New healers skills

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Originally Posted by Katish

Are we forgetting critlio...? SCH's identity lies solely in getting it and is one of the reasons why it can ignore entire raid mechanics, SGE can't do that...
Though the "pure" healers are the ones suffering the most tbh, especially when when healing is concerned. It's bad SGE can out heal, out shield, and out damage the whm where and when it matters...this without Kardia in a group setting.
Now this doesn't really matter too much since healing is binary mostly, but it does matter in regard to what whm brings to the table especially when damage is concerned. I can't say it brings really anything, at least AST has buffs (which I am not sure will stick around too much longer outside maybe becoming 1 button).

Personally would rather them NOT continue into the whole healing concept and instead reduce that bloat then start adding uniqueness back to the healers in forms of other skills. OTL
Healing has become too easy and having TOO many options has lessened the role greatly, especially for people picking up the role because they don't really get to "learn" how to be a proper healer.

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In the context of their comment it’s fair to exclude critlo because they specifically were referring to percentage mitigation

Though to be fair that actually makes SCH even more cracked because it has more mitigation AND it has spreadlo

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

There's a difference between stealing a similar ability and being a near 1 to 1 copy like scholar and sage are...

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I was only making fun of the idea that it was a time based spell.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

In the context of their comment it’s fair to exclude critlo because they specifically were referring to percentage mitigation

Though to be fair that actually makes SCH even more cracked because it has more mitigation AND it has spreadlo

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Ah did they mean the amount of tools? That should not be a problem given as I brought up healing is binary. It's either you did or you didn't, if you are timing your skills this should never be a problem even if they reduced mitigation tools to just 3 lel.
If they meant collective mitigation, it matters not too much given mitigation % becomes a % of a %'s aftermath in reduction. Would rather higher percent initial mits than more mit skills. Again either you applied it or didn't.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Kerachole and Sacred Soil are functionally identical. 10% party wide damage reduction for 15s on a 30 second CD + some healing overtime. One is placed the other is an AoE buff.

Holos and Expedience both reduce damage taken by the party by 10% for 20s on a 2minute CD- One applies a shield the other gives a speed boost.

Fey Illumination reduces party wide magic damage taken by 5% for 20s on a 2minute CD.


Taurochole reduces damage taken by a single target by 10% for 15s.

Those are the skills that have an effect that "mitigates" or reduces damage. SGE and SCH are tied with the number of skills that provide such effect. Are people counting other things as mitigation? Shields and the like?

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Kerachole is most scenario is stricly better since the range increase.
Before, if the group was spread, while Kerachole was more convenient most of the time, there were scenario where you had 2 groups split appart and doing a Kerachole right before the raid wide could be tight. SS felt better in those rare case because it could be placed ahead of time for both group to get the mitigue by merging together. With the range enhancement we got, even tho SS is now as big as most boss hitbox, you still need players within that hitbox... whereas you don't with Kerachole, and now that it cna reach players at the other side of the map, then Kerachole just became strickly better.
Currently progging TOP, there's virtually 0 situation where SS is better than Kerachole.

In practice, Kerachole can be used in more situation and you always get the full benefit of the healing whereas SS has more restriction without any upside for about 99% of situations.

The rest are basically the same tools just spread differently.

What truly saved SCH is deployement tactic and Seraph being better than Panhaima in most situation. (There are very few cases where you get 5 hits within 15s in order to reach the 1000 potency shield, but double raid burster are much more common, but it's obviously at the cost of more management.)

The DPS tradeoff of Energy Drain is big and as much as some people vehemently defend it, it is a problem. Sage can go all out on healing without a care in the world about loosing damage when it comes to their Addersgale usage. SCH doesn't. While they are different things, Sage having 5 instant gcd to DPS while moving is also stricly superior to RuinII in most situation....

