Job feedback [pre-8.0 megathread]

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Originally Posted by Shistar

I like PLD right now and would like to continue playing it this way

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With the Dawntrail changes they did to other tanks I have been enjoying PLD and DRK the most, i absolutely love current PLD

And its funny because GNB was my favorite tank in EW and now its my least liked one

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

As far as my memory recalled, he sold SGE as "The healer that heals by attacking" & "-able to augment its own capabilities" rather than -the- DPS healer but I could be misremembering at this point or simply paraphrasing. But assuming that was what he said, they have failed to checkmark their own bullet points regardless.

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No, SE did actually check both those bullet points: Kardia is literally "heals by attacking." Eukrasia is literally "augment its own capabilities."

I remember reading those same remarks, and they were in the context of (paraphrasing), "we really, really don't want to make healers feel like they have to do damage and distract them from doing their job," so it's a mystery to me why anyone expected more than what we got — of course the new healer wasn't going to unduly stress the hEaLeRs sHoUlD OnLy hEaL crowd.

I'm actually more disappointed in the "augment" aspect. Recitation, Deployment Tactics, and Emergency Tactics are a more interesting system than Eukrasia.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

[...]I remember reading those same remarks, and they were in the context of (paraphrasing), "we really, really don't want to make healers feel like they have to do damage and distract them from doing their job," so it's a mystery to me why anyone expected more than what we got — of course the new healer wasn't going to unduly stress the hEaLeRs sHoUlD OnLy hEaL crowd[...]

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Now that you mention it, I hate to admit that you're right. My day is ruined ;_;

The 'augment' part was what mostly interests me back then. But alas...

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

No, SE did actually check both those bullet points: Kardia is literally "heals by attacking." Eukrasia is literally "augment its own capabilities."

I remember reading those same remarks, and they were in the context of (paraphrasing), "we really, really don't want to make healers feel like they have to do damage and distract them from doing their job," so it's a mystery to me why anyone expected more than what we got — of course the new healer wasn't going to unduly stress the hEaLeRs sHoUlD OnLy hEaL crowd.

I'm actually more disappointed in the "augment" aspect. Recitation, Deployment Tactics, and Emergency Tactics are a more interesting system than Eukrasia.

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Ah yes the corporate/PR's "technically correct" move. My fault for expecting anything more than the bottom of the barrel, I still believed in FF14 back then.

I miss SHB Summoner, it was so fun and complete imo, I still feel DoTs on jobs are fun because using it on multiple targets is always satisfying.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Ah yes the corporate/PR's "technically correct" move. My fault for expecting anything more than the bottom of the barrel, I still believed in FF14 back then.

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reminds me of what they said about cosmic explorstion 'you are able to do this content in a group'
which isnt wrong since you can do it while you're in a group. but i expected group content.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

As far as my memory recalled, he sold SGE as "The healer that heals by attacking" & "-able to augment its own capabilities" rather than -the- DPS healer but I could be misremembering at this point or simply paraphrasing. But assuming that was what he said, they have failed to checkmark their own bullet points regardless.

By its core design - like ASkellington mentioned; we're going to do both. They need to acknowledge this and actually give more than just cookie crumbs to their damage options.

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I am bias, so feel free to fact check my statements and/or take my perspective with a grain of salt, but during several interviews with Yoshi P about Sage before Endwalker, he stated specifically that Sage was designed based on feedback received in Shadowbringers that some players wanted more DPS on healers. I’ll give you an example: Zelpa’s Q&A with Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The Solutions

DPS
Sage needs to level up its DPS arsenal. It should feel more like a mini-DPS that also heals. That was the entire point of releasing Sage to begin with, so it baffles me why it does almost nothing to differentiate itself from the other healer's painfully dull DPS gameplay. Make Sage feel like a caster DPS lite. Take inspiration from Red Mage and/or Pictomancer if you have to. Diet Red Mage or Diet Pictomancer with added healing, if you will. Rework how Addersting is generated and/or what it's spent on. Give Sage more regular spells to cycle through as something that isn't just a generic combo.

