Please, dont bring Bojza back!

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Originally Posted by TsubameMikage

By that logic, you never need to upgrade your gear at all once you end the expansion, since those aren't required either - right?

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Playing FF14 is an optional activity. You're not required by law to play it and you can save yourself money by not playing.
There are plenty of players that just play through the main story and unsub.

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Originally Posted by TsubameMikage

By that logic, you never need to upgrade your gear at all once you end the expansion, since those aren't required either - right?

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You don't, do you?
All you have to do to continue the main game is to meet the item level for dungeons/trials. Which you will never need to do a relic for.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Relics arent required content

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They aren't but relics were content before they were gated behind Field Operations, not wanting the content you like to be gated behind content you don't like is a normal response.

I like eureka, i hated Bozja and its the only relic ive never finished. But for the future i want them to make the relic zones a normal zone you can enter any time - just have 3-6 instances running, or however many you need. I want it to be a normal zone, where i can leave for retainers and return, que for stuff or just craft on the downtime...

HELL YEAH ! NEW BOZJA Buckle up boys it's time for a good old war

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They aren't but relics were content before they were gated behind Field Operations, not wanting the content you like to be gated behind content you don't like is a normal response.

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Even in ARR and HW content you had to do content you might not have liked. Intense fate grinding with low drop %, light farming through spamming raids and dungeons, hunting overworld mobs, hunting specific fates, grinding levequests, grinding out beast tribes, etc.

So using ARR and HW as examples against Field Operations is a rather poor arguement. They were just as much effort (if not more of a chore) as the SB and ShB relics.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

In a french interview Yoshi-P states that he planned to add exploration zones like Bozja/Eureka.

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Please... dont. I hate Eureka and Bozja. Nothing in there worked. The whole concept of Bozja/Eureka is horrible. People just played it because of the relic weapons. But it was not fun. You can do nothing except waiting or following the FATE-train.

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Sounds like someone just wants to run level 100 dungeons for 80 times to get a new Manderville weapon and then complain about the new content being too hard. Choose a side dammit. Would you rather do Optional content for a Weapon or just make new content more "Difficult, boringggg too much grind wah wah wah can't do it pls nerf it

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Even in ARR and HW content you had to do content you might not have liked. Intense fate grinding with low drop %, light farming through spamming raids and dungeons, hunting overworld mobs, hunting specific fates, grinding levequests, grinding out beast tribes, etc.

So using ARR and HW as examples against Field Operations is a rather poor arguement. They were just as much effort (if not more of a chore) as the SB and ShB relics.

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It's not a poor argument, it was the content, the content was not Eureka or Bozja. The content was separate from field operations and something people liked.
I fail to see how you think this is an actual gotcha unless you're being incredibly disingenuous. The relics were content before field operations and were pulled into them. The people who liked the old style of relics don't necessarily have to like the new method when it's an entirely different form of content.

On patch ARR/HW relics are far more of an evil grind than anything Eureka/Bozja imposed to the players lol.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

Eureka is hands-down the best thing that was ever added to this game, and I struggle to see them improving on it.

It's content where you are reliant on other people. You make friends actually doing things, there's mysteries and tricks and secrets, and once it's all uncovered there are still things to do. God I fucking love Eureka. The entire open world should be like Eureka.

Bozja was a direct downgrade, but that's to be expected given what Shadowbringers was.

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This a Thousand times over!

Eureka was the only FF14 content that actually made me WANT to be doing 3-4 am fates, grinds, and runs because of the fun I was having with it. The crazy groups you got in! The wacky people you met while grinding! The community and comradery! To this day, I STILL remember some of the people I met in Eureka when it was new, they left THAT much of an impression. It was a WONDERFUL feeling and something that is sooooo missing in normal FF14 gameplay.

If Dawntrail's exploratory content can capture a small part of that, I will be thrilled.

From my view: Ill appreciate to farm stupidly dungeons for my daily agenda instead of get forced into a instanced areal, with must have fate trains and follow it stupidly from Point A to B.