The issue stays that SCH, as Mortex said, is clunky. Beside that massive critlodeploy, whatever SCH can do, Sage can do the same but more easily.
Kerachole >> SS in most situation
Phlegma / Toxikon >> RuinII
Instant Shield >> Non Instant Shield
Prognosis + Pepsi >> No prognosis + Emergency Tactic (assuming u ever need to do it)
Rhizomata >> Dissipation (when it comes to needed the ressourge for ogcd healing only)
Fairy Laser vs Soteria+Haima, again, clunky. Can't laser + other ogcd, can't laser while seraph, can't laser while dissipation, can't laser on pull (P12S part 2 hello)

Some things do feel different and are a matter of preferences such as
Excogitation vs Taurochole, I find Excog MUCH better, I feel like Taurochole should be a HoT+Mit

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s a bit unfair to count taurochole and fey illumination as equivalents since one is an AOE


It would be better to count taurochole as equal to protraction (because 10% HP up is just 10% mitigation by proxy) leaving fey illumination as having no equivalent

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Fey Illum is part of the mix which is spread differently on the sage. Fey illum is extra heal + small mitigation (aoe)
The extra heal is on Physis, the extra mit could be attributed to the shield on Holos.

I consider Taurochole to be the equivalent of Excog, both have 45s cd, ressource requirement, single target heal just differently. Excog autoheal and has more potency, Tauro has a small mit
I personally prefer Excog.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

In the context of their comment it’s fair to exclude critlo because they specifically were referring to percentage mitigation

Though to be fair that actually makes SCH even more cracked because it has more mitigation AND it has spreadlo

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Tbf, if you remove critlo from SCH, it looses a lot of what makes it good. This is precisely because my partner can do a critdeploy that she plays it, remove that and it's just a clunky sage.

^i don’t mean actually remove critlo i mean the person I replied to compared “percentage mitigation” and tried to equate illumination to taurochole, if you ignore critlo and focus on percentage mitigation then SCH beats SGE because of illumination

Holos shield is equivalent to critlo (it’s exactly why holos was buffed) so essentially SCH trades requiring more inputs in order to get slightly more out of the class, I don’t really find it clunky, SGE just doesn’t have any optimisation at all

Addersgall needs to go not aetherflow, aetherflow has existed longer than even AST has been alive, do something interesting with kardia, not make “aetherflow but no trade off” then use that as justification to remove aetherflow. It’s not like addersgall is thematic to SGE anyway

I have to ask, why do so many people who enjoy SGE always shout for SCH to be reworked?

So you hate SCH and think it's clunky? Ok, play SGE, you have SGE. How about you let those of us who enjoy SCH play the job we enjoy instead of shouting for it to be molded into something more to your taste?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I have to ask, why do so many people who enjoy SGE always shout for SCH to be reworked?

So you hate SCH and think it's clunky? Ok, play SGE, you have SGE. How about you let those of us who enjoy SCH play the job we enjoy instead of shouting for it to be molded into something more to your taste?

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I think back in stormblood sch was actual not that clunky and mega fun. You had the fairy do the skill when you pressed the button and not wait 100 years. The entire job becoming clunky was in the wake of pet removal in shadowbringer and the ghosting was even worse in shadowbringer. Also dmg design wise it was also way more fun with bane spreading dots in aoe and miasma 2.

I want sch to be interesting again and not clunky. I don’t wanna play only sgn. I was a healer main and having jobs that are clunky only ( maybe gnb cause it drifts in some cases like hell) in the healer role sucks major.

Soil gives you 6 ticks, kera 5. I don't think you can say the movement makes it outright better.

"The DPS tradeoff of Energy Drain is big and as much as some people vehemently defend it, it is a problem. Sage can go all out on healing without a care in the world about loosing damage when it comes to their Addersgale usage. SCH doesn't. While they are different things, Sage having 5 instant gcd to DPS while moving is also stricly superior to RuinII in most situation"

Why are you bandying some of the worst aspects of sage's design around as if they're a good thing?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Addersgall needs to go not aetherflow, aetherflow has existed longer than even AST has been alive, do something interesting with kardia, not make “aetherflow but no trade off” then use that as justification to remove aetherflow. It’s not like addersgall is thematic to SGE anyway

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Well because AF is older it must remains isn't really solid.

