Sure it's a good idea to remove the static light dot from the eyes?

They all have some form of eye glow.

https://assetsio.gnwcdn.com/FINAL-FA...0211142734.jpg

https://imgur.com/ttMF4B6.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fPR6qX2wd...tasy-xiii2.png

https://assetsio.gnwcdn.com/FF16---C...cale&auto=webp

I think my issue isn't necessarily with the dimmed catchlights themselves, it's the inconsistency of what the graphics update has deemed "realistic." There are lighting conditions that are casting high, uniform beams of light on noses, brows, and upper lips that would (not) exist on real people unless they were wet, had just moisturized, or were using highlighter. But then the eyes being dimmer, somehow less reflective than skin, is "realism." The standard of "realism" is not uniform enough in this benchmark for me.

I, for one, don't really mind the environment based catchlights. It's fine. However, when it works in conjunction with skin reflectivity and transparency being inaccurate, as well as the eye shape on the model changing, it creates a discordant aesthetic. They aimed for improved graphics hinging on realism, missed, and landed in uncanny territory for a lot of people. Not all, maybe not even most, but a lot. Things need to be fine tuned, and I'm hoping that's likely because this is a self-admitted work in progress.

Edit: To be clear, I don't even care about realism. I think this ages games more quickly than more stylized approaches to character design. But if that's what people want, and are arguing in favor of, I'll get on board as long as it's consistent.

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Originally Posted by Fuyume

Now hold on, you've chosen a very dark and moody portrait to portray what a 'real person' looks like. Let's take a look at a portrait in more neutral light.
https://images.pexels.com/photos/614...ben-614810.jpg
And here you can see the catch lights are still very visible without having to be in extreme lighting conditions. There are also other parts of the eye that reflect light as well, such as the inner corner. I agree with others that the catch lights in the benchmark are far too dim and small.

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That person literally has one of these shining right in his face.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/...1000_QL80_.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fuyume

I'm not arguing for a return to the dot as it was, but saying "well look humans don't have visible eye shine anyways" while showing an image of a man in a dark and moody photograph where that was clearly the goal of the photo is disingenuous.

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That is not at all what I said.

And I chose that picture because the light it in was being cast from the side of his head, which is exactly what's happening in the Au Ra example and why her eyes aren't lit up like a Sailor Moon character. Unfortunately I do not have a personal archive of portraits with lighting from every conceivable angle so I have to work with what I can find, which happened to be a black and white picture. A photo being in black and white doesn't prevent you from seeing catch lights if they are present.

Big agree on what people have already said here, and after seeing pics of others' characters I'm glad I'm not the only one who's dealing with the sorta dead inside look with the alteration of the eye shiny. My roes vary but man do the eyes look better with the perma white dot! (Yea I did notice it missing during the cutscenes too! Those who I did test looked a bit.. scary)

(left is old, right is dawntrail benchmark)

https://file.garden/ZeirVMipelQtyM9h/roessm.png

Yeah, I feel like the light catch on eyes is maybe behaving a little too realistically, and could be tastefully exaggerated slightly.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

...
And I chose that picture because the light it in was being cast from the side of his head, which is exactly what's happening in the Au Ra example and why her eyes aren't lit up like a Sailor Moon character. Unfortunately I do not have a personal archive of portraits with lighting from every conceivable angle so I have to work with what I can find, which happened to be a black and white picture. A photo being in black and white doesn't prevent you from seeing catch lights if they are present.

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It's like you didn't see the other photo I posted three posts down from my first one, or the ones from other Final Fantasies that another person posted, at least a few of which were in dark or dimly lit areas. There is a reason that most games with this kind of style make the eyes look wet or shiny even when it's dark, because it looks uncanny to just be dull.

The argument that it's better without eyeshine because it's "realistic" is absolutely ridiculous. This is not a realistic looking game, it never was and it never will be. The goal with the update was never realism, Yoshi-P said as much. The goal is and should be to make the artistic decisions that suit the game best, and I for one am not sure this is it.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

neither of these pics are natural light, these are both photoshoots with studio lights and manacured set design.

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Sure, but the second photo seems shot with the intention of mimicking natural lighting – and this entire game effectively is a photoshoot or movie set with the power to place studio lights wherever they feel like it, even in configurations that would be impossible in real life.

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Originally Posted by Fuyume

It's like you didn't see the other photo I posted three posts down from my first one, or the ones from other Final Fantasies that another person posted, at least a few of which were in dark or dimly lit areas. There is a reason that most games with this kind of style make the eyes look wet or shiny even when it's dark, because it looks uncanny to just be dull.

