M6s in PF is the most miserable and unfun high end fight in the game

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

I don't see a way they can fix that without having the devs sit down and be like "hey guys wait, we gotta make this mechanic in a way that accommodate people with 9-5 jobs that only wanna spend 4 weeks on this" and risk making the difficulty stale or even easier from tier to tier, they would risk another Light heavyweight tier if they do that in my opinion

Up to the PF player to manage their time and either grit their teeth and suffer for the sake not leaving the tier unfinished, or be like this is a waste of my time and quit, none of these two options are bad for content thats supposed to become more challenging

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The style of puzzle solver content they have only works at the lower levels of difficulty like EX fights, where just about anyone can sit down and confidently complete the content with a couple of goes, as the asking price of someone who has completed the content to go back and assist is also likewise low. What I stated above in my last post even applies to the light heavyweight tier because making it easier just means people in the early weeks clear faster and then we're back into the extremes of 1-2 week clears and then the rest are at 10-12+ weeks again.

For once, older MMOs got this down better where there was quantity being it's own quality and allowing people who were more casual to be a force multiplier. It rewarded the good players and gave the masses a way to access all things in the game. This whole idea is carried over in the action RPG genre like PoE2, where people can run others through the 4th ascendancy.

What also makes this perplexing is that they HAVE the special content already for the truly dedicated via ultimates, so there isn't even a good reason to be so strict on other content.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Savage isn't taken for granted. Just the experience varies depending on if someone is mostly coming home from work exhausted and then doing it with seven other people in the same boat, or if everyone is doing their best impression of a WoW Gamerfuel commercial and treating it like a learning exercise. Truth be told Ultimate is probably the better content for people who are in the latter camp and savage is just this garbage fire trainwreck that people bullrush to be done with in four weeks, or get left stranded and have to gouge their way through hell for 10+ weeks. There's really no in-between on this thing which is why it is shit content. They have the power to fix this but never do. I don't mind this kind of weirdness with single player games but MMOs it kind of sucks when the same thing that ended up spawning Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess and Wind Waker is at play with a live service game.

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How is that a SE issue when you decided to join and do it?

If you are exausted and canno't focus or be arsed to dedicate the time and energy for it, there is a much easier solution, not doing any of it.

people complain, when they faceroll content and have nothing left to do, people complain when they need 2 weeks to clear a fight and have, god forbid, 1-2 more weeks of content until the next patch drops

but dont worry, 7 is easier than 5+6

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

people complain, when they faceroll content and have nothing left to do, people complain when they need 2 weeks to clear a fight and have, god forbid, 1-2 more weeks of content until the next patch drops

but dont worry, 7 is easier than 5+6

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Pretty sure those complaining about lack of content aren't because of savage
there is 0 midcore content in the game

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Add fights are total crap because of the broken tab targeting that always gives you the wrong target when you push tab, dont know how this works on a controller, when you cant even click on enemies.

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Then the problem isn't the fights, the problem is the broken ass targeting.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Pretty sure those complaining about lack of content aren't because of savage
there is 0 midcore content in the game

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i think theres tons of midcore content in the game :)

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

i think theres tons of midcore content in the game :)

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There's one coming literally in a month.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Then the problem isn't the fights, the problem is the broken ass targeting.

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• X target is casting deadly ability
• Tabs target to interrupt X
• Also Tab: "Naaah, I think I prefer that one 47y away :3c"

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Originally Posted by Volgia

There's one coming literally in a month.

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theres 100 other ones that most people barely touched yet

I'm sorry OP for your misfortune but you took out any player responsibility and blamed all issues (that boil down to the quality of people you meet in game), to Square instead. It has nothing to do with Square or difficulty tuning.
Finding static will make your experience much happier.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

• X target is casting deadly ability
• Tabs target to interrupt X
• Also Tab: "Naaah, I think I prefer that one 47y away :3c"

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Ultimately I think like add prioritization and management is something that pve players haven't had to deal with for ages and have forgotten over time. Tab targeting may be ass for sure, but there is workarounds like macros, enemy list, keybinds/scrolling, manual select, or the new mark targeting actions we got added for 7.2, etc, whatever makes people most comfy with. It's possible to combine multiple of those tools depending on what one wants to do, which is something that is an integral part of pvp for example.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

• X target is casting deadly ability
• Tabs target to interrupt X
• Also Tab: "Naaah, I think I prefer that one 47y away :3c"

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Character Configuration -> Control Settings -> Target.
Switch your Target Type from "Ignore Depth" (default) to "Cone".