Healing
Sage's main methods of healing should be redirected to center around Kardia and Eukrasia. These should be my go-to, most optimal methods of healing anytime the party takes a raidwide hit. Other actions should be supplementary and exist to support Kardia and Eukrasia when they aren't enough, such as tighter healing checks in Savage or when your party messes up. Consider reworking what Addersgall is spent on. Instead of Aetherflow reskins, why not spend it on actions like Soteria and an actual Pankardia that triggers off your DPS? Make it support Kardia healing rather than replace it.

The TLDR
Sage was sold as a DPS-focused healer, but its DPS is no different than the other healers, is severely boring and fails to live up to the exciting expectations of an attack-based gundam healer. And the token healing methods associated with Sage are greatly outclassed by boring reskins of Scholar healing. These need to be changed going into 8.0 so that Sage can live up to the job fantasy that it was assigned, but failed to live up to.

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Treat Sage as a Physical Ranged instead of Magical.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

No, SE did actually check both those bullet points: Kardia is literally "heals by attacking." Eukrasia is literally "augment its own capabilities."

I remember reading those same remarks, and they were in the context of (paraphrasing), "we really, really don't want to make healers feel like they have to do damage and distract them from doing their job," so it's a mystery to me why anyone expected more than what we got — of course the new healer wasn't going to unduly stress the hEaLeRs sHoUlD OnLy hEaL crowd.

I'm actually more disappointed in the "augment" aspect. Recitation, Deployment Tactics, and Emergency Tactics are a more interesting system than Eukrasia.

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To me, that’s textbook malicious compliance. “We said you healed by attacking. We didn’t say that would have any impact on your play style. What are you complaining about?” Obviously they wouldn’t talk like that, but that’s how it feels. The point is I don’t think it’s possible to craft a more passive, unimpactful system for a “heal by attacking” play style. Doing the literal barest minimum possible and stapling Aetherflow onto Sage is not a vibe. And the thing is, if they don’t want a DPS healer, no one forced them to market Sage as one. They could’ve done something else as disconnected from DPS thematically as possible, yet they made Sage and tried to pass it off as a response to people asking for DPS on healers. So at this point, I want commitment to the promise. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I am bias, so feel free to fact check my statements and/or take my perspective with a grain of salt, but during several interviews with Yoshi P about Sage before Endwalker, he stated specifically that Sage was designed based on feedback received in Shadowbringers that some players wanted more DPS on healers. I’ll give you an example: Zelpa’s Q&A with Yoshi P.

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But what does 'more DPS' actually mean? It isn't going to do more damage than other healers, so it just means more DPS options than other healers, which it did get. No other healer has a Phlegma equivalent, or a Toxicon equivalent, or even a Pneuma equivalent. With DT it then got Psyche, the closest thing to this is Assize and Eukrasian Dyskrasia, the only healer with an on demand AoE DoT.

I've said it once and I will say it again, people are to focused on looking at what makes jobs the same, they forget to look at what makes jobs different. Yes, Sage and Scholar have very similar healing kits, but they are not the same when it comes to the DPS side. If these differences are where you would like a job to go, then you can use these examples as something to level off of when making suggestions. For example, acknowledging Sage has more DPS options, saying, yes SE, I want Sage to move more in this direction, but I also want to leverage the other unique thing about Sage, Eukrasia. How about a Eukrasian Phlegma that does an AoE heal (maybe at the cost of some potency), or make it so that the shields reflect some damage back (likely a fixed potency like Vengeance/Damnation), to try and encourage the use of them, or to make them closer to DPS neutral. Then, in situations where there is multiple hits going out, it might be worth it to use the shield as you get more DPS from the reflected damage out of it.

This can apply to every job, though you might need to go back a bit to previous iterations to get some design ideas, like Dark Arts.

As for the topic itself, first, I would take away the 2 minute meta, ie, remove all temporary raid buffs. Off the back of that, we can then design jobs with varying burst windows and damage profiles to make them feel more unique. One idea that I have had for a while is Monk. Monk would have no damage% increase burst windows on fixed timers, ie. Brotherhood and Riddle of Fire get their damage increases removed and instead, their 'burst' is designed to be short, but strong. This is done via Perfect Balance. Those 4 GCDs (3 under PB and then Masterful Blitz) would be stronger, but since there is no window to use them and PB has a stacking cooldown, you are much more flexible in when you use it (More details here).