I was very disapointed when I realised that AG was a copy of SCH AF system, and how little we use Eukrasia considering how specific to sage it is.
But now that it's done, if I were to choose, I'd rather have them remove AF and make a brand new system based off the fairy.

I like the idea of a tradeoff (provided the return is meaningful), I personally would like the fairy swap to come back, basically as an OGCD of 1min CD. Depending on which fairy is out, your fairy actions are different. Like, you'd have about 5-6 fairy actions, but depending on which fairy is out, they don't do the same thing. Some would require fairy gauge. So you'd need to asses which fairy is best for every part of the fight, each time locking some of your tools. A bit like Seraph currently is (altough she's strictly better but that's beyond the point). And not just "this is the HoT fairy... this is the mitigation/shield fairy", really, an evenly spread distribution of single target mitigation and heal accross both fairy. Each minute forcing you to decide "which fairy would be best for the next minute, which skill do I want for the next minute?".

This would basically give SCH the most healing tools while being the most restrictive. Like, For that specific mech, having Eos 2min would be best, but that would lock X and Y skill which are on Selene for the next mechanic.

I might be the only one wishing something like this, but that's beyond the point. This would feel much more in line with what the SCH is, a tactician, (with a fairy pet). You'd need to be mindfull about your choice.

So many cool things, unique cooldown and interaction could be done with this.

I guess that’s where we disagree, SGE has two more systems that are infinitely more interesting than not aetherflow, I’d rather addersgall go and leave SCH the system they have always had, that doesn’t preclude them making the fairy better again but addersgall adds literally nothing to SGE, if anything it dilutes its already shaky identity

Make SGE about kardia and eukrasia, not free healing for zero reason

I agree the fairy needs to do more on SCH’s side but I also don’t want SCH to be a fairy mage

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Soil gives you 6 ticks, kera 5. I don't think you can say the movement makes it outright better.

"The DPS tradeoff of Energy Drain is big and as much as some people vehemently defend it, it is a problem. Sage can go all out on healing without a care in the world about loosing damage when it comes to their Addersgale usage. SCH doesn't. While they are different things, Sage having 5 instant gcd to DPS while moving is also stricly superior to RuinII in most situation"

Why are you bandying some of the worst aspects of sage's design around as if they're a good thing?

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It does depend on the mechanics you have in a fight. That’s the reason you can argue sch has fey illumination and crit adlo spread. Some specific mechs make kerachole stronger the soil, doesn’t matter that soil last 5 seconds longer because of server stuff. This flaw was even worse before the range increase in a good number of fights, TOP being the worst contender because of the amount of mits you need for almost all in p6 and even p4.

And people can defend energy drain (even I think it’s a fun but anti heal designed ability) as much as they like but you can’t argue that ED in general is just a bad ability that on one side does in normal raid and of gameplay nothing amazing and in higher pre-made optimised groups makes the co healer (mostly astro) do around 95 % of the healing because using all stacks for ED is the way for a higher parse. The ability gives so little gain for a pretty heavy price (if it would actually give mana back or we had quick aetherflow back then it would be way better).

Like I said I don’t mind ED and I rather play sgn if I do healer content more so for the not clunky gameplay (aka fairy ghosting and not doing what you want for like 3 seconds because she has to finish a embrace cast)

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Originally Posted by rawker

The only point that I agree with is Chain Stratagem being useless due to its rng nature.

1. Before giving further opinion(s), what did you find clunky with SCH?
2. The idea of spending AF stacks to dps vs using it to heal is choosing what is the best use of it given the situation...... Opportunity Costs. That is something SGE does not have.

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The main clunky factor in my eyes is the ghosting and ai of the fairy. It was way more responsive in stormblood and way more interesting. They tried fixing this at the start of endwalker because shadowbringer fairy ghosting was the worst problem the job had. They made it ok ( it does still ghost a decent number of times and sometimes takes ages doing an ability you used 2 gcd before). Worse offender in that case being seraph when you actually wanna use it as a big cooldown and it does not do the aoe shield for 3 seconds for whatever reason.