Neither of those 2 variants are really fun but the dungeon is something that you can combine with daily business. Square already proved it that you can get a Relic Weapon very well without Eureka and Bozja. See ARR and Heavensward.

I liked Bozja, didn’t like Eureka, I don’t mind grinding stuff, weekly/daily grind is fine for me imo. But I’d honestly prefer relic stuff not tied to Eureka/Bozja content. Or just have more alternate routes to fully do the weapon without it. So you can do one or the other or both. I think Bozja did a little bit of that? But I did it at launch and with all the group content so IDK the extent of the split/alternate grind.

Manderville relic was fine until it got tied to poetics, but if you want all the weapons that’s the easiest one.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They aren't but relics were content before they were gated behind Field Operations, not wanting the content you like to be gated behind content you don't like is a normal response.

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Sure, but it's also kinda immature to want to deny others optional content and rewards because you may not like the optional content.

I hate doing treasure maps, yet I don't go to forums requesting no further additions to maps. I just let the people who do enjoy maps and the rewards be while I do something else.

They are ok. But square needs to make improvements to their fate system. Make it more dynamic like in GW2

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Originally Posted by Wissp

Eureka was the only FF14 content that actually made me WANT to be doing 3-4 am fates, grinds, and runs because of the fun I was having with it. The crazy groups you got in! The wacky people you met while grinding! The community and comradery! To this day, I STILL remember some of the people I met in Eureka when it was new, they left THAT much of an impression. It was a WONDERFUL feeling and something that is sooooo missing in normal FF14 gameplay.

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Legitimately, the only friends I still have in FFXIV are the people I met in Eureka in Stormblood.

And most of the people who've blacklisted me are people I've met in Eureka in Endwalker!

It's such a wonderful, free, social experience.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

I liked Bozja, didn’t like Eureka, I don’t mind grinding stuff, weekly/daily grind is fine for me imo. But I’d honestly prefer relic stuff not tied to Eureka/Bozja content. Or just have more alternate routes to fully do the weapon without it. So you can do one or the other or both. I think Bozja did a little bit of that? But I did it at launch and with all the group content so IDK the extent of the split/alternate grind.

Manderville relic was fine until it got tied to poetics, but if you want all the weapons that’s the easiest one.

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The thing I think people forget about the Manderville grind is it's very similar to the HW grind, they just consolidated all the items like sand into just one purchase. That tome grind is still 90% poetics dumping to buy items.
I think people misunderstand what people say, it's not that you CAN do it in the FO zone, it's that you MUST do it in the FO zone and must progress that zone to unlock the next steps. Also as mentioned the Timeworn step in Shadowbringers where the Bozja version of the step is way easier than outside by a massive margin. I did it entirely in POTD solo and it was weeks before I got enough RNG drops for it compared to a guaranteed drop in Bozja.
Were they to make it so that you could entirely progress inside or outside the zone and it was comparable in completion time and effort then I think people wouldn't be upset about it. However I think some FO players would be upset that less people would play their zones due to not being forced to enter the zone for the rewards.

Bozja and Eureka are the best content this game ever had and it's criminal that EW didn't have any. I'm unsubscribed and if I don't see Eureka3 by next year I'm not coming back.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

However I think some FO players would be upset that less people would play their zones due to not being forced to enter the zone for the rewards.

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Literally no one cares, this is how Bozja works.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

Literally no one cares, this is how Bozja works.

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It is not how Bozja works, you need to complete the entire story to unlock the full relic steps. Someone who never sets foot in Bozja will at best get 2-3 steps and then will be unable to progress it until they unlock and complete Delibrum.

Bozja owned.

Didn't care about relics, only got a few because I got sick of farming extremes for weapons mid StB when they made those fights easier and yet more tedious with long, boring transitions.

But Bozja's strength is its content. Tougher than normal raids generally and the lost action systems allowed you to approach it in ways that FFXIV in general doesn't let you do stuff. It's an environment where it was fun and OK to break things. So, a little bit of an RPG in my MMORPG. And raid trash encounters that challenged us to have a need for 24 people other than 'boss has enough health for 24 people'.

