Is anyone else hoping SMN keeps Resurrection?

If we lose it then I hope they have a version of it in phoenix. I hope they dont take it away. I have saved alot of runs on SMN with that resurrection.

It's currently the only funny thing about smn. It's the only thing that makes me react and think.
The smn is dead and buried, removing the ress is like pissing on its grave

If having resurrection comes at the cost of a lot of damage than yes, I would like them to remove it.

This isn’t a new idea of mine, or just in general, but no other role has this kind of divide in balance.

Many groups want people to play red mage or summoner over black mage because of rez. There are players who play summoner specifically for progression, and then switch to BLM, because it’s what they prefer.

It would be like if Reaper and Ninja dealt significantly lower rDPS, but came with some powerful utility that could help get further into a fight. They would likely be pressured into playing one of those jobs even if they preferred MNK or SAM.

I would rather they either remove it or limit in some way and give them more damage.

Maybe SMN gets access to 1 Rez per fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

They don't, though. Canonically, HP = 0 means you're knocked out and very unconscious, not that you're actually dead.

And raising the actual dead is simply necromancy.

---

but why is the skill that revives them then called resurrection, if they're just knocked out?
you don't resurrect ppl that are just knocked out, you help those ppl up like in Xenoblade1^^
but necromancy is an interesting point, since we already encountered one.

Imagine SMN's damage without a raise, it's a scary thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Imagine SMN's damage without a raise, it's a scary thought.

---

Now that that's in my head I demand SMN keep it

IMO, it needs to be an all or nothing for raises. Either all casters have them or they don't.

Personally, I'd prefer all casters to have a raise because it would actually create an identity for the role compared to the other two. That being said, DPS roles are so pointless right now with what they can do comparatively to others that if all casters got a unique raise, then we really need to be giving Phys Range and Melee equivalent, meaningful role actions.

In a perfect world, all three roles would have a unique role action and completely balanced damage, which gives you the chance to chose your 4th DPS based on which role action you felt was most helpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Imagine SMN's damage without a raise, it's a scary thought.

---

But first, they need to fix the brain-dead rotation by reverting back to the pet management

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3

IMO, it needs to be an all or nothing for raises. Either all casters have them or they don't.

Personally, I'd prefer all casters to have a raise because it would actually create an identity for the role compared to the other two. That being said, DPS roles are so pointless right now with what they can do comparatively to others that if all casters got a unique raise, then we really need to be giving Phys Range and Melee equivalent, meaningful role actions.

In a perfect world, all three roles would have a unique role action and completely balanced damage, which gives you the chance to chose your 4th DPS based on which role action you felt was most helpful.

---

I don't especially think that raise is that relevant for challenging content but it's really context dependent I guess: if you're world first progging, sure, it allows you to see more of a fight and have your tacticians behind trying to figure out things while you continue progging; if you're playing in savage as a regular group, who cares really, everything is a body check and at best can come in handy when both your healers are somehow dead but not the rest of the party, which can happen I guess... ; imo it's amusingly the most helpful for casual content actually due to the absence of body checks.

But I do agree with your point, roles need more identity. Problem is, this would imply SE to actually introduce brand new facets of battle system to the game, which you'll excuse me if I'm not exactly on copium for.

A challenger has appeared: give NIN raise instead :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

It was never mentioned that they would be losing resurrection, you are correct in that them making a distinction that some will and others won't.

I don't think they would get rid of resurrection on summoner even if they wanted to because it's unlocked as arcanist at lvl 12.

---

The very long list of spell SCH used to have from ARC would like to have a word with you.
Clearly, they've no issue with that.

If they can remove ARC spells from SCH they can remove ARC spells from SMN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

The very long list of spell SCH used to have from ARC would like to have a word with you.
Clearly, they've no issue with that.

