JP: Yoshi P should step down, FF14 is a sinking ship, in response to interview

Why the MSQ quality is much lower in FFXIV (DT) :
Know that [Square Enix] and [Sweet Baby Inc] have joined hands.

I didnt know this prior to buying DT,
but it all makes 100% sense now why there is a drop in quality (MSQ).

I normally avoid games that has [Sweet Baby inc] in it..
because all the games they have touched
has extremely poor writing and
is filled with political propaganda.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astronema

Sweet baby stink and corps had their hands in DT. Such a large drop in quality can only be attributed to a lack of funds and budget or outside pressure and interference.

---

Lmao u people always bringing up sweet baby move on I getting really tireing divinity all around u it not going anywhere

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Willemdarke

I didn't say it's a sinking ship, just that it is bad.

As we can see from the graph, player numbers were steadily increasing throughout ShB's lifespan, reaching their peak with EW's launch. Since then numbers have been in decline, raising slightly during content drops only to dip back down right away.

A healthy game would be growing, like in ShB, not losing all hype immediately after an expansion launch.

---

"Sinking ship" is in the thread title so i used this term. ;)

I also do not think, that the numbers or the DT narrative is good. But the situation is way not so bad as the thread starter suggests. The funny thing is, that Final Fantasy 14 carries the rest of SQEX. So Yoshi-P will propably never step down.



Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

"Sinking ship" is in the thread title so i used this term. ;)

I also do not think, that the numbers or the DT narrative is good. But the situation is way not so bad as the thread starter suggests. The funny thing is, that Final Fantasy 14 carries the rest of SQEX. So Yoshi-P will propably never step down.



Cheers

---

With this I entirely agree, both that Yoshi doesn't need to step down (instead focus more on this game rather than other projects his team is being forced into) and that FF14 is indeed SE's most profitable property.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voidmage

Given SE track record with screw ups I would prefer Yoshida not to step down.

He is probably the last thing holding the most bullshit out of this game.

Besides… what then?

The writing showed that new people don’t automatically make good decisions.

So no he shouldn’t step down but he should finally start to really think about what he wants his game to be because I can’t imagine empty zones, mixed receptions, boring jobs and people more and more being ready to skip cutscenes are what he thinks an MMO should be.

---

Agreed.

He's not perfect and I'm not going to claim or argue that he is.

However, he does seem to be a great advocate for keeping certain elements generally favored by F2P game models away from the game, which is a positive in my view.

As someone who was on this bandwagon for awhile and believed he should step down, I now think he isn't involved enough. During DT's and even EW'2 development Yoshida was busy working on other games and it is obvious he wasn't able to do all his normal things. He even said, like with the EW 24 man raid, that he was letting newer and less experienced ppl do and handle more, and their inexperience, while obvious with the way they crapped on the Twelve, was on full display in DT. I think he needs to get back to micromanaging his team like he did in 1.0, ARR and HW.

On the face of it having your best people working multiple projects makes sense and in the short term it works. The problem is long term, it's better to keep the best people focused on what they're doing best and give them apprentices who can be assigned small projects and later moved to bigger ones as they improve but no modern company seems to understand this basic wisdom. "The speed of technological advancement isn't nearly as important as short term quarterly gains, can't this thing go any faster?" - Quark, ST: DS9.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

No. Because it is normal and happened already in FF14 and it happens in other healthy games too. The ship would be sinking if the numbers would go far under the EW numbers.



Cheers

---

What I always wonder when I read this.
How would a different content approach actually look like in those charts?

For example let’s say we get relics or field content shortly after expansion launch.
Would the line be high or would there be a little drop but less strong than now?
Are most people just playing for the story or do they leave because there isn’t much at the start if you don’t raid.

Not saying it’s a sinking ship just curious how that would look like because I think they could do a little shake up in the formulae.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

However, he does seem to be a great advocate for keeping certain elements generally favored by F2P game models away from the game, which is a positive in my view.

---

like having a cash shop or gacha lootboxes ? oh wait ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fatch38

like having a cash shop or gacha lootboxes ? oh wait ...

