Pandaemonium raids are too stressful

How does this guy keep making more alts ? I keep blocking them but they pop en masse. And you still see the thread titles of people you block...

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Originally Posted by Teno

How does this guy keep making more alts ? I keep blocking them but they pop en masse. And you still see the thread titles of people you block...

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How? He has a mass of disposable income, or he's an rmt bot. My bet is the latter. His characters on jenova are always "busy" at gathering nodes.

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Originally Posted by Teno

How does this guy keep making more alts ? I keep blocking them but they pop en masse. And you still see the thread titles of people you block...

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I usually didn't mind him that much but it's getting really excessive.
It's already hard to justify paying one sub these days so I have no idea how he can throw so much money into forum trolling.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I usually didn't mind him that much but it's getting really excessive.
It's already hard to justify paying one sub these days so I have no idea how he can throw so much money into forum trolling.

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He just needs to wear a fake mustache in the profile pics so we can’t tell it’s him.

I went in with a group of friends, in voice chat. P9N we one shotted. P10N was definitely way harder, but I think we only had two wipes before figuring out the new wacky mechanics, and we agreed it was a pretty fun fight. A couple of waymarks and assigning general directions for towers made a big difference.

P11N we wiped once but a lot of those mechanics were variations on stuff we've already seen so it was pretty easy to figure out and it was just bad luck we wiped.

P12 was..... something. I think we had four wipes before clearing. But we eventually figured out how to zombie it until at least the tanks were alive for the last 5% to clear it.

Caveats: We all went in blind with no clue what was coming. However, many of us have been raiding together for years - two of us decades dating back to FFXI. Since we were on VC, it was pretty easy for us to stop after a wipe an analyze.

If you aren't with a pre made group and don't want to risk being embarrassed in a PF with randos, then don't go in on the first day blind. Wait until the various raiders have made their own guides.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Its not and its not. Its normal mode part of the story. Story mode. End game is savages and ultimates. This is supposed to be story mode.

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This is unfortunately just wrong and a misunderstanding on your end, MSQ is the story mode. No ifs ands or buts about it. If the developers wanted you to play through it because its a part of the story then they would make it mandatory. They did precisely that with the Crystal Tower raid going from optional to required. While Pandaemonium may be heavily connected to Elpis and the ending cutscene we saw at the end of 6.0, it was and is never going to be a main part of the story and if the player wanted they could just ignore it and move on and be no less knowledgeable about the main story. It's why the Eden raid tier was not required despite debatably being even more a part of the "story" due to the connection to Ryne.

If the developers want to make the story mode of the game as easy as it can be so everyone can enjoy it, thats fine. But if Normal Raids are completely optional then the developers should have the freedom to make them more difficult and expect more from the players to work through them. I mean you didn't even mention Extremes in your note about end game content which is by farrrrr harder than any normal raid so are they story mode content as well?

Had no issue really. It's all about trial and error until you get the fight memorized and in line with your role.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

We all were new and had to do it at one point or another.

I came in during ShB so had all of the mechs from ARR-SB to learn on top of whatever was current in ShB. If you want a reward from something, you have to put in the effort to get it. So what if you die a lot? Ask questions or watch a video to get the clarity you need to improve. The fights are chaotic but they're really not that difficult. Push yourself, that's all. Asking for them to be dumbed down even further would cause more problems than solve imo.

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I just get stressed out easily and I wish there was something easier...

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I went in with a group of friends, in voice chat. P9N we one shotted. P10N was definitely way harder, but I think we only had two wipes before figuring out the new wacky mechanics, and we agreed it was a pretty fun fight. A couple of waymarks and assigning general directions for towers made a big difference.

P11N we wiped once but a lot of those mechanics were variations on stuff we've already seen so it was pretty easy to figure out and it was just bad luck we wiped.

P12 was..... something. I think we had four wipes before clearing. But we eventually figured out how to zombie it until at least the tanks were alive for the last 5% to clear it.

Caveats: We all went in blind with no clue what was coming. However, many of us have been raiding together for years - two of us decades dating back to FFXI. Since we were on VC, it was pretty easy for us to stop after a wipe an analyze.

If you aren't with a pre made group and don't want to risk being embarrassed in a PF with randos, then don't go in on the first day blind. Wait until the various raiders have made their own guides.