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

But what does \\'more DPS\\' actually mean? It isn\\'t going to do more damage than other healers, so it just means more DPS options than other healers, which it did get. No other healer has a Phlegma equivalent, or a Toxicon equivalent, or even a Pneuma equivalent. With DT it then got Psyche, the closest thing to this is Assize and Eukrasian Dyskrasia, the only healer with an on demand AoE DoT.

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No Phlegma equivalent? White Mage has Assize and Misery. Scholar has Energy Drain and Ruin II which is significantly more versatile than Toxikon as well. Astrologian had an entire damage buffing system which has since been diminished in scale, but is still at least partially present. Also Lord of Crowns. And even if that wasn’t the case, the issue that we have been asking for is gameplay that isn’t almost entirely “spam glare/broil/malefic.”

“Spam Dosis, except 1 less time per 40 seconds” was not the answer. It’s not about doing more damage, it’s about having a job that actually has gameplay and doesn’t feel like a level 1 job for the majority of most encounters.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I am bias, so feel free to fact check my statements and/or take my perspective with a grain of salt, but during several interviews with Yoshi P about Sage before Endwalker, he stated specifically that Sage was designed based on feedback received in Shadowbringers that some players wanted more DPS on healers. I’ll give you an example: Zelpa’s Q&A with Yoshi P.

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I too am biased, at least when I wrote that reply, so I don't think I'm in right place to fact check that statement. Nevertheless, I think the one point we both agreed is having more in-depth options to fill our time when we're not healing are something to be sought for - sorely that is.

I personally don't quite care who gets what at this point. I just want four of them to feel different. My proposal in the past has been pretty low of a bar to clear: rollback to ShB (because that's when I started and 3 healers still had some distinct difference that make me notice), then start from there. Ideally it would be "rollback to StB, keep ShB QoLs, then start from there" sprinkled with plethora other suggested changes that we often saw in healer subforum. But apparently that's been a tough ask for this multi-billion dollar company...

One day maybe I'll get slapped with the "Please understand the cost..."-reasoning. I can feel it...

Also not to mention Eukrasian dyskrasia has been a fairly big loss ever since they buffed Euk Dosis where it equals 2 targets that get hit with dyskrasia so when tagging mobs, it's better to use e. dosis over e dyskrasia and most certainly e. dosis is certainly going to get buffed again in either 7.4 or 7.5 if the last patch is the one that gets the ultimate.

These people know nothing.
Mess with other classes, leave my PLD my beloved alone!
I love my invincible slow DPS

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

No Phlegma equivalent? White Mage has Assize and Misery. Scholar has Energy Drain and Ruin II which is significantly more versatile than Toxikon as well. Astrologian had an entire damage buffing system which has since been diminished in scale, but is still at least partially present. Also Lord of Crowns. And even if that wasn’t the case, the issue that we have been asking for is gameplay that isn’t almost entirely “spam glare/broil/malefic.”

“Spam Dosis, except 1 less time per 40 seconds” was not the answer. It’s not about doing more damage, it’s about having a job that actually has gameplay and doesn’t feel like a level 1 job for the majority of most encounters.

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Phlegma being a GCD that is on a 40 second cooldown that can stack up to 2 and does AoE damage cantered around the target that you have to be close to the enemy to use is equivalent to Assize that is an oGCD on a 40 second timer, that cannot stack and as well as dealing AoE damage around the user, also heals and restores WHM's MP, or Afflatus Misery that that is only able to be used every minute, as long as you spend the Lilies on potentially useless heals that can effectively be said have a cooldown of 20 seconds that stacks up to 3.

Oh, you want to go after Toxicon? The one where you have to use a GCDto apply a shield to get a stack for the resource to use it, as opposed to Energy Drain that you use to dump any remaining Aetherflow before Aetherflow comes off of cooldown or Ruin 2 that is a DPS loss for that GCD (Toxicon, fight dependant, might not be) and as you said, is far more flexible.

