Do We Remember That a Game Is Meant to Be Fun?

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Originally Posted by Valence

What an interesting view, if just a tad narrow.

Glad you enjoy raiding though!



Certainly, but that also depends on what you enjoy getting challenged on and what you don't.
You speak about rotations to optimize for example, but they're in fact literally braindead for the most part. Jobs are all the same, play all the same, and encounter design is all about one single thing—and it's not its battle system.

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Well and thats just wrong.
Rotations are not easy, jobs dont play the same. If you do ultimates your rotations easily get warped and you need to adjust them around the fight.
Sometimes you hold bursts, often the 60sec windows disalign with the 2min bursts and then you need to figure out a way to fix it again. I think what you meant to say is that the formula each job is designed around is samey, but no job actually plays the same in this game.
Its so easy to tell when i play monk or drg, or rdm or blm. To me thats very different.
Also talking about casters now, my main role. Mapping your mobility is different in every single encounter. I dont know how you play the game, but i dont want to lose a single gcd ever and accomplishing that is not exactly easy or braindead. I know there are enough people running away with their aoe markers or losing 5 gcds even though they could greed for uptime and that is actually what causes friction. Doing your rotation while doing mechanics. And that is what like 95% of players still cant manage.
And as long as that is the case the devs will simplify the game, because in their eyes players still struggles with playing their jobs properly.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Rotations are not easy, jobs dont play the same. If you do ultimates your rotations easily get warped and you need to adjust them around the fight.

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Godwin’s Law (FFXIV Edition): ‘The longer a discussion continues the higher the likelihood that someone will argue ‘just play ultimates if you want to have fun’

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

And as long as that is the case the devs will simplify the game, because in their eyes players still struggles with playing their jobs properly.

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You’re doing ultimates and your party members literally can’t even do their rotation? Sounds more like a party problem than part of the actual game design lol.

Also, cause-and-effect. Are people all just inherently ‘bad’ and ‘unskilled’ and all job design should be forever neutered in retaliation against these filthy casuals (doing ultimates) who can’t press buttons?

Or are job rotations and mechanics (and fight design) so uninspired and homogenized at this point that it breeds nothing but complacency in players that then transfers to higher level contents because they’re still going in with the mindset of ‘it’s so easy I can do literally nothing and still win’?

If job design was actually encouraging players to consider the encounter / situation / context relative to other players and the boss instead of being streamlined to the point of being a literal conveyor belt of abilities (that from what I hear is also extremely easy to automate precisely because of its fixed nature), would the ‘average skill level’ be so low? Is it literally an inherent thing that must be addressed with current job design? Or is something causing it?

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Originally Posted by Connor

Godwin’s Law (FFXIV Edition): ‘The longer a discussion continues the higher the likelihood that someone will argue ‘just play ultimates if you want to have fun’




You’re doing ultimates and your party members literally can’t even do their rotation? Sounds more like a party problem than part of the actual game design lol.

Also, cause-and-effect. Are people all just inherently ‘bad’ and ‘unskilled’ and all job design should be forever neutered in retaliation against these filthy casuals (doing ultimates) who can’t press buttons?

Or are job rotations and mechanics (and fight design) so uninspired and homogenized at this point that it breeds nothing but complacency in players that then transfers to higher level contents because they’re still going in with the mindset of ‘it’s so easy I can do literally nothing and still win’?

If job design was actually encouraging players to consider the encounter / situation / context relative to other players and the boss instead of being streamlined to the point of being a literal conveyor belt of abilities (that from what I hear is also extremely easy to automate precisely because of its fixed nature), would the ‘average skill level’ be so low? Is it literally an inherent thing that must be addressed with current job design? Or is something causing it?

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I didnt say that my party members cant do their rotations. Dont know why you make up such things or you just misread probably.I cleared all ultimates, and i didnt 'just clear', i cleared them really well. You cant really clear the newer ultimates without knowing your rotation. Also why do so many people have to use tools to clear high end content? Is it maybe too hard for them?

The average player you meet in a trial roulette cant do their rotation (and savage pf). How often do you see tanks running to narnia with a tank buster? I see it all the time.
Fight design has improved a lot this expansion. It actually depends how well tanks can position bosses, just look at m10s. Melees gotta work for their uptime now, too. Just look at m11s. Fights have become more stressful and hectic, too.

Casters, although they have a lot of mobility tools now still can easily run out of mobility tools in this tier.
The only 'free' role is physrange. Nothing threatens them to lose uptime ever and they have unlimited movement.
What i'm trying to say here is if you dont engage with high end content you dont understand it either. Healers are actually struggling to heal m11s! Who would have imagined that?
The healer strike was partly successful i guess. You wont feel the changes they did in the standard no difficulty roulettes. It impacts the highest end of difficulty.
And homogenization comes from the playerbase's choice of hyper balance. Thats just the side effect. As soon as a job "underperforms" its players scream for buffs and that sometimes involves homogenization.
I'm not talking about the 20 people on the forums critisizing jobs, i'm talking about those 95% of players that still struggle with their job's rotation.
Look at Valigatmanda ex, Nin couldnt use tcj in burst because a mech happened, tcj gets full movement. Ninjas complained that its bad design that they cant put their strongest ability in burst, so thats why the change happened. And that was not necessarily inspired by a forum post (maybe by jp because i read the proposal to change tcj a few times there) but it happened in game, in the trial itself when ninjas were complaining.

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Originally Posted by Khiel

Thank you for reading ❤️

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There are some things that you said I def resonate with; however, this game had the same formulaic release and event types since it first started in 1.0.
The fact that you found them once fun and now it's not the case anymore, it just means that you moved away from this type of fun. FF14 is no longer a game for you, and it's fine.

There were some shifts in the game, but it is not possible to cater to every single person out there. If you cater to everyone, you will end up catering to no one in the end.
Some people come and go; it's the ebb and flow of things. I wish you well.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

I didnt say that my party members cant do their rotations. Dont know why you make up such things.
The average player you meet in a trial roulette cant do their rotation (and pf). How often do you see tanks running to narnia with a tank buster? I see it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Doing your rotation while doing mechanics. And that is what like 95% of players still cant manage.

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No but you literally did though. ‘Not doing your rotation while doing mechanics’….is different from not doing your rotation? So what, they’re all 100 gold parses on a dummy then turn grey once a mechanic appears? I’m skeptical.