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Originally Posted by Alyko

Character Configuration -> Control Settings -> Target.
Switch your Target Type from "Ignore Depth" (default) to "Cone".

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that wont change the problem that the game targets in a circle instead of by distance.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

Character Configuration -> Control Settings -> Target.
Switch your Target Type from "Ignore Depth" (default) to "Cone".

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Been on "Cone" for years at this point. Game does not target the enemy closest to you period.

I hope they give it tweaks in next patch ad phase is demoralizing in most unfun way possible, give the mus and yans a debuff/buff where if they hit the same target they take increase dmg from the other not this bullshit radius that they got to close and can instant gib the tank.

I hope we get some actually meaningful job buffs next week to make this less painful. It feel like some jobs are just straight up missing cleave, and burst damage to handle killing adds, and were just not tested in this fight.

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

I hope they give it tweaks in next patch ad phase is demoralizing in most unfun way possible, give the mus and yans a debuff/buff where if they hit the same target they take increase dmg from the other not this bullshit radius that they got to close and can instant gib the tank.

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That reminds me of the radius on the adds in A12S. It would have been standard to expect things like that in Savage back then, so it's no wonder they're bringing it back when they're trying to design more like they did in Heavensward. Adds being separated was always a standard thing in this game, even in alliance raids, and I support making tanks actually have to get good at their job of positioning things. It was concerning when they began eroding that.

It doesn't really bother me if it's instant gib or just a heavy bleed type thing but the problem with "soft" punishments like Bleeds, Damage Downs or Vulns is they risk allowing for an "ignore mechanic" strat or "braindead strat". Really great examples of that are in the latest extreme trial, where you can simply ignore the effects of the donut AoEs and walk through them, and you don't even need tank LB3 to ignore the vulns in the last mechanic. It's arguably soft punishments like that which help make extreme trials as trivial as many people view them.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

How is that a SE issue when you decided to join and do it?

If you are exausted and canno't focus or be arsed to dedicate the time and energy for it, there is a much easier solution, not doing any of it.

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That is highly dependent upon perspective at least in terms of claiming this is an "SE problem". This also is not at all understanding what is being stated in the actual context of the prior post because you missed the part that followed which *explains* things in terms of solution. If someone creates a game that is catering to people who are mostly going to be in their late 20s at the earliest and potentially on upwards to their 40s-50s, how does the system enable people at different points to interact with one another fairly? The "problem" is that they are simultaneously building two games with completely different audiences and sandwiching them together. Older style MMOs handled this problem by simply understanding they were *community driven games*. They forced people much earlier on to work together in meaningful ways, which meant when people got to end game activities there was never a bridge to cross where someone was going "I got to go find a static to go do X end game fight", you already had a group that you grew up with and those people basically all worked in the same framework.

But with FFXIV, they just made a straight up single player game and slapped a bunch of random team based mini-games onto the end of it. No one grows into a community naturally anymore. They get dumped into a novice network right away and maybe talk to people who are mentors, who can help provide advise on things related to the game, but what exactly binds people together in this? There's no need to team up to level, gear is trivial, and the difficulty curve is sort of like a giant flatline that suddenly spikes into the stratosphere once they hit max level and actually get into EX fights and the like.

Rewinding back to why I even brought up PoE2, that game ironically has the most old school MMO feature in it and it isn't even something someone had to deliberately create. The game provides the ability to let more powerful players work with less powerful players to overcome challenges, which in older MMOs was handled via mass battles with filler roles. The main reason this isn't seen anymore is more of a weird "game designer" movement from what I've been able to gather where developers feel that if players are not experiencing all the steps to some fight, it is cheapening the experience for the player. What a player finds enjoyable is the experience that a game should deliver whether that is an easier time doing a hard fight by skipping mechanics, or taking on the hardest challenge possible in the game and coming out on top.

