FF 14 has the worst dungeons

The problem came about due to the fact people would pull wall to wall back when the game first came out and would do all in their power to ignore deviating from the main path in order to complete the dungeon as fast as possible. The dev team, in their infinite wisdom, decided to play into that by making all dungeons over time essentially a glorified hallway with a sprinkle of trash mobs here and there.

The dev team has a very bad habit of appealing to parts of the playerbase that try to do everything in their power to make things as monotonously efficient and sterile as humanly possible.

I really wish fun came first before efficiency more often when it came to all content in this game, period. :(

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Originally Posted by Arohk

i highly doubt that the "majority" of players even uses this system, does anyone have actual numbers?
There is no benefit in running with NPC's over players, usually a dungeon with NPC's takes twice as long to finish, the only reason i see to use this if you are playing late at night and can't find a party for anything.

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Other than dps queue times, there are two massive advantages. Lower-skilled players use them to avoid wasting the precious time of higher-skilled players, most of whom just want to get the dungeon done as quickly and efficiently as possible. Complementary to that, lower-skilled players can enjoy the dungeons at their own pace.

Thus lower-skilled players can safely run dungeons knowing they are not going to get laughed at on these forums by gaming gods, who seem to think anyone who isn't as good as them lack reading and observational skills, while the high-skilled players can min-max the snot out of the "braindead" dungeons.

But as I've noted elsewhere, if higher-skilled players want more difficult dungeons, the only solution is dual- or tri-mode dungeon difficulty. Because SQEX isn't about to gate the people they seduced with a once-compelling story via harder dungeons.

All that said, I don't think FF14 dungeons are boring because they're easy. They're boring because they are formulaic and rely almost exclusively for their challenge on DDR slop.

FFXIV dungeon bosses have been great, but the trash is still trash. A bit of a take, but I think designing dungeons around wall to wall pulls is doing more harm than good. It turns every dungeon into the same murder corridor. Combat in the spaces between bosses needs to be more varied so that the answer isn't just bulldoze through a bunch of random enemies.

Something something Criterion trash wink wink nudge nudge.
The only part of Criterion that I actually find pretty stellar (bosses are just doubling down on regurgitated obnoxious ddr raid mechanics).

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Originally Posted by Valence

Something something Criterion trash wink wink nudge nudge.
The only part of Criterion that I actually find pretty stellar (bosses are just doubling down on regurgitated obnoxious ddr raid mechanics).

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Agree so much. I first ran them with a friend, both of us commenting that the trash mobs were actually something a little different. Then we hit the boss and.... ah... this crap again.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

FFXIV dungeon bosses have been great, but the trash is still trash. A bit of a take, but I think designing dungeons around wall to wall pulls is doing more harm than good. It turns every dungeon into the same murder corridor. Combat in the spaces between bosses needs to be more varied so that the answer isn't just bulldoze through a bunch of random enemies.

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This. The murder bees in a few of the ARR dungeons is a good example of having an enemy you actually have to keep your eye on, otherwise they could potentially kill the Tank or another party member if the Tank failed to notice and pull them.

If there were at least 2 or 3 trash enemies per dungeon that you actually had to pay attention to and dispatch, stun, sleep; etc. In order to make sure they don't cause any sort of problems for player party, then I think trash mobs would be at least somewhat more enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by TakoyakiLala

This. The murder bees in a few of the ARR dungeons is a good example of having an enemy you actually have to keep your eye on, otherwise they could potentially kill the Tank or another party member if the Tank failed to notice and pull them.

If there were at least 2 or 3 trash enemies per dungeon that you actually had to pay attention to and dispatch, stun, sleep; etc. In order to make sure they don't cause any sort of problems for player party, then I think trash mobs would be at least somewhat more enjoyable.

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Agreed, and similar ideas could be applied to bosses as well. While there are exceptions, the typical boss arena fight is avoiding their attacks/mechanics while trying to maintain your offensive rotation. This isn't a lack of imagination, it's a complete absence of imagination.

To some extent maybe this goes back to the job kits. But even with the current ones we have sleep, stuns and interrupts that we rarely get to use. Perhaps the path to more interesting fight design is to require more than dps maximization and standing on the right pixel.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

To some extent maybe this goes back to the job kits. But even with the current ones we have sleep, stuns and interrupts that we rarely get to use. Perhaps the path to more interesting fight design is to require more than dps maximization and standing on the right pixel.