Uhh…I can’t remember the last time I saw that? Certainly not on the regular lol.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Fight design has improved a lot this expansion. It actually depends how well tanks can position bosses, just look at m10s. Melees gotta work for their uptime now, too. Just look at m11s. Fights have become more stressful and hectic, too.
Casters, although they have a lot of mobility tools now still can easily run out of mobility tools in this tier.

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So, ‘if you want to have fun go play savage’. Wonderful advice!

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

The only 'free' role is physrange. Nothing threatens them to lose uptime ever and they have unlimited movement.

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And they literally struggle to justify their existence in parties because of it lol; ‘we’re here to give you a 1% passive bonus’ is not a fun or interesting design for a subrole.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

What i'm trying to say here is if you dont engage with high end content you dont understand it either. Healers are actually struggling to heal m11s! Who would have imagined that?
The healer strike was partly successful i guess. You wont feel the changes they did in the standard no difficulty roulettes. It impacts the highest end of difficulty.

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So…we’re still circling back to ‘if you want to have fun just play savage/ultimates’ lol. Do you have any actual arguments?

The argument is that you are too bad to clear actual hard content and therefore have no idea what you're even talking about. I have seen you running around like a headless chicken in roulettes, so yes maybe jobs get simplified for people like you....
The normal content is not engaging for most because it is not meant to be engaging because it is supposed to be easily clearable. If you want to actually engage with the battle system in depth then you have to do content that forces you to do so. And as soon as hard mechs happen people will be focused on them. Healers dropping dots, melees breaking combo, casters running around without doing anything. So yes obviously the difficulty lies in doing mechs and rotation at the same time. Of course you wouldnt understand but maybe give it a shot. Try to clear the savage tier, or try FRU or TOP or DSR.
Then we can talk about difficulty

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

The argument is that you are too bad to clear actual hard content and therefore have no idea what you're even talking about. I have seen you running around like a headless chicken in roulettes, so yes maybe jobs get simplified for people like you....
The normal content is not engaging for most because it is not meant to be engaging because it is supposed to be easily clearable. If you want to actually engage with the battle system in depth then you have to do content that forces you to do so. And as soon as hard mechs happen people will be focused on them. Healers dropping dots, melees breaking combo, casters running around without doing anything. So yes obviously the difficulty lies in doing mechs and rotation at the same time. Of course you wouldnt understand but maybe give it a shot. Try to clear the savage tier, or try FRU or TOP or DSR.
Then we can talk about difficulty

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Ah yes, so we hide behind ‘you’re too bad a player to have an opinion’. lol sorry, I didn’t see the disclaimer when I signed up to the forums saying ‘gold parsers only’. Still not hearing any actual arguments besides some extremely predictable ‘I’m raider ur casual [and therefore have no right to an opinion]’ platitudes.

And frankly I don’t really give a shit if you saw me dead on the floor 100% of the fight. I don’t need some random internet person’s approval to post on this video game forum lol. “I saw you in a roulette one time without context and you were shit’ really isn’t the ‘gotcha’ you think it is.

‘Normal content shouldn’t be engaging’…and you really don’t see how that has an effect on people coming into savages/ultimates? How job design relative to encounter design is so different between the two that people go into savage/ultimates with the same sense of complacency? I mean, if you want to be the cause of your problems then keep advocating that everything is fine and the casuals should just go do ultimate lol

I'm not talking about logs or anything, stop derailing the discussion please.
My advice was to try savage and ultimate because it is a very interesting facette this game offers. Dont see how advising to try something new is bad.
The devs dont design ultimates and savage for 10 people, they design it with the intent for everyone to try it. It is fine if you are not interested in it or are too bad or whatever.
And i didnt say that the game shouldnt be engaging at lower levels, but it isnt engaging at lower levels. If i want to feel engaged i do the content that makes me feel engaged. Is it so hard to understand? My advice was honest. It wasnt meant to be an elitist raider comment or whatever, just a simple "try it if you havent"

For me that is where the fun in this game lies. I enjoy raiding and FFXIV is the best game for that, absolutely! If you dont enjoy it then thats fine. Just do the things you enjoy in the game. For me personally though this game is about raiding. It makes sense to me seeing how much raiding centered content they release.
If there is nothing you enjoy then quit and move on. Complaining wont change it, we all know that already. Also i havent seen you give any advice at all what they should do to have fun... Why even bother commenting if you have nothing useful to say?

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

I'm not talking about logs or anything, stop derailing the discussion please.

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‘You are too bad to clear actual hard content’…’oh but I’m not talking about your logs or performance just innocently mentioning that time you were in a roulette and ran around like a headless chicken’. Or you’re blatantly trying to characterise me as a ‘bad player’ because you somehow think that completely invalidates any argument I’ve made? Say it with your chest.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

My advice was to try savage and ultimate because it is a very interesting facette this game offers. Dont see how advising to try something new is bad.

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Because it completely invalidates the opinions of others? ‘It doesn’t matter if you don’t have fun elsewhere because savage and ultimates are fun’

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

The devs dont design ultimates and savage for 10 people, they design it with the intent for everyone to try it. It is fine if you are not interested in it or are too bad or whatever.

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So much for ‘I’m not talking about logs or performance’ lol. But you feel the need to point out that people can be ‘too bad’ for it.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

And i didnt say that the game shouldnt be engaging at lower levels, but it isnt engaging at lower levels. If i want to feel engaged i do the content that makes me feel engaged. Is it so hard to understand? My advice was honest. It wasnt meant to be an elitist raider comment or whatever, just a simple "try it if you havent"

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‘Saying you’re a bad player and referencing the time you were bad in a roulette and using it to argue that you can’t/don’t have a real opinion because you are literally incapable of understanding the world of savage/ultimates but it wasn’t an elitist comment just honest advice’. Really?

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

For me that is where the fun in this game lies. I enjoy raiding and FFXIV is the best game for that, absolutely! If you dont enjoy it then thats fine. Just do the things you enjoy in the game. For me personally though this game is about raiding. It makes sense to me seeing how much raiding centered content they release.
If there is nothing you enjoy then quit and move on. Complaining wont change it, we all know that already. Also i havent seen you give any advice at all what they should do to have fun... Why even bother commenting if you have nothing useful to say?

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My advice is to adjust job design and encounter design relative to what the many, many, many players are asking for? Like maybe jobs are too simplistic, and general content is too easy? Maybe one of the many people saying these things might actually be right? But I suppose I’m so bad a player I’m also incapable of deferring to the opinions of others who have done that content.