---

We have gacha in XIV? And if you think the material containers or the Bozja boxes are gacha, having random rewards from an in-game earnable only item, is not the same thing as paying real world money for lootboxes, like ESO or Genshin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

We have gacha in XIV? And if you think the material containers or the Bozja boxes are gacha, having random rewards from an in-game earnable only item, is not the same thing as paying real world money for lootboxes, like ESO or Genshin.

---

This.

I have a friend who recently fell into the F2P game gamblebox trap and got themselves into a fairly considerable amount of debt spending R/L cash, which they didn't really have, on them.
Whilst I don't want to discuss the complexities of gambling addiction here, I will say I have an extremely low opinion of games with business models which revolve around gambleboxes and I applaud FFXIV for not encouraging them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I would not say, that it is a sinking ship.

https://steamdb.info/app/39210/charts/#1y

https://i.imgur.com/AcXqZy9.png





Cheers

---

this chart just shows the truth of the thread instead of denying it. People came for the expansion, didn't like it or at least for what they paid tried to finish the MSQ, and then left and they continue leaving. Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurumis

this chart just shows the truth of the thread instead of denying it. People came for the expansion, didn't like it or at least for what they paid tried to finish the MSQ, and then left and they continue leaving. Cheers.

---

See, the thing is, every expansion looks like this. Every single one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I would not say, that it is a sinking ship.

https://steamdb.info/app/39210/charts/#1y

https://i.imgur.com/AcXqZy9.png





Cheers

---

As the person 2 posts above me just said, you are literally proving the point the OP is making, the only people actually staying are roleplayers, people that use ffxiv as a social hangout and other things, also venues etc. Very few actually do content in the very long term compared to those categories of players, and the chart actually proves that we are back to normal pre DT numbers already.

One more reason as to why the whole "congestion" thing is an absolute joke.

Considering the timestamps on the replies to that blog post (not to mention the comments themselves), looks like someone with an agenda bombed it with bot replies.

I'm sure you know all about that sort of thing.

Yes, the expansion has had some pretty glaring problems when it comes to the MSQ. It should be pointed out that YoshiP told us earlier that this was the first FFXIV where he wasn't hands on, in depth with reviewing everything before release. Others were given that responsibility for Dawntrail.

I don't think that the expansion is a sign he needs to step down as Producer/Director. I think it's a sign that he needs to go back to doing his personal checks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PassinLay

As the person 2 posts above me just said, you are literally proving the point the OP is making, the only people actually staying are roleplayers, people that use ffxiv as a social hangout and other things, also venues etc. Very few actually do content in the very long term compared to those categories of players, and the chart actually proves that we are back to normal pre DT numbers already.

One more reason as to why the whole "congestion" thing is an absolute joke.

---

Damn, it's almost like every expansion has had that. Go to the site and change it from 1y to max. Every spike is an expansion.
But keep saying the game is dying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Damn, it's almost like every expansion has had that. Go to the site and change it from 1y to max. Every spike is an expansion.
But keep saying the game is dying.

---

I havent said a single time that the game is dying, it is stalling at the exact same numbers though and has for a very long time, it's not growing.

Quick solution to Wuk Lamat

"I am the ruler here so I am going to stay here and help my people recover"

There you go. People acting like they cannot solve the Wuk issue in 1 sentence are just silly.

Same developer gave me Heavensward, Shadowbringer and Endwalker. I am fine giving them a few quest to fix the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Yes, the expansion has had some pretty glaring problems when it comes to the MSQ. It should be pointed out that YoshiP told us earlier that this was the first FFXIV where he wasn't hands on, in depth with reviewing everything before release. Others were given that responsibility for Dawntrail.

I don't think that the expansion is a sign he needs to step down as Producer/Director. I think it's a sign that he needs to go back to doing his personal checks.

---

This. All of this. I do not for a second believe if he had the involvement he had in previous expansions that this expansion would have gone out the door the way it did. If he can't work as directly, he should build up someone who's capable of the same oversight who can.

Also to the OP, they stumbled. i don't think it's a sinking ship just yet. They have opportunity to recover.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But keep saying the game is dying.

---

None of the people replying, the OP included, have said the game is dying or a sinking ship. The title is a reference to comments made by Japanese players with this thread being a discussion of their opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Damn, it's almost like every expansion has had that. Go to the site and change it from 1y to max. Every spike is an expansion.