And FYI, I've now seen this kind of game design thought process through helldivers 2, PoE2, and FFXIV. Completely separate development teams all somehow coming to the conclusion that locking down fights and making it so people must experience the same hardship no matter what their skill level is at is somehow "correct". And they've been proven wrong in all three cases. Helldivers 2 had to completely back down from that approach and Grinding Gear Games is actively shortening the campaign as well as greatly improving loot drops. What is SE doing? Apparently just doing the same thing over and over again ignoring everyone. That last bit is why I said that is ending up like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess in that they seem blind to the issues.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I hope we get some actually meaningful job buffs next week to make this less painful. It feel like some jobs are just straight up missing cleave, and burst damage to handle killing adds, and were just not tested in this fight.

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I can burst nigh endlessly on BLM. In my very outdated, last-tier gear, I obliterate packs in Expert roulette in mere seconds.

Summoner bursts every summon. Even outside of Bahamut/Phoenix, it has actions like Slipstream that are strong AoE.

Red Mage can store up an awful lot of AoE bursts to do in succession. 100 Mana, + Manafication, it should wreck everything. Contre Sixt 420, Verholy/flare 650, Scorch 750, Resolution 860, Grand Impact 600.

Oh and let's not bother explaining Pictomancer. We all know Pictomancer's burst capabilities. :)

Viper of course can store up a whole succession of bursts of Reawaken if you include Serpent's Ire (750>480>480>480>480>1150). And Serpent's Ire itself unlocks a succession of 320>320>320>320. Not to mention its abundant ability to use Uncoiled Fury at 680 potency.

Machinist has got Chain Saw (600), Flamethrower (1000), Full Metal Field (900), Auto Crossbow+Checkmate spam, Bloblaster.

Bard has Pitch Perfect (360), Apex Arrow (600), Rain of Death spam (100), Barrage+Shadowbite (270), Blast Arrow (600), Reasonant Arrow (600), Radiant Oncore (900), all under various party buffs, Raging Strikes and Battle Voice and Radiant Finale.

Dragoon has got Wymwind Thrust (440), Dragonfire Dive (500), Geirskogul (250), Nastrond (720), Stardiver (840), Starcross (1000), Rise of the Dragon (550), with numerous buffs including Life Surge, Lance Charge and Battle Litancy.

Reaper has Plentiful Harvest (720), Communio (1100), Gluttony (520), Sacrificium (600), Perfectio (1300), Soul Scythe (180), Grim Swathe (140), Guillotine (200 or 260) again with buffs like Death's Design and Arcane Circle.

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

Well with machinist, they're baiting the manta ray in the nw most likely which means crossbow and bioblaster are useless. They only have chain saw, excavator and full metal that they can use with their ogcds on the ne manta since thats when they have to use them during the two minute buffs that happen there. Bard has their stuff plus buffs and same goes for dnc.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I can burst nigh endlessly on BLM. In my very outdated, last-tier gear, I obliterate packs in Expert roulette in mere seconds.

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

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Probably should have specified they're missing this kind of damage in between of odd, and even minutes where is actually kind of matters. I sure do wish Barrage had a shorter cooldown, then I might actually feel like I can help kill stuff.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Machinist has got Chain Saw (600), Flamethrower (1000), Full Metal Field (900), Auto Crossbow+Checkmate spam, Bloblaster.

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MCH AoE sucks and noone can deny it.
There is nothing you can hold on MCH except a Drill/Bioblaster charge without making every 2Min afterwards awkward af. (Edit: And the Chain Saw follow-up i guess)
Bioblaster has a 12y range .. good luck using it whenever you want like a DNC using his Saber Dance.
Crossbow needs 6 targets to be worth using over ST Blazing Shot. BRD and DNC need 2 for most if not all their AOE skills in comparison.
MCH has to interrupt his Heated Combo to use Scattergun while BRD is free to Ladonsbite whenever he wants. Both BRD and DNC are getting procs with ST Skills that can be used on ST and AoE.
And dont get me started on Flamethrower.... 100pps 250p per GCD while not generating any gauge.

Flamethrower 1000, full metal field 900? Full metal field = 1 ranged GCD, guaranteed critical direct hit. Flamethrower = 10 seconds, pretty much a melee ability.