Complaining has changed countless things over the game’s lifespan lol. Energy Drain? Kaiten? Red Mage combo becoming ranged? Bard song buffs? It’s a video game feedback forum; complaining is like 75% of the point.

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Originally Posted by Connor

‘You are too bad to clear actual hard content’…’oh but I’m not talking about your logs or performance just innocently mentioning that time you were in a roulette and ran around like a headless chicken’. Or you’re blatantly trying to characterise me as a ‘bad player’ because you somehow think that completely invalidates any argument I’ve made? Say it with your chest.




Because it completely invalidates the opinions of others? ‘It doesn’t matter if you don’t have fun elsewhere because savage and ultimates are fun’




So much for ‘I’m not talking about logs or performance’ lol. But you feel the need to point out that people can be ‘too bad’ for it.




‘Saying you’re a bad player and referencing the time you were bad in a roulette and using it I argue that you can’t/don’t have a real opinion because you are literally incapable of understanding the world of savage/ultimates but it wasn’t an elitist comment just honest advice’. Really?




My advice is to adjust job design and encounter design relative to what the many, many, many players are asking for? Like maybe jobs are too simplistic, and general content is too easy? Maybe one of the many people saying these things might actually be right? But I suppose I’m so bad a player I’m also incapable of deferring to the opinions of others who have done that content.

Complaining has changed countless things over the game’s lifespan lol. Energy Drain? Kaiten? Red Mage combo becoming ranged? Bard song buffs? It’s a video game feedback forum; complaining is like 75% of the point.

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Are logs so important to you that you cant stop misunderstanding everything i said? Are you that insecure just because you got called out?
Pretty paranoid.
I play on console, so i dont really care about logs. If someone parses i look up my parse to see how i did. Thats normal i think.
If my opinion is that savage or ultimates are fun, how does it invalidate others opinions? Please explain.
I nwver said anything like your opinions dont matter if you dont like ultimates? Stop twisting the narrative already.
You are allowed to have opinions, but if you think you can talk about raids even though you dont raid then i think that opinion becomes less valuable.
Everyone can talk and have opinions about astrophysics, but if youre not an astrophysician then how valuable is that opinion?
And no im not comparing raiding to astrophysics, because i know that this is what you would understand again.....
"The many, many, many players are asking for" aka the loud minorty..... 20 people on the forums and a couple of reddit people, wow.
And no complaining does not stop simplification, complaining homogenizes.
If i made a thread about why bard still has dots even though dots dont work in this game anymore then it would be more likely that bard loses its dots rather than them changing the game so that dots are more impactful again.
And your advice isnt really helping people to find things to do that they can have fun with again.
Its more an advice to the devs that will never read this feedback anyway.

But i think my point is clarified and i wont reply to your ragebait anymore...
If you havent tried savage, ultimate, try it, maybe you find it fun. If not then that is ok. Not forcing anyone here.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Are logs so important to you that you cant stop misunderstanding everything i said? Are you that insecure just because you got called out?
Pretty paranoid.

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‘Logs and performance ’. One of those things is not like the others. Performance being, how they perform mechanics and the like? Not their literal dps.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

I play on console, so i dont really care about logs. If someone parses i look up my parse to see how i did. Thats normal i think.
If my opinion is that savage or ultimates are fun, how does it invalidate others opinions? Please explain.

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Because the point isn’t that ‘ultimates are/aren’t’ fun, it’s that ‘everything else isn’t’.) So saying ‘but savage/ultimates are fun’ is completely ignoring the issue. Just like saying ‘95% of players can’t do rotations and mechanics at the same time therefore job design should remain the same’ ignores the fact of why that’s coming about in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

I nwver said anything like your opinions dont matter if you dont like ultimates? Stop twisting the narrative already. You are allowed to have opinions, but if you think you can talk about raids even though you dont raid then i think that opinion becomes less valuable.
Everyone can talk and have opinions about astrophysics, but if youre not an astrophysician then how valuable is that opinion?
And no im not comparing raiding to astrophysics, because i know that this is what you would understand again....

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And it’s not possible in your view for someone to study and understand astrophysics without literally being an astrophysicist? Perhaps by, say, deferring to the research and understanding of others.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

"The many, many, many players are asking for" aka the loud minorty..... 20 people on the forums and a couple of reddit people, wow.

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And what, the ‘silent majority’ is millions of people neither seen nor heard who all love the game just the way it is? Well my silent majority says something needs to change in encounter and job design to make it more about ‘fun’ and less about ‘raid balancing’. They’re also invisible.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

And no complaining does not stop simplification, complaining homogenizes.
If i made a thread about why bard still has dots even though dots dont work in this game anymore then it would be more likely that bard loses its dots rather than them changing the game so that dots are more impactful again.
And your advice isnt really helping people to find things to do that they can have fun with again.
Its more an advice to the devs that will never read this feedback anyway.

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And if people then complained about the lack DoTs (which they would)…they would immediately be back in the game. Like Energy Drain was, or Bard’s song buffs. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see Kaiten or Viper’s thing that disappeared idk a dot or something also come back; there’s been plenty of complaints about it.

Complaining ‘homogenises’ because so many players (including savage/ultimate ones and casuals) complain that they want more things homogenized. ‘Why should X have a DoT when Y doesn’t?’ ‘Why should Picto have strengths/weaknesses that other jobs don’t in downtime’ ‘why should Red Mage have to go into melee during burst’, etc etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Connor

‘Logs and performance ’. One of those things is not like the others. Performance being, how they perform mechanics and the like? Not their literal dps.




Because the point isn’t that ‘ultimates are/aren’t’ fun, it’s that ‘everything else isn’t’.) So saying ‘but savage/ultimates are fun’ is completely ignoring the issue. Just like saying ‘95% of players can’t do rotations and mechanics at the same time therefore job design should remain the same’ ignores the fact of why that’s coming about in the first place.



And it’s not possible in your view for someone to study and understand astrophysics without literally being an astrophysicist? Perhaps by, say, deferring to the research and understanding of others.





And what, the ‘silent majority’ is millions of people neither seen nor heard who all love the game just the way it is? Well my silent majority says something needs to change in encounter and job design to make it more about ‘fun’ and less about ‘raid balancing’. They’re also invisible.




And if people then complained about the lack DoTs (which they would)…they would immediately be back in the game. Like Energy Drain was, or Bard’s song buffs. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see Kaiten or Viper’s thing that disappeared idk a dot or something also come back; there’s been plenty of complaints about it.