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Thanks for the tip and being kind. This is the first time I'm doing a raid when it just came out and the experience kind of scarred me :/

Next time I'll wait a few days for guides to come out.

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Originally Posted by Picker

The difficulty is fine. It’s week 1 min ilvl for most. Still not as rough as o9-12

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I still have Larboard Wave Cannon flashbacks.

Even E10 was harder than these raids because of the shadow mechanic that is very confusing until you understand how the shadow is oriented and orient yourself correctly for it. E12 wasn't had but involved doing maths to add up mechanics (such as ice + fire or lightning + ice) to work out the safe spot in your head and that was more likely to hit you than these raids tbh.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I went in with a group of friends, in voice chat. P9N we one shotted. P10N was definitely way harder, but I think we only had two wipes before figuring out the new wacky mechanics, and we agreed it was a pretty fun fight. A couple of waymarks and assigning general directions for towers made a big difference.

P11N we wiped once but a lot of those mechanics were variations on stuff we've already seen so it was pretty easy to figure out and it was just bad luck we wiped.

P12 was..... something. I think we had four wipes before clearing. But we eventually figured out how to zombie it until at least the tanks were alive for the last 5% to clear it.

Caveats: We all went in blind with no clue what was coming. However, many of us have been raiding together for years - two of us decades dating back to FFXI. Since we were on VC, it was pretty easy for us to stop after a wipe an analyze.

If you aren't with a pre made group and don't want to risk being embarrassed in a PF with randos, then don't go in on the first day blind. Wait until the various raiders have made their own guides.

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Sorry I might be a little out of the loop but people create guides to Normal mode content that is all clearly telegraphed for you by the devs?

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Originally Posted by Yokotsune

Sorry I might be a little out of the loop but people create guides to Normal mode content that is all clearly telegraphed for you by the devs?

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Is that a question or a 'I'm so good I never look up guides' humble brag?

The guides for normal mode content began when mechanics weren't as obvious or intuitive, but since Heavensward they've gradually added more telegraphs for things and now we are at a point where any new content and any content they change like the ARR changes are now clearly telegraphed.

It's just sort of tradition to still make them I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Is that a question or a 'I'm so good I never look up guides' humble brag?

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Genuinely an honest question because telegraphs are meant for you to see where an attack originates from and where the AOE is going to land/hit. If you want to think of it as a humble brag that's on you.

Big disagree, I was disappointed at how easy they are actually. The only one I had any wipes on launch morning was the last fight.

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Originally Posted by EderTheBro

I'm not having fun anymore in this game. After I died in the tenth Circle 6 times I just closed out of the game. I really want to see what happened to Themis but I'm now too scared to go into Duty Finder :/

The raids are insane in this game and have so many mechanics thrown at you over and over again. It's so overwhelming and honestly feels unreasonably difficult for new players. They seem to be tuned for players who have played this game for years. Hopefully they make the next raids a bit less stressful. :(

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*Looks at profile picture*

Oh I see...

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Golbez EX however is kinda hard to do with pugs...

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I can't anymore.
It's the fight that requires the least amount of healing since 2.0.
Every healer has like 40% overheal with no gcd healing.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Its not and its not. Its normal mode part of the story. Story mode. End game is savages and ultimates. This is supposed to be story mode.

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LOL endgame is not just savage and ultimate. That is endgame for hardcore raiders that's it.

After reading this post I really expected it to be far worse than it was. We wiped once I died probably about 6 or 7 times over the 2 fights. The mechanics are not that bad and many have been in other fights just slightly different. But defo not worth nerfing and defo not more difficult than Alex normal raids on release. I too am a mediocre casual player :P

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Originally Posted by EderTheBro

I'm not having fun anymore in this game. After I died in the tenth Circle 6 times I just closed out of the game. I really want to see what happened to Themis but I'm now too scared to go into Duty Finder :/

The raids are insane in this game and have so many mechanics thrown at you over and over again. It's so overwhelming and honestly feels unreasonably difficult for new players. They seem to be tuned for players who have played this game for years. Hopefully they make the next raids a bit less stressful. :(

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have to ask.. did you buy a boost? not going to lie, but after the first 9 circles you werent expecting what you got?

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Originally Posted by Venari

Seems like they only cater to raiders these days and make everything for them.