---

Rubbish. The graph clearly shows that ShB had a steady player population which grew over time. ShB's late patches had more people playing than the launch hype spike. The very end-of-expansion content draught had the same numbers as the launch spike. ShB's numbers absolutely did not tank within the first 2 months. It's first dip was only 4 months in and even then the difference isn't as staggering as we see in EW or DT.

https://i.postimg.cc/fRs5LC16/Screen...830-185410.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PassinLay

As the person 2 posts above me just said, you are literally proving the point the OP is making, the only people actually staying are roleplayers, people that use ffxiv as a social hangout and other things, also venues etc. Very few actually do content in the very long term compared to those categories of players, and the chart actually proves that we are back to normal pre DT numbers already.

One more reason as to why the whole "congestion" thing is an absolute joke.

---

I mean those charts exist for Shadowbringers and Endwalker. It shows similar patterns. People come back for new content then it levels out. It looks identical for most MMO's

Also it helps that Shadowbringers had Shadowlands to compete against and an absolute MASSIVE exodus of WoW players seeking a new game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Willemdarke

None of the people replying, the OP included, have said the game is dying or a sinking ship. The title is a reference to comments made by Japanese players with this thread being a discussion of their opinions.



Rubbish. The graph clearly shows that ShB had a steady player population which grew over time. ShB's late patches had more people playing than the launch hype spike. The very end-of-expansion content draught had the same numbers as the launch spike. ShB's numbers absolutely did not tank within the first 2 months. It's first dip was only 4 months in and even then the difference isn't as staggering as we see in EW or DT.

https://i.postimg.cc/fRs5LC16/Screen...830-185410.png

---

It's almost like there was some kind of... I don't know... Pandemic during that time where more people were either working from home or jobless, that accounted for greater than usual growth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimalsALot

http://blog.livedoor.jp/umadori0726/.../61755714.html


8. I spent the whole game wondering if it was really okay to make her a ruler, and having to choose between bad options was just painful.

---

welcome to reality

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's almost like there was some kind of... I don't know... Pandemic during that time where more people were either working from home or jobless, that accounted for greater than usual growth.

---

It's about retention. Whether growth was influenced by internal factors such as ShB's content or hype for its S-tier story, or external ones such as the pandemic or WoW bleeding out, ShB retained its player numbers.

Shit games have spikes in numbers, sure, and they drop off immediately, not retain a healthy population, or are you implying that the 2020-2021 period didn't have enough games to choose from and people were stuck on FF?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Considering the timestamps on the replies to that blog post (not to mention the comments themselves), looks like someone with an agenda bombed it with bot replies.

---

This is a new one. The SE Defense Force always comes out with the most unhinged conspiracies.

Any active forum is now under suspicion of being botted. Lol k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Quick solution to Wuk Lamat

"I am the ruler here so I am going to stay here and help my people recover"

There you go. People acting like they cannot solve the Wuk issue in 1 sentence are just silly.

Same developer gave me Heavensward, Shadowbringer and Endwalker. I am fine giving them a few quest to fix the issue.

---

They can but wont. Wuk is going to travel with us for all eternity and become an official Scion. She will make her brother do all the ruling while she explores the world as a 'diplomat' for her country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimalsALot

This is a new one. The SE Defense Force always comes out with the most unhinged conspiracies.

Any active forum is now under suspicion of being botted. Lol k.

---

Well, you literally are a bot so... Yeah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurumis

this chart just shows the truth of the thread instead of denying it. People came for the expansion, didn't like it or at least for what they paid tried to finish the MSQ, and then left and they continue leaving. Cheers.

---

Jepp. It is the same like in the previous expansions.



Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Jepp. It is the same like in the previous expansions.



Cheers

---

A game not growing at all is not a good thing. Since when has that become acceptable ?

Crazy how people are trying to defend the game's player count drop when the population is already back down to levels seen when the game had one of the worst content droughts and a terrible post-msq.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the current numbers we have now is the same as the pre-wow exodus numbers which means the game is no longer growing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Considering the timestamps on the replies to that blog post (not to mention the comments themselves), looks like someone with an agenda bombed it with bot replies.