AST cards aren't even in the same ball park and is definitely not what you meant when you said DPS healer and Lord of Crowns being used every 2 minutes based on AST's Draw? What are you even comparing this to? The closest Sage would have is Psyche and that is a 60 second cast that isn't locked behind something else.

You have quite literally proven the point I made in that post in that you aren't looking for differences. You have concentrated on what you think makes them the same and just rolled with it, and, in my opinion, failed at that. Bear in mind, I haven't said there shouldn't be more work, I just disagree with the premise that they are the same and does provide options for the Sage.

Some of the most fun I have playing Red Mage comes from clutch situations, like when I need to chain rez or when there's a big hit coming and I've got both Addle and Magic Barrier up to help (I love that the latter buffs healing too!).

With things like Phantom Jobs, I love the synergy buff and debuff spells have with Dualcast.

Back when Manashift was a thing, I liked balancing how much mp I expected to need against how often I thought I could realistically share it with the Healers.

I say all of that to say that I'd love more party support tools. Not even necessarily ones that need to get a lot of use, just more options to use. Some could be ogcd, but it'd be neat if others needed Dualcast as well. I like the feeling Red Mage can have where you're juggling priorities and not all of them are necessarily "make number go big". It's the top priority sure, but you can have more going on depending on the situation and that's pretty fun. Like the general expectation would still be "be greedy, do big dps" but skill expression could become how well you can do that while also supporting your team in niche scenarios you have a solution for.

I see FF11's Red Mage and the buffs/debuffs they get and while the battle systems are pretty different between games, it definitely looks fun and I think we could have just a tiny bit more of that over here.

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Originally Posted by smitten_miquitten

I see FF11's Red Mage and the buffs/debuffs they get and while the battle systems are pretty different between games, it definitely looks fun and I think we could have just a tiny bit more of that over here.

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Big parts of XI RDM were more akin to the older FFs, being a jack of all trades with white magic, black magic, buffs, debuffs, and enspells to enchant their weapons. XIV's role system being as rigid as it is, fights functioning as they do, and elements not existing as a gameplay mechanic means that it simply isn't compatible beyond the general themes.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

You have quite literally proven the point I made in that post in that you aren't looking for differences. You have concentrated on what you think makes them the same and just rolled with it, and, in my opinion, failed at that. Bear in mind, I haven't said there shouldn't be more work, I just disagree with the premise that they are the same and does provide options for the Sage.

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In your previous post, you implied that Sage's goal of being more DPS oriented is inherently successful because no other healer had an equivalent to Phlegma, Toxikon, or Pneuma. Saying that tools like Assize, Energy Drain, or Lord of Crowns are "equivalent" is slightly misleading based on what I'm equating them to, which I will expand on. I am not focused on equating their functionality. Rather, I am equating each healer's access to a variety of offensive tools in general--tools with a similar volume of usage. The problem that has been criticized for now 6 years is that so much of healer gameplay is completely dominated by just spamming Glare and waiting large swaths of time before you can do anything else. One 40 second GCD nuke does not magically resolve that issue, and both Toxikon and Pneuma fail far worse at alleviating the issue. Pneuma is not a DPS tool. It is a burst healing tool. Toxikon has horrible optimization, and you often get only 3 uses of it across an entire fight because GCD barriers are Sage's last desperate act of survival, not their primary method of healing.

What I need is active gameplay that keeps me cycling through a modest, yet interesting selection of spells that are always applicable no matter how simple or easy the content gets. What I don't need is a commercial break between every transient heartbeat of gameplay that reminds my brain that I'm actually supposed to be having fun, and not roleplaying as a laser hair removal technician getting Barbara's legs ready for swimsuit season.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Phlegma being a GCD that is on a 40 second cooldown that can stack up to 2 and does AoE damage cantered around the target that you have to be close to the enemy to use is equivalent to Assize that is an oGCD on a 40 second timer, that cannot stack and as well as dealing AoE damage around the user, also heals and restores WHM's MP, or Afflatus Misery that that is only able to be used every minute, as long as you spend the Lilies on potentially useless heals that can effectively be said have a cooldown of 20 seconds that stacks up to 3.