Like all content, once you do it there's less reason to return, but damn it it wasn't fun, even if purely you didn't know exactly what was coming down the pipeline next like with the normal, extreme, alliance and savage patch content.

Is that true? I don't think they're linked to the story quests. You can just get the timeworn whatevers from PotD.

I loved both of them and hope we have more zones like it.

Everything you said in the original post is opinion, but stated as if it were a fact. That doesn't just make it true.
Both functioned well for their designed purpose, and plenty of people enjoyed them.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

Is that true? I don't think they're linked to the story quests. You can just get the timeworn whatevers from PotD.

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The steps are locked behind the Bozja storyline yes, you need to beat Castrum and Delibrum or you cannot progress past the first glowing weapon.

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Originally Posted by TsubameMikage

Except this is not true - Eurkea was the only way to get your relic weapon in SB, and you had to progress through Bozja for the same in ShB. So, yes, you were forced.

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Nobody is forced to get relics. Take responsibility for what you choose to do in a game.

I loved Eureka. Almost wish there was a way to reset progress or at least let it level your job like Bozja does.

Bozja is the undisputed king of the “alliance raids put me to sleep but I don’t feel like actually committing time right now to extreme and up” content

I don’t think people really give Bozja enough credit for just how many high quality fights there are in it
-40 CE’s
-3 raids each with 4 bosses
-DRS

There is just so many alliance raid/normal raid quality bosses in Bozja and it is a perfect niche for that content I mentioned above

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's not a poor argument, it was the content, the content was not Eureka or Bozja. The content was separate from field operations and something people liked.
I fail to see how you think this is an actual gotcha unless you're being incredibly disingenuous. The relics were content before field operations and were pulled into them. The people who liked the old style of relics don't necessarily have to like the new method when it's an entirely different form of content.

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I don’t think it’s a gotcha? Just pointing out that ARR and HW were just as tedious and unlikable and had just as many weird grinds.

And as for fans of ARR and HW relic content. A lot of the old relic dna is baked into the blueprint for Eureka and Bozja.

We already knew field content was coming. If they can make it something besides endless FATE farms and make sure it's evergreen in some manner (some sort of connected roulette or changing rewards would probably work) then it should be a better experience.

And yeah, don't gate relics behind it. Let the content succeed or fail on its own merits.

Lmao modern ARR & HW relic grind =/= on patch ARR & HW relic grind.

Now I can run Eureka and Bozja to get tomes for EW relics! Oh maybe the new one will drop tomes too! That's like double the relics! This is exciting times for a relic hunter.

Dear Square Enix, please bring Bozja back. Please give me future excuses to not interact with a stupid annoying cat you forced upon the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

Is that true? I don't think they're linked to the story quests. You can just get the timeworn whatevers from PotD.

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They are linked to the story quests up to DR. You can finish a relic without Dalriada but you are required to do CLL and DR.

Trying to get CLL right now is especially bad because everyone just wants to level their vipers and pictomancers and people are ignoring CLL when it pops, at least on Aether.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Lmao modern ARR & HW relic grind =/= on patch ARR & HW relic grind.

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ARR atma grinding was truly the gold standard for relic-related content.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

In a french interview Yoshi-P states that he planned to add exploration zones like Bozja/Eureka.

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Please... dont. I hate Eureka and Bozja. Nothing in there worked. The whole concept of Bozja/Eureka is horrible. People just played it because of the relic weapons. But it was not fun. You can do nothing except waiting or following the FATE-train.

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Cool story.

I like Bozja. And Eureka.

You can simply not do the content. If you don't do high level content, you don't even need the relics.

Not everything in this MMORPG with millions of players has to be curated for YOU and YOU alone.

It's not exactly news. This content was announced literally ages ago. I can even tell you the name of it - Shade's Triangle, which is a segment of ocean found on the map of Tural.

But I can compromise with you - they don't have to make it like Bozja. They could make it like Eureka instead, which I truly enjoyed.