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You could make a case for dungeons having to be designed around the now equally boring and formulaic job kits...if they didn't already have this dungeon design pretty much since Stormblood, when job kits still included a lot more crowd control effects.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

require more than dps maximization and standing on the right pixel

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never gonna happen. this game from top to bottom is designed for log-brainrotten parsers

Regardless, people will always streamline and find the easiest, fastest, and least friction path. This applies to every single game, even those that offer ample variation and complexity.

That's why every single game under the sun has a guide on how to achieve the best, the fastest X. (The best build, the fastest gold, the fastest levels, the best specs, the best gear.. etc)

It 1000% does.

It stinks because no matter what you do, the players will streamline it, and SquareEnix has given up trying.

You can maintain the “side paths are useless because people will only go the optimal route” idea while still at least attempting to hide this design element in environmental storytelling and making what is there good

For the former something like shisui is actually a pretty good representation of “single path but it doesn’t feel like it” because a lot of almost immediate dead ends are hidden in the design of the palace. It feels like there COULD be more paths even if there isn’t. Compare this to say aetherfont that really makes you feel like you are on a guided tour

As for the latter interesting trash mechanics you have to interact with doesn’t clash with “people will optimise out the lesser options” because this games dungeons enforce trash encounters

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Regardless, people will always streamline and find the easiest, fastest, and least friction path. This applies to every single game, even those that offer ample variation and complexity.

That's why every single game under the sun has a guide on how to achieve the best, the fastest X. (The best build, the fastest gold, the fastest levels, the best specs, the best gear.. etc)

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Of course people are going to optimize everything, there is fun in the process and seeing the results work out.

The problem is when the game gets designed in such a way that the optimized way is the baseline, it not only destroys it for the people who aren't trying to optimize but also for those that do.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can maintain the “side paths are useless because people will only go the optimal route” idea while still at least attempting to hide this design element in environmental storytelling and making what is there good

For the former something like shisui is actually a pretty good representation of “single path but it doesn’t feel like it” because a lot of almost immediate dead ends are hidden in the design of the palace. It feels like there COULD be more paths even if there isn’t. Compare this to say aetherfont that really makes you feel like you are on a guided tour

As for the latter interesting trash mechanics you have to interact with doesn’t clash with “people will optimise out the lesser options” because this games dungeons enforce trash encounters

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All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

I am pretty much used to this, and I expect this format in MMOs. But then again, perhaps I don't understand the requests because I personally don't care about dungeons. I was never a casual in the strict sense of just doing the story and then coming back at the next patch cycle. I always raided, and I always did end game content. Dungeons were a means to an end. To help me gear and access the end content.

If I wanted narratives that I wanted to explore and which offered rich experiences, I always looked for games that were centered around that. Baldur's Gate 3 is the latest prime example of this.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

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Funny you mentioned GW2, because that game has dungeons with mechanics you can't just ignore and they all have different paths you can take. Granted, they've been abandoned by the dev team shortly after release, but they are the literal opposite of what you describe.
Unless you only did CoF back in the day when that was a decent way to farm money. But even then, there was an event you had to do to even get access to the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

I am pretty much used to this, and I expect this format in MMOs. But then again, perhaps I don't understand the requests because I personally don't care about dungeons. I was never a casual in the strict sense of just doing the story and then coming back at the next patch cycle. I always raided, and I always did end game content. Dungeons were a means to an end. To help me gear and access the end content.

If I wanted narratives that I wanted to explore and which offered rich experiences, I always looked for games that were centered around that. Baldur's Gate 3 is the latest prime example of this.

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I don’t get why you replied to me

I understand and accept that the nebulous “15 path dungeon with all being equally useful and leading to meaningful story divergence” is a fairytale. I’m saying that that mindset doesn’t preclude still

1) at least trying to pretend like the dungeon isn’t a curated hallway (zot and aetherfont looking at you two specifically)
2) making trash meaningful

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Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

Funny you mentioned GW2, because that game has dungeons with mechanics you can't just ignore and they all have different paths you can take. Granted, they've been abandoned by the dev team shortly after release, but they are the literal opposite of what you describe.
Unless you only did CoF back in the day when that was a decent way to farm money. But even then, there was an event you had to do to even get access to the dungeon.

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I just recently did a story dungeon in GW2 with their equivalent of trust, and it's exactly the same. The only major difference is that I never thought it possible that another game would make a worse version of Trust, and yet Gw2 managed to deliver on it. While some of the bosses had quite interesting mechanics (for the first time) everything else was a pretty awful experience..LOL. Still linear and essential a corridor but with absolutely dogshit AI for the Trust. Never again..