The problem I have with ED is the none existing synergy with the healer kit in general. It does 100 potency and doesn’t give anything back to except minimal potency (atleast back then you had mana back something sch really does need in bad situations) You could make it so that ED gives charges for a fairy aoe heal or reduce the CD of AF like old Quickening Aetherflow. Same with fairy gauge being almost useless. Just give sch anything for spending gauge on a aoe heal

I will sing ED praises to the high heavens casue any complaint about it will just get it removed rather than fixed in some way.
They gave it back after mass outrage, I don't know if it'll happen again seeing how the Sams have been treated. It's a bandaid over a gaping wound, but I like having the bandaid more than having nothing at all.

I don't like the just play sage argument. They could have fixed all the clunk by now, but they instead took all the QoL improvements and packaged it as a "new" job rather than fix what they had. Of course, some people also like the fairy and tactician aesthetic and don't like the lasers.

Sage personally represents a broken promise to me. They said it was a healer that healed through their damage, and the devs barely accomplished that.

Here's the thing, you guys may find SCH "clunky" while some of us appreciate how SCH works and enjoys the kit interaction that requires pre-planning.

By repeatedly shouting about how "clunky" SCH is, you're dictating that we're having fun in the wrong way and you know how we should have fun better than us, when you could just be enjoying the thing you find fun and leaving us to enjoy what we like.

I enjoy SCH's mixed systems that interact with each other and with none of them being overbearing. I do not appreciate being told by others that I should accept a fairy mage and be happy about it. I want a tactician with a bag of tricks, not an uwu fairy mage.

This is a place to leave feedback to developers. If you enjoy current SCH, say that. Those that don't will say that and SE will see what to do with the data.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

The main clunky factor in my eyes is the ghosting and ai of the fairy. It was way more responsive in stormblood and way more interesting. They tried fixing this at the start of endwalker because shadowbringer fairy ghosting was the worst problem the job had. They made it ok ( it does still ghost a decent number of times and sometimes takes ages doing an ability you used 2 gcd before). Worse offender in that case being seraph when you actually wanna use it as a big cooldown and it does not do the aoe shield for 3 seconds for whatever reason.

The problem I have with ED is the none existing synergy with the healer kit in general. It does 100 potency and doesn’t give anything back to except minimal potency (atleast back then you had mana back something sch really does need in bad situations) You could make it so that ED gives charges for a fairy aoe heal or reduce the CD of AF like old Quickening Aetherflow. Same with fairy gauge being almost useless. Just give sch anything for spending gauge on a aoe heal

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First of all, apologies if you already know about this, but from what I noticed, pet abilities are executed every 3 real world seconds. There is a window of at least 0.5s, most likely affected by your ping, between each weave, it will do both pet abilities, granted that both weaves were done within the 3 second pet "GCD". If you fail either weaving too fast or too slow, then the 2nd pet ability queued will be pushed to the next pet "GCD".

Another factor contributing to the ghosting issue is when you commanded your pet to use an ability and then you used Place, the queued ability/ies will be interrupted and held until the pet:

• arrives to its destination
• issued a Heel command.

Once the above are satisfied, then it will follow the pet "GCD" rules.

As for summoning Seraph/Dissipating the pet, I may need to do more tests to verify my observations.

As for ED, it is used to spend any remaining AF stacks so it is not wasted when you use Aetherflow/Dissipation.

I dunno where I posted it but for me, playing SCH requires you to manage a lot of resources at the same time:

1. GCD/MP
2. oGCDs that modify the properties of our GCDs
3. healing oGCDs
4. mits
5. Aetherflow stacks
6. Pets

I like it to stay that way. If possible, giving more interactions and opportunity costs between all these resources, the better.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Here's the thing, you guys may find SCH "clunky" while some of us appreciate how SCH works and enjoys the kit interaction that requires pre-planning.

By repeatedly shouting about how "clunky" SCH is, you're dictating that we're having fun in the wrong way and you know how we should have fun better than us, when you could just be enjoying the thing you find fun and leaving us to enjoy what we like.

