Reintroduce Maat in 2.0

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Had to laugh at this:

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I am sorry but my post didn't even slightly come across as that.. you need to learn how to troll better poor ole chap, and maybe stay on topic, your post was as relevant as shit on flies dude.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

your post was as relevant as shit on flies dude.

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What is this I don't even

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

What is this I don't even

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exactly my point..

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It was a sign of skill. If you sucked at your job you will not beat Maat. The only exceptions would be THF which is purely luck based and WHM due to SE forgetting about Repose being low level rather than high.

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Let's get this straight; Al is right. Beating Maat isn't a sign of skill. Beating Maat means you got over the speedbump in order to progress to level cap. And as far as I know, the only jobs that need 'skill' to beat Maat might be WHM, BLM, and RDM.
Maat was nothing more than an obstacle in your way towards grinding to cap and it meant going out of your way to farm a testimony for days, THEN probably borrowing millions of gil to buy pots, scrolls, and anything else that might help you beat him. And easily enough, it was a simple task for anyone with a decently-geared DD job to run him the hell over.

I beat Maat on my SAM, as SAM was my first 75 job. What happened?
Meditate to full. Eat a mithkabob. Enter.
Hit Meikyo Shisui, and kill him with WS before even completing a skillchain.
Is that a test of skill? No, it was a waste of several days of farming and preparation, and a waste of gil.

Just because FFXIV is going to pull from other FF titles as inspiration doesn't mean that people will be able to suggest ANYTHING be put into it from any other title. We should be pulling the best aspects of FFXI, if any at all - especially in terms of actual content, and things like armor or weapon upgrades. Maat doesn't count.

You can sugarcoat it all you like, Elexia, but you're probably the only one willing to say Maat was 'fun.'
He was nothing more than a timesink, and a gilsink. Oh, you didn't beat Maat? Time to recruit your level 75 friends to go farm more items and a testimony for 3 more days! /cheer

Don't get me wrong; I'm not against level cap quests entirely. But it should be fun things, like going to kill an NM or do a small quest that actually matters. Maat doesn't count.

tl;dr Maat was stupid, and OP's reasoning is laughable

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Originally Posted by Yucie

Let's get this straight; Al is right. Beating Maat isn't a sign of skill.

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That's subjective. For me (BLM) it was. :D

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

That's subjective. For me (BLM) it was. :D

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Even more skill to beat him with RDM (pre-CoP as I said)

I had friends who fought him as BRD, PLD, and SAM... none of them ever thought it was much of a fight. So it's really a matter of perspective.

Also, SE really should have better balanced those battles out.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

That's subjective. For me (BLM) it was. :D

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THF was my first 75. No skill required. ^_^ b

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

This is not FF11

we DO NOT need Maat

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We don't NEED anything.
How about that?! Throw away the stupid game right now! WHO NEEDS ANYTHING AT ALL?!

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Originally Posted by Vingtdeux

They should find something else than Maat, it can be original.

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Why? Why can we not have Maat, but the Crystal Tower, Magitek, and Materia are all A-OK? Why is any reference to the other Final Fantasy so damn toxic?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

and OP: What the hell business is it of yours if casuals reach a certain level or not? WTF is with the hate? It's not like you have to play with them.

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Being at a certain level implies you have certain knowledge on how to play a job/class. However, because you can just easily solo to it now you can just rely on a few techniques that you might not fully understand. Having a character to 'test' how you play before you can move on is a good thing.

This is a team based game. Being able to learn how to play a job and contribute well to a party is necessary to take part in it. You can easily say: "well I'm paying for it with my money, I should be able to play however I want" and that's fine and dandy, but if you're just diking around and half-assing it, you're taking enjoyment away from others in your team who really want to do a good job. You have to take others into account and learn how to be a part of a team in these kind of games.

You don't need to 'rush' to the final level to experience and enjoy a game, especially if you're not getting experience with your jobs proper game mechanics.

I don't want to fight Maat again in XIV. I saw enough of him in XI.

I'd much rather have something new.

I thought I read somewhere on the JP forums that in 2.0 you will have to beat Ifrit Extreme to get over the lvl 50 cap.

Edited: To add ;-)

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Anyone else think Maat should make a comeback for 2.0?
Leveling is too easy in this game, and we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50.
A Maat type fight would be a perfect road block for this game and it would teach you how to play your class.

Good idea/bad idea?

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As a player from FFXI, I have to say that I liked Maat. Contrary to what some people think- not anyone in specific I just see this being thrown about as the excuse du jour.