In my opinion the problem is that it is really too brainded and all the same, just with a different backdrop.

There is no feel of excitement when I hear about a new dungeon. Because I already know that it's some packs of trashmobs
from wall to wall and 3 bosses. Nothing else to do here.

Most of the time, there is nothing to really explore. I appreciate the newest dungeon because when I ran it first with trusts, I could explore a lot of siderooms.
Sadly there was nothing really to find there. x3

Of course people will streamline everything. But we also want to explore new exciting stuff, befooore we streamline it! ^w^

The whole PvE is garbage and has to be revamped from the ground up. Make it about skill and decision-making, not about learning a job's piano rotation executed ad nauseam and going from learning one script to the next.

Or maybe just scrap this console game as a whole and start fresh with a PC-only FF MMO so it can have real mechanics and brain input.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Or maybe just scrap this console game as a whole and start fresh with a PC-only FF MMO so it can have real mechanics and brain input.

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What does console have anything to do with this??

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I don’t get why you replied to me

I understand and accept that the nebulous “15 path dungeon with all being equally useful and leading to meaningful story divergence” is a fairytale. I’m saying that that mindset doesn’t preclude still

1) at least trying to pretend like the dungeon isn’t a curated hallway (zot and aetherfont looking at you two specifically)
2) making trash meaningful

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I mean to add onto this, every dungeon in God of War is linear. But they do a lot to disguise that, and it's not even about adding branching paths. In Alfheim for example there is a lot of verticality. Sure you need to go down a spiral staircase here, but the verticality, of seeing a path below you and above you adds a lot to the sense that you're not just walking down a corridor but are actually in a real temple.

There is also backtracking and interactivity, for example you pull a lever and the whole ground shifts to reveal another level in front of the temple. So you go back through there and now you are able to access the path forward.

Haukke Manor is incredibly linear and is probably the closest thing they've got to modern AAA design, but it's still pretty far.

Doing this unfortunately requires some serious effort put into planning and design, so you'll never ever see it happen.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I played quite a few mmos but FF 14 is king for having the most boring dungeons I ever played. FF 14 dungeons are exactly the same from one another. Trash mobs are pointless, you have invisible walls so you can't pull more then 2 packs of mobs.. is it so hard to make dungeons unique?

I don't understand why YoshyP is fine with this.. I refuse to farm these boring dungeons for tomes.

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The main thing that still retains some uniqueness, unless they changed it, was sastasha's dungeon and how you can incidentally not fill up the entire dungeon map if you don't go exploring "the hole" or where-ever they keep the prisoners. Unless they changed it and you don't need to check what color the thing is. Toe-toe rak got simplified, among some other ones. Newer dungeons just feel like an arcade beat-em-up I swear. The formula is: [Walk across scree, pack of mobs, walk across screen, pack of mobs, maybe something level themed happens + pack of mobs, walk, mini-boss/boss fight time.]
The visuals and UI remind me a lot of an arcade-like game, but their newer dungeons really lean into it.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I just recently did a story dungeon in GW2 with their equivalent of trust, and it's exactly the same. The only major difference is that I never thought it possible that another game would make a worse version of Trust, and yet Gw2 managed to deliver on it. While some of the bosses had quite interesting mechanics (for the first time) everything else was a pretty awful experience..LOL. Still linear and essential a corridor but with absolutely dogshit AI for the Trust. Never again..

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The explorable(higher level "sequel") versions of dungeons all have 3 mutually exclusive paths that are completely different. 2 of them required event chains to be completed to unlock the entrances, but I don't know if they got rid of that or not.

I think the dungeons are visually great, and the boss fights within them are usually just enough of a challenge to not be boring. But yea, mechanically they are really all the same; you'll never go into one wondering what it's going to be like. It speaks to a greater issue with the game, that there's no real difficulty in any of the casual content. Trash mobs and world mobs are no challenge, you just spend a long time fighting them; they are an annoyance mor than a challenge.

Dungeons are themeparks and trials are recitals.

A long time ago, I was playing EQ2. There was this volcano zone that was designed to be a dungeon crawl. It wasn't instanced. The players that pioneered the path through it - did a lot of exploring every inch of the area. In the end, the enemies that dropped loot were identified and the path was essentially the most linear line you could make from entrance to Boss #1, to #2, to #3, etc. You could skip about 75% of this dangerous area once you knew the "efficient way" to go.