I enjoy SCH's mixed systems that interact with each other and with none of them being overbearing. I do not appreciate being told by others that I should accept a fairy mage and be happy about it. I want a tactician with a bag of tricks, not an uwu fairy mage.

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Saying that only sch requires pre planning is just not true. And good healer player will pre plan the entire fight with the healer he plays after doing it for some time. I don’t mind if you like sch or any other job. It’s just my opinion that sch was a way more fun job in stormblood and became clunky because they didn’t like that the job had actual pet management that did feel meaningful. Like if you think we dictate anyone or anything because I at least have a different opinion on sch from stormblood and before then I don’t know what to say. Play whatever job you like but don’t assume that people that have a different opinion dictate you anything. This is just a childish response and arguing in bad faith.

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Originally Posted by rawker

First of all, apologies if you already know about this, but from what I noticed, pet abilities are executed every 3 real world seconds. There is a window of at least 0.5s, most likely affected by your ping, between each weave, it will do both pet abilities, granted that both weaves were done within the 3 second pet "GCD". If you fail either weaving too fast or too slow, then the 2nd pet ability queued will be pushed to the next pet "GCD".

Another factor contributing to the ghosting issue is when you commanded your pet to use an ability and then you used Place, the queued ability/ies will be interrupted and held until the pet:

• arrives to its destination
• issued a Heel command.

Once the above are satisfied, then it will follow the pet "GCD" rules.

As for summoning Seraph/Dissipating the pet, I may need to do more tests to verify my observations.

As for ED, it is used to spend any remaining AF stacks so it is not wasted when you use Aetherflow/Dissipation.

I dunno where I posted it but for me, playing SCH requires you to manage a lot of resources at the same time:

1. GCD/MP
2. oGCDs that modify the properties of our GCDs
3. healing oGCDs
4. mits
5. Aetherflow stacks
6. Pets

I like it to stay that way. If possible, giving more interactions and opportunity costs between all these resources, the better.

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Ah cool thanks for this information I actually had no clue that they changed the pets to this. But I’m pretty sure that was only in endwalker the case. Pretty sure shadowbringer fairy ai was worse than what we have now, or what we had in stormblood or before (I miss old fairy man). I agree that in general all healer should have more interaction and risk/reward in the kits. But with how job design is going since a while now we probably will not get these interesting changes. Like Whm has the most basic healing/dps kit interaction every (not much but at least something)

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I will sing ED praises to the high heavens casue any complaint about it will just get it removed rather than fixed in some way.
They gave it back after mass outrage, I don't know if it'll happen again seeing how the Sams have been treated. It's a bandaid over a gaping wound, but I like having the bandaid more than having nothing at all.

I don't like the just play sage argument. They could have fixed all the clunk by now, but they instead took all the QoL improvements and packaged it as a "new" job rather than fix what they had. Of course, some people also like the fairy and tactician aesthetic and don't like the lasers.

Sage personally represents a broken promise to me. They said it was a healer that healed through their damage, and the devs barely accomplished that.

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Yeah like I said in some other posts I think ED is a cool idea but it’s just bad on paper and barebones. But let’s be honest all healer are pretty barebones in the healing/ dmg kit interactions with Whm being the only and most basic one (press 3 Lily’s every minute and be dmg neutral hur dur)

I do think it’s sad that the healer role is just so barebones that people defend “clunk” as a form of fun. The healer role in general needs some massive overhaul and meaningful choices.

And yeah sages is not what I thought they would do when they said “healing through damage”. No clue why there isn’t a tool to spread kardia on other targets in exchange for a stack or other possibility’s

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Play whatever job you like but don’t assume that people that have a different opinion dictate you anything. This is just a childish response and arguing in bad faith.

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I don't have a problem with differing opinions, you can dislike parts of SCH, I never said you had to like everything about it.

