythology (thanks mimir) and I still don’t see why reaper is well thematically connected to it

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I know way too much about Norse mythology (thanks mimir) and I still don’t see why reaper is well thematically connected to it

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Then again I don't think you know that much about Norse Mythology, why do y'all think they chose Reaper over every Job? Have you played Ragnarok by chance?

No I decided to randomly only stop at 2018 and never played ragnarok like a normal person………

Of course I’ve played ragnarok

And right now I’m struggling to come up with a justification why emo farmer matches Norse mythology and not “it’s about the only melee meteor hasn’t been”

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Reaper has a strong thematic fit for Evercold. Who cares what these other people say, I am a legitimate Reaper main who knows a lot about Norse Mythology and I can assure you that it's defintely the best thematic option here out of the 21 existing Jobs. You just can't see it yet which is fine and why I told you to read up on Norse Mythology since Yoshida said himself in a Q&A after Fanfest. They also haven't showed much content yet they only showed the Reaper as the WoL, so we don't have full context at all yet. I also reminded you about the 7.5 cutscene where there was two clear intentional moments that had a parallel between Zenos and the WoL despite: When Halmarut compared the WoL to Zenos asking them if they have selfish desires in their journey and when the WoL looked at the Moon the same exact way Zenos did in Trail to the Heavens. What was Zenos' job? Reaper.

It's a much stronger fit than Viper in Dawntrail which is probably the weakest out of any Expansion despite still being the best choice considering the trailer only showcased Tural content and not Alexandria and Viper is this lax

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Oh, you play Reaper? Pardon me, I didn’t realize we had a celebrity with a PhD in the chat. My mistake.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

No I decided to randomly only stop at 2018 and never played ragnarok like a normal person………

Of course I’ve played ragnarok

And right now I’m struggling to come up with a justification why emo farmer matches Norse mythology and not “it’s about the only melee meteor hasn’t been”

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I've already explained this multiple times in this thread but I'll do it again I guess since you haven't read them:

First I will have to ask you to look at this for convenience sake: https://imgur.com/a/DCH7aFe

Obviously what I am about to say is all speculation and they will not copy Norse Mythology 1:1, but it's clearly themed around Norse Mythology.

In The Fourth the Sky Islands are supposed to be the Norse Realms. The land we see in the trailer with the Snowstorm is probably the equivalent of Midgard which they had to abandon due to uninhabitable weather, fleeing to the Sky Islands. If all the Nine Realms are explorable it makes sense that we will eventually end up exploring the equivalent of the underworld Helheim, which is the land of the dead that is under the frozen lands that is Midgard. This is probably the early favorite for being the Final Zone in Evercold.

A central theme of Norse Mythology is obviously, Death. You see this in God of War where there are a bunch of dead spirits roaming the various Realms and you typically need to fight or help them. Obviously in FFXIV the Reaper is the Job that is most synonymous with Death besides probably Dark Knight. Obviously Reapers in a general context are supposed to be the arbiter of Death as when you see one you are die. In XIV this isn't 1:1 but the Job quest and Reaper lore does a pretty good job establishing this identity. The villain in the Job questline is pretty insane if you remember him. It's pretty poetic that the finale of the Reaper questline is in Coerthas Western Highlands which is a winter zone with a lot of Death surrounding it. Go replay the Reaper questline before Evercold if you haven't, very good stuff.

Another theme with Norse Mythology is Possession, I shouldn't need to explain this if you have played God of War. Reaper is thematically involved with Possession as letting a Voidsent possess you is the main gameplay of the Job and this is magnified further when Enshrouding. I'm pretty sure at one point Zenos does end up possessing us during In From The Cold and we almost die. Yes I think a Dancer and White Mage would fit this theming so much, wow everyone.

Evercold will probably be a more creepy expansion if they are basing it on Norse Mythology and Reaper fits this horror identity better than most Jobs.