Ya know, just because some of us have played FFXI doesn't mean we want this game to play itself. =_=;;

Furthermore, I don't think it's very fair to say to "stop casuals from facerolling their way to lv50" - I swear, this game uses the word "casual" the way a certain political party uses the word "socialist". Being a casual player is not a bad thing. That's like saying that only "hardcore" players are good players.

That's an outright lie if I ever saw one. What dictates if a player is good or bad is if they have the determination to play their job well and be a contributing member of the game. Are they respectful of other players or are they douche bags?

The list is virtually endless.

However, a good player is not measured by the amount of hours one pours into a game.

I'll be honest with you Neomarl. As a casual player I'm all for challenges. Having a version of Maat in FFXIV would be fun if for nothing else than to see how good you play in such a situation. For me, Maat was never about getting past level 70. It was about proving myself.

For others, it was a wake up call that they need better gear and the like.

And that's fine, really. I welcome it.

But please don't make this into something that will kill the casuals because quite frankly, there are a lot more casuals than hardcore players. If this game wants to succeed it needs to be casual friendly- not cater singularly to casual players mind you, but friendly. That is not to say that the game has no place for hardcore players. That is far from the truth. It needs both, if you ask me.

It would be nice if he was a fighter in a coliseum.

I loved XIII-2's coliseum side quest, bringing in a bunch of cool nostalgia characters to fight (Gilgamesh/Ultros/Typhon), I would love it if FFXIV had one of it's own, I would call it Void Coliseum. Maat would be an awesome one versus one coliseum match and he used classic FFXI skills against you.

Wasn't the first Limit Break at lvl 65? So even if he was implimented (assuming exactly the same), people would still be getting to 50 without stops.

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

Wasn't the first Limit Break at lvl 65? So even if he was implimented (assuming exactly the same), people would still be getting to 50 without stops.

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First was at 50 took me 3 weeks to get paper.... Get a group of ppl to farm paper 2 drops 2 ppl leave -.- start again next day. XI lvl cap quest was just a speed bump at most like Al said.

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

Wasn't the first Limit Break at lvl 65? So even if he was implimented (assuming exactly the same), people would still be getting to 50 without stops.

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Caps were 50 > 55 > 60 > 65 > 70 > 75 > 80 > 85 > 90 > 95. Only 70 and 95 cap breaks had a challenging fight. Considering SE cares more for the future of the game, while the little playerbase that's playing now won't be largely affected by it unless they make new characters, the newer players (if at all ) would be the ones that have to go through the fight for example.

iirc 65 was level cap just before NA release.

Yeah thats right. I think I recalled lvl 65 because that was the Limit Break where I was already getting pissed at limit breaks. Finding high levels to help me with all that crap was pretty frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Anyone else think Maat should make a comeback for 2.0?
Leveling is too easy in this game, and we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50.
A Maat type fight would be a perfect road block for this game and it would teach you how to play your class.

Good idea/bad idea?

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If you're trying to introduce a pointless cockblock to boost your own ego over the n00bz that have difficulty with the fight, at least introduce meaningful lore characters instead of the copout Maat was. I never liked him, and my ire for him grew when I found out he practically sold his soul for the kind of "power" he had (sure, he signed a contract that is a reference to a magical girl show, but still).

I'm opposed to the idea overall, because being at the level cap, limit breaks or no, doesn't instantly make you capable and knowledgeable in your class/job.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

This is not FF11

we DO NOT need Maat

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I agree, what we need is more hotness such as Prishe 2.0

Maybe for the first level cap mission, we can fight our corresponding Grand Company leader in the new Coliseum to prove our might? ;xx

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Originally Posted by Mudd

Maybe for the first level cap mission, we can fight our corresponding Grand Company leader in the new Coliseum to prove our might? ;xx

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Nah, since this Raubahn is a pussy versus his FFXI counterpart.

..Yes that's right people Raubahn was in FFXI too. I don't know if I could take him seriously if he's not trying to devour my soul at every turn while making it sound absolutely kinky.

Honestly, I don't want to see Maat in the game. Second of all I tried fighting him after rdm got severly screwed over. And it wasn't because I wasn't a skilled player I lacked the right type of gear needed in the game like int and all that even though all my skills where capped so the gear I had wasn't great. I tried fighting him twice got beat twice. It's kind of hard to do the fight with the bind sleep nuke when bind didn't stick and so on and so forth.

(I did the best I can to try to beat him those two times and before I quit the game, I was doing everything I could to get the gear I needed to help boost my int. Hard to do with not enough money LOL)

I don't want Maat, but I'd love more 1 on 1 fights like Maat or like the solo ENM that was in Movalpolis. Maat himself can stay in FFXI.

since this has been brought up. I personally don't think we should have the limit break quests with level increases in the game. I think Limit Break should be the Merit system for this game. If a level break quest is put in, I think it should be tied into Grand Company ranks.