---

Nothing is wrong with the comments timestamp. It’s pretty active blog for discussion, multiple topics per day and the feedback is not surprising at all and been seen on other platforms too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaddes

There's no way they're adding male Mithra to FFXI. They never added additional races the way FFXIV did, and they're basically a step away from maintenance mode from here on out, with only minor updates and a very small team, so I'd highly doubt something major like that would ever be done. And I'm raising an eyebrow on the "fantasia rumor" just because they've always been so damn restrictive about their characters. Hell, they didn't even have a name change option; I remember people had to get hacky and basically pay for a server transfer to a server that already had your character's name to allow/force you to change your own.

---

It isn't a rumor, they announced on Freshly Picked Vana'diel 68 they were looking to making race changes possible in XI. This should take you to the video and timestamp it is discussed. You may need to turn on CC and put in in your proper language.

Here is the video link

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

TitanMen, or skiros, or whoever you call yourself these days, is really worried his source of rmt income will dry up.



No wonder he always makes doom and gloom threads.

---

your titanmen, hes titanmen IM TITANMEN are there anymore titanmens i should know about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

your titanmen, hes titanmen IM TITANMEN are there anymore titanmens i should know about?

---

Deep Voice Meow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

your titanmen, hes titanmen IM TITANMEN are there anymore titanmens i should know about?

---

Dude, he literally is. Not everyone is TitanMen. Obviously. But there is a pattern, and an obvious one when it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Crazy how people are trying to defend the game's player count drop when the population is already back down to levels seen when the game had one of the worst content droughts and a terrible post-msq.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the current numbers we have now is the same as the pre-wow exodus numbers which means the game is no longer growing.

---

The good news, we can correct you there, at least with the only "hard" data we have available in the infamous Steam numbers. The "WoW Exodus" started in July 2021. Just prior to that, FFXIV was seeing an average daily player count of about 21-23k people (this may itself be inflated because there's a noticeable trend of players already starting to move over before it became a *mass* exodus, so a more reliable number might be closer to 17-18k, where it had been holding pretty steadily). The current data from the most recent 30 days is at ~28k. This is *well above* the pre-exodus numbers by anywhere from 20-55% depending on when you start counting the "exodus."

It's also noteworthy to look at player retention, since MMO's inevitably have cycles of ebb and flow with expansions and patches. To wit, DT's retention rate is right on par with every other expansion (DT = 68%; EW = 68%; ShB = 72%; SB = 70%; HW = 65%). And that's not even considering how the current player count is 4x the numbers from the HW and SB days, and 1.5x higher than the equivalent point for ShB (one month after release).

So, yeah, player count's are actually very easy to defend and show the game is simultaneously not experiencing anything out of the ordinary cycles while at the same time having a significantly higher player count than practically any time in the game's history with the exception of the "WoW Exodus" spike (and of course the release month of DT itself, which had the highest pre-sales ever).

this is taken off of JP's version of something like wowhead or MMO Champion, places like those have even more trolls than this place does.

think it's funny when people link steam numbers like more people don't play with the regular client and on ps5/x1 than there are steam players.

hey though keep trying to make that point without all of the information!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Racen

this is taken off of JP's version of something like wowhead or MMO Champion, places like those have even more trolls than this place does.

think it's funny when people link steam numbers like more people don't play with the regular client and on ps5/x1 than there are steam players.

hey though keep trying to make that point without all of the information!

---

Ok, then please provide us the official numbers, or another proper source aside from steam.

I'll be waiting.

Yall keep talking about how steam is a bad source of statistics, but provide absolutely nothing else, it's actually hilarious, so far the only attempt at proving steam wrong is "read youtube comments lmao" which is literally not a source for statistics.

Why do y'all dismiss Steam numbers even though they are 100% a valid source and sampling of the player base? There is intrinsically no difference between those who play on Steam and those on official launcher, so there is no reason to think that they are a biased sample.

You don't have to see every single player who is playing the game to see a trend. That's not how statistics work.

Yoshi-P will not come down and kiss you on the lips for defending his honor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Why do y'all dismiss Steam numbers even though they are 100% a valid source and sampling of the player base? There is intrinsically no difference between those who play on Steam and those on official launcher, so there is no reason to think that they are a biased sample.

You don't have to see every single player who is playing the game to see a trend. That's not how statistics work.

Yoshi-P will not come down and kiss you on the lips for defending his honor.

---

my totally official loyalty card says otherwise
I just need a few more stamps