With a little more gear, it was found that you could train the entire zone to Boss#1, and there was a method where a Monk could force a "feign death" on a healer. Drag everything, make sure the healer is "safely" feigning death - then allow a wipe. Healer raises everyone up. Bring a few monks to do this to multiple healers, and now you have the entire raid group back up in a few minutes pulling the first boss.

In other words, efficient paths are found... and then even more efficient methods can be found. While I'm all for more interesting dungeons, at the end of the day, players you meet in duty finder are going to wait to blitz the content as fast as possible. So, even the "interesting content" will become dull after a while since you'll just go through it the same way every time.

The proplem with 14 dungeons is they are designed booring on purpose, Unlike lets just say a WoW dungeon had some kinda complex things you had to do or you just died simple as that and every dungeon was really Unique.

FF14s devs like to throw in a new animation and say OH WE DONE its a unique fight now and be done with it, In arr the bosses and everything was unique and well designed even if people hated some of the dungeons *cough* stone vigil but those are things that forever remembered by a player I mean AV is probably the most hated dungeon in the game yet its the best design and everyone will remember it, noone will remember half the dungeons after stormblood because they just rehash the same fights with new animations and names.


In most other games every piece of the game feels alive and enjoyable, In ff14 they take "for anyone to get through" way to seriosely which makes things feel dead and not in a good way half the fights you can autopilot them just by muscle memory alone and not die and do the max dps for your job because every fight is a 1 2 3 4 then phase shift 4 2 3 1 you dont have to think you dont have to do anything but build a muscle memory for the fight lol the fights are basicly like dancing or riding a bike its always the same every single time once your body remembers it physically you will never fail it unless they change it like they have been doing many places then you have to change your muscle memory

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Originally Posted by ovIm

It wasn't always like this. Dungeons used to be a tad more exciting in what they asked players to do. But that had to be pushed away for a more "streamlined" experience (read - playable by bots so duty support works).




Neither am I. considering he himself claims he feels like falling asleep during dungeons.

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I find this to be the smoking gun that he does not give a shit about this game anymore.

Mao thinkings another part why dungeons so borings is that boss fights becoming increasingly little more than DDR. Is scripted dances whats need only memorizing the dance steps and to has the mobility to do these steps. Is soulless fights with no randomness, no spirit of adventure. Is fights whats always the same. Mind numbings. Is why Mao subscription has been cancelled. Mao nots want pay for game whats now too borings for Mao.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao thinkings another part why dungeons so borings is that boss fights becoming increasingly little more than DDR. Is scripted dances whats need only memorizing the dance steps and to has the mobility to do these steps. Is soulless fights with no randomness, no spirit of adventure. Is fights whats always the same. Mind numbings. Is why Mao subscription has been cancelled. Mao nots want pay for game whats now too borings for Mao.

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DDR has really always been the dominant mechanic in the game, to be fair. The only real difference between the different difficulty tiers in this game is how difficult of a mental puzzle you have to solve (and how quickly you have to solve it) to perform the proper DDR. It's honestly impressive just how much cool stuff they've been able to do for so long with just "go stand in the right spot" being the only real mechanic resolution. But yeah it's finally starting to wear thin. Really worried M5S-M8S is just gonna be another 30 flavors of "this tell means pairs, this tell means spread, remember this stored mechanic for six minutes from now."

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Originally Posted by TemporalFruitsAndVeggies

DDR has really always been the dominant mechanic in the game, to be fair. The only real difference between the different difficulty tiers in this game is how difficult of a mental puzzle you have to solve (and how quickly you have to solve it) to perform the proper DDR. It's honestly impressive just how much cool stuff they've been able to do for so long with just "go stand in the right spot" being the only real mechanic resolution. But yeah it's finally starting to wear thin. Really worried M5S-M8S is just gonna be another 30 flavors of "this tell means pairs, this tell means spread, remember this stored mechanic for six minutes from now."

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What I find impressive is that players have tolerated this same one-trick pony for so long.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao thinkings another part why dungeons so borings is that boss fights becoming increasingly little more than DDR. Is scripted dances whats need only memorizing the dance steps and to has the mobility to do these steps. Is soulless fights with no randomness, no spirit of adventure. Is fights whats always the same. Mind numbings. Is why Mao subscription has been cancelled. Mao nots want pay for game whats now too borings for Mao.