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https://media3.giphy.com/media/XsUtd...=200w.gif&ct=g

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

The Au Ra example looks fine to me. The lack of shine makes sense given where the light source is located. I'm struggling to see how that makes them look less alive unless your definition of alive is this:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...01/126/780/795

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baldurs gate is my favorite anime

https://i.imgur.com/0oGYw3M.png

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Originally Posted by Fuyume

It's like you didn't see the other photo I posted three posts down from my first one, or the ones from other Final Fantasies that another person posted, at least a few of which were in dark or dimly lit areas. There is a reason that most games with this kind of style make the eyes look wet or shiny even when it's dark, because it looks uncanny to just be dull.

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all of these are from cutscenes which, like photoshoots , are specifically and meticulously crafted for vewing pleasure

most of the time, in game, they look liike this

https://assetsio.gnwcdn.com/final-fa...=jpg&auto=webp

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantas...game/#lightbox

not liek, bad, and these eye shine sure, but of course lightning, effects, shadows on the face. Arnt goign to be as important as wehn the game going into "Story cutscene moment"

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Sure, but the second photo seems shot with the intention of mimicking natural lighting – and this entire game effectively is a photoshoot or movie set with the power to place studio lights wherever they feel like it, even in configurations that would be impossible in real life.

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Not entirely true, nor would i want it to be. But for studio lightning thats when we have "special cutscene moments" hence why so many people (not all, but plenty) mention the BM itself feeling better than the cc.

and you know, gpose, where specialty lightning and other effects can be used.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Yeah, I feel like the light catch on eyes is maybe behaving a little too realistically, and could be tastefully exaggerated slightly.

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This is the answer.

The original white dot was really ugly in comparison to the new catchlights. The new catchlights just need to be more sensitive to lights around them.

Can some of y'all who're missing eye shines post your settings? 'cause here's an album of every race/clan/gender/face combo and they all have some kind of sparkle eyes going on. Some are stronger than others, but they do all have something. And they exist in direct and indirect lighting. ._.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Can some of y'all who're missing eye shines post your settings? 'cause here's an album of every race/clan/gender/face combo and they all have some kind of sparkle eyes going on. Some are stronger than others, but they do all have something. And they exist in direct and indirect lighting. ._.

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The lighting the that character creator is different than the one in-game, and the light dot there is smaller than the live creator, the screenshots generated from the benchmark is better representation of the issue. Also as I've pointed out, the light dots follows or should follow the camera, but new one only follows the sun so the sparkle will be missing from most situations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roda

Can some of y'all who're missing eye shines post your settings? 'cause here's an album of every race/clan/gender/face combo and they all have some kind of sparkle eyes going on. Some are stronger than others, but they do all have something. And they exist in direct and indirect lighting. ._.

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They are all taking their screenshots in Gridania which is abysmal lighting and makes everything look horrible and flat regardless of angle. It doesn't help that the very first close-up shot in the benchmark is shrouded in shadow.

Characters look immensely better in the aether.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

They are all taking their screenshots in Gridania which is abysmal lighting and makes everything look horrible and flat regardless of angle. It doesn't help that the very first close-up shot in the benchmark is shrouded in shadow.

Characters look immensely better in the aether.

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Though gridania seems to have the best colors in it's lighting. The other locations adds bit of a tint.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Though gridania seems to have the best colors in it's lighting. The other locations adds bit of a tint.

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All of the maps are the wrong color tbh. It's all washed out or too dark except the benchmark. Gridania looks like you got flashbanged.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

They are all taking their screenshots in Gridania which is abysmal lighting and makes everything look horrible and flat regardless of angle. It doesn't help that the very first close-up shot in the benchmark is shrouded in shadow.

Characters look immensely better in the aether.

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I chose aether 'cause it didn't have the shifting clouds issue which would add a few more variables to the comparisons that I was too lazy to try and mitigate, but my eye shines stayed consistent in every lighting scenario (As mentioned by my last line)
https://i.gyazo.com/5dc7e7438143b5b4...6ecf026a8a.gif

https://i.imgur.com/V6uJnqy.png
(lit from the side)

https://i.imgur.com/5wlHNER.png
(in shade and obscured)

https://i.imgur.com/GkLfjqm.png
(lit from behind)

At least on my end, the sparklies are still very present :x

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2afefef17801e&

I think the issue stems from a mixture of the eye shiny that is almost always visible is so incredibly low contrast that it makes the eyes look lifeless in addition with some races (Roe is the biggest offender, faces 1 and 3 having it the worst I think) having incredibly dark eyes all of a sudden.
See:

https://file.garden/ZeirVMipelQtyM9h/roes.png

The old static shiny was higher contrast, but with the changes to the eye colours and the sclera being even whiter now it looks so much more dull by comparison (giving the illusion of the lifeless eyes)

I think what the blue aether background does in some of its scenarios is almost good enough, it just needs a bit more pushing of that contrast to make the eye shine pop more, and maybe a bit less of the shadows on the eyes, but from what I've seen of screenshots on the forum this entirely depends on the race, some I've seen had the eyes lightened (Elezen for example).