Oh, you want to go after Toxicon? The one where you have to use a GCDto apply a shield to get a stack for the resource to use it, as opposed to Energy Drain that you use to dump any remaining Aetherflow before Aetherflow comes off of cooldown or Ruin 2 that is a DPS loss for that GCD (Toxicon, fight dependant, might not be) and as you said, is far more flexible.

AST cards aren't even in the same ball park and is definitely not what you meant when you said DPS healer and Lord of Crowns being used every 2 minutes based on AST's Draw? What are you even comparing this to? The closest Sage would have is Psyche and that is a 60 second cast that isn't locked behind something else.

You have quite literally proven the point I made in that post in that you aren't looking for differences. You have concentrated on what you think makes them the same and just rolled with it, and, in my opinion, failed at that. Bear in mind, I haven't said there shouldn't be more work, I just disagree with the premise that they are the same and does provide options for the Sage.

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No you have you just proven the opposite point in that you looking for pointless tiny differences and amounting them to important differences as if they actually necessitate class difference

E dyskrasia is a loss in 99% of situations, it’s literally a dead button in the closest sense of the word.

Toxicon has its closest analogue in ruin 2

Phlegma has parallels in misery, star, ED and assize

Psyche has parallels in assize and lord

When it comes down to it all healers still spam 1 button, refresh their DOT and basically use their very limited oGCD damage options on CD then distinguish themselves by their healing kit…….which SGE also copied from SCH

If you are selling something as a “DPS healer” I’m expected PCT or RDM complexity, not “I have one more non interactive oGCD damage option than the class I ripped off” especially since SGE’s oGCD’s have zero interactivity and little optimisation pathway. SCH with energy drain alone or WHM with Lilys have infinitely more optimisation than “2 phlegma’s in the burst window psyche on CD”

Alright, I will politely give my feedback.

Tanks:
Well, they're boring. I think WAR's braindead design is fun, but tbh they should just make everything hit harder to compensate for it and put the other tanks on an even playing field in terms of sustain. But then the people who unironically find DT dungeons hard already would riot.

So yeah.

WAR: Cut down on the heals or make them a tradeoff for DPS to bring back some of the energy that aggro combo vs dps combo had. Actually, bring aggro management back, lol.

DRK: It's honestly okay, Dark Arts sucked anyway. But it is just a glorified WAR clone. I think the defensive kit needs some work, tbh, to be made interesting. Same for the main combo. Make Darkside matter again?

PLD: I mean, it is less clunky now. That's nice. I still think we should remove Clemency for the game. Or better, make it an oGCD that shares its CD with a DPS skill. That'd be great. Combos remain boring but at least they're pretty now?

GNB: I mean, I'm sure GNB mains are more educated on this than me, but I had the impression it got dumbed down as well? Regardless, I think the defensive kit is okay at least.

Also, please put all invulns on the same unlock level, this is silly.

Healers:
Just need a complete rework. Or a safety reboot from the state pre-ShB. Seriously. In detail:

WHM: Was always rather simplistic. Won't get better any time soon unless we remove Cure I from the game (have Cure I upgrade into it) and give all healers a sensible DPS kit that also lets them heal from doing their rotation correctly.

SCH: Bane, Shadowflare, Miasma. That's a full sentence. Seriously, it's silly how hard this class was neutered. If button bloat is a concern, make Deployment Tactics work like PvP where it spreads dots OR shields.

AST: I think current AST is a step up from EW AST, but that ain't hard. It's honestly okay. But it also needs more dps going on. Like, a rotation, at all, that rewards you with free heals for not sucking at the game.

SGE: Man, Kardia was the right track but I s2g it'd be that much better if there was actually a DPS rotation to go with it. Also the fact that you have to mindlessly overheal to generate MP in a lot of content is silly. Maybe consider making MP generation also be awarded from doing your rotation correctly.

aaand I hit character limit

Physical ranged: Partial rework.
First off, the DMG values are entirely off. It should be MCH > BRD > DNC. It's dumb that MCH, a job that brings no utility whatsoever, is the worst DPS.

