Delete rescue from the game.

Well, kinda... The Jump and High Jump may not change positions, but I believe last I checked, they have Spineshatter Dive to approach and Elusive Jump back flips them. I use these similar utilities to counter our jellyfish boss using Tentacle Dig.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If OP's a SAM main, Gyoten's potency-per-kenki is equal to Shinten now, so uhh, we can just gapclose if its that big a deal? Same for MNK with Thunderclap or RPR with Hell's Whatsit

Not trying to be rude, but yeh, just like how the healer has these 'tools' they're apparently misusing, melee have tools to counteract it very easily. In fact, melee are the best equipped to counteract Rescue shenanigans (except DRG kinda)

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Gyoten is part of SAM rotation now.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Well, kinda... The Jump and High Jump may not change positions, but I believe last I checked, they have Spineshatter Dive to approach and Elusive Jump back flips them. I use these similar utilities to counter our jellyfish boss using Tentacle Dig.

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DRG has two different gap closers, spineshatter dive (with a storable 2nd charge at level 84) and dragonfire dive. SSD has a 60sec cooldown per charge, DFD can't be banked and has a 2 minute cooldown. Jump and its upgrades do not move your pos, correct, you stay locked in your original location geographically even though your model and camera will jump forward.

Still... You figure every 2 minutes you have at most 3 gap closes available, and if not you can consistently have one every minute.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Rescue is kind of a bad ability in the game right now. I'm not even against it because of it being grief capable, more the implementation has the same half-second lag that Benediction does. Multiple times I've used it to save someone, only for their dead body to slide to my feet after they get hit by the mechanic anyway. It's just not a good ability, and we could honestly have something different in its place.

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Yeah the lag tends to be a reason I don't use it that often.

I don't have a particular problem with it staying but if they did get rid of it and gave us something else, I know exactly what I'd want. Something I've wished a lot recently that we had. AoE Esuna.

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Originally Posted by romah

All is in the title. I'm sick of being pulled left and right by healers who thinks they knows better. Tank don't want to pull more, rescue him forward. Melee trying to get some uptime, let's rescue him away from his target.

What was even the point of introducing this ability into the game ? To save someone from a mechanic they don't understand ? Are you really doing him a favor as a healer when you do that ? I don't need help moving my character and if I'm doing something wrong, I'd rather die from my mistake than getting carried through something I don't understand.

Each time I bring this to the table when I'm doing a content, healer is just like "you're mad/salty" and then proceed to troll the rest of the dungeon/trail.

Am I really the only one feeling this way about it ? I'd sign a petition to cancel this ability tbh.

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Hey this isn’t meant to be taken the wrong way but in this game it’s almost expected of a tank to pull wall to wall. I don’t make it this way. Neither did the devs intend this to happen but the player base has spoken. It’s the way it is. It is right? No. But at the end of the day that’s just how it is. You will just have to adapt like the rest of the warriors of lights. You think some healers wanna dps like mad men? No but it’s expected and they have adapted. You must do the same thing. I’m sorry but that’s just how it works.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Hey this isn’t meant to be taken the wrong way but in this game it’s almost expected of a tank to pull wall to wall. I don’t make it this way. Neither did the devs intend this to happen but the player base has spoken. It’s the way it is. It is right? No. But at the end of the day that’s just how it is. You will just have to adapt like the rest of the warriors of lights. You think some healers wanna dps like mad men? No but it’s expected and they have adapted. You must do the same thing. I’m sorry but that’s just how it works.

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To add to this, once upon a time it was not so. But in those days everything hit like a truck and everybody needed to be at least decent just to do a simple dungeon, with heavy pulls requiring everybody to be pretty good at playing (Neverreap heavy pull was really dangerous for this reason).

Sadly that difficulty could not retain players too much, so they started simplifying things, which led to the heavy pulls that are common today, because things are a bit too easy otherwise. For an example of how hectic pulls were back in HW, the current level 81 dungeon can completely destroy a tank in a heavy pull if DPS is too slow, the healer can't keep up, or if the tank themselves isn't mitigating properly.

I'll be honest, I actually long for those days since it taught everybody how to play, but I know so many people who would quit if all content was like it was back then.

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Originally Posted by romah

You know what's conveniant ? Ignoring every single argument one might lay down in a conversation and being sarcastic just for the sake of it. Your comment, as many others on this topic doesn't invalidate anything I've said. But I've taken note of your disagrement. And yes part of the healer job is to fix others mistakes, I know it might comes as a surprise for many people but yea it's part of it.