What I'm saying is that if someone has only praise for SGE and only criticism for SCH, why not just play SGE and leave SCH be for those who enjoy it? I think it's extremely selfish when someone who already has a job they enjoy a lot decides to ask for a rework of another job they dislike so they can enjoy that job too.

Also, ED being bad is an opinion, not a fact. The problem is that most people treat ED as baseline damage rather than the bonus 100 potency you gain when you don't need the utility or healing. It's like if someone treats 3 Saber Dances on DNC as a standard opener, they'd see a 1 Saber Dance opener as them "losing 2", same as how people treat having to Indom once as "losing an ED", instead of "gaining 200 potency". It's basically just parser brainrot, even non-parsers can have it if all they care about is their personal DPS.

My gripe with Scholar is how you're incentivised to not use your healing tools with aetherflow because you want to use ED x3, even if the damage is little (300 potency extra per minute). Sage feels better because it's DPS buttons are not tied to that, i.e Phlegma.

But honestly, shielders aren't my preferred anyway - I main and much prefer AST/WHM over SGE/SCH, but I will say SGE feels more smooth and better to play than SCH, but I don't want SCH mains to lose what makes their healer fun - clunky isn't always a bad thing.

A little economics review. What is Opportunity Cost?

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the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

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Aetherflow stacks, well technically all of SCH's resources are like that. That's the beauty of SCH.

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

My gripe with Scholar is how you're incentivised to not use your healing tools with aetherflow because you want to use ED x3, even if the damage is little (300 potency extra per minute). Sage feels better because it's DPS buttons are not tied to that, i.e Phlegma.

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And this is what I'm talking about. It's a differing mentality thing.

If you see ED as a baseline 300 potency per minute that you're losing whenever you have to heal, it's obvious that you're going to have gripes with it. But if you see the 300 potency as a bonus you gain if you use your other healing tools well to cover the damage, suddenly you don't mind using Indom/Soil anymore.

ED is not the problem, it offers choice to the player. If the player makes a bad choice, that is not the fault of the design, that is the player's own fault. If someone chooses to ED when an Indom would save their cohealer a Medica 2 cast, they've chosen to gain 100 potency at the expense of 310 of their cohealer's potency, resulting in a net negative party dps of 210. That's what happens when you have a choice, sometimes you make a suboptimal one, and that's ok.

I’m really don’t get what’s so exciting about not having that choice anyway

Like okay yes it can feel bad when something goes wrong and you lose out on energy drains you had planned to use but would you genuinely prefer to just not have that limitation and vomit out limitless healing with zero downsides while you continue to smack dosis

It’s not even like phlegma is compensation because there is no skill behind pressing phlegma or decision making

I’m confused as to why people both go “healer damage is boring” but also “I want my heals to be completely disconnected from damage so I never have to make a choice on that front”, like you are actively encouraging yourself to use more boring damage actions with that philosophy

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Originally Posted by Aravell

And this is what I'm talking about. It's a differing mentality thing.

If you see ED as a baseline 300 potency per minute that you're losing whenever you have to heal, it's obvious that you're going to have gripes with it. But if you see the 300 potency as a bonus you gain if you use your other healing tools well to cover the damage, suddenly you don't mind using Indom/Soil anymore.

ED is not the problem, it offers choice to the player. If the player makes a bad choice, that is not the fault of the design, that is the player's own fault. If someone chooses to ED when an Indom would save their cohealer a Medica 2 cast, they've chosen to gain 100 potency at the expense of 310 of their cohealer's potency, resulting in a net negative party dps of 210. That's what happens when you have a choice, sometimes you make a suboptimal one, and that's ok.

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This is one of the reason why I tend to trust healer combined damage more than a single healer performance

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Saying that only sch requires pre planning is just not true. And good healer player will pre plan the entire fight with the healer he plays after doing it for some time. I don’t mind if you like sch or any other job. It’s just my opinion that sch was a way more fun job in stormblood and became clunky because they didn’t like that the job had actual pet management that did feel meaningful. Like if you think we dictate anyone or anything because I at least have a different opinion on sch from stormblood and before then I don’t know what to say. Play whatever job you like but don’t assume that people that have a different opinion dictate you anything. This is just a childish response and arguing in bad faith.