BRD: Dot spread? I am begging you? Multi-dotting is a DPS loss half the time. It shouldn't be. Also, make all songs do something reasonable, and not just WM and MB. Also also, if BRD is gonna have a cleanse, maybe have the cleanse be useful in different ways as well. Like idk, 1% dmg buff.

DNC: It's an okay job, low skill floor + medium ceiling. But it shouldn't do more DPS than MCH.

MCH: If you're gonna have 3 oGCDs that do the same thing qith different animations, maybe actually don't. If MCH is to stay a pure DPS, it needs a rework and also needs to actually do damage.

Melees:
Oh boy. Uhm. Where do I even start?

RPR: Please make this an actual job. Why is it so damn free? Like I get it, it has some utility, but it isn't...it just isn't great, man. Some depth to the rotation would be fire.

SAM: I'd say bring back Kaiten, but I honestly don't actually care that much. But like, bringing back Kaiten would help, y'know?

NIN: I miss Huton management. So much. But that aside, NIN is NIN. The average player already sucks at it anyway. It's fine. I think Dokumori should work on EX trial drops. I know this is Very silly because it'd make NIN mandatory, but that's why it's modtly a joke.

MNK: I mean, it could be so much worse, I guess. The class is actually intelligible for once. But I don't think MNK mains wanted that.

VPR: Those tooltips are a disgusting janky mess, and the job is currently overtuned for AoE. Nobody is surprised.

DRG: Bring back Nastrond, I am begging you. All charges of it, that is.

And like, adjust the DPS curve please. Double VPR being actually viable in M6S is stupid.

And finally, casters. Honestly, it's a fucking mess. Here we go:

BLM: De-dumb it halfway. Give us timers back, but make them not run out when out of combat. It'll be great.

RDM: Should be the lowest DPS caster. I don't know why it isn't with Verraise in its kit. It's kind of dumb.

SMN: Honestly, the utility is fine. It can be second worst after RDM. But it needs a rotation. We have the Ramuh Egi model. We have a lot of things. Make it an actual choice. Like Ramuh vs. Leviathan, Garuda vs. Ifrit, Titan vs. the Moogle. And of course, Bahamut vs. Phoenix. That would easily make it a better job.

PCT: Hammer needs to be a gain on one. That's it, that's the take. Not a high gain btw. Just. A gain. Also, it needs to do less DPS than BLM and more than SMN.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

P.S. Give BLU LB3 based on the role copied so we can actually do WoL EX. And maybe Ultimates if they ever wanna rebalance for that.

I think every job in the healer role needs to be rebuilt from the ground up at this point. Can the jobs in the role function as they are right now? Yes. Are they well-designed? Absolutely not.

WHM: Accessibility doesn't have to mean it's so simple that a monkey could pick it up and play it well in an hour. If they want this job to be a strong healer, then it should be the only healer that can top up the party in one go with every other healer needing to put in a bit more work.

Following on their vision of an accessible and strong healer, it could have a basic framework much like their opposite magic job (BLM), like perhaps earth and water stances with wind as a DoT or personal damage debuff like RPR has, can also dip into holy spells for their nuke, like BLM dips into void magic for theirs.

SCH: This job lost so much over the years that it's a pale shadow now. Give back Selene and give her a use. Give back the DoTs and lost utility and make SCH the resource juggling healer again. Give the fey gauge another use aside from being just a targetted regen gauge.

SCH should be the busy healer, you play this job because you like managing many things at once and if you do it well, you get better results.

AST: DT AST is not it, it has diverse effects again, but everything is fixed, and when everything is fixed, it's also boring. Give back single draw, sleeve draw and time magic, give abilities like Spread and Royal Road to mitigate RNG.

Since cards are RNG, they can also be impactful again, no more small damage buffs, it can have stronger effects as they're not guaranteed.

