I'd love if FFXIV got better

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

In short, your ideas are bad and you should feel bad,

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I may not entirely agree with the OP but they have no reason to feel bad.

You, on the other hand, should. There's no reason to be insulting.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Pretty sure the only reason people are complaining about this being posted on Reddit too is that they have to see an opinion they don't agree with more than once.
Life is so hard, I know.

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I have to wonder why they care it's been posted on subreddit as well.

The OP is trying to leave their feedback in places where it might get seen and passed onto the development team.

Not everyone here in the forums follows the subreddit. Not everyone who follows the subreddit comes to the forums.

We have no clue where the developers get feedback from NA other than occasionally MrHappy videos because they've never referenced any other specific NA sources as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Not to sound pointed but, what a load of bullshit. It is easy for the dev team to blame players bc it is ambiguous ans all catching. Intermediate players are asking for the two minute meta? They have to be joking. The two minute meta is feedback directly from people who play the very hardest content in the game. All it does for intermediate content is make it too easy because you can do whatever the hell you want and 60% of your dps will likely get boosted.

In regards to going outside and playing another game, last time I checked going outside doesn't make armor design less lazy. It doesn't make dungeons less copy-paste. It doesn't make the open world more creative or fun. Going outside just means the game stays safe.

The dungeon flow for example is so half assed I don't even see the point of trash mobs. Just make everything a boss gauntlet with hallways that have memoirs scattered in them.

And with the story going in a low stakes, ez breezy island mode with tacos and dbz tournaments, the same old cast, the story is set to go into autopilot mode as well.

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I wouldn't be so sure about who was demanding the 2 minute meta, or even what was meant by "intermediate players".

Seems to me the players most interested in the 2 minute meta would be those obsessed by ranking on FFlogs. They can be found in a lot of different content and they aren't always trying to compare themselves to the best of the best, only interested in how they compare to others who do the same content they do.

Every game has its art design for armor and progression system for obtaining gear.

Every game has its method for designing dungeons that after time ends up influenced by how players engage with the dungeons. Why are branching paths not used? Because players decide on a "most efficient" and ignore the rest. Why was crowd control moved from dungeons? Because players felt it was time-consuming and annoying when they really just wanted their loot.

The Dawntrail story might start out low stakes but it will build up over time. The "stakes" reset was needed. There can't always be a next even worse threat, especially when you just fought one that was trying to destroy all life in the universe.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Imo devs care far too much about what players want. Dev are artists-- they are supposed to show audiences what they want, not the other way around. I understand using player feedback for quality of life changes but players should not be deciding job Design. SAM wasn't united in removing Kaiten so why are they doing it? SMN did are not united in being steamrolled so why did they do that? I do not buy that they have gone by what a majority wants. They listen to Ultimate raiders who want braindead classes because the content is too hard, and then it bleeds down into the casual modes and makes them a cake walk.

And if it isn't raiders, fair enough. They need to stop listening to whoever they are listening to.

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Artists only survive when enough people are buying what they create.

You might be surprised at the number making art with mass market appeal for income while they work on their passion projects that few are interested in out of the public eye.

Speaking of getting feedback, what speaks against getting feedback from within the game?
Many games have an ingame survey option. I feel like FFXIV could greatly benefit from implementing something like that.
Make a quarterly survey on how players feel about specific parts of the game and recent changes. Of course you'd need someone to parse all the feedback but honestly, SE has the resources for it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I have to wonder why they care it's been posted on subreddit as well.

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It's that engrained NA mentality of feeling the need to find things to be chronically argumentative over. Part of me feels like it's almost the entire reason the English forums are so seemingly ignored as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

It's that engrained NA mentality of feeling the need to find things to be chronically argumentative over. Part of me feels like it's almost the entire reason the English forums are so seemingly ignored as a whole.

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we have created such a climate that everyone detests all forms of social media and discussion over this game on english speaking forums

the things people will shit talk and find a joke in no particular order:

twitter
streamers
youtubers
official forums
the mainsub
xiv discussion

anything else is just essentially considered fringe

its one of those really funny but also really sad realizations

That was insightful and I completely agree word for word. Is it gonna happen? Don't think so. Would it be nice? Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I flippin knew it. Changes always go back to its source. Which is us. I mean the same thing is happening with the recent alliance roulette ilv change. They did it because people have been asking.

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And yet when you say raiders are to blame for why jobs are balanced into the ground they throw a hissy fit here. lol It's unfortunate that SE only designs for either hardcore casuals or meta slaves aka the silent majority or the vocal minority. If you're somewhere in the middle uh... good luck.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

And if it isn't raiders, fair enough. They need to stop listening to whoever they are listening to.