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Want to double the funny here? Nothing you've said disputes my sarcasm. DPS mains believe healers exist to facilitate their entertainment, and absolutely not the other way around.

Every single complaint thread about Rescue is started by DPS mains kicking up a royal dudgeon because the healer made them miss one GCDREEEEEEE of uptime in a leveling dungeon, then spiraling off about healers RUINING MY FUN, then without a stitch of self-awareness use "healers are supposed to fix mistakes it's their JOB!" as some sort of gotcha. DPS makes a mistake? Shutup healer and cover for me, it's what you're there for. Healer makes a mistake and maybe rescues you at an inopportune time? I MISSED ONE GCD HOW DARE YOUUUU.

Get OVER yourself.

I can understand the jaded sarcasm within the post for the healers. I had been one for the other game WoW for quite a bit. One of the popular comic guys for Dark Legacy even put in his jokes for it.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/330
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/374
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/387
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/319

As a side note for the Lightwell Wrath of the Lich King Holy Priests, I sometimes gave up on that talent. It was getting buffed to the point of giving overpowered heals, but it still required the DPS to actually mouse click it and avoid taking damage to capitalize on it. The end result was predictably almost no healing from it and having to use Flash Heals so much more to dip into your mana.

rescue is awful, I only used it like 3 times since it's been implemented In the game, I'm not responding for people who can't move lol, I have deleted it from my hotbar, waste of space and time

rescue is amazing. I only used it like 333 times since's been implemented in the game. I'm responding for people who can't move or don't know how to dodge something yet lol, I have permanently drilled it into my hotbar Y-key, perfect use of space and time.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I can understand the jaded sarcasm within the post for the healers. I had been one for the other game WoW for quite a bit. One of the popular comic guys for Dark Legacy even put in his jokes for it.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/330
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/374
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/387
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/319

As a side note for the Lightwell Wrath of the Lich King Holy Priests, I sometimes gave up on that talent. It was getting buffed to the point of giving overpowered heals, but it still required the DPS to actually mouse click it and avoid taking damage to capitalize on it. The end result was predictably almost no healing from it and having to use Flash Heals so much more to dip into your mana.

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I remember threatening my raid group with getting no extra heals if they don't click the effing Lightwell. It didn't take long for it to work.
Healers getting jaded and sarcastic seems completely natural at this point because in every game there is this subset of players that thinks that healers only exist to ensure they can have fun without interruptions and not having to think about pesky things like mechanics, not standing in bad or staying in heal range. Let the healers think about this, let them run after you so you're in heal range, let them heal spam you when they're standing in bad because they've been tunnelling on stabby stab stab again, it's their job, amirite?

That healers are your personal butt wiping machine, babysitter and cheerleader is probably the most common misconception about the role and the one that turns the nicest healer into a jaded pile of salt.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

[...]Really, let Rescue be, there is no need to complicate it.

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A fine, different point of view. But yes I totally agree with you, I was just trying to think of a 'compromise' since majority of these 'rescue rage' stems from within dungeon runs which tend to be negligible at most (it's not like we have shortage of healing buttons to fix that kind of stupid at this point, right? lol).

If they want to change any at all, they really should improve that delay instead, not remove the button.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

A fine, different point of view. But yes I totally agree with you, I was just trying to think of a 'compromise' since majority of these 'rescue rage' stems from within dungeon runs which tend to be negligible at most (it's not like we have shortage of healing buttons to fix that kind of stupid at this point, right? lol).

If they want to change any at all, they really should improve that delay instead, not remove the button.

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Agreed. /10char

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

rescue is amazing. I only used it like 333 times since's been implemented in the game. I'm responding for people who can't move or don't know how to dodge something yet lol, I have permanently drilled it into my hotbar Y-key, perfect use of space and time.

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boo! come up with a better sarcasm

I agree with just cutting out the lag delay on Rescue. In order for the ability to work now in most cases, we would already have to have the notion of not trusting the DPS player to move right when the mechanic starts. If we need a crafted item for an option to turn it off against the trolls pulling us off Titan's platform, sure. Although suddenly seeing a healer running off that cliff and knowing they are a troll is definitely a warning sign to turn on Arm's Length / Surecast. We don't need those abilities for anything else in that encounter.