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we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50

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I can't stand bad players as much as the next guy but why do we NEED to stop them? Laughable attitude

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Also i would like to point out

you CAN NOT reintroduce something that was never implemented to begin with

therefore your thread title is full of tons of holes in itself

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Can't tell if trolling, but despite how semantically incorrect the OP is, you(and most everyone who played XI) know what he means >_>

I already made this thread ;p

o.O how does casual equate to being a bad player and what do you mean by facerolling their way to 50?

Limit break quests should be introduced into XIV (starting at 50, though). Maat or no Maat.

People who want quest-based leveling should be the most supportive of this idea to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Limit break quests should be introduced into XIV (starting at 50, though). Maat or no Maat.

People who want quest-based leveling should be the most supportive of this idea to begin with.

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Quests for leveling and purposeful cockblocks are two very different things. The latter is not much different than attunement quests...well, except there's no logical backing to limit breaks other than giving you something to do for the sake of stopping your progression.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Quests for leveling and purposeful cockblocks are two very different things. The latter is not much different than attunement quests...well, except there's no logical backing to limit breaks other than giving you something to do for the sake of stopping your progression.

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That's your opinion.

Limit breaks can be implemented just as logical as any other type of quest, and even if they're not, they're still just as legitimate.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

That's your opinion.

Limit breaks can be implemented just as logical as any other type of quest, and even if they're not, they're still just as legitimate.

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It's only legitimate if you can mostly solo the LB. In FFXI, there was NONE of the that.
Solo parchment/bombs/etc? LOLNO
Solo Boreals? LOLNO

Can't remember what else you needed, but it's pretty damn pointless (other than for the sake of halting progression) to add in quests that expand your level cap if you need a party of high-levels to help you get through them all, like you did in XI.

Quests to expand your level cap that are nothing but roadblocks in the way of someone having fun are a pointless addition to the game.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

It's only legitimate if you can mostly solo the LB. In FFXI, there was NONE of the that.
Solo parchment/bombs/etc? LOLNO
Solo Boreals? LOLNO

Can't remember what else you needed, but it's pretty damn pointless (other than for the sake of halting progression) to add in quests that expand your level cap if you need a party of high-levels to help you get through them all, like you did in XI.

Quests to expand your level cap that are nothing but roadblocks in the way of someone having fun are a pointless addition to the game.

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So cap-based quests are only legitimate if they can be solo? Odd, that. I don't think you have a clue what you're saying, which is basically whatever you disagree with must hereby be illegitimate.

I tell you what: get rid of repeatable quests in quest-based leveling (as what's in SWTOR, WoW, Aion, CoX, CO, STO, etc. - well something that's in nearly every modern-day MMO with quest-based leveling), then I'll be up for solo-friendly limit break quests.

Personally I think that the last quest in each jobs storyline should have been a solo fight akin to Maat.

Maybe not as difficult, but fight to test your current skill as you job, if you win, you receive a powerful piece of armor, and your "Limit Break" (aka 15 min cooldown ability).

The stories are already circled around you, the player, anyway. I could never understand why you had to bring seven other people along. It also could serve as a better way to introduce a player to endgame, in my opinion the AF fights are your first example of a harder fight.

Just thought I'd throw that out there

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Originally Posted by Dragon

So cap-based quests are only legitimate if they can be solo? Odd, that. I don't think you have a clue what you're saying, which is basically whatever you disagree with must hereby be illegitimate.

I tell you what: get rid of repeatable quests in quest-based leveling (as what's in SWTOR, WoW, Aion, CoX, CO, STO, etc. - well something that's in nearly every modern-day MMO with quest-based leveling), then I'll be up for solo-friendly limit break quests.

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Your logic is silly and twisted. "lol get rid of something normal so we can add something dumb"

While I know that's sarcastic, I can hardly take you seriously. Normal questing isn't simply a hump that prevents the progression any normal player would desire - in fact, it GIVES you experience and it helps you level.

Limit breaks aren't beneficial nor are they necessary. What other modern-day MMO besides XI has 'limit breaks' that serve as roadblocks to your progression? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

While some people thought XI's cap-based quests were good, as did I back in the day (when I was a child, with no real understanding of things) I no longer see them as legitimate.
Why should anyone have to stop to farm parchments, bomb pieces, or other items with such abysmal droprates that it could take many hours of farming per day, for multiple days before you get what you need? Not only that, but who wants to see their party disband before everyone got their required drops? (That happened to me plenty back in the day).
Why should any lowbie have to stop and spend hours and hours shouting for help from the other high-levels, rather than just keep leveling like he wants to?
Why should anyone have to spend a ton of gil, likely going broke (yes, again, back in the day) to prepare for some incredibly unbalanced fight where you'll either win in 5 seconds or lose in 5 seconds? Maat had no balance. If you were a mage job, he trounced you. If you were a DD job, you destroyed him.