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These normal raid versions are completely fine in the way they are made. Yes, wipes happen in the first week, a lot of players are new to them, and since there are a lot of combinations going on, keeping track of them at first can be a struggle. But thats normal! Thats what makes these fights interesting.

What isnt normal is being able to beat bossfights on the first try. In nearly any single player game, you are generaly going to be doing them several times, as thats why its a boss fight. Casual mode is in those games only there because some people do not have the patience. But those people shouldnt play FF anyway, as you are going to rely on others (and patience can realy be a problem).

The only raid i had trouble with was the 10th on the first day (had a few wipes because of our party, 7 were watching the cutscene (so most likely new), and we wiped 3x in this). And the 12th, which as final fight is always a bit more difficult (wiped once, and then beaten it barely with any struggle).

But even then, in a few weeks you can be sure these are steamrolled, even if people dont have the newer gear. The gear in normals only matters when you get hit by the mechanics, as time isnt a factor here (no enrage). And this means more vitality isnt realy needed. As even now most mechanics still dont 1 hit you unless they are designed as instant deaths.

Most of the skills are predictable and groups will be able to carry first timer easily. The only stuff a bit hard to handle is the visual clutter in floor 12, where all visual effects can hide the tile collapsing telegraphs.

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Originally Posted by Rychu

This is unfortunately just wrong and a misunderstanding on your end, MSQ is the story mode. No ifs ands or buts about it. If the developers wanted you to play through it because its a part of the story then they would make it mandatory. They did precisely that with the Crystal Tower raid going from optional to required. While Pandaemonium may be heavily connected to Elpis and the ending cutscene we saw at the end of 6.0, it was and is never going to be a main part of the story and if the player wanted they could just ignore it and move on and be no less knowledgeable about the main story. It's why the Eden raid tier was not required despite debatably being even more a part of the "story" due to the connection to Ryne.

If the developers want to make the story mode of the game as easy as it can be so everyone can enjoy it, thats fine. But if Normal Raids are completely optional then the developers should have the freedom to make them more difficult and expect more from the players to work through them. I mean you didn't even mention Extremes in your note about end game content which is by farrrrr harder than any normal raid so are they story mode content as well?

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THis is a serious question and not a troll. I have avoid all normal mode raids for the most part. Did crystal tower and I think 2 coils of the next one (I could never get more to pop in the duty finder so I gave up). Binding coils was at the ragged edge of my ability but I was able to do it. Are the normal raids after that easier than the extreme trials (I know they are longer)? I am debating weather I want to go unlock normal raids and try again. I just don't want to subject a party to something I haven't a prayer of pulling off. so I am trying to get a gauge on the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

THis is a serious question and not a troll. I have avoid all normal mode raids for the most part. Did crystal tower and I think 2 coils of the next one (I could never get more to pop in the duty finder so I gave up). Binding coils was at the ragged edge of my ability but I was able to do it. Are the normal raids after that easier than the extreme trials (I know they are longer)? I am debating weather I want to go unlock normal raids and try again. I just don't want to subject a party to something I haven't a prayer of pulling off. so I am trying to get a gauge on the difficulty.

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Yes the binding coils raids are specifics because they weren't designed with hard mode in mind. The following normal raids from HW and onward are way easier.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Yes the binding coils raids are specifics because they weren't designed with hard mode in mind. The following normal raids from HW and onward are way easier.

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TY so very much. I think I might just start working through the normal :)

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Originally Posted by Myrany

Binding coils was at the ragged edge of my ability but I was able to do it. Are the normal raids after that easier than the extreme trials (I know they are longer)?

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By modern conventions, the Binding Coils are mis-labeled. They're somewhere between Extreme and Savage in difficulty, and thus in none of the roulettes, which is why they never pop.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

By modern conventions, the Binding Coils are mis-labeled. They're somewhere between Extreme and Savage in difficulty, and thus in none of the roulettes, which is why they never pop.

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TY, so I am guessing the later normal raids are in roulettes so maybe I have a prayer of trying them.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

TY, so I am guessing the later normal raids are in roulettes so maybe I have a prayer of trying them.