A notable theme with Reaper is that it's this lone wolf of the XIV Jobs. We clearly see this with Zenos in Endwalker as he struggled with his own isolation as he truly believed he had no equal and was superior to everyone besides the WoL. Therefore he ends up hunting the WoL at all costs to fulfill his own selfish desires even if that meant bringing his home, Etheirys, to ruin by working with Fandaniel to render The Final Days upon the Star. Throughout Endwalker he surpasses his humanoid limits and does multiple events that were originally considered impossible like possessing our body to torture us, awakening Zodiark with the intention of being his vessel to defeat us, and following us to the edge of the universe to have his final battle. By all means Zenos surpassed all expectations and was supposed to be XIV's interpretation of a Grim Reaper as an entity who is this personification of Death but in a more PG Final Fantasy manner. They will probably dig much deeper with the Zenos and WoL parallels in Evercold as what I am talking about was directly referenced in 7.5 by Halmarut. I'm assuming a main theme of Evercold is that the WoL will struggle interally with their evil side and more selfish desires which is very fitting of a Reaper. After Dawntrail I believe the WoL wants to enjoy themselves again by any means and is tired of saving the world for the tenth time, which isn't necessarily bad and we'll see how it plays out in Evercold.

Obviously this isn't all that Norse Mythology has, there is a lot of awesome parts which we will experience in the Sky Islands. Expansion is themed a lot on FFXIII which is unsurprisingly a Norse inspired game. Especially since they are covering Fimbulwinter and potentially Ragnarok which are the awful parts of Norse Mythology we shouldn't be surprised if this Expansion is more on the creepy and high stakes side.

If you still can't comprehend everything that's totally fine as they will reveal much more at Berlin and Tokyo obviously. NA Fanfest wasn't heavy on the story at all. But again they picked Reaper as the canonical Job for a multitude of reasons. They weren't throwing darts and it happened to land on Reaper. 7.5 MSQ makes this clear and the Evercold trailer make this clear.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Oh, you play Reaper? Pardon me, I didn’t realize we had a celebrity with a PhD in the chat. My mistake.

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Yes it's my favorite Job in XIV just like you how enjoy Sage. Is something wrong with that?

………what?

Your evidence is that the sky islands mentioned in the trailer will be like the Norse realms and Norse mythology has a lot of death?

RPR the job doesn’t even have anything to do with the western centric concept of the grim reaper in its lore and almost every mythology has to do with death, like that’s what religion is; humanity attempting to come to terms with our own mortality.

Like I could make the same argument that this is actually Greek mythology. The realm of the gods atop mt Olympus is often depicted as sitting on top of floating clouds that sit around the mountain- sky islands. There is also a lot of death in Greek mythology, they have their own underworld, we could explore Tartarus because “that’s obviously somewhere we could go”

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

………what?

Your evidence is that the sky islands mentioned in the trailer will be like the Norse realms and Norse mythology has a lot of death?
”

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It's okay to be illiterate, I doubt you even read my message. I also now don't believe you've played the God of War games or you just rushed through them.

Again they have showed basically nothing outside of the Concept Art and you will probably have this "Eureka" moment during Berlin, Tokyo or when the Expansion finally launches where you realize that your two messages were really dumb in retrospect. They aren't going to spoil the plot for you, but the theming and identity is apparent whether you agree with it or not.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Yes it's my favorite Job in XIV just like you how enjoy Sage. Is something wrong with that?

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There’s nothing wrong with it at all. It’s just not really a good justification for why your interpretation of Reaper’s thematic significance is narratively sound over anyone else’s. Again, compare it to Dragoon, Monk, Samurai, Dark Knight, or Paladin… You don’t need to be a Dragoon main and lore head to understand why Dragoon was a meaningful pick for Heavensward.

Jesus ascended to heaven, heaven is depicted as floating islands in the clouds, Christian mythology is full of death and how people handle death, it’s also full of possession including possession of the prophets and the evildoer’s

EVERCOLD IS DANTE’s INFERNO 2.0 LETS GO

It's confirmed to be a Physical Ranged and a Tank.

We don't need another melee until at least 10.0 in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Then should probably understand how Reaper fits into the more creepy/horror aspects of Norse Myth thematically. Scandinavian Lore is notably creepy and weird. I say this as a half-Scandinavian whose European side has made me do some pretty creepy... stuff, so I'm not bullshitting here lol.

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As a full European with no American side myself, reading this just made my day.