With what Physical Rangeds are required to do, most MCHs don't use Flamethrower in M6S. It would have to be a very niche case and they probably wouldn't want to hold it for its full potency either. The job needs at minimum a 10% boost in AoE to match DNC, regardless of those "big" numbers.

Well I like the difficulty level. It's a good fight. Savage is expected to be hard so if some people cant clear it so be it.

Akshtually, Flamethrower is 1100 potency. Over 10s, which makes it closer to 250ish every standard GCD btw. It's not exactly a single GCD nuke with high pps.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It doesn't really bother me if it's instant gib or just a heavy bleed type thing but the problem with "soft" punishments like Bleeds, Damage Downs or Vulns is they risk allowing for an "ignore mechanic" strat or "braindead strat". Really great examples of that are in the latest extreme trial, where you can simply ignore the effects of the donut AoEs and walk through them, and you don't even need tank LB3 to ignore the vulns in the last mechanic. It's arguably soft punishments like that which help make extreme trials as trivial as many people view them.

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With a little thought it becomes less of a problem when the designer introduces more and more variables and variations. If the damage stacks or bleeds are tolerable at one stack, perhaps they become increasingly lethal very fast, on a scale that will be "ignorable" in later expansions at best. And perhaps groups can deal with one more stack with better gear but not more (it's like aurum vale when stacks where still relevant). It's a problem with how SE designs punishing debuffs currently: they are only created around individual mechanics without any thought for the whole encounter. If your debuffs stay longer, and start stacking with other mechanics giving them out like pancakes, then it becomes another story instead of having them disappear after clearing the next mechanic properly. Then perhaps you can have a bit of actual debuff and failure management going on.
M2S is a good example on how to make creative failure stacks as well, where every failure goes to stack on the boss during heart phases and results in increase damage AND the boss healing herself near the end by consuming them.
There is so many design levers they can use and yet refuse to. Perhaps your two adds can heal each other with the damage they deal until they get split. Perhaps they give each other damage buffs that are permanent as long as they're together. Perhaps they deal raid wide % based AOE as long as they're not separated (good luck changing anything to % based with overgear or unsync). I mean hell, remember O7S adds? Fail to clear the summoning circles and you get additional adds? Fail to split the mobs and they start reproducing?

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I hope we get some actually meaningful job buffs next week to make this less painful. It feel like some jobs are just straight up missing cleave, and burst damage to handle killing adds, and were just not tested in this fight.

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When people get their tome weapons, the adds will just melt. I've gone through adds with MCH and BRDs (where as DNCs are just king), and they adds still die really fast.

God last night had the shittiest pfs, a2c groups and lava groups alike that can't pass adds, and prog liars galore. Even anychest pfs kept messing up.

But finally today I entered an a2c group with 7 other people who've been stuck on this fight for weeks. We were all clear ready except for the pf leader, who kept messing up lava. What followed was a journey of the leader slowly learning and getting better at lava, while we all stuck together for multiple lockouts until FINALLY, the leader learned lava. And on the third lockout right before dinner, the 8 of us finally cleared M6S.

The state of M6S PF was utterly miserable, after last night I was very close to becoming a casual with no content to do, or at least an extreme-only raider. Until the stars aligned and I got the magical, golden PF with people who fulfil the three criteria of 1. Being good and consistent 2. Being willing to learn and communicate and 3. Having the time, patience, and good enough internet to raid.

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Originally Posted by Doomfist

God last night had the shittiest pfs, a2c groups and lava groups alike that can't pass adds, and prog liars galore. Even anychest pfs kept messing up.

But finally today I entered an a2c group with 7 other people who've been stuck on this fight for weeks. We were all clear ready except for the pf leader, who kept messing up lava. What followed was a journey of the leader slowly learning and getting better at lava, while we all stuck together for multiple lockouts until FINALLY, the leader learned lava. And on the third lockout right before dinner, the 8 of us finally cleared M6S.

The state of M6S PF was utterly miserable, after last night I was very close to becoming a casual with no content to do, or at least an extreme-only raider. Until the stars aligned and I got the magical, golden PF with people who fulfil the three criteria of 1. Being good and consistent 2. Being willing to learn and communicate and 3. Having the time, patience, and good enough internet to raid.

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This happened to me a few times. Somewhere in PF players mind they think that getting through adds is "Basically a clear", so they will trap you at lava by failing their jumps.