Also for Rilifane, my jadedness is more strongly against when I was trying to tank. There is even a Dark Legacy comic for that one if the tank does not have any good respect for them.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/392

In my case, the worst that happened was all 3 DPS running in all different directions in one of the troll dungeons for Cataclysm. Only the healer actually supported me. But according the other 3 DPS, it was apparently "my fault" Thunder Clap, Taunt or even Challenging Shout doesn't have 500 - 1000 yalms to save them all. Pretty much the final straw were the LFRs in Mists of Pandaria . . . against other tank players trying to taunt everything and pretend the co-tank doesn't exist. There was honest to god one thread asking for the raids to be designed for only one tank to be the big hero ...

It feels strange saying this, but I have had the most control in keeping the party safe as the healer. Even though the tanks are still needed to reduce damage taken, the healer still needs to be there to keep them alive and we still have to decide if we have the GCDs to spare to cover for mistakes. In most cases, I can here in FF14 since the damage is not consistent enough to demand the same Flash Heal spam on the tank Wrath of the Lich King WoW may have.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

boo! come up with a better sarcasm

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Granted I took liberty from your post, but it isn't sarcasm on my end, I've posted that because I believe it.

Tanks have a lot of control over things to the point of being able to solo dungeons and normal raid bosses. Takes a while but entirely possible because their selfheal is just completely busted compared to the incoming damage. And you have easy control over keeping the party safe because the incoming damage is pitiful. A single Medica II will probably solve all your problems.

I wouldn't call it better control.
It's more that your role has just become so obsolete that any button is guaranteed to solve whatever problem you currently have since the incoming damage is so low compared to the power of a single heal.
Which is most likely also what further encouraged this attitude of "Healers are my butt wiping machine so I can have FUN!".
I genuinely wish we had less wiggle room for wiping everyone's butt and blowing on little boo boos so people finally learn that no, standing in bad is not okay and no, your healer will not be able to babysit you. Watching people just topple over if they stood in the hyperbeam from Razzy is extremely satisfying. They'll not do it a second time.
Not every mechanic has to nuke you into orbit but making unavoidable damage pitifully low and infrequent while making most avoidable damage also pitifully low is just coddling healers and giving dps even more reason to demand healers bow to their whims.

And especially the difference in reaction to Rescue vs Leap of Faith/ the Dracthyr drag & drop makes this pretty obvious.
In my entire time playing this game I had only a handful of people (and yes, I remember every single case because it was so rare) thank me for a well-times Rescue while the rest went into some sort of "I know what I'm doing/ Stop using Rescue on me -.-/ If you do that again I'll report you".
While the reaction to the other was never a negative one so far. Not a single time. It was either no reaction or, more commonly, a positive one like "good timing ty" or "woof thanks". I even had people asking mid-encounter for a Leap because they got stuck in a bad position and would only get out by taking massive damage.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

If they want to change any at all, they really should improve that delay instead, not remove the button.

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Yes. Exactly, don't nuke a button that has a bit of skill ceiling attached to it. Make it function instead.
I also dislike that you can't drag people safely over chasms because of how it's coded. It would give healers a lot more options and something I really like about Leap/ Drag&Drop. Someone fell into water? Or is standing on the wrong platform? Or is surrounded by fire? Or fell down a level? Or gets yeeted towards a death zone? No worries, this skill got you!
With really quick reaction you can even drag people back from getting knocked off a platform.

They should make a raid where you're forced to use rescue just to really piss the DPS off

Imagine like the Thorns in P4S part 2, a tether is placed on two DPS that tethers to the closest nontethered DPS (so two pairs of two), and when the tether times out they die, it has a 3s duration so there's no way to break it in time by running. So you have two DPS at north, two at east, and when the tethers go out you rescue one from the pair to the opposite side (so south and west). And then when the tether breaks 'properly' it's a 2man stack so healers are at S/W to rescue and be the pair for that stack, then the tanks would take N and E to soak for the DPS that didn't get moved

Then the DPS will complain about their uptime, the healers will complain that the DPS are refusing to suck up the 1 GCD difference, and the tanks will complain that the mechanic might as well not exist for them, it's perfect

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Watching people just topple over if they stood in the hyperbeam from Razzy is extremely satisfying. They'll not do it a second time.