If these are the cap-based quests that you're advocating for, then I'll have to decline with a huge {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}

Cap-based quests are not only something of a decade-old ideology, but they're not necessary to the success of any modern MMO.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I tell you what: get rid of repeatable quests in quest-based leveling (as what's in SWTOR, WoW, Aion, CoX, CO, STO, etc. - well something that's in nearly every modern-day MMO with quest-based leveling), then I'll be up for solo-friendly limit break quests.

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This is a false proposition. Most quests in WoW and CoH are pretty much one-shot. The repeatables fall under the "daily" category, and are there to give you stuff to do once you reach the level cap and to give you a source of income. Especially in WoW, as any exp reward is instantly turned to money if you complete the quest while at the level cap.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Can't tell if trolling, but despite how semantically incorrect the OP is, you(and most everyone who played XI) know what he means >_>

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i just had to point it out, thats all, wasnt trolling lol

you may as well say "please reintroduce the black temple" with how accurate it is :D



anyways, maat SUCKED as content, really SUCKED bad, it had nothing to do with difficulty or anything else

it was PURE RNG, and scirpted fighting, you did it a certain way, if you were lucky and he didnt resist anything, you won, if you were even slightly off or he resisted, you lost

thats not the kinda fight we need

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Limit break quests should be introduced into XIV (starting at 50, though). Maat or no Maat.

People who want quest-based leveling should be the most supportive of this idea to begin with.

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I honestly think the way they did for jobs is better than a simple limit break quest.

You can level normally without restrictions, and you will learn all classes abilities. However, to earn the more unique and stronger job abilities, you need a quest every five levels.

It's simple, it tells interestring storylines, it involves traveling, exploration, dungeons runs and a somewhat hard battle at the end.

Yeah, it's not a lolcasualroadblock, but do we really need to arbitrarily set up blocks to "stop people from being bad"? Sorry, but beating one battle after reading how to do it on some wiki <> learning how to play your job.

The current job quests concept already beats complete level locking via time / gil / lucksink quest, in my opnion. That said, they could improve upon it after they increase level cap - and who knows, they might as well include a 1 on 1 battle against Taam or whatever as one of the job quests.

The Ironheart siblings that correspond to the Dugneon and Exploration achievements reference Gwynham Ironheart, the cartographer who drew the maps in Vana'diel. This game has already referenced XI, but as long as they keep it small like that I don't think people should be getting too annoyed. The Final Fantasy series as a whole is self-referential, so it makes sense that there are FFXI crossovers.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Anyone else think Maat should make a comeback for 2.0?
Leveling is too easy in this game, and we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50.
A Maat type fight would be a perfect road block for this game and it would teach you how to play your class.

Good idea/bad idea?

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Bad idea.

First and foremost, it is in direct conflict with Yoshida's idea of a positive experience to cap.

Second, this idea was conceived as a negative - you want to stop something positive. Worse, you want to stop a group of players whom you seperate yourself from. Which means you're out to punish people, plain and simple.

If I told you that I needed to beat you violently with a bullwip because I thought it was too easy for you to get to work in the morning, would you think it was a good idea?

Third, this isn't a location refrence, like Crystal Tower, or a concept Refrence like Magitek, this is straight yanking a character from one game, and transposing it into another. Maat is not a Final Fantasy Icon like Biggs, Wedge, Cid and Gilgamesh. He is a masochistic favorite of a small group of Final Fantasy fans who amour themselves to the sole other FF MMO.

As I stated before, the level cap quests should be relevant to the class your leveling, not one grumpy old fisherman. If there must be a rite of passage, I'd rather Kain Highwind himself come down and hand me my arse.

Besides, Maat challenged you at 70, not 50. If we follow precedent, we're still another year off at least before we start worrying about mirror matches. (Besides, didn't we already get a party-wide version of that in the AF body quest for each job, or did I just imagine Curious George and Einstein Wyrmblood?)

This just sounds like a slight against a player camp you disagree with. What is so vastly harming to you personally that other people can chose to level quickly if they so wish to? As far as you know, nothing is preventing you from taking your time and going slow.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

This is not FF11

we DO NOT need Maat

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But Materia, an evil Empire that uses advanced technology, gunblades, possibly Vera, and a rehash of the crystal tower are all ok to add? Splittin some serious hairs there Ved :p

Op, appearntly its ok to add things from every single OTHER FF EXCEPT XI. Your mistake.