Complaining ‘homogenises’ because so many players (including savage/ultimate ones and casuals) complain that they want more things homogenized. ‘Why should X have a DoT when Y doesn’t?’ ‘Why should Picto have strengths/weaknesses that other jobs don’t in downtime’ ‘why should Red Mage have to go into melee during burst’, etc etc etc.

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Ok actually gotta ask this because i'm curious now.
Why do you think nothing else but ultimates is fun? Who said that?
And please dont pretend i said it, because i didnt. Also how do you know that only ultimates are fun if you havent tried it?

Also the complaining part has got kaiten removed which got huge backlash, so i think complaining makes the game worse? Or not?
Like a lot of the things you listed are changes that got big backlash, rdm ranged melee, kaiten etc
And no i dont think kaiten or the "viper thing" will be back. I think that 8.0 will bring more changes like the recent gnb changes. Making jobs feel more busy, shortening cds to make them feel more "active". People want less risk more reward in this game, less ways to mess up or less punishment for mistakes. At least that is how i perceived things over the past 12 years.
If dots were removed from the game then i would see that as a definite decision not reintroducing them, only maybe in the way like smn has now with slipstream or drk's salted earth or having a dot with a set timer like 60cd but dot ticks for 30sec or so. Essentially being a button you press on cd.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Ok actually gotta ask this because i'm curious now.
Why do you think nothing else but ultimates is fun? Who said that?
And please dont pretend i said it, because i didnt. Also how do you know that only ultimates are fun if you havent tried it?

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Me. I said / am saying it now. In my experience, particularly as a healer, the majority of content ends up being bland and unexciting because of issues with job design, speed of ‘out-gearing’ most content, homogenized and uninspired mechanics (I.E DDR as everyone keeps saying).

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Also the complaining part has got kaiten removed which got huge backlash, so i think complaining makes the game worse? Or not?
Like a lot of the things you listed are changes that got big backlash, rdm ranged melee, kaiten etc
And no i dont think kaiten or the "viper thing" will be back. I think that 8.0 will bring more changes like the recent gnb changes. Making jobs feel more busy, shortening cds to make them feel more "active". People want less risk more reward in this game, less ways to mess up or less punishment for mistakes. At least that is how i perceived things over the past 12 years.

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That’s my point. It’s not the complaining that’s the problem, it’s the things people are complaining about. If they shifted that to be less about ‘balance’ and more about the jobs themselves, it would be beneficial to the overall amount of ‘fun’ in the game. Because regardless of whether it’s right/wrong, devs seems to do it anyway. And frankly, in my opinion, I wouldn’t say players care about whether they can/can’t ‘mess up’ or not. They care about whether it’s ‘fun/interesting/unique/other buzzword’ (also it’s probably like 60% aesthetics lol)

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

If dots were removed from the game then i would see that as a definite decision not reintroducing them, only maybe in the way like smn has now with slipstream or drk's salted earth or having a dot with a set timer like 60cd but dot ticks for 30sec or so. Essentially being a button you press on cd.

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Yet people consistently campaign for every healer to have more DoTs than they do. Should they just give up and accept that ‘one-button filler’ spam is the best they’re going to get because it’s ’a definite decision’? Or are they going to give their opinion regardless of said decision because they disagree with it?

I mean people still ask for DoT Summoner back, and why shouldn’t they? Is it really ok to literally delete an entire playstyle because ‘we’ve made a definite decision [that we don’t like DoTs anymore]’? What about the people who found that fun?

Like, maybe their unwillingness to listen to players outside of ‘savage/ultimate’ balancing and making these ‘definite decisions’ without consulting/considering players is part of the problem? As is generally capitulating to the smallest amount of pressure created by ‘complaining’.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Because the point isn’t that ‘ultimates are/aren’t’ fun, it’s that ‘everything else isn’t’.

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By whose standard, and how do you decide what is fun and what isn't? Maybe it's not fun for you, but I do know a lot of them who are happy with it.

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And if people then complained about the lack DoTs (which they would)…they would immediately be back in the game. Like Energy Drain was, or Bard’s song buffs. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see Kaiten or Viper’s thing that disappeared idk a dot or something also come back; there’s been plenty of complaints about it.

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My dude, you've been playing since 2013, and you still haven't figured it out yet? The game is not trying to appeal to everyone. Sure, you might have enjoyed the job's design back in 2013. The game moved away from it. It is what it is. Going backwards is def not the way to go about things, and plus who can tell how jobs will actually be and play in 8.0?

If YOU think that YOU and 10-20 other forum posters represent the silent majority that you talk about, please carry on..

Look now we have a base where i can agree with you. People are complaining about the wrong things thats true, couldnt agree more, but it is also that hyper balance is the dev\\'s chosen design. Maybe if they focused less on balance and more on "identity" in the next expansion jobs would become more fun. But seeing Yoshi say "If you like FF now you will like 8.0" then i dont buy the identity talk at all. In the end jobs will be hyper balanced, smn even got emergency buffs because of jnderperformance in this tier.

If you look at people screaming for pld\\'s divine might and dedicated ranged tools for every tank and viper\\'s uncoiled fury system for all melees i dont really see much identity changes coming. It is always the same. A job has something you want for your job, because it puts another job at an advantage and then you get it added onto all jobs. Best example is gap closers.

I really would like healers to get a bit more dps options and not just 1 button spam, but i think healer kits are already way too bloated and they should address this first.
With how fight design is shifting i dont see a dedicated dot dps job in the near future. As long as the game is all about burst, dots will just fall short, also more and more downtimes get added recently.
A welcome change though i must say is the interesting add phases they implemented in the recent raids! I really liked that. Especially m6s was such a mess and it turned out no one can aoe properly xD
I\\'m sorry to have to bring up the heavensward example again, but i think the devs are still a bit traumatized by the bad balancing in heavensward, job exclusion, toxicity etc. You cant talk about balance without mentioning heavensward\\'s mistakes. That is when the hyper balance design slowly crept into the game.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

By whose standard, and how do you decide what is fun and what isn't? Maybe it's not fun for you, but I do know a lot of them who are happy with it.




My dude, you've been playing since 2013, and you still haven't figured it out yet? The game is not trying to appeal to everyone. Sure, you might have enjoyed the job's design back in 2013. The game moved away from it. It is what it is. Going backwards is def not the way to go about things, and plus who can tell how jobs will actually be and play in 8.0?

If YOU think that YOU and 10-20 other forum posters represent the silent majority that you talk about, please carry on..

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Except, the game is trying pretty hard to try to appeal to everyone.