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But how are you going to make a fight that is completely RNG? You still need restrictions on when things can come out, don't want the possibility for a tank buster to be your only mechanic for a whole minute after all, or even just a minute of raid wides. Once you start adding restrictions to when things can happen, you start to notice patterns. Take this a step further i that you don't want the harder version of attacks to happen at the start of the fight and weaker ones at the end, we now have more structure, reducing the possibilities.

This is before we even mention the fights haven't been increasing more towards DDR, they have always been the same level of DDR. Knowing Titan Extreme's attack pattern so you know when to use your defensives, even Titan Hard has an easy way to remember when Mountain Buster is coming out (Landslide > Rock Buster > Mountain Buster in last phase only). Pick any fight and they are all the same mechanics happening in the same order.

So, what does a fight need to look like in order for you to consider it not 'DDR' like?

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

But how are you going to make a fight that is completely RNG? You still need restrictions on when things can come out, don't want the possibility for a tank buster to be your only mechanic for a whole minute after all, or even just a minute of raid wides. Once you start adding restrictions to when things can happen, you start to notice patterns. Take this a step further i that you don't want the harder version of attacks to happen at the start of the fight and weaker ones at the end, we now have more structure, reducing the possibilities.

This is before we even mention the fights haven't been increasing more towards DDR, they have always been the same level of DDR. Knowing Titan Extreme's attack pattern so you know when to use your defensives, even Titan Hard has an easy way to remember when Mountain Buster is coming out (Landslide > Rock Buster > Mountain Buster in last phase only). Pick any fight and they are all the same mechanics happening in the same order.

So, what does a fight need to look like in order for you to consider it not 'DDR' like?

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It's not difficult to randomize which attack occurs when, and some 14 fights actually do this.

I'd suggest the bigger issue is how the mechanics require you to respond. In many cases, the solution to the mechanic is "run to the safe spot." That is lazy design IMO, but likely inevitable given the job kits.

One solution is to give the jobs more crowd control and interrupt abilities, so that rather than DDR we have pseudo-random attacks that require countering instead of avoiding.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It's not difficult to randomize which attack occurs when, and some 14 fights actually do this.

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To a point, yes. But there does still need to be structure. It might be that attacks A-B-C happen between tank busters and whether it comes out as B-C-A or C-B-A does it really matter? You already said some fights do this, but that doesn't seem to matter to the person I responded to.

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I'd suggest the bigger issue is how the mechanics require you to respond. In many cases, the solution to the mechanic is "run to the safe spot." That is lazy design IMO, but likely inevitable given the job kits.

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Well, you aren't going to run to the unsafe spot are you? Joking aside, the only other thing there is is damage and how it comes out. Does it just hit hard, does it apply a bleed etc. Even if you want to add special status effects, you just deal with them as necessary by, going to the safe spot and healing through the damage.

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One solution is to give the jobs more crowd control and interrupt abilities, so that rather than DDR we have pseudo-random attacks that require countering instead of avoiding.

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The only real crowd control that works is stunning, there is no reason to apply anything else as the other major one, sleep, they get woken up by anything anyway, so it is a waste of that GCD. Interrupts can make trash packs more dangerous and should be used more, but they have to be careful with bosses. Even then though, it is a case of just interrupting when the bar flashes, easy to react to. This game does have 'pseudo random' attacks, it is going to attack a DPS, but we don't know which one. But again, how do you plan to counter it? Is it just a case of interrupt/stun it? Does it require sleep? At which point the calcs are done to determine whether losing that GCD on sleep is worth the damage loss, where, 90% of the time, as long as it doesn't kill/cause a death, it won't be worth it.

With stuns/interrupts on bosses, you do also have to consider, how is that going to mess the boss up? Ifrit Hard can still be stunned and with it, you can stun his almost room wide eruptions, making it a mechanic you can completely ignore. His most dangerous attack is now powerless. Similar things can be said about Interrupt. I have made a suggestion that stuns/interrupts could be reworked in some fights where it changes the damage profile of attacks, essentially tailoring the damage to your healer comp. This is then you working with your healers to make their life easier.

Regardless though, everything is still scripted.

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Originally Posted by TemporalFruitsAndVeggies

DDR has really always been the dominant mechanic in the game, to be fair. The only real difference between the different difficulty tiers in this game is how difficult of a mental puzzle you have to solve (and how quickly you have to solve it) to perform the proper DDR. It's honestly impressive just how much cool stuff they've been able to do for so long with just "go stand in the right spot" being the only real mechanic resolution. But yeah it's finally starting to wear thin. Really worried M5S-M8S is just gonna be another 30 flavors of "this tell means pairs, this tell means spread, remember this stored mechanic for six minutes from now."