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Yeah, there's a roulette you gain access to called "Normal Raids" which refers to the 8man raid series from HW/SB/SHB/EW (no coils). I don't know how many fights you have to complete for it to unlock, but it's there.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

Yeah, there's a roulette you gain access to called "Normal Raids" which refers to the 8man raid series from HW/SB/SHB/EW (no coils). I don't know how many fights you have to complete for it to unlock, but it's there.

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Really appreciate the help. This seems to be one of those things I didn't figure out on the way up the levels without someone to tell me. Gaps in knowledge can be a pita to fill because you don't know you had them. I just assumed that all normal raids after binding coils were going to be like binding coils and would never pop so I never unlocked them

A simple tip from me... watch the other players around you and follow the player who knows where to stand. The new raids are always difficult on the first day but after 3-5x you can do them in your sleep.

I had to think for a moment and thought for a sec you were talking about savage...

if you have difficulty with normal modes then I dont know man just keep trying and figure out the mechanics

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Originally Posted by Elucesta

Please stop, just improve at the game. Tired of this incessant need for the fights difficulty to be tuned down because people don't wanna actually try.

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You...you don't understand...it's too...it's too hard...to put my deployables in the middle of the arena...ugh...I need the radius buffs! *Wheeze*

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WarpedLazy...cet-mobile.jpg

I thought the normal raid difficulty was fine after done it last night. I wiped once in the 11th circle cause both healers died to a mechanic but other than that no real issues. With the basics of mechanics you should have learned from all the previous fights and just playing FF14 in general I felt like it was pretty obvious where you were supposed to go and what you were supposed to do. I still loathe wall bosses and the 10th circle was pretty awful to me because of it.

most of the new content is fun and some just a little bit hard have not tryed the pandaemonium runs am still working on the new island content so overall a decent try.ps am on rank 14.

The group I was with, wiped 4 or 5 times today on the 12th circle. Though I wasn't playing healer and probably would have had an easier time than if I had gone as dps. Still, definitely was about the right kind of challenging for brand new content and going in blind. Looking forward to going into Savage.

LOOOK AT THE BOSSES... not too much at your hotbars or anywhere else... they tell you what they are going to cast next and some is done with visuals as well... the fairy wing is getting marked?

Well you need to dodge the sides in the order of what it was marked.. meaning it could be left right left.... left left right.... right right left....

Just stop, it is just something you need to get used to... and if you want to feel the real punch... then you should had tried previous tiers of 8man raids, if anythign they made it easier to spot and react to, today... thing is due to everyone enter with low gear... it seem or feel like it does too heavy damage, it will fix it self when you get more tomestone gear, raid gear... and perhaps crafted and extreme trial gear as well.

Anabaseios is honestly the only fun tier in the entire Pandaemonium series.

I loved the new raids - went in on healer with some FC friends, first time for us all. A few wipes on the 10th and 12th circle but we cleared through them in a reasonable amount of time (and we're a bunch of casuals). As folks say - once you get the mechanics down it's not that bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Rychu

This is unfortunately just wrong and a misunderstanding on your end, MSQ is the story mode. No ifs ands or buts about it. If the developers wanted you to play through it because its a part of the story then they would make it mandatory. They did precisely that with the Crystal Tower raid going from optional to required. While Pandaemonium may be heavily connected to Elpis and the ending cutscene we saw at the end of 6.0, it was and is never going to be a main part of the story and if the player wanted they could just ignore it and move on and be no less knowledgeable about the main story. It's why the Eden raid tier was not required despite debatably being even more a part of the "story" due to the connection to Ryne.

If the developers want to make the story mode of the game as easy as it can be so everyone can enjoy it, thats fine. But if Normal Raids are completely optional then the developers should have the freedom to make them more difficult and expect more from the players to work through them. I mean you didn't even mention Extremes in your note about end game content which is by farrrrr harder than any normal raid so are they story mode content as well?

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I understand what you and others are saying. Please don't think I am saying raids like Pandemonium, Eden, Alexander etc. are MSQ. I know they are not. But they are part of the story and often referenced and important. They too have a harder difficulty for those who want the challenge. My understanding is that savages/ultimates aren't really canonically part of the story anyway, so normal should be tuned about like Zodiark an the Mother Crystal normal IMO.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

so normal should be tuned about like Zodiark an the Mother Crystal normal IMO.

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Implying the Mother Crystal can't kick your ass when the group sucks.