It is the precisely this reason, why, after well over a decade into the content design pipeline -- They are still in a complete identity crisis with itself. It is also the reason we have this quasi situation with relics where they simultaneously want to try and turn it into a grind, and try to make it as simple as humanly possible (e.g., Tomestone repeatable steps).

I think you underestimate just how many design decisions are ultimately underpinned by "How can we try and please this crevice".

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

By whose standard, and how do you decide what is fun and what isn't? Maybe it's not fun for you, but I do know a lot of them who are happy with it.




My dude, you've been playing since 2013, and you still haven't figured it out yet? The game is not trying to appeal to everyone. Sure, you might have enjoyed the job's design back in 2013. The game moved away from it. It is what it is. Going backwards is def not the way to go about things, and plus who can tell how jobs will actually be and play in 8.0?

If YOU think that YOU and 10-20 other forum posters represent the silent majority that you talk about, please carry on..

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I can definitely see that being true. I have more friends that are satisfied with the game as it is. If you are satisfied then you dont complain, right?
I see the same names here and on reddit complaining about job design, hence why i said it's just a loud minority.
Reverting changes is not the way to go. Something new is the way to go and i dont envy the devs having to find that "new something"
Overall there wont be radical changes in 8.0. That is not their style of handling things. It will be very slow changes over a long time span if i had to guess based on ffxiv's history.

And ultimate is the best content imo ( i know i'm repeating myself)! It is where the devs put the most effort into and can be as creative as they want to.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

By whose standard, and how do you decide what is fun and what isn\\'t? Maybe it\\'s not fun for you, but I do know a lot of them who are happy with it.

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By my own standards. What is fun is literally any kind of job that has a clear and interesting design (and ideally somewhat lore-coherent if possible) that’s at least slightly unique and not several different flavours of ‘homogenized’. Jobs that are more than just following a conveyor belt of the same abilities with the same timings over, and over. Content where healers have an actual reason to exist beyond ‘you deal low dps relative to everyone else and let the tank do your job for you’. Where physical ranged have a reason to exist beyond ‘gives 1% party bonus’. Where jobs can actually be allowed to have strengths/weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

My dude, you\\'ve been playing since 2013, and you still haven\\'t figured it out yet? The game is not trying to appeal to everyone. Sure, you might have enjoyed the job\\'s design back in 2013. The game moved away from it. It is what it is. Going backwards is def not the way to go about things, and plus who can tell how jobs will actually be and play in 8.0?

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Just…lol, to be honest. You really haven’t figured out that ‘trying to appeal to everyone’ is literally the root of the problem? Or one or them at least.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

If YOU think that YOU and 10-20 other forum posters represent the silent majority that you talk about, please carry on..

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Or maybe the whole point about an invisible silent majority was to point out how silly it is to rely on such a thing? I don’t think I represent anyone else but me, and frankly whether others do/don’t agree is irrelevant to me; I’d be giving my opinion anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Look now we have a base where i can agree with you. People are complaining about the wrong things thats true, couldnt agree more, but it is also that hyper balance is the dev\\\\'s chosen design. Maybe if they focused less on balance and more on "identity" in the next expansion jobs would become more fun. But seeing Yoshi say "If you like FF now you will like 8.0" then i dont buy the identity talk at all. In the end jobs will be hyper balanced, smn even got emergency buffs because of jnderperformance in this tier.

If you look at people screaming for pld\\\\'s divine might and dedicated ranged tools for every tank and viper\\\\'s uncoiled fury system for all melees i dont really see much identity changes coming. It is always the same. A job has something you want for your job, because it puts another job at an advantage and then you get it added onto all jobs. Best example is gap closers.

I really would like healers to get a bit more dps options and not just 1 button spam, but i think healer kits are already way too bloated and they should address this first.
With how fight design is shifting i dont see a dedicated dot dps job in the near future. As long as the game is all about burst, dots will just fall short, also more and more downtimes get added recently.
A welcome change though i must say is the interesting add phases they implemented in the recent raids! I really liked that. Especially m6s was such a mess and it turned out no one can aoe properly xD
I\\\\'m sorry to have to bring up the heavensward example again, but i think the devs are still a bit traumatized by the bad balancing in heavensward, job exclusion, toxicity etc. You cant talk about balance without mentioning heavensward\\\\'s mistakes. That is when the hyper balance design slowly crept into the game.

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I’d argue said ‘hyper balance’ is a knee-jerk reaction to what they perceive as player complaints and less ‘a definitive decision’ they’ve made about job design. And it’s putting such constraints on job design / encounter design that it sucks the fun out of content where that ‘hyper-balance’ no longer actually matters.

I mean, look at PvP. It’s not like they’re absolutely against ‘imbalances’ or ‘jobs having clear strengths/weaknesses’ existing in the game, they just don’t want to touch PvE with those things because they fear player backlash or w/e their reasoning is (‘big wigs told us make it easy’, you never know).

Heavensward was a mess balance-wise but at least jobs felt less like ‘playing the role and not the job itself’. And I mean that was even with homogenisation already present like Machinist randomly getting MP/TP regen because Bard has it or Bard getting cast times on weaponskills because Machinist had Gauss Barrel. At least their support was a little different since one was instant but required placement and the other required a short cast time. We don’t even have that anymore; we have everything on a 120 second cooldown and the differences are idk in our imagination lol. My point isn’t ’literally restore us to old content’ it’s ‘maybe take some of what you did then and apply it to now’. I.E loosening up on constraining job design so tightly around ‘are they all balanced for savage’ (and no, not ignoring it entirely either).

And I mean that’s good that ultimates are fun but like why can’t they put that same effort and creativity into other pieces of content? Like Cosmic Exploration or the barely utilised Occult Crescent

I wonder if the lack of interest in content nowadays is in any way related to the general player disconnect with the story and the direction they've taken it in.

I feel like Dawntrail rendered a lot of the lore, world-building and atmosphere of the past arc completely meaningless, and there are no concrete rules or boundaries governing the story anymore. The consequent lack of identity makes the game feel soulless, and without that sense of investment the often tedious reality of MMO grinding becomes more difficult to justify. Yoshi P said something about the demands of the market changing and making the game require less time to play, but I think you find the time for something you actually care about.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I wonder if the lack of interest in content nowadays is in any way related to the general player disconnect with the story and the direction they've taken it in.