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How long have you been playing the game? Because that's definitely not what I remember from ARR/HW gameplay.

( and don't tell me "they had AoE telegraphs too" )

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

But how are you going to make a fight that is completely RNG? You still need restrictions on when things can come out, don't want the possibility for a tank buster to be your only mechanic for a whole minute after all, or even just a minute of raid wides. Once you start adding restrictions to when things can happen, you start to notice patterns. Take this a step further i that you don't want the harder version of attacks to happen at the start of the fight and weaker ones at the end, we now have more structure, reducing the possibilities.

This is before we even mention the fights haven't been increasing more towards DDR, they have always been the same level of DDR. Knowing Titan Extreme's attack pattern so you know when to use your defensives, even Titan Hard has an easy way to remember when Mountain Buster is coming out (Landslide > Rock Buster > Mountain Buster in last phase only). Pick any fight and they are all the same mechanics happening in the same order.

So, what does a fight need to look like in order for you to consider it not 'DDR' like?

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Nobody here is advocating for a full rng soup, which this game has never been.

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Originally Posted by Valence

How long have you been playing the game? Because that's definitely not what I remember from ARR/HW gameplay.

( and don't tell me "they had AoE telegraphs too" )



Nobody here is advocating for a full rng soup, which this game has never been.

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Is TRUE! Sunie and Jessa understand whats Mao talkings about. Is no need to make everythings completely random. Just get rid of hyper-tuned dance (little bits dance oks), tone down mechanics barfage, add in some random elements and now spirit of adventures is back. Fights will has much replay value! Is nots gonna be borings anymore! Mao also likes idea of adding more CC and Interrupts to some job kits to allow for more varied fights. Will also has effect of de-homogenizing jobs.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It's not difficult to randomize which attack occurs when, and some 14 fights actually do this.

I'd suggest the bigger issue is how the mechanics require you to respond. In many cases, the solution to the mechanic is "run to the safe spot." That is lazy design IMO, but likely inevitable given the job kits.

One solution is to give the jobs more crowd control and interrupt abilities, so that rather than DDR we have pseudo-random attacks that require countering instead of avoiding.

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How would you suggest they completely randomize attacks and provide infinite variations? Please provide a coding solution and an example of how this can be achieved and integrated into the FF14 code backend. Who knows, maybe some dev will look at your post and implement your solution into the code itself.

It looks like you have this solution since it's so easy. This is your time to shine!

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

How would you suggest they completely randomize attacks and provide infinite variations? Please provide a coding solution and an example of how this can be achieved and integrated into the FF14 code backend. Who knows, maybe some dev will look at your post and implement your solution into the code itself.

It looks like you have this solution since it's so easy. This is your time to shine!

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Mao gives example that Mao gave little bits while ago. Boss has phase where hims planning to do attack. Dice is rolled. On 1-3, Boss summons bunch of mooks to join fight. On 4-6, Boss throws rock at party member outside of melee range. When rock lands, is begin slow roll out of arena. If players bust rock before it rolls out, is award them with Gils because is turn out that rock is actually Geode full of gems. If this phase happens on average 4-8 times per fight, is already, just this one random element by itself, make for 2 to the power of 4 to 8, possible different fights. If add one or two more random elements, can has much MUCH more variations! Is not take much to make fights exciting agains!

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

How would you suggest they completely randomize attacks and provide infinite variations? Please provide a coding solution and an example of how this can be achieved and integrated into the FF14 code backend. Who knows, maybe some dev will look at your post and implement your solution into the code itself.

It looks like you have this solution since it's so easy. This is your time to shine!

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I've suggested no such design, as the quote of mine you've embedded clearly demonstrates.

There's a broad spectrum between DDR monotony and infinite chaos. I think it would be good for the game if we unglued the needle from the DDR end.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I've suggested no such design, as the quote of mine you've embedded clearly demonstrates.

There's a broad spectrum between DDR monotony and infinite chaos. I think it would be good for the game if we unglued the needle from the DDR end.

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They'd need to accept that some parse chasers would be unhappy, because them moving the needle slightly for one mechanic(Alarm Pheromones) caused a lot of complaints about lost uptime.