If they can remove ARC spells from SCH they can remove ARC spells from SMN

---

In both ShB and EW SCH straight up loses half its kit putting on the job stone

a bit nitpicky on my part but to not make other people confused:
https://i.imgur.com/Ryg67jC.png
https://i.imgur.com/LGPPMPe.png

they thought sbout removing it, but for now they decided against it.

i do think though redmage should be the only non-healer job with a rezz

yeah. og raising caster, keep it, fight the homogenisation!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

A challenger has appeared: give NIN raise instead :cool:

---

That would be funny to see using Raiton on a dead ally to res. Clear!!

Resurrection can stay.. Physick, on the other hand, needs to go... yeah even as SCH at low level dungeons, it is barely used.

I honestly hope SMN gonna lean even more into their supportive abilities and get more defensive/restorative utility. Cause, SMN always was like that, with either summons having utility spells or SMNrs themselves having access to white magic.

FFIII - first summons appears, each summon has a "white" utility spell, that either heals, buffs, or debuffs.
FFIV - before the timeskip, Rydia has access to white magic.
FFV - several summons, such as Golem, Sylph, and Carbuncle, provide defensive utility to the group.
FFVI - although there are no SMN, many espers (Seraph, Lakshmi, Zona Seeker, Unicorn, etc.) provide healing or buffs to the group.
FFVIII - Cerberus and Carbuncle provide party-wide buffs.
FFIX - Carbuncle can provide up to 5 different buffs, while both summoners have access to white magic.
FFX - Yuna is a summoner with access to white magic.
FFXI - every avatar has utility spells that provide buffs, debuffs, or healing. Also, SMN themselves were usually paired with WHM or SCH, and provided support to the group, leaving damage to the pet.

In some games, like III or IX, the split between damage and utility is 50-50, in others - closer to 70-30. But, my point is, that utility was pretty much always a part of SMN identity. So I hope Rez stays and SMN gets even more stuff to support the group.

I don't think anyone takes major issues with Summoners having utility. It's just that Raise/Resurrection is such a jarring difference in utility that it solely defines many groups' priorities when building their roster or choosing jobs in large-scale content to play.

Utility is ok and encouraged, but Raise should not be the breaking point for someone to say "this job has utility" or not. Even in our fairly limited game design we have many utilities that aren't Raise.

The real problem is this game does have a serious problem with utility

There is ONE single utility button in this game that isn’t raise and that’s expedient

Everything else is either damage up, healing up or mitigation all which just get baked into the healing plan

Imagine if Peloton actually worked in combat (with longer recast). Nobody cares about it out of combat anyway, at best you'll shave off 2s of running for the whole dungeon/raid, and people can sprint as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdenElsewhere

I think someone said they have thought about throwing out Physick and Resurrection with the next time the class was updated. However that could have been before pictomancer was in development.

---

I can accept removing Physick its absolutely useless on SMN but Resurrection for smn should stay that is too useful a tool kit when all healers are down and tank is doing their best hold through a tank buster on half their HP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Imagine if Peloton actually worked in combat (with longer recast). Nobody cares about it out of combat anyway, at best you'll shave off 2s of running for the whole dungeon/raid, and people can sprint as well.

---

i would love that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rawker

That would be funny to see using Raiton on a dead ally to res. Clear!!

---

I was thinking more along the lines of Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation.

Regarding res limits and taxing on SMN:

What if SMN had just 1 charge of Resurrection that gets refilled everytime they summon Phoenix?

So you'd get 1 res to start with, then you restock them every odd minute. It would limit the res without completely taking it away.

Quite honestly, it is no diff with removing the base spell and making it only available when Phoenix is present. While good and interesting on paper, it will be quite frustrating in practice. Especially given the nature that summoning Phoenix is part of the rotation than an opportunity cost, it makes matters worse. Sure the charge is there to keep it and be usable when needed but still it is something that should just be readily available.

It gives me the Summon Seraph feels where Rouse was taken out and that atrocious demi summon took its place... oh, and also add aetherpact to the list of bloat that could have been prevented should they not removed Rouse. Ugh.. those could have been additional adlo/succor modifying abilities.