I feel like Dawntrail rendered a lot of the lore, world-building and atmosphere of the past arc completely meaningless, and there are no concrete rules or boundaries governing the story anymore. The consequent lack of identity makes the game feel soulless, and without that sense of investment the often tedious reality of MMO grinding becomes more difficult to justify. Yoshi P said something about the demands of the market changing and making the game require less time to play, but I think you find the time for something you actually care about.

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I’d definitely have to agree. Additionally, things like Scholar’s Seraphism that ‘don’t make much sense relative to lore’ just contributes to the whole ‘everything feels the same’ / ‘there’s no life or soul to this’.
To put it dramatically it’s like they’ve forsaken any attempt at ‘identity’ in the story or job design (and mostly encounter design) to try and appeal to the widest demographic possible.

And when the story doesn’t feel engaging or interesting, it’s even harder to forgive issues with job or encounter design when the storyline also gives so little satisfaction in Dawntrail.

The game right now feels very much like a "clock in, study, and clock out" thing to me. The combat has been rendered so bland for their "super amazing encounter designs!" that 90% of the game suffers for it. If I'm not blinded by the VFX during a boss fight, I'm probably dead on the ground from getting hit due to reaction times. I've used the words tedious and tiring in the past when it comes to modern PvE because that's what it feels like to me. So I simply don't do roulettes anymore, and I know I'm not the only one.

The fights feel catered specifically for one subsection of players while completely ignoring the others, because that's where a fight's complexity lies now: centered uniquely on encounters instead of having the jobs do a part of the heavy lifting. If you have trouble with that type of battle content or aren't interested, the community is very eager to show you the door.

For MSQ...I've said my grievances in the DT criticism thread last year, but what's even the point anymore? I still haven't done 7.4's because I simply do not care. The stakes feel childish or non-existent, everything is messy, and I yearn for the days of ARR, HW and StB. Ironically, it feels too shonen-y for me so maybe that's why I don't enjoy it.

And for the OP, I personally enjoy content on the relaxing side. I like Housing (despite having grievances with the systems since I play vanilla - thus not having BtHD), I do some Big Fishing on the side, I enjoy maps night with my FC, I don't mind gathering 999 of an item if a friend needs it and I like PotD. I enjoy community stuff as well like Bozja or even visiting venues to check out how people decorated their pad.

But now the hubs are silent or spamming RMT when I visit, almost no one runs DD-style content, and I wonder why Eorzea is so quiet and lonely. Or maybe it's apathy settling in, who knows.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Just…lol, to be honest. You really haven’t figured out that ‘trying to appeal to everyone’ is literally the root of the problem? Or one or them at least.

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FF14 direction is super clear to me, and it's not appealing to everyone. Its segment is dedicated. Super casual, without the pressure of falling behind, and fairly easy to pick up roles/ classes, and a high ceiling of hyper optimization for most of them, the higher you go.

The way FF14 introduces complexity in the game is with the help of encounters. In 1.0, it was the other way around, but since they reworked it over the years is safe to say they moved away from that idea for the time being.

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Or maybe the whole point about an invisible silent majority was to point out how silly it is to rely on such a thing? I don’t think I represent anyone else but me, and frankly whether others do/don’t agree is irrelevant to me; I’d be giving my opinion anyway.

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And yet you somehow are trying to represent the silent majority.. oh come on now.. make it make sense please..

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And I mean that’s good that ultimates are fun but like why can’t they put that same effort and creativity into other pieces of content? Like Cosmic Exploration or the barely utilised Occult Crescent

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I dunno what creativity you are exactly expecting from them because every single time they try to do something.. a very vocal minority loses their shit. The game is the way it is BECAUSE of people like you... Everything that you are arguing is because some Andy crapped out in the forums with "game is dying", "game is no fun" game was better in vanilla", or " jumping in the game breaks my immersion"(yes it was an actual forum post, look it up) and somehow you think you are saving everyone when in fact you ain't saving anyone.

Let them cook, give them creative freedom, and vote with your wallet. That's all I'm gonna say.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I wonder if the lack of interest in content nowadays is in any way related to the general player disconnect with the story and the direction they've taken it in.

I feel like Dawntrail rendered a lot of the lore, world-building and atmosphere of the past arc completely meaningless, and there are no concrete rules or boundaries governing the story anymore. The consequent lack of identity makes the game feel soulless, and without that sense of investment the often tedious reality of MMO grinding becomes more difficult to justify. Yoshi P said something about the demands of the market changing and making the game require less time to play, but I think you find the time for something you actually care about.

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My lack of interest stems from the simple fact that... I ultimately know what I am getting before they even spoiler or announce it.. A deep dungeon is always going to be this... Exploratory content is always going to be that... Albeit with different aesthetics... So I oft' question 'why' bother? ... If it's not fundamentally going to offer me a different experience, then it doesn't really matter whether I do Bozja, or whether I do Occult Crescent (Especially when the latter has me feeling like it's on-the-rails.

It's inevitable.. But it's also egregious when you think about the systems, and what they could change or add to make it more interesting, or to at the very least give the content more longevity.

I think if people have a passion for something -- and if they care, then as you say they will find a way to make time for it... But I honestly feel that the comment comes more from the fact that there's some struggle to accept that the content just wasn't as big as they'd thought it'd be.. So rather than accept that, to try and rationalize it around the idea that everyone is just suddenly too busy, or that 'it's a new arc, so we expected it'.

Yoshi P even said before DT got released that the game will shift into a different direction a lot of players wont like. Even for the Rising event, where Yoshi P shows up and talks to the WoL had some message like the game shifting or something. I dont remember the exact wording, but can probably get looked up on youtube or so.
For me the direction of the game has become pretty clear in the past few expansions. 2min meta, hyper balance, no risks, counter button bloat.

And literally isnt the DDR encounters what players asked for?
"The game is too easy, all mechs are so slow, target rings are too big, we want to fight for uptime etc"
So what now? They changed it. Small target rings, fight for uptime, fast mechanics, more stress. Of course only really in high end content and not "normal" content because they design from the top to bottom and not bottom to top. They make the hardest version of a fight and then water it down into an easier version. Jobs get balanced around savage and ultimate and not from the bottom up, because why would they? It would just be a mess then. They need to function flawlessly in the hardest content and if they dont it quickly gets addressed.

The difficulty of the game does not come from jobs, the difficulty is defined by the encounter. If you want interesting job gameplay for a leveling roulette then i doubt this is where the game is heading anytime soon.