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

The fact that these zones die the instant the new expac comes out tells you everything you need to know about how "fun" they are.

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Eureka is almost always busy though?

Enjoyment detected! Fun Police en route to deliver moralising sermon. Stay indoors citizens.

You can just choose not to do this content.

I love both Eureka and Bozja. I've met cool people in Eureka and consider Bozja a really great midcore piece of content to step above the normal fights and into more mechanically intensive fights without being overly punishing to your party.

I really liked Bozja during Shadowbringers. The critical engagements were kind of challenging at the time, and people would be talking in shout chat, requesting raises, or coordinating for Castrum/Zalriada. It was a place where you could really show off the mounts you liked and it was teeming with activity. Eureka was also a lot of fun with people working together to spawn NM's, and there's not really anything else like it in XIV. Never wanting any more Field Operation content is really weird when it's something plenty of people really enjoy doing.

I do think that a few of the Bozja steps were a bit too grindy, that being said. I think some element of a grind separate from just tomes is important for relics, but sending players off to farm Alliance Raids and old FATEs was not very fun. Eureka was also grindy but I didn't mind it nearly as much.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The thing I think people forget about the Manderville grind is it's very similar to the HW grind, they just consolidated all the items like sand into just one purchase. That tome grind is still 90% poetics dumping to buy items.

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Did you do the HW relics before they were nerfed? Because this is absolutely false.

The HW grind back in the day had little to do with poetics. It used the current restricted tomestones. So you were gated by how much you could grind with those. Not to mention the multiple steps that did not use tomestones back then.

Just to list the steps:
-Animated: either grind fates for multiple crystal drops from each of the HW zones. Or turn in a Zeta weapon.
-Awoken: take your new weapon and do a gauntlet of 10 individual dungeons.
-Anima (aka Unidentifiable): grind out unidentifiables which costed gated tomestones at the time, beast tribe currency if you had them leveled, random raid drops, and other tedious methods. And you had to gather multiple crafts that were required to be high quality at the time, either through crafting with specialization, or paying a large sum.
-Hyperconductive: buy Aether Oil for current tomestones at the time.
-Reconditioned: Umbrite/Crystal Sand. You got them by various methods, current tomestones, through battle levequests, and through crafters/gatherers.
-Sharpened: daily quest that had you go through roulettes (currently can’t remember if you could use current tomestones back then)
-Complete: 3 dungeons then a hefty light farm then pneumite from GC seals, treasure maps, or tomestones.
-Lux: a victory lap through all of the hard mode and equivalent trials with a tomestone purchase after.

I love the tough endgame grind zones. They're the only aspect of the game that provides a sense of progression due to the long grind and a sense of community as you have to group up with other people to fight the mobs and you get acquainted with the regulars. It keeps me playing after I finish the visual novel story. I was pretty disappointed that Bozja only got two zones, and Endwalker had none so I didn't play FF14 as much. Only thing I really did during the EW patches was play more Eureka.

I overall preferred Eureka due to it having four zones, the wilderness feel, and the Magia Board. The second zone with the sleeping dragons you have to walk past, and having to drop down steep cliffs to land onto narrow ledges was cool, wish they did more like that. I also liked the light character customization from the 3rd zone onwards where you could turn your Samurai into a tank, wish FF14 had more build customization. I did not like Bozja as much. Again only two zones, visually ugly, and I felt the mobs were easier than in Eureka. I did like the Critical Engagements, though, which prevent people from running away to heal to full or prevents people from graveyard zerging the fight. Wish CEs were the standard. Castrum and Dalriada were also nice, but they're script corridor raids which I prefer only to do once. I did like the two somewhat WoW-esque encounters with the final fight of Castrum where a B-team has to detach from the main group to go fight Lyon, and the penultimate fight of Dalriada where you fight two bosses at once. No idea why FF14 doesn't do more of those. It was pretty disappointing that Matsuno's storyline was cancelled. Was looking to part 3 with going to the IVth Legion's capital of Lea Monde and fighting against Gabranth.