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I think the problem is they're not listening to anyone, except the guys reporting their profit margins.

I ventured over to the JP forums to see if it was perhaps something coming from their side, but even they're not jazzed with how things are going right now, with an ongoing thread discussing the problems with the game. Which ironically gives me some small hope, I guess, that some of these concerns might actually get listened to one day...

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

twitter
streamers
youtubers
official forums
the mainsub
xiv discussion

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I mean, let's be honest, most of those are awful most of the time :D

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I think the problem is they're not listening to anyone, except the guys reporting their profit margins.

I ventured over to the JP forums to see if it was perhaps something coming from their side, but even they're not jazzed with how things are going right now, with an ongoing thread discussing the problems with the game. Which ironically gives me some small hope, I guess, that some of these concerns might actually get listened to one day...

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Makes sense. Anyone profit driven will demand simplicity because they think braindead games draw in players. As we see with ER and BG3, that's not the case. They're not MMOs but offline games have a huge audience with the same age range as MMOs and it can't be coincidence that those games innovated and saw success.

Imo nothing about XIV is innovating but rather resting on laurels. As the OP noted it totally lacks risk.

The glamour request is a common request, but I certainly don't want it to be a completionist thing. Working like the Armoire would be alright.

I doubt they will connect the maps, but I would like for the transition between areas to make sense ie. Gridania leading into Coerthas. The maps are bigger now at least, so for example La Noscea would be 1-2 areas if it were made now.

When I think of dungeons being boring, I try to look objectively and there is a rotation and visual tells to learn in them, it's just that we do them so often that they become easy. You can see how first timers will rack up those vuln stacks in the current expert dungeons. Whatever difficulty they add, we will get used to it and they will become boring due to repeating them.

The arenas are squares or circles intentionally, obviously. A lot of people want them to be varied but they seem to have a reason for doing this.

As far as dodging AoEs, I don't have a problem at all with this tick rate. If I avoid a red circle on my screen, then I avoided it, even with almost 200 ping.

They are aware that house decorating relies on bugs so I am sure that is on their mind.

Summoner isn't a pet job. It's a job that summons. A pet would be pointless. But they do in fact still have Carbuncle out the whole time, so it is still there.

The other suggestions are common requests or could be good ideas.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Makes sense. Anyone profit driven will demand simplicity because they think braindead games draw in players. As we see with ER and BG3, that's not the case. They're not MMOs but offline games have a huge audience with the same age range as MMOs and it can't be coincidence that those games innovated and saw success.

Imo nothing about XIV is innovating but rather resting on laurels. As the OP noted it totally lacks risk.

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profit driven sounds like an excuse to try to realize one being the "minority" not gonna lie.

I'd love for FFXIV to be better too. But the ideas in this thread aren't ideal solutions to address those problems in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

profit driven sounds like an excuse to try to realize one being the "minority" not gonna lie.

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Your Dad Yoshi P says I'm not because he gets all his feedback from us players.

Evidence: you can't even counter the point so you attack the poster. Total L


Also it's ngl

Another way of making the maps feel more connected is with the (air)ships, and better chocobo/falcon lines, there should be more of them in general. And it should be cheaper to use the slow transportation vs just teleporting straight to the location.
I've done some experimenting where I've tried doing story etc on an alt without using teleport, and especially during EW it becomes so egregious that I started making exceptions. Key example being role quests constantly sending me to the Lochs, or MSQ sending me to Garlemald - which requires travelling through all of Gyr Abania, because there's no fast route there except for teleporting. At the end of the day us adventurers are supposed to be inhabiting a world that others also exist in, so the non-teleport options helps with immersion.

I would love anything that made the open world have more going on.

Hunts really need some sort of change, because like fates, when there is a lot of people, it's over by the time you manage to blink and maybe do 1 GCD.

Dungeons would be less dull if you actually had to pay a little respect to the adds instead of just blindly double pulling, and the bosses should be scarier - especially with tank busters, and more frequently. If you ask me, a tank should be whimpering if they didn't use mitigation for a buster. More creative/demanding mechanics wouldn't go amiss (looking at you especially, EW alliance raids). The player base can hardly improve if there's nothing encouraging them to do so.

I get the motivation for SMN's change, but I hate how the carbuncle has just been demoted to a mascot who spends all combat -staring at you- and not doing anything helpful whatsoever. Moreover I do not like SMN as a whole, especially the ifrit phase. It should be more flexible, and have more different summons that aren't just recoloured buttons.

Generally agree with most of what OP said, but those are the key points that I felt like mentioning.