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Originally Posted by StarKorg

https://file.garden/ZeirVMipelQtyM9h/elezen.png

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Here's a little turnaround I did of my main character (for reference!), my settings are not perfect, I know! They're just the defaults.
TLDR: Eye shiny in Aether looks best, but needs more contrast and those shadows need nerfing on some races!


Turnaround video (I don't know how to embed videos sorry!):

https://youtu.be/fAovsAfUtR4

Eye shine is fine, it now responds to actual lighting in game instead of fake imaginary ones. It makes the eyes more dramatic in certain cases. The actual game won't look like in Benchmark.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Eye shine is fine, it now responds to actual lighting in game instead of fake imaginary ones. It makes the eyes more dramatic in certain cases. The actual game won't look like in Benchmark.

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That actual completely fake and unrealistic lighting in game. So we have a choice of directly fake, or a reflection of fake. No inherent advantage to either. The choice so should only be based on what looks better, and so far the current eyes look better than anything I've seen from DT.

Would it be possible to have the static one in darker places, and dynamic based on lighting?

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Originally Posted by Raim

Would it be possible to have the static one in darker places, and dynamic based on lighting?

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you could possibly have it where it "detects" a level of dark/amount/intensity of light sources in the area to switch. but tbh it might be better just for the shine to be stronger/more exagerated adaptivly . since having shiny eyes in the actual pits might be weird now.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

The choice so should only be based on what looks better,

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TWO CAN PLAY AT SUBJECTIVITY,

the new one is better so that should stay

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

TWO CAN PLAY AT SUBJECTIVITY,

the new one is better so that should stay

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That is far less a gatchya than you seem to think. The arguement/complaint about the eyes was subjective from the very start, not something introduced by me. If you want to introduce some objective considerations, do make sure they are actually objective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aiqa

That is far less a gatchya than you seem to think. The arguement/complaint about the eyes was subjective from the very start, not something introduced by me. If you want to introduce some objective considerations, do make sure they are actually objective.

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ok,

The eyes are no longer static shine and are now effected by global lightning, this is a factual statment

my feedback: global lightning still needs work, and the shine on light for eyes could go for more exageration

I love the new lighting. Maybe because I have the darkest eyes possible (for Plainsfolk Lala anyway) it's less jarring of a change for me, but it can do some cool things.

Left picture - the main catch light is in the upper left rather than at a static upper right right picture - the eye partially in the sun with the head tilted up has two different light points hitting it, the one that's more in shadow has a bit of light still hitting it in the lower right:

https://i.imgur.com/5u2fnuj.png

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Originally Posted by Raim

Would it be possible to have the static one in darker places, and dynamic based on lighting?

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I'm thinking of some kind of LoD-type setting. Like...

Character reflections

⦿ Realistic (what's in the benchmark)
◯ Balanced (What's in the benchmark up close, & what's on live when the camera's far)
◯ Simple (what's on live)

Wish you could edit title, cause again it's apparently not static (least in-game) it's tracked by the camera being clearest from the front and fading to the side. Effectively the camera itself is casting a slight light that only affects the eyes.

Also seen some mention that the body lighting might be set to either default 50% or max resulting in worse contrast between the eyes and skin.

All in all, square should consider adding a area we can stroll through with in-game settings and lighting for their benchmark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

Personally, I think the new eye light is going to be a pain for anyone who likes gposing. If you're at certain angles, your character will literally look dead inside.

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This is my major concern as well. I noticed how muted my boy’s eye color was more than the catchlights in the trailer, but I do a lot of gposing and I dread the thought of having to be even more fiddly with light just to get his eyes to look more alive.

Edit: A quick eye comparison I slapped together just to contribute my own example. As I mentioned, I’m more bothered by his eyes being darker in color. Tried taking them down a shade but it’s just not the same color blue anymore.

https://imgur.com/eQhhfGY.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

ok,

The eyes are no longer static shine and are now effected by global lightning, this is a factual statment

my feedback: global lightning still needs work, and the shine on light for eyes could go for more exageration

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That "needs work" does a lot of heavy lifting and is heavily understated. Lighting is extremely difficult to implement properly. If we get full patracing with huge numbers of rays, huge amount of bounces, near perfect materials, making eyes actually relefective is an improvement in itself. And I don't really see that happen for FF14, ever. Until that time, making statements about how eyes reflect global lighting is a mostly contextless data point.

So we return to my original point. The new reflective eyes are equaly fake. Making a statement about that reflection in the context of "what looks better" which seems to imply it's an inherent improvement, is a misunderstanding at best.