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Assuming you mean Razageth from 'other game', last I played they definitely DID do it a second time. And third, fourth and indeed fifth. Then again, they have a 3rd party tool that tells them which side to put their earthspike on Terros, with a MASSIVE ARROW on screen pointing left or right, and yet still Terros was always a 2+ hour shitshow to reclear on heroic because oh boy we've got six spikes on the left again and now the tanks can't aim the TB to clear 'only some of them'

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

They should make a raid where you're forced to use rescue just to really piss the DPS off

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I have very little experience with raiding (even normal), but what little I do know of is gimmicks like A12 where a tank needs to LB3 (and the LB gauge fills up rapidly to make sure you can clear the mechanic of course).

Dunno (obviously) how much this sort of "using kit we (the devs) KNOW you have" gimmickry goes on in other content, but yeah, it'd be cool to see stuff like this that uses Role Actions (i.e. stuff you know a normal party comp will have available to it).

@Rilifane
I am slowly starting to get back into trying the tank role in FF14 when I am with a FC friend. It is as you say with tanks having many cooldowns to handle the damage. This is especially the case with WAR Bloodwhetting and PLD getting a HoT with Confiteor casts and Clemency casts to boot. Another player I know of who played WoW calls those 2 tanks "blue healers".

The FF14 healers have also had the many cooldown treatment indeed. Asylum is pretty much guaranteed to solve a lot of healing issues of vuln stack DPS taking an unavoidable hit... As long as they stay in the circle... Thin Air Media 2 still takes care of that pretty well too.

We are probably given this much cooldown control on purpose since it is known that there will be resistance towards telling a few other players to adapt. It's still amazing how the blame gets an attempt for shifting even if everyone clearly saw them stand in the hyperbeam. Since even I can name a few toxic engagements from it happening in WoW, the Devs here would probably rather minimize that from possibly happening for content intended to be easy.

In the end, we all just want to clear the dungeon. I will try my best to keep everyone up the best I can. I will be considering funneling heals if I have to if the situation gets dire. If everyone is really low on health, I only have one Benediction and Tetragramaton after all off global. That is what Second Wind and Bloodbath is for to allow melee to help in that situation.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

It's not my fault that Ley Lines look like an AoE. It's so hard to distinguish them.

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To be fair, it might as well be, considering how often AOEs target them as soon as the BLM places them.

I know it's PROBABLY not true, but if someone discovered someday that bosses have some AOE placement preference that specifically increases odds of targeting a player in Ley Lines, I wouldn't be shocked given how often it seems to happen, lol

EDIT:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by romah

You know what's conveniant ? Ignoring every single argument one might lay down in a conversation and being sarcastic just for the sake of it. Your comment, as many others on this topic doesn't invalidate anything I've said. But I've taken note of your disagrement. And yes part of the healer job is to fix others mistakes, I know it might comes as a surprise for many people but yea it's part of it.

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As I said, you're just in an area of the forums where people are PARTICULARLY nasty to dissent.

And in that specific case, you met one of the worst offenders. For my part, I agree with you. /shrug

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Originally Posted by romah

You do make a valid point. Even though I can't say I like the way it's presented. I can deal with it and get over myself. As a matter of fact, I do most of the time. I was hoping this topic would not turn the way it did and while I still think an option to disable rescue attempts would be needed, I'm not going to argue any further. Mutual respect already died here.

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I'm sorry you're being treated this way. I really wish it was possible to get the people responding that way to...do less of it and be more respectful. I've given up trying here, though.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

To add to this, once upon a time it was not so. But in those days everything hit like a truck and everybody needed to be at least decent just to do a simple dungeon,

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Wait...what? o.O

When was this EVER true? Maybe Pharos Sirus (Hard)?

"simple dungeons" have always been doable with even very unskilled parties as long as they took their time. I'm not sure that I've EVER done a dungeon run where the party couldn't finish it, and I can't remember ever quitting a dungeon outside of some weird situations (once had a diva Tank that refused to pull and just...stopped. Like they just /sit and then refused to take the raise once they died to the enemy pack and said they weren't doing anything and we had to kick them, but the kick timer wasn't up yet. Besides that, the only time I've left a dungeon that I can think of is if I was doing it with friends and we qued for the wrong one or something and we were a complete party so no DF additions)

I'm trying to think of what "simple dungeons" required everybody to "be at least decent"?

Now, if you're talking big pulls? Oh yeah. The frog/orange crystal/second area of Dzmael is still rough even to this day and I've seen few groups able to pull EVERYTHING there and not wipe. But in terms of just DOING the dungeon? I'm not sure what "back then" you're referring to since I've been playing since ARR and can't think of any time what you say was ever true. Hell, back then, a lot of Healers didn't DPS...at ALL. Most DPSers didn't know their optimal rotations. We just didn't mass pull back then. That was the answer.