I agree with OPs statements

Specifically the housing sucks, decorating is a pain. It's clear whoever oversees this has never played a housing oriented game.
I wish gear didn't remove miqo'te ears or tails anymore- it's just so lazy. It is nothing but lazy, removing their ears and tails.

Dungeons are incredibly boring and a pain to have to go through over and over because it's the same boring thing each time as stated by OP.

Also, the character creator is bad. The hairstyles are bad and the graphic update will not fix that it's bad. Unless they are also adding a slew of new hairstyles and hair types, beards and new faces as well as eyebrows for highlanders- but I highly doubt that

And no more caster robes- it's almost always with them "oh, another robe. not surprised."

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I agree with many of your points. As far as feedback is concerned, Yoshi-P had this to say in a recent interview:



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...sil_game_show/

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asking for a consensus from a community as large as XIV's is impossible, I think Yoshida needs to understand that we (collectively) are not smart and they need to view feedback with some level of scrutiny or we end up in situations like the one we're in right now.

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Originally Posted by Karan_Vess

Please read my suggestions more carefully. You have a severe misunderstanding of what they are.
At the start of the exploration dungeon through duty finder you would pick the path you want to take just like you do in the criterion dungeons right now. As I said, a single path would take around the same amount of time as the usual dungeons and give comparable rewards. So, let's say you get into an exploration dungeon through roulette. You won't be any slower than going through a regular dungeon. If you went in with a premade group you could decide to just farm one route to get the specific loot for that route, or do the entire dungeon to get some sort of special bonus loot.

As I said, every single dungeon is the same with the only difference being how it looks. What I'm suggesting is a break from that moldy formula. Kiting in a dungeon the way they are now would be a failure, yes. But that's because every encounter works on the basis that you have to fight your way through. What if you didn't have to fight for once but solve a puzzle instead? I want some more creativity in encounter design.

I already explained my idea behind class customization in another post, so I will just copy that:
Job customization shouldn't result in a difference in DPS output. In it's most basic form, my suggestion is make the skill green instead of blue because I like green more. These customization options should only give a difference in feel, no more.

Your hostility is unwarranted and childish.

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Your posted class customization idea has an obvious and overt mechanical benefit apparent to anyone who has a rudimentary understanding of how the game as is currently plays, it is not just a red vs. blue effect difference. If you had just asked for cosmetic spell effects then I would say sure, why not.

You put dungeon and your branching dungeon in 2 different subheaders. But since you asked, your thing completely misses the point of dungeons. They are there to be a fast, bight-sized means of progression that serve as an entry level form of group play content. If you make some branching mega dungeon that is, I dunno, lets say 3 interconnected dungeons in one, then there are multiple obvious problems.


1. In order to serve the actual need and gameplay space you are trying to fill, each individual wing would still need to be doable in approximately 15 minutes. If any individual wing takes >5 minutes longer to do than a standard dungeon that it shares the roulette with, you're just going to have people quitting out of it when they roulette into it, the same way giant babies leave non-ct raids. The inverse is also true, let's say you make each wing variant length, 2 bosses and some trash doable in like 10 minutes (I dunno I always just solo variants I have no clue what the group clear time on a variant is). People would then bail on the other dungeon. Like you can say they would each take 15 minutes and be equally difficult but that's a nearly impossible needle to thread and I have no reason to think they could swing it. I also don't know why you think they could since you've obviously got larger beefs with the game than I do.

2. From a development perspective, there is almost no difference between any one of these wings and a dungeon. Needing to make a 3 path dungeon is approximately the work of making 3 dungeons which we already know from their statements that they have decided this is untenable for their content pipeline. In short, what are you willing to give up to make this happen? Exploratory Zone, DD. variants, ultimates? Like I personally would be tickled pink if we got this over a new ultimate or an exploratory zone because I don't care about either of those and I fuckin love dungeons but I feel like most people probably aren't on board.

3. You have created a roulette nightmare. We exdr into your weird dungeon and now we immediately have to talk our way through which path we want to do. If I want a glam from fat bird boss but squeaky doggo is 2 minutes faster, I am not exactly thrilled about my chances of convincing 3 total strangers to go along with me, especially if the tank wants the miniature squeaky doggo minion off squeaky doggo. Just thinking of all the fights (and by extension, gm reports) this will cause is hilarious. Or did you mean you'd have like, 3 different queues in duty finder for each wing and the stick around would be premade only? That's more tenable at least. If that's what you meant, fair cop but...