The strength of MCH in this fight is not its cleave damage but its ability to store gauge and dispatch key single target threats easily, something the other two p. range are going to have more trouble with due to their lower personal damage. MCH can still contribute to some cleave after this fact but it will not be as good as DNC with all its cleaves. While Mu/cleave damage is important, it is far from the only thing that matters to successfully clear this fight.

The data we have simply cannot easily show this and so it seems like MCH is awful for the add phase when it's actually fine.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

True but good people in PF shouldn't be gated for weeks on end because a fight is designed seemingly only for statics or PF with week 7 gear. It makes good players who can't static and don't have 12 hours a day to PF week 1 want to unsubscribe. I kinda do right now. 2% for days now is killing me. I spent 10 hours progging TEA to clear and 15 hours doing this. TEA was fun even in PF. This blows.

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I spent 80 hours on p3s. Well, that did make me quit raiding

Just to be clear, M6S MCH is not fine by any means, if we're comparing it to DNC. Is Machinist single target better? Yes, but everyone will single target the first jabberwock if the mus are dead by then, and this also frees all 4 ranged players to hit the second cat. DNC will also allow the party to swap to the third cat earlier, due do their melee always hitting the SE manta. Machinist is better for the first yan and cat (before raid buffs), and that's it.

This cope thought that MCH is fine and has its strengths is what's keeping it at the bottom for 3 expansions now. Numbers can't be argued.

My only observation in add phase is that please if you see mch or smn in your party help with the cat, I have seen many partys that the meeles completely ignore the cat when they kill the mus, sometimes the ranges don't reach the cat because it moves a lot and goes from end to end, if you have it close please hit it.

I am still stuck on adds on M6S its not getting any better. I have beat all the other savage fights but this one is way too hard and I think should be nerfed. Although SE very rarely adjusts fights in this game. I play a tank so if the DPS constantly can't kill the adds there is not much I can do to make them die faster. The other problem is people will leave usually after 2 or 3 pulls, I seen groups where someone leaves after 1 pull even. I don't think the 2nd fight should take this long to clear. Gear does not really help much because you don't gain much only beating the first fight and getting tomestone gear.

I have a feeling that this fight will just cause a lot of players to skip this tier because the fight is so frustratingly hard to prog. You spend more time waiting in the PF for people to join then actually doing the fight only to have someone leave after a couple pulls.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

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Not only coordination, but mainly, management. The add phase requires all jobs to come into it with as many resources available as possible. As a SAM, I have a tendo follow up stored, all 3 sen, full kenki gauge, and 2nd charge of meikyo is ready in 30 seconds when the add phase starts. However, experience shows, that many people simply do their normal rotation before, i.e. don't pool anything and just blast the boss as much as possible, but also use their 2 minute abilities (many of which are the main source of cleave damage for a class) when it becomes available, unloading it on the 1st yan. Even the "hold burst till 2nd wave" is not enough, because that usually means that everyone is bursting the 1st manta / mu pack, and is then completely out of juice for 1st jabba. The key is here to learn how to properly manage resources available, and deal as much damage as is necessary, not as much as possible.

Another example, many classes build resources faster doing aoe, i.e. SAM can build blue and purple sen in 2 gcds instead of 3 gcds like in the single target rotation. But just because the resources were built with aoe, doesn't mean they need to be spend on aoe. This all isn't helped by pfs over-reliance on guides spelling everything out in detail or it doesn't exist (with the first raidplan popular in w1 telling healers to dps the 1st mus, because mechanics weren't properly understood), as well as the unwillingness to change to a better strategy if it comes out. Quite frankly, I also suspect that one very large reason that this fight is such an insurmountable wall in pf is the reliance on plugins to do their rotation, which utterly fail during a phase with so many moving parts. The tank being a bit slower to move the adds is no problem for a dps actually playing, but with autoroation that can mean that all the cleave is completely wasted. Frankly, just from this aspect, SE need to do more such fights that require holding burst a bit and spacing it out.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Most jobs have had "gauges" since Stormblood so that they can store up their firepower if needed. I know we are all used to saving that for bosses, but maybe the test is to actually use that on trash for once and manage it strategically for once.