The 2 pull /wall was the Devs attempting to reduce people mass pulls in...I think it was SB. Probably because, like the Cleric stance thing, people would berate anyone who didn't do it. People STILL berate Tanks that don't double pull (I've even seen people berating Tanks in ARR dungeons not doing this, which is stupid since they don't have the same kinds of "walls" and because Tanks don't have all their CDs), so I feel like the change was mostly to reflect that bad behavior on the part of some players, not because they were trying to make things easy, per se.

In ARR, if a Tank was just single pulling...that was just the pace we went and pretty much everyone accepted it. Every now and then you'd get some impatient DPS saying they needed to get done quicker to go to work or something, but everyone else would say "Why'd you que for a dungeon, then?" and we'd move on, either with or without them (if they dropped). It wasn't really until SB where people really were complaining about it, and until ShB/EW when the two pull became the "normal" so that people would chew out Tanks who didn't do it.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

rescue is awful, I only used it like 3 times since it's been implemented In the game, I'm not responding for people who can't move lol, I have deleted it from my hotbar, waste of space and time

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Pretty much, yeah. It's about as useful as Repose. There's nothing gigabrain about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I agree with just cutting out the lag delay on Rescue. In order for the ability to work now in most cases, we would already have to have the notion of not trusting the DPS player to move right when the mechanic starts. If we need a crafted item for an option to turn it off against the trolls pulling us off Titan's platform, sure. Although suddenly seeing a healer running off that cliff and knowing they are a troll is definitely a warning sign to turn on Arm's Length / Surecast. We don't need those abilities for anything else in that encounter.

Also for Rilifane, my jadedness is more strongly against when I was trying to tank. There is even a Dark Legacy comic for that one if the tank does not have any good respect for them.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/392

In my case, the worst that happened was all 3 DPS running in all different directions in one of the troll dungeons for Cataclysm. Only the healer actually supported me. But according the other 3 DPS, it was apparently "my fault" Thunder Clap, Taunt or even Challenging Shout doesn't have 500 - 1000 yalms to save them all. Pretty much the final straw were the LFRs in Mists of Pandaria . . . against other tank players trying to taunt everything and pretend the co-tank doesn't exist. There was honest to god one thread asking for the raids to be designed for only one tank to be the big hero ...

It feels strange saying this, but I have had the most control in keeping the party safe as the healer. Even though the tanks are still needed to reduce damage taken, the healer still needs to be there to keep them alive and we still have to decide if we have the GCDs to spare to cover for mistakes. In most cases, I can here in FF14 since the damage is not consistent enough to demand the same Flash Heal spam on the tank Wrath of the Lich King WoW may have.

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I think I agree with pretty much all of this.

I'm probably one of the selfless anime Healer types, but I was in the military and am a fireman. "Star players" lose games, piss everyone else off, and tend to get themselves and/or others hurt/killed. I'd rather be a team player any day of the weak. I don't get the immaturity of people demanding to be the star, and I never will. Either you're on a team or you aren't. I like Healers the most because I like aiding and supporting my allies, and the thing I prefer second is Tanking since it's the same thing, just a bit more drawing fire for my team and a bit less restoring them.

To each their own, but I'll never understand the "I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR BABY SITTER!!" mentality. In the military, most jobs are support/logistics jobs. An army cannot fight any kind of protracted battle without support. I think the US military is something like 80+% non-combat jobs. And as a fireman, you do what the team needs you to do and what the Chief/Captain tells you to or you leave. "Freelancing", or doing your own thing to be "the hero", gets people killed.

Alternatively they could give every healer their unique Rescue-like ability that either allows some sort of movement or very brief temporary invulnerability. Though I'm not particularly anti-Rescue either, healers barely use the skill to begin with lmao, though perhaps that's a sign that it's TOO situational and could be replaced with a class-specific skill that fulfills a similar purpose.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Want to double the funny here? Nothing you've said disputes my sarcasm. DPS mains believe healers exist to facilitate their entertainment, and absolutely not the other way around.