SGE: I'll admit that I don't really like SGE and haven't played it much, but people are very passionate about wanting it to fulfill the DPS healer fantasy, so probably just go in that direction.

Healers

On the topic of them, besides making them not the most mind-numbing gaming experience I've ever seen conceived (especially in solo play) I can really only comment on scholar because it's the only one I ever play on the rare occasion I actually play healer.

SCH:

> Miasma, Bane, Shadowflare returned

> Dial back the fairy nonsense, I'm playing Scholar, I don't think turning into some fairy/angel thing exactly makes me feel like a scholar.

> Eos/Selene are baked in, regardless, so I'd like to see some offensive utility added back to them like they used to.

Phys Ranged

and for this, I can only comment on Bard since, like healers, I only really play this if and when I do play the role. (I should clarify I usually get around to leveling the others eventually, though). Oh, and for gods sake stop making MCH eat the crumbs off the floor when it's supposed to be the greedier dps of the bunch.

BRD:

I'd like to see DoT interaction make a comeback and to have a method of spreading the dots similar to Bane.

This might be controversial but I preferred when repertoire procced off of DoTs.

Bloodletter/Heartbreak shot is a bit of an odd one for me. I think it would be better if it got somewhat toned down and something more got added to it? It is called Bloodletter and Heartbreak shot, after all. Maybe it can grant a resist down debuff to the enemy/enemies inflicted?
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I'd like to make a side note I think I forgot to mention in my first post. I think execution abilities should return. The lower their health gets below a certain threshold the more damage they do.

I'm also biased. Give one to DRK, it's probably well suited to have one anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

On the topic of healers besides making them not the most mind-numbing gaming experience I've ever seen conceived (especially in solo play) I can really only comment on Scholar because it's the only one I ever play on the rare occasion I actually play healer.

Miasma, Bane, Shadowflare returned

Dial back the fairy nonsense, I'm playing Scholar, I don't think turning into some fairy/angel thing exactly makes me feel like a scholar.

Eos/Selene are baked in, regardless, so I'd like to see some offensive utility added back to them like they used to.

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I’m not the scholar guy anymore, so if damage buffs on faeries are what real scholar mains want, then by all means listen to them over me, but I don’t really want to see buffs on faeries myself.

I definitely think Eos and Selene should be different, but old Selene’s kit was not the right balance. Rather, I’d prefer to see Eos offer more healing throughput as she did before while Selene offers more utility. Drop Fey Illiumination and link the increased healing to Eos’ Whispering Dawn, and leave Fey Blessing as Eos’ burst heal. For Selene, instead of Silent Dusk, why not offer Whispering Dusk— an AOE magic damage reduction debuff that also inflicts Toad on regular enemies like trash mobs? And Selene gets Fey Storm instead of Fey Blessing, which is what expedient is converted into.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I’m not the scholar guy anymore, so if damage buffs on faeries are what real scholar mains want, then by all means listen to them over me, but I don’t really want to see buffs on faeries myself.

I definitely think Eos and Selene should be different, but old Selene’s kit was not the right balance. Rather, I’d prefer to see Eos offer more healing throughput as she did before while Selene offers more utility. Drop Fey Illiumination and link the increased healing to Eos’ Whispering Dawn, and leave Fey Blessing as Eos’ burst heal. For Selene, instead of Silent Dusk, why not offer Whispering Dusk— an AOE magic damage reduction debuff that also inflicts Toad on regular enemies like trash mobs? And Selene gets Fey Storm instead of Fey Blessing, which is what expedient is converted into.

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Oh, I'm by no means a scholar main, it's just the only healer I play really.

I gotta say having an ability that turns the trash mobs into toads sounds awesome lmao, I'd take that.

I honestly wasn't a fan of the Eos and Selene merge and would like to see them serve different purposes again, for sure.

Giving selene expedient isn't actually something I'd have thought of..that probably fits more than damage buffs or the like.

I've always seen Eos as the more raw healing focused and selene as the utility focused, so that's the basis I'd like to see them chase.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Oh, I'm by no means a scholar main, it's just the only healer I play really.