4. You haven't explained why this is better and you haven't explained why this won't immediately fall into the pitfalls I described for the old ARR regular dungeons. Like if this stuff is going into expert roulette, it's still got to be as simple as your standard exdr because again, dungeons exist explicitly to be the easiest group content a person can do. All you've said is bosses should require more than just doing your rotation, and then listed some ideas off that are actually less interesting than doing your rotation and that the community at large has proven time and again they couldn't handle anyway.

I am going to remind you that when the devs did get a little more creative with what you need to do, people tend to hate it. You ever hear anyone blowing up your fc chat about how fuckin stoked they are to get in the gobtanks for a2? Anybody zoning into A5 and opening with an enthusiastic DIBS ON BEING THE GORILLA! I've certainly seen plenty of unenthusiastic gorilla dibsing. Oh my god and that one fight with ultros and chupon where he turns you into an imp. That fight has been out for 8 years and yet the average number of imps I see getting in front of Ultros and eating water aoe's like they should remains 2 and we are blessed every day they made it so that doesn't matter anymore. Nevermind the constant feedback I see everywhere from people who hate those roleplaying duties. Like how sick would it be if there was a dungeon where one player got to pilot G-Warrior for a boss? I would be all over that but I know instinctively that it would be a point of failure and a rage causer every time 4 people who can't consistently keep their gcd rolling got there and one of them who can barely grok their own basic rotation has to now try and learn something new, even if that new thing is 5 buttons.

5. Lol a puzzle really? If it has an answer, it will be googled (see Qarn, variants). If it's something a bit more doofy like a sliding puzzle or a tower of hanoi I want you to go to your island sanctuary and manually tend to your farm, manually tend to your animals, and then imagine any puzzle interface for either being exactly as unresponsive and kludgy. Does this sound like a good time? Also what if I hate puzzles? What's to stop me from checking out entirely while one person slowly solves it? If it's something 4 people have to solve then anyone who hates doing it is going to bail on that dungeon instead of running it.

You can sidestep a lot of this by just not sticking it in the dungeon roulette... but then you've pretty much just made variant dungeons! Original content do not steal.

We got the 2min meta because enough of the community complained about buff alignment. Now we might revert back because 2min meta wasn't the solution. If neither is the answer, then what is?

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

We got the 2min meta because enough of the community complained about buff alignment. Now we might revert back because 2min meta wasn't the solution. If neither is the answer, then what is?

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Remove all raid buffs.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

But since you asked, your thing completely misses the point of dungeons. They are there to be a fast, bight-sized means of progression that serve as an entry level form of group play content.

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Who'da thought that's entirely the reason people want them to change. Shocking, I know.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

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Thank you for writing a constructive post. This is what we need more of.
1. I'm aware of that, which is why I intend for each path to take ~15 minutes, just like current dungeons now. As for what's in the path, you could just as well have a path where you only fight a bunch of bosses. Maybe if you're daring, just pull all the bosses at once.
2. I don't believe players should concern themselves with how the game is developed. If the devs want to do it, they'll find a way to do it, so I won't comment on that.
3. The current system of criterion dungeons already solves that. You stand on the path that you want to take and if other people also want to go that way, they'll stand with you and the path is chosen. If there's no consensus, a path is chosen at random. If you want a specific path and nothing else, you make a premade group.
4. I think this way of doing a dungeon is better simply because it's different than what we have now. I provided examples that I think would be fun. What do you think would make dungeons more fun? Be it as fight mechanics or doing something else in a dungeon?
4.1 Believe it or not but I DO know people who always wanted to do the gobtank or the gorilla. I do think those are fun mechanics and we should get more of the like. I don't care if that means someone's personal DPS is lower because of it and the game should never be made with those people in mind.
5. Then the answer just won't be the same all the time, make it random. I understand that not everyone would like puzzles but again, just a suggestion. Back to 4.: What would you like to see?

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Anybody zoning into A5 and opening with an enthusiastic DIBS ON BEING THE GORILLA!

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Unironically me every time.

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Originally Posted by PetThisMiqo

I would love it if people stopped looking for made up issues to complain about. Many of the issues you have mentioned are in fact not issues at all. The game is fine. Your list of problems with the game is enormous and that tells me that if you truly believe them to be problems then this is not the game for you.

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Most empathetic forums user.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Remove all raid buffs.

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Could not agree more. I even made a thread about his on these forums several months ago. While some people could see that raid buffs in and of themselves were the core of the problem most people did not seem too keen on the idea.

Just to bring up a point again now that the Fallguys collab is out:
Network delay between client and server
Again, it's not lag from a slow connection, it's simply because the server doesn't send updates to the client fast enough. This is extremely visible now and really should be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Karan_Vess

TLDR; at the end.