Every single complaint thread about Rescue is started by DPS mains kicking up a royal dudgeon because the healer made them miss one GCDREEEEEEE of uptime in a leveling dungeon, then spiraling off about healers RUINING MY FUN, then without a stitch of self-awareness use "healers are supposed to fix mistakes it's their JOB!" as some sort of gotcha. DPS makes a mistake? Shutup healer and cover for me, it's what you're there for. Healer makes a mistake and maybe rescues you at an inopportune time? I MISSED ONE GCD HOW DARE YOUUUU.

Get OVER yourself.

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People like you are the reason I gave up on this thread. You're not even reading. Even what you quoted from me says that it's a PART OF THE JOB. Serioulsy who's kicking up a "royal dudgeon" here ? Are you listening to yourself ? Also I gave multiple exemple that bothered me as a tank and it's not just about losing one gcd. I'm not always the one being rescued, I also watch others get abused by it.

I'm fine with people who disagrees with me. You know that's what forums are for btw. To discuss things. But I guess it's just too hard concept for tilted healers mains.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by romah

I'm fine with people who disagrees with me. You know that's what forums are for btw. To discuss things. But I guess it's just too hard concept for tilted healers mains.

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Unfortunately that's what happens when you feel that your favourite role has regressed to the point of lobotomy over the last ~4 years =/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by romah

People like you are the reason I gave up on this thread. You're not even reading. Even what you quoted from me says that it's a PART OF THE JOB. Serioulsy who's kicking up a "royal dudgeon" here ? Are you listening to yourself ? Also I gave multiple exemple that bothered me as a tank and it's not just about losing one gcd. I'm not always the one being rescued, I also watch others get abused by it.

I'm fine with people who disagrees with me. You know that's what forums are for btw. To discuss things. But I guess it's just too hard concept for tilted healers mains.

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Calm down, healers are royally worthless in dungeons and even normal trials, anyway and damage there doesn't do nearly enough to kill a tank assuming you actually know how to cycle your cooldowns. Using our wacky utilities is our last ditch effort to not fall into a coma mashing 1 for the 896869696859th time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by romah

People like you are the reason I gave up on this thread. You're not even reading. Even what you quoted from me says that it's a PART OF THE JOB. Serioulsy who's kicking up a "royal dudgeon" here ? Are you listening to yourself ? Also I gave multiple exemple that bothered me as a tank and it's not just about losing one gcd. I'm not always the one being rescued, I also watch others get abused by it.

I'm fine with people who disagrees with me. You know that's what forums are for btw. To discuss things. But I guess it's just too hard concept for tilted healers mains.

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Ah yes because titling a thread "Delete Rescue From the Game" envokes discussion.

You aren't even asking to make the ability better. Your post quite literally reads as "I don't like Rescue, remove it please, here's why". How about, no, stop asking to remove things from the game that you don't like instead of improving upon it and making it better for everyone.

Yeah you're gonna get tilted healer mains. All we have gotten the past 2 expansions is nothing but removal.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

All we have gotten the past 2 expansions is nothing but removal.

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I used to be warrior mains for a very long time. If you feel like your job is boring, nothing prevents you from playing something else. Anyway I wanted to know if I was the only one feeling this way and I quickly learnt that I wasn't the only one to start a thread like this. Ask yourself to right questions. I'm not happy with many things which got deleted from the game but it is what it is. Maybe you guys should start getting OVER yourselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by romah

I used to be warrior mains for a very long time. If you feel like your job is boring, nothing prevents you from playing something else. Anyway I wanted to know if I was the only one feeling this way and I quickly learnt that I wasn't the only one to start a thread like this. Ask yourself to right questions. I'm not happy with many things which got deleted from the game but it is what it is. Maybe you guys should start getting OVER yourselves.

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Point me in the direction to a better healing class in this game. I'll wait.

There have been several threads of this already, you didn't need to make another one. The answer to remove Rescue is "no" and has always been a no. The only thing it needs is a fix to the delay as mentioned countless times already.

Edit: People asking to remove things is why my class is even unfun in the first place to begin with. The problem is you for asking for removal.

[QUOTE=ASkellington;6220259]Point me in the direction to a better healing class in this game. I'll wait.

There have been several threads of this already, you didn't need to make another one. The answer to remove Rescue is "no" and has always been a no. The only thing it needs is a fix to the delay as mentioned countless times already.

Edit: People asking to remove things is why my class is even unfun in the first place to begin with. The problem is you for asking for removal.

Why does it have to be a healer ? You missed the whole point. Fact is, I'm not going to stand there, getting mocked and reading ppl like you trying to justify people behavior with "we've got nothing the last 2 expansions"

Also I'm fine with being the problem.