I gotta say having an ability that turns the trash mobs into toads sounds awesome lmao, I'd take that.

I honestly wasn't a fan of the Eos and Selene merge and would like to see them serve different purposes again, for sure.

Giving selene expedient isn't actually something I'd have thought of..that probably fits more than damage buffs or the like.

I've always seen Eos as the more raw healing focused and selene as the utility focused, so that's the basis I'd like to see them chase.

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I’ve wanted Scholar to inflict toad for ages as an alternative to White Mage’s stun. Astro also used to stun on Celestial Opposition which I miss. But toad is fun I think because it feels very fitting for faerie magic. I imagine Selene’s a little more mischievous, and so turning enemies into toads or pigs would feel really thematic. Ironically white mage got that effect in PVP as a single target disruption for some reason, something that seemed so left field in my opinion.

I think for lore memes we should have SCH inflict Tonberry.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

I think for lore memes we should have SCH inflict Tonberry.

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That’s a little morbid but we do have the tonberry minion model

8.0 new capstone: Tonberrism.

( big reveal: whm will get it )

Some GNB changes I think should happen

Gnashing Fang combo, and Continuation should be learned in the level 1-50 range

Fated Circle unlocks at an earlier level

When Continuation is learned, it unlocks every cartridge skill's Continuation proc, and any future cartridge skill's Continuation as well. Which means Double Down gets a Continuation proc (Ultimatum or Terminal Trigger would be cool names for a Continuation attack)

Blasting Zone becomes a line AOE

Lightning Shot grants a short buff that turns a Trajectory charge into Rough Divide

GNB needs some kind of 'get behind me' skill like Passage of Arms to explore its bodyguard/queen's guard identity

Camouflage should proc, and transform into an additional utility skill when used, maybe like a short super sprint like Occult Sprint.

A bit on the fence about this idea, but I think No Mercy, and Bow Shock could be merged. They both have similar animations. Like Bow Shock is mostly unchanged, maybe extend the radius a yalm, but it now grants the No Mercy buff to open up some hotbar space.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I’m not the scholar guy anymore, so if damage buffs on faeries are what real scholar mains want, then by all means listen to them over me, but I don’t really want to see buffs on faeries myself.

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I personally disagree with changing Selene into a fairy that increases damage in any way because it would enable the same griefing as back when WHM lilies were a damage loss, it would enable SCH players to do absolutely no healing and claim damage loss when you ask them to pull their weight. We already have this problem now with the people who exclusively use Aetherflow on Energy Drain no matter what, but at least the fairy is always healing, give the option of a damage fairy though and you'll get SCHs that will grief the party by outputting a grand total of 0 healing (depending on whether a damage type fairy retains Embrace or has an autoattack instead) and will cite damage loss when you ask them to do some healing.

It would be like solo healing without the benefits of having a 5th DPS job.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

[...] We already have this problem now with the people who exclusively use Aetherflow on Energy Drain no matter what, [...]

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... Whoops. I need to quit doing that. lol genuine question from a baby SCH, what is my skill prio then? I was always doing Fairy everything -> Share crit shield -> use aetherflow/hardcast if in a pinch and ideally save for Energy Drain, but it seems I had it all wrong.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

... Whoops. I need to quit doing that. lol genuine question from a baby SCH, what is my skill prio then? I was always doing Fairy everything -> Share crit shield -> use aetherflow/hardcast if in a pinch and ideally save for Energy Drain, but it seems I had it all wrong.

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Basically treat energy drain as if it doesn't exist unless it’s 10 seconds till aetherflow comes off CD and you still have 3 stacks of aetherflow

A general prioritisation of “recitation on indom or excog->fairy skills->aetherflow skills->spreadlo->GCD healing” isn’t bad but it’s always best to treat energy drain as if it doesn’t exist until such time as you have no need for aetherflow but to dump it to use aetherflow again, it simply isn’t worth it to do anything else

If you are sufficiently confident with a fight you can energy drain earlier if you know there is simply no way something will need it in the immediate future but that’s more optimisation than anything

Thanks! I'll try to quit griefing my future teams! :'D