I pray they never get rid of our ability to rez. It's such an afterthought for non-SMN mains that we have the ability that it feels glorious when we SwiftRez someone and they are ?!?!!! \o/ and the run continues without being a forced wipe. The ability to rez as DPS is outshined by RDM so I hope they continue to let us keep it on SMN.

Why do they keep addressing the rez as a concern. What about the useless Physick spell? Will they ever address that, at all?

I sincerely hope that SMN and RDM either lose ressurection or have their access to it significantly restricted (such as a 3+ minute cooldown), and have their damage brought up to compensate. In the case of Red Mage, I think it is very disspointing to put in similar effort (if not more given current encounter design and hitbox sizes) to a melee DPS and deal significantly lower damage than everything barring Ranged DPS. SMN's DPS should be brought up somewhat, but not to the same extent as RDM given the ease of maintaining uptime and performing the rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I don't think anyone takes major issues with Summoners having utility. It's just that Raise/Resurrection is such a jarring difference in utility that it solely defines many groups' priorities when building their roster or choosing jobs in large-scale content to play.

Utility is ok and encouraged, but Raise should not be the breaking point for someone to say "this job has utility" or not. Even in our fairly limited game design we have many utilities that aren't Raise.

---

What utility are you imagining? There are only three types of utility left in the game. Either you heal, you mitigate, or you rez. '+X% damage stat' raidbuffs aren't utility, they're just damage skills with one layer of abstraction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vetch

What utility are you imagining? There are only three types of utility left in the game. Either you heal, you mitigate, or you rez. '+X% damage stat' raidbuffs aren't utility, they're just damage skills with one layer of abstraction.

---

There is expedient but that’s an edge niche case

No. Get rid of it. Same for rdm. Only a healer should be able to res and what happened in top with 0 healer clear should Show you that rn healer are invalid. So please. Remove it and find something better. Let the players fume and rage. They won't quit because then they can't live out there housing dream or afk all day in limsa. The ones who are and will quit are the raiders who participate in your endgame content. Almost all if them universally hate the game right now. It's just not good enough the state it's in and the devs are too afraid to upset these super casual players who don't even do ex trials

i believe this is the better solution. your thoughts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

I don't especially think that raise is that relevant for challenging content but it's really context dependent I guess: if you're world first progging, sure, it allows you to see more of a fight and have your tacticians behind trying to figure out things while you continue progging; if you're playing in savage as a regular group, who cares really, everything is a body check and at best can come in handy when both your healers are somehow dead but not the rest of the party, which can happen I guess... ; imo it's amusingly the most helpful for casual content actually due to the absence of body checks.

But I do agree with your point, roles need more identity. Problem is, this would imply SE to actually introduce brand new facets of battle system to the game, which you'll excuse me if I'm not exactly on copium for.

---

Honestly, it's precisely for casual content that I'm really against removing raises from casters. I want no part of the Hellscape that would be relying solely on healers to raise. There's plenty of good healers that play this game, but with the state of healing right now they don't stay on healer for very long and what we get is DF and PF full of the most casual players a month or so after a new patch. I will never PF EX Mount Farms in a world where I can't bring an extra raise.

The larger role about role identity is something I agree with you on, that they likely have no creative ability left to fix. I just like to complain about how we have these roles and they don't mean anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

No. Get rid of it. Same for rdm. Only a healer should be able to res and what happened in top with 0 healer clear should Show you that rn healer are invalid. So please. Remove it and find something better. Let the players fume and rage. They won't quit because then they can't live out there housing dream or afk all day in limsa. The ones who are and will quit are the raiders who participate in your endgame content. Almost all if them universally hate the game right now. It's just not good enough the state it's in and the devs are too afraid to upset these super casual players who don't even do ex trials

---

Oh no, different party comps being viable? How scandalous.

Honestly, I think the better option would be to design more encounters that could be cleared by patient all-healer groups instead of hitting an impassable enrage limit. If tanks and DPS can self-sustain already in a DPS-forward game, why can't healers DPS?