The devs do know that players are very attached to their jobs which again is why no big changes can or will happen and jobs will be left mostly the way they are now, because even slight changes get huge backlash. The smn rework is one of the biggest risks they ever took and it taught them to not take any risks anymore.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

The devs do know that players are very attached to their jobs which again is why no big changes can or will happen and jobs will be left mostly the way they are now, because even slight changes get huge backlash. The smn rework is one of the biggest risks they ever took and it taught them to not take any risks anymore.

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We saw what they learned when they took risks changing BLM in 7.2 or destroying AST's RNG in 7.0. It was hated.

Plus it's not like they care about the backlash either way. Nothing gets reversed once it changes.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

We saw what they learned when they took risks changing BLM in 7.2 or destroying AST's RNG in 7.0. It was hated.

Plus it's not like they care about the backlash either way. Nothing gets reversed once it changes.

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I think taking away that awful RNG from AST was the best decision ever. You have no idea how awful it was in anything but crystal tower. As for BLM they lowered the complexity because the disparity between mage class ceiling was super huge. You had BLM triple transpose vs red mage, vs SMN.. like what? Not to mention, they went towards a much more fast paced encounter. You literally can no longer sit there and hardcast your flare now.

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Originally Posted by Khiel

It feels like a team that has been working on the same title for many years and is struggling to take risks. There’s a noticeable lack of new ideas, creativity, and innovation. Please listen to your players, listen to the feedback, and don’t be afraid to bring in new voices and bold ideas.

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Taking risks is more likely to kill a game than refresh it.

Existing players theoretically enjoy a long running game because it's been designed around XYZ. Developers listen to a handful of discontended players and change the style to ABC. Suddenly 70% of existing players disappear because they don't enjoy ABC.

Someone hears a friend talking about how the game they've played offers XYZ and so they make a decision to try out the game based on it being XYZ. But they're not experiencing XYZ. They're getting ABC and that's not what they wanted. They quit within 2 months of starting the game.

There's another player that loves ABC in a different game but they're already invested in that game and have no interest in trying out the game that has changed from XYZ to ABC.

Soon the game only has enough active players left to operate maintenance servers and it dies out, attracting no new players who want ABC because they can choose to play the other game that has been doing ABC for years and still has a large player base.

There has been new content and other changes added to FFXIV over the years even if you don't think so. Sounds like a lot of that new stuff hasn't been to your liking.

The game isn't going to drastically change for the sake of the handful of players that are getting bored with the content when there are hundreds of thousands of other players that are still enjoying it. The type of changes you're looking for generally don't happen except when a game gets released and the developers are trying to tune it to match what the attracted audience wants.

I would say the issue is that you've been playing for too many years and you've stayed too long past the time you should have moved onto other games to get a different experience. Broaden your horizons.

We know what happened when Coca-Cola replaced Coke with New Coke in 1985. We know what happened when Blizzard messed too much with WoW design. Both companies had to bring back their original product to entice formerly loyal customers back to those brands.

It would be no different for FFXIV now that we're a decade past 2.0. Most of those here are enjoying the game for what it offers. Those wanting an innovative new game style have gone seeking it from new games.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I think taking away that awful RNG from AST was the best decision ever. You have no idea how awful it was in anything but crystal tower. As for BLM they lowered the complexity because the disparity between mage class ceiling was super huge. You had BLM triple transpose vs red mage, vs SMN.. like what? Not to mention, they went towards a much more fast paced encounter. You literally can no longer sit there and hardcast your flare now.

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God forbid the fortune-teller-flavored job has RNG in it. I enjoyed it and now it's gone because those that hated the RNG couldn't stick to the other 3 Healer jobs.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

FF14 direction is super clear to me, and it's not appealing to everyone. Its segment is dedicated. Super casual, without the pressure of falling behind, and fairly easy to pick up roles/ classes, and a high ceiling of hyper optimization for most of them, the higher you go.

The way FF14 introduces complexity in the game is with the help of encounters. In 1.0, it was the other way around, but since they reworked it over the years is safe to say they moved away from that idea for the time being.

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‘Its segment is dedicated’….uhhh, to what? If it’s dedicated to super casuals why is everything balanced around and contingent upon savage? If it’s dedicated to super raiders why are a vast majority of jobs designed around people who literally have never played them before at max level?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

And yet you somehow are trying to represent the silent majority.. oh come on now.. make it make sense please..

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“I don’t represent anyone other than me”
“You’re trying to represent the silent majority!!!!!” Make that make sense lol

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I dunno what creativity you are exactly expecting from them because every single time they try to do something.. a very vocal minority loses their shit. The game is the way it is BECAUSE of people like you... Everything that you are arguing is because some Andy crapped out in the forums with "game is dying", "game is no fun" game was better in vanilla", or " jumping in the game breaks my immersion"(yes it was an actual forum post, look it up) and somehow you think you are saving everyone when in fact you ain't saving anyone.

Let them cook, give them creative freedom, and vote with your wallet. That's all I'm gonna say.

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‘Give them creative freedom’…that’s what you call current game design? The result of creative freedom lol? Not a sterile canvas of 24 different flavours of dps made wholly so for the purposes of savage balancing? You say let them cook but they haven’t even turned the damn oven on.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

God forbid the fortune-teller-flavored job has RNG in it. I enjoyed it and now it's gone because those that hated the RNG couldn't stick to the other 3 Healer jobs.

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It was removed because it was unreliable and ineffective. I get it, it was probably fun for you to see which card you pulled, but classes should be effective in all types of content, not just super casual, where you feel happy just rolling your cards.

AST was and still is a buffer. Will I pull arrow 3 times in a row, or will I get the proper cards to get the maximum buff? AST was the first healer I ever mained, and those cards and RNG still give me shivers thinking about them.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

We saw what they learned when they took risks changing BLM in 7.2 or destroying AST's RNG in 7.0. It was hated.

Plus it's not like they care about the backlash either way. Nothing gets reversed once it changes.

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But blm is so much better now? Theres a blm in every duty. I made it my main job after picto got nerfed too much. Before not many played blm and the changes really were mostly hated by blm veterans. The job is now opened to a bigger audience. I've never considered the timers part of blm identity anyway. No blm in any other ff game had to manage timers and blm still plays the same as before.
Blm always was the mage with hard hitting spells and it still is but now the devs can be more creative with fight design because they dont have to design around blm timers anymore.
So i dont think removing blm timers was a risky move at all.
Astro RNG was more annoying than helpful, too. So not mad about that either. Fishing for the balance didnt really provide depth.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Except, the game is trying pretty hard to try to appeal to everyone.