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Originally Posted by romah

Why does it have to be a healer ?.

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Because a *lot* of people just want to heal.

You should go back and look at the drama over HW healer DPS.

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Originally Posted by romah

Why does it have to be a healer ?

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Because I like playing healers in MMORPGs. This ain't my first rodeo. I've been playing MMOs for going on 2 decades now. I know what I like to play and it ain't tanks and dps. "Go play another mmo". There ain't another MMO out right now that has what I'm looking for that I haven't tried and even some that aren't what I'm looking for that I have tried. I'm already waiting for more to come out to leave this game if it doesn't improve.

I'm not missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Because a *lot* of people just want to heal.

You should go back and look at the drama over HW healer DPS.

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Maybe I will but I honestly already had my fill of drama for a while. I appreciate all the people who tried to keep this civil. Even though I did not/will not bother answering to everyone who's reacted to this thread, I did see some valid arguments in keeping /fixing rescue. I might not agree with everything and I still don't enjoy not being fully in control of my character but again, it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Because I like playing healers in MMORPGs. This ain't my first rodeo. I've been playing MMOs for going on 2 decades now. I know what I like to play and it ain't tanks and dps. "Go play another mmo". There ain't another MMO out right now that has what I'm looking for that I haven't tried and even some that aren't what I'm looking for that I have tried. I'm already waiting for more to come out to leave this game if it doesn't improve.

I'm not missing the point.

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You're not going to like what I'm about to say but maybe you're part of the problem right there. I also been playing MMOs for decades and I did stop playing ff14 a few times due to the direction the game was taking. I'm sorry that you feel this way but maybe if you (and other healer mains) actually tried to adapt and play something else, devs would start caring more about your favorite role. During ARR no one would play tanks. That's when they started adding mounts for tank achievements, adding mechanics for the off tank in trials and supressing one tank on team comp when it was not needed (crystal tower).

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Originally Posted by romah

You're not going to like what I'm about to say but maybe you're part of the problem right there. I also been playing MMOs for decades and I did stop playing ff14 a few times due to the direction the game was taking. I'm sorry that you feel this way but maybe if you (and other healer mains) actually tried to adapt and play something else, devs would start caring more about your favorite role. During ARR no one would play tanks. That's when they started adding mounts for tank achievements, adding mechanics for the off tank in trials and supressing one tank on team comp when it was not needed (crystal tower).

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Healer numbers have already dropped and I mainly log on to RP. The moment another MMO catches my attention I'm pretty much gone. I don't believe for a second the devs care about healers and frankly, I do hope people start lighting them on fire for the trash they've made of the role the past 2 expansions.

Plus, adding achievements and mounts for tanks still doesn't fix the fact that alot of tank duties in this game are next to one. The only good step they've started doing is giving things for the other two tanks to do in alliance raids and a few mechanics in normal raids for the off tank. Too little too late in my opinion. SE needs to step up their game.

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Originally Posted by romah

You're not going to like what I'm about to say but maybe you're part of the problem right there. I also been playing MMOs for decades and I did stop playing ff14 a few times due to the direction the game was taking. I'm sorry that you feel this way but maybe if you (and other healer mains) actually tried to adapt and play something else, devs would start caring more about your favorite role.

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I'm at a complete blank as to what the link is between healer's being particularly prone to one tricking and SE not caring about the role? I guess you are suggesting that it because it has a foundation of regular players that SE don't feel any need to spend any time on it? The problem with that theory is that I'm fairly certain that Shadowbringer's ushered in an era of SE feeling that it doesn't really matter if the end game players burn out en masse because they will always have enough fresh blood coming through to fill the gaps and at least for Shadowbringers, that was a very valid stance from a cold hard business perspective. All jobs and roles have suffered some degree of watering down in a bid to make majority of the game almost impossible to fail at. It's just that healers have consistently gotten it in the neck for longer and harder. It's not that SE don't care. It's that they don't really know what to do with the role and aren't willing to commit the manpower and resources to do better when they seemingly don't feel that it's necessary.

It's not going to take healers quitting in waves to change anything (At least from my perspective, that's already happened in long established top tier FCs and teams). It's going to take players quitting in their droves to the point where they significantly outpace new players.

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During ARR no one would play tanks. That's when they started adding mounts for tank achievements, adding mechanics for the off tank in trials and supressing one tank on team comp when it was not needed (crystal tower).