The map is disconnected.
One really cool thing about 1.0 was that you could walk from Limsa to Uldah without a single loading screen. It’s not a big deal gameplay wise but it was really cool, and I want it back.

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I really do miss going to Limsa from 1.0 and it being able to seeing people where the aetheryte is now from upper. Crossing the bridge from the lower docks to lower la noscea it silly but it felt more immersive.

but i do wish they would move from this homogenization they have going on right now. Roles don't have to be complicated but they don't same.

and finally I wish they never got rid of the favored equipment from FFXIV 1.0 : gear may have "Favored Classes". While they can be used by everyone, using in any class that's not the favored will incur a stat decrease, even if the player's level is at or above the Optimal Rank.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Remove all raid buffs.

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100% agree at this point

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

100% agree at this point

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I mean, that works create the issue of classes becoming either meta or useless depending on personal Dps performance. There are classes nowadays that are being kept from gatekeeping I just because of raid-wide utility alone.

There's no way we're ever gonna please everyone and honestly I'd rather have everything be viable rather than being gatekept over not liking a particular class, had enough of that in Gw2 already, of all places.

[QUOTE=Karan_Vess;6368026]Jobs are too homogenized
I don’t think I have anything new to add here. Everything that needs to be said, someone else has already said better. At most I think there should be more distinction inside each role. Healers have Shield and Pure healing, DPS have selfish and not shellfish, Tanks have good and not so good. For example, I’d love it if they allowed dancers to decide whether they want to go full DPS or full support, same with Bards. Or just give everyone the option to choose.

Well this would be a big stretch since clears are based on everyone doing damage. So they have to give the class like perm dmg buffs for others and that’s probably not something worth doing.

The current formula works I doubt they want to shake to much up.

Big problem in wow as well every expansion since legion is more or less the same outside like one big expansion only future that ends up removed anyways.

Personally I kinda enjoy ff14 for what it is though. What we have in place might not be the absolute pinnacle of gaming but it’s comfort food you know what to expect.

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Originally Posted by Karan_Vess

2. I don't believe players should concern themselves with how the game is developed. If the devs want to do it, they'll find a way to do it, so I won't comment on that.

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I agree with most of the problems you've highlighted, but this sentence really bothers me.

Gamers don't have to be developers. That's true. On the other hand, they do have to have a minimum awareness of the time it takes to get certain features... or simply the feasibility of the thing. To give a fairly simple example, and one that's chronic in all MMORPGs: many players are asking for more content AND expansions in quick succession. Or a total graphical overhaul. Or a rework of quests from previous expansions.

They do so in good faith, but they don't realize that some of these demands are tantamount to asking for a whole new game. The devs can accommodate some of these requests, no doubt; but it will be at the expense of a new class, a new story, a new raid, and so on. So, of course, you can respond to this with the usual "the company just needs to hire more", or with "where there's a will, there's a way"; but then you're talking to the shareholders, not the developers (good luck btw, they're generally the most deconnected people on earth). Because developers have a given amount of time to work, teams whose numbers are determined by the hierarchy, and technical capacities limited by the age of the game.

In the end, the profession is rather invisible: it's the little hands behind the marketing team, the project managers. Even the artists responsible for concept art have a higher visibility. But that's no reason to demand things of them that would be considered unreasonable in other situations. When a nurse tells you that there are so few medical workers that she's required to be in two rooms at the same time, would you take the liberty of proudly replying that "where there's a will, there's a way?" (aka: just invent cloning, stop pissing me off with your excuses). I don't think so... Even if you're not a nurse yourself.

The real question would be: which feature is important enough to justify sacrificing another? We could, for example, imagine a gameplay overhaul at the expense of new classes. The number of complaints about healers seems to indicate that this role would be a fairly high priority.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

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The real question would be: which feature is important enough to justify sacrificing another? We could, for example, imagine a gameplay overhaul at the expense of new classes. The number of complaints about healers seems to indicate that this role would be a fairly high priority.

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And exactly that question the players shouldn't concern themselves with. Let the devs answer it.
Nobody is demanding anything of anyone and if they do they're not worth listening to. Players make suggestions and developers consider them. But you should never NOT make a suggestion just because someone that isn't involved with the development might think it's a bad idea. Don't make decisions for the developers. That's my point.
Make the suggestion that a gameplay overhaul is necessary.
Make another suggestion that new healers should be added.
Then the devs decide and what do you know, maybe they can actually manage both? I'm repeating myself here but LET THEM DECIDE instead of shooting down suggestions right from the start.