I agree that looking at the classes, some of them aren't designed as ideally as others for situations like this, but ultimately gauges are a standard feature of most jobs now and MCH have cleared the fight.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

but maybe the test is to actually use that on trash for once and manage it strategically for once.

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It is. The add phase is 4 dps checks, not one. And the first wave being only single mobs but right during the time window 2 minute burst comes up is likely very deliberate to bait people into burning up their CDs if they mindlessly do their normal rotation. The adds also live quite a long time (the whole phase is 2 min something), so dots on most mobs tick their whole duration. Yet, I've seen people not even considering that, because the guide says "focus". The difference between a properly coordinate and managed approached compared to the "just add more violence" approach that many parties in PF do, is absolutely massive. Add to the fact that it's also a very valid strategy to have the yans be dragged around for the 2nd jabba, resulting in yan #2 actually dying, which means the OT will be very much alive and healer resources are freed up. But good luck trying to convince pf of changing strats.

I cleared in PF last Tuesday and was just exhausted afterwards to the point that I still haven't tried M7. It took about 240 pulls to clear, it was getting close to double what it took to get past Wicked Thunder. On pull 151 or something was the first time I saw past adds, and the first few minutes of the fight are really boring and easy so it was kind of maddening to do that over and over again. I think I put in several 5-6 hour sessions just trying to push through and it was so tough.

What was really getting me frustrated was how inconsistent PF was on this fight, I would get a group that could get past adds and they couldn't comprehend the lava segment at all. It's literally just "step in your tower" and if you're using Hector or a raidplan it's an entirely fixed position and people still wouldn't do it. I got extremely lucky on Tuesday and the group was a 6/8 static and we cleared the fight in four pulls.

I tanked the entire thing, what usually got me killed wasn't lack of damage it was just healers straight up not healing or mitting. There's a good bit on the last add phase where you pretty much need to just gcd heal both tanks as they are completely out of mits at that point and often times either me or the other tank are just not healed and we die cause "gcd healing is bad" is so engraved in a lot of healer's brains. I would put up mits for the raid wide and often times my mit was the only thing up, so the party just died to the raidwide over and over cause the shield healer wouldn't mit it. This fight was pure misery to do.

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Originally Posted by Servebotfrank

I tanked the entire thing, what usually got me killed wasn't lack of damage it was just healers straight up not healing or mitting. There's a good bit on the last add phase where you pretty much need to just gcd heal both tanks as they are completely out of mits at that point and often times either me or the other tank are just not healed and we die cause "gcd healing is bad" is so engraved in a lot of healer's brains. I would put up mits for the raid wide and often times my mit was the only thing up, so the party just died to the raidwide over and over cause the shield healer wouldn't mit it. This fight was pure misery to do.

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congratulations, i have only managed to get through the add phase ONCE, usually wipe to enrage squirrels or enrage boss because people just dont kill them fast enough.
I guess i have to wait for week 7 when people got the Tome Weapons to do more damage, i am close to throwing the towel.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I am still stuck on adds on M6S its not getting any better. I have beat all the other savage fights but this one is way too hard and I think should be nerfed. Although SE very rarely adjusts fights in this game. I play a tank so if the DPS constantly can't kill the adds there is not much I can do to make them die faster. The other problem is people will leave usually after 2 or 3 pulls, I seen groups where someone leaves after 1 pull even. I don't think the 2nd fight should take this long to clear. Gear does not really help much because you don't gain much only beating the first fight and getting tomestone gear.

I have a feeling that this fight will just cause a lot of players to skip this tier because the fight is so frustratingly hard to prog. You spend more time waiting in the PF for people to join then actually doing the fight only to have someone leave after a couple pulls.

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It's nothing hard about phase. You just need to know to cleave, move (if you are a tank), and focus order. The fact that the vast majority have no clue how to handle something so basic is really concerning. I would say SE needs to continue to ramp up the difficulty. It's clear that making 2 joke tiers was a huge mistake.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

It's nothing hard about phase. You just need to know to cleave, move (if you are a tank), and focus order. The fact that the vast majority have no clue how to handle something so basic is really concerning. I would say SE needs to continue to ramp up the difficulty.

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Agreed. SE should keep it up and then players will start to learn how to play and become better, then mechanics like this won't be such a surprise to them - like they weren't in Heavensward.