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I don't know... based on current job and encounter design or hell, even just content difficulty, I get the impression Square-Enix is only trying to appeal to a limited subset of players these days.
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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I wonder if the lack of interest in content nowadays is in any way related to the general player disconnect with the story and the direction they've taken it in.

I feel like Dawntrail rendered a lot of the lore, world-building and atmosphere of the past arc completely meaningless, and there are no concrete rules or boundaries governing the story anymore. The consequent lack of identity makes the game feel soulless, and without that sense of investment the often tedious reality of MMO grinding becomes more difficult to justify.

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Probably depends on what people wanted out of the story. Personally for me FF14's plot started to lose the narrative in Stormblood, and fell off completely in Shadowbringers. There's a lot of people who think SHB was "peak" storytelling, but for me it was a huge valley.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

God forbid the fortune-teller-flavored job has RNG in it. I enjoyed it and now it's gone because those that hated the RNG couldn't stick to the other 3 Healer jobs.

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This is one of the issues I have with dev’s chosen method(s) to make X jobs more ‘appealing’. They could keep job A & B fairly unique, that will attract their own ‘fanbase’. Now you have job A fans & job B fans, adding to an overall more numbers of players. Then someday, somehow they got an idea that one of them isn’t appealing enough, so their approach to ‘alleviate’ this is to… turn job B into pseudo job A but different colors? Where will the old job B’s fans going to next, if they even have any other option that tickles them the same way their beloved old job B did?

Congrats for them to increase the playrate on job B finally, I guess? If their goal was to even out the playrate numbers between job A & B (or whichever other job mains they siphoned those numbers off from), even if it means they have to alienate the old job B fanbase? Lol…

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I don't know... based on current job and encounter design or hell, even just content difficulty, I get the impression Square-Enix is only trying to appeal to a limited subset of players these days.
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So, the thing you need to consider here is that -- Trying to appeal to all does not mean that they will be successful in those endeavors… In fact it more often than not will result in the opposite than intended from happening.. It just happens to be that in this instance they had a good hit with those raiding, and not for those that aren't interested.

The intent of trying to appeal to everyone is made pretty clear as well in their content release cycle.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I dunno what creativity you are exactly expecting from them because every single time they try to do something.. a very vocal minority loses their shit. The game is the way it is BECAUSE of people like you... Everything that you are arguing is because some Andy crapped out in the forums with "game is dying", "game is no fun" game was better in vanilla", or " jumping in the game breaks my immersion"(yes it was an actual forum post, look it up) and somehow you think you are saving everyone when in fact you ain't saving anyone.

Let them cook, give them creative freedom, and vote with your wallet. That's all I'm gonna say.

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Isn't it the irony? They almost never try to do something? People precisely "lose their shit" because nothing is improving, nothing is being creative, and nothing changes. If you were so eager to see them cook and create new things as you seem to imply, you wouldn't be defending the current statu quo in such a staunch manner.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Isn't it the irony? They almost never try to do something? People precisely "lose their shit" because nothing is improving, nothing is being creative, and nothing changes. If you were so eager to see them cook and create new things as you seem to imply, you wouldn't be defending the current statu quo in such a staunch manner.

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I said this before, and I will say again. The game reached this state because ppl were crying in the forums about X and Y. This is what YOU and other doom poster Andies enabled to happen. The game state is an effect of people like you.

Also, they innovated nothing? Remind me, why are you playing this game for?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I said this before, and I will say again. The game reached this state because ppl were crying in the forums about X and Y. This is what YOU and other doom poster Andies enabled to happen. The game state is an effect of people like you.

Also, they innovated nothing? Remind me, why are you playing this game for?

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The Devs don't even read these forums anymore, but yeah let's blame the players expressing the feedback where the game said feedback need be addressed. Plus, it's not like the team doesn't have the agency to comb through the feedback and decide which is best or not. No, they're complete servants to our whims.

What we've seen a lot from this Dev team is, though they do sometimes hear the feedback, they do not know nor understand how to properly implement it. So most innovations they bring to the table feels disjointed or completely different from what people actually wanted (see ol' Island Sanctuary). Also most of their current innovations are so small that the best 'new thing' I've seen in a while is the Pâtisserie mini-game, the rest being simple additions or versions to existing systems.

Also I am laughing at being called an Andy. Toy Story isn't even my fave Pixar franchise (I prefer Monsters Inc.). Is this the new 2026 insult?

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

The Devs don't even read these forums anymore

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How can you be certain of it? Did they publicly state that they do not read forums anymore? Provide the exact place and where they said that. Also, the most important shifts in the game took place when they were supposedly reading the forums, and mentioning it in their LL, so???

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most innovations they bring to the table feels disjointed or completely different from what people actually wanted

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Who are those most people?

It is fine for you not to like the innovation, changes, and stuff they bring/put in the game, but stop generalising.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

It was removed because it was unreliable and ineffective. I get it, it was probably fun for you to see which card you pulled, but classes should be effective in all types of content, not just super casual, where you feel happy just rolling your cards.

AST was and still is a buffer. Will I pull arrow 3 times in a row, or will I get the proper cards to get the maximum buff? AST was the first healer I ever mained, and those cards and RNG still give me shivers thinking about them.

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AST was perfectly viable even with the RNG. People complain about job identity but when a job is slightly less "efficient" you're screaming a job is bad and how balance is bad and how it needs to be changed. I loved AST in SHB and EW, I hate AST in DT. It's not fun nor does it even feel like AST.

It's okay for a job to be unique and be slightly less reliable. Not everything has to be rigid for perfect effectiveness. Every job is effective in every type of content in the game so long as people press the buttons correctly. Just have fun, what is this all nonsense about "efficiency and reliability." you're playing a game, not a job where everything has to be effective and reliable. Just have fun with it? Gamers today are so obsessed with fine tuning everything it's so strange to me.

And if you say "I have fun with efficiency." good for you, but it shouldn't come at the cost of job identity.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I said this before, and I will say again. The game reached this state because ppl were crying in the forums about X and Y. This is what YOU and other doom poster Andies enabled to happen. The game state is an effect of people like you.

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Beyond the "NO U", I'd seriously like an explanation on how complaining about a lack of innovation is preventing the game to improve. This is the most unhinged thing I've had the displeasure to read today.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Also, they innovated nothing? Remind me, why are you playing this game for?

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... And why are you if that's the case?

What kind of nonsense question is this? There is still things remaining in the game I do enjoy? Hello? Else why indeed would I still be playing??