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Gods, I miss stormblood. That scholar... that job was my love, and every expansion is just me wishing to catch a glimmer of what it was back then.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

This is a place to leave feedback to developers. If you enjoy current SCH, say that. Those that don't will say that and SE will see what to do with the data.

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The only data that matters is game metrics. If you whine yet still play then metrics remain unchanged.

Its harsh, but that is how corporate software development works in general - customer complaints that can be ignored get ignored.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

The only data that matters is game metrics. If you whine yet still play then metrics remain unchanged.

Its harsh, but that is how corporate software development works in general - customer complaints that can be ignored get ignored.

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Nothing wrong with that. I'm not a big fan of scholar, but I'm not gonna stop playing because of that one thing. I'll leave feedback here and they'll do with it whatever they want. When all these little things start piling up, I'll reconsider paying my sub (like I have in the past and will continue to do). If enough people stop, they can come here, look for answers and change, or I'll just find something else to play.

This is FFXIV after all; they know damn well what happens when people don't want to play their game, it happened once already.

It seems we are getting upgrades to the aoe GCD, changes to Emergency tactics, Temperance and presence of mind (those buttons get replaced by other under certain status, like tank stance), chain strat changes to other skill under certain status, and sage gets 2 new buttons but no toxikon 3 so it seems the new attack shown is its own thing

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

My gripe with Scholar is how you're incentivised to not use your healing tools with aetherflow because you want to use ED x3, even if the damage is little (300 potency extra per minute). Sage feels better because it's DPS buttons are not tied to that, i.e Phlegma.

But honestly, shielders aren't my preferred anyway - I main and much prefer AST/WHM over SGE/SCH, but I will say SGE feels more smooth and better to play than SCH, but I don't want SCH mains to lose what makes their healer fun - clunky isn't always a bad thing.

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In theory, the choice between damage or healing is fine, but when applied to the way that encounters are designed in XIV, it just feels unrewarding whenever you need 'free resources' to heal instead of damage.

I don't think using a resource to heal than to damage is wasted, depending on the situation. If everyone is doing fine, I can pretty much use those resources to do damage but I mean, we're healers... should 1 person makes a mistake, or lags behind and will die to incoming mechanic, then that heal is not wasted.

On the other hand, using the resource for damage when healing is needed or healing when no healing is needed, that is wasteful.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I don't think using a resource to heal than to damage is wasted, depending on the situation. If everyone is doing fine, I can pretty much use those resources to do damage but I mean, we're healers... should 1 person makes a mistake, or lags behind and will die to incoming mechanic, then that heal is not wasted.

On the other hand, using the resource for damage when healing is needed or healing when no healing is needed, that is wasteful.

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I don't think it's waste. If healing is needed, it's needed... But it doesn't feel good when most of the situations where you actively need those Aetherflow resources is when the regen healer is slacking or when the party is really messing up avoidable damage.

In high end raids, for prog points, I don't see much issue because everyone else is also getting their stuff together until the clear rounds, but for reclears where the 'fun' is to optimize your perfomance, feels bad.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I don't think it's waste. If healing is needed, it's needed... But it doesn't feel good when most of the situations where you actively need those Aetherflow resources is when the regen healer is slacking or when the party is really messing up avoidable damage.

In high end raids, for prog points, I don't see much issue because everyone else is also getting their stuff together until the clear rounds, but for reclears where the 'fun' is to optimize your perfomance, feels bad.

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Lemme rephrase... better to sacrifice a few potency's worth of personal damage than the dps or tank dying. Just imagine you translated that lost 100p to more damage dealt by your team

People would immediately be a lot less annoyed at the performance of their team mates if we lived into a gameplay and encounters that were a lot less scripted. The fact that everything is scripted and can be predicted to a T drives people literally crazy whenever someone deviates even a little and makes them use resources they had planned to keep for their perfect optimal run. This is ironically why I'm having the most fun as a healer in normal content, especially scrappy and cursed alliance raid runs. Nothing can be truly predicted.

I do feel it's a problem that people don't talk enough about.

^it was a massive problem that caused the healer shortage in abyssos but the hive mind seems to have placed the blame for that squarely on the healers and not Patricia over there who couldn’t stop drifting her addle if her life depended on it

That is true although we should already be accustomed to these types of players. It's not an excuse, I know, but for as long as a person is behind the PC/Console, playing the game, errors are to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Valence

People would immediately be a lot less annoyed at the performance of their team mates if we lived into a gameplay and encounters that were a lot less scripted. The fact that everything is scripted and can be predicted to a T drives people literally crazy whenever someone deviates even a little and makes them use resources they had planned to keep for their perfect optimal run.

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My question is then "Why do people expect everything to go smoothly for their perfect optimal run in a random pick up group?".

If someone is chasing a perfect optimal run, go find some like-minded people and go in together. Complaining that you have to use Soil/Indom instead of an ED in a random PF is your own fault.

What also baffles me is when someone says having to use Aetherflow to heal feels bad to them but also, at the same time, say that they don't care about parsing and logs. Why would someone feel bad about not getting 100 potency unless they're chasing a gold log?

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

and sage gets 2 new buttons but no toxikon 3 so it seems the new attack shown is its own thing

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I'm not entirely sure it's unrelated to Toxikon, as it uses a very similar animation for the character when performing it. It's just not a direct upgrade or conditional change, if the datamine proves to be accurate in the first place.
That said, I'm more curious about apparent second conditional change on Prognosis as well as the new one on Dyskrasia.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I
I’m confused as to why people both go “healer damage is boring” but also “I want my heals to be completely disconnected from damage so I never have to make a choice on that front”, like you are actively encouraging yourself to use more boring damage actions with that philosophy

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I would guess because tactile satisfaction can be a fundamental component of a video game. Some people may not be hateful of 1 spam because it's thoughtless but because pushing the same button over and over and seeing the same spell effect over and over and having to hear the same sound effect over and over is generically unexciting at a very base sensation. As a few examples, I've been playing reaper for 2 years now and I still derive great satisfaction every time I cast Communio. It does big chunky damage, it makes the screen shake, it's got a flashy animation that I enjoy. It is just a fun button to push even though it's just a big nuke with no real thought to put into it other than not miscounting the pips and accidentally dropping enshroud like a chump.

When I play a tank, I always play gnb because I fuckin hate pushing the same button 3 times in a row. At least on gunbreaker I've got the hotbar space to stick gnashing fang into 3 different hotbar slots so I can keep it like the old way, and I get 3 different animations that look slick comboing into each other.

To bring this more towards healers, for my money I think Art of War is the best healer aoe. I like it visually and aurally (though gravity wins out on pure aesthetics imo). I enjoy the ground slap, I choose to believe it's taking revenge for all the times that gravity has killed me. It's also nice and practical, instant cast and does not require a target to use. But every time I've seen people comparing the aoe's, the vast majority of people seem to prefer Holy. It's massive, it's insanely flashy, it's super loud, and it stuns. People love it even if it has a full cast time which is a complete dealbreaker for me.

To slide out of FF14 for a minute, both FF15 and FF16 are ARPG's but their combat systems feel completely different. While I'm sure they are out there, I've never seen anybody compare ff15's combat favorably to ff16 even though they share a fair amount of similar anatomy at a basic level.

Anyway, don't take this as me endorsing one thing over another, I don't really have a horse in the healer race and I'm just bored late night reading random stuff while I listen to Growing Light. Just saying that there's more to abilities than whatever choices they can have you make and maybe some people aren't necessarilly in it for the big brain plays.

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I’m really don’t get what’s so exciting about not having that choice anyway

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I just find it more rewarding to have a system in place that lets me use all my abilities and rewards me for doing it effectively (like pretty much every job's rotation and resource managment) instead of having to actively choose not to use some abilities. We already have an opporunity cost with GCD healing and that's enough for me.