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The mounts were indeed an incentive. OT mechanics weren't. That was there because 2 tanks were a genuine handicap on many early ARR bosses. TitanHM was a great example of this at it's worst. If your MT knew the safe spot, they weren't going to die, ever. The OT offered no value and literally made the fight harder as you'd get noticeably more final phase tumults coming in with the longer time to kill.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'm at a complete blank as to what the link is between healer's being particularly prone to one tricking and SE not caring about the role? I guess you suggesting that it because it has a foundation of regular players that SE don't feel any need to spend any time on it? The problem with that theory is that I'm fairly certain that Shadowbringer's ushered in an era of SE feeling that it doesn't really matter if the end game players burn out en masse because they will always have enough fresh blood coming through to fill the gaps and at least for Shadowbringers, that was a very valid stance from a cold hard business perspective. All jobs and roles have suffered some degree of watering down in a bid to make majority of the game almost impossible to fail at. It's just that healers have consistently gotten it in the neck for longer and harder. It's not that SE don't care. It's that they don't really know what to do with the role and aren't willing to commit the manpower and resources to do better when they seemingly don't feel that it's necessary.

It's not going to take healers quitting in waves to change anything (At least from my perspective, that's already happened in long established top tier FCs and teams). It's going to take players quitting in their droves to the point where they significantly outpace new players.



The mounts were indeed an incentive. OT mechanics weren't. That was there because 2 tanks were a genuine handicap on many early ARR bosses. TitanHM was a great example of this at it's worst. If your MT knew the safe spot, they weren't going to die, ever. The OT offered no value and literally made the fight harder as you'd get noticeably more final phase tumults coming in with the longer time to kill.

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You're making sense. But I don't see how else you can protest against your role going in a bad direction.

You can’t really protest noticeably and remain subscribed. Even if you quit, they’ll not notice a drop leaving their reservoir unless there’s a noticeable splash on social media. This isn’t helped by the larger ff14 media personalities not being healers, usually tending toward tank or dps mains - although that could be viewed as symptomatic too.

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Originally Posted by romah

People like you are the reason I gave up on this thread. You're not even reading. Even what you quoted from me says that it's a PART OF THE JOB. Serioulsy who's kicking up a "royal dudgeon" here ? Are you listening to yourself ? Also I gave multiple exemple that bothered me as a tank and it's not just about losing one gcd. I'm not always the one being rescued, I also watch others get abused by it.

I'm fine with people who disagrees with me. You know that's what forums are for btw. To discuss things. But I guess it's just too hard concept for tilted healers mains.

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Again, sad that it's happening to you. The Healer forum is just...that's what it's become here.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Unfortunately that's what happens when you feel that your favourite role has regressed to the point of lobotomy over the last ~4 years =/

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I don't think that's a good response, though. Yeah, one might be jaded, but that doesn't give one the right to abuse and berate other people. Being upset isn't a shield to act with impunity.

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

Calm down, healers are royally worthless in dungeons and even normal trials, anyway and damage there doesn't do nearly enough to kill a tank assuming you actually know how to cycle your cooldowns. Using our wacky utilities is our last ditch effort to not fall into a coma mashing 1 for the 896869696859th time.

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Can't say I've ever had to abuse other players to prevent falling into a coma. Nor do I think that's an appropriate justification for doing so.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Ah yes because titling a thread "Delete Rescue From the Game" envokes discussion.

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It absolutely does. The thing is - as I've said here before - people here don't like dissent and will pounce on it. No one here wants to discuss the issue (maybe 3 of us do, the rest do not). The title wouldn't have changed that, and I think we all know it.

Some things can't be improved on. Rescue is one of them. The "moving other players" is the part that's the problem, and in the case of Rescue, that happens to be the entire ability. The only way to "fix" it would be to grant targets Hollowed Ground, and that would be broken as hell. So the best answer probably IS to remove it.

Also, each Healer had something added this expansion. WHM got Aquaveil and Lilybell, and I'm not sure what it had removed unless we're going with Thin Air (since it's 2 charges instead of a multi-GCD duration).

[EDIT: So we're clear, this isn't saying no Healers had anything removed, but not all Healers DID have something removed, and each had something or other added. Rescue is honestly one of those abilities people tell new Healers not to use anyway, and if we removed it maybe we COULD replace it with something that didn't suck. And even if we couldn't for some reason - "things being removed is bad!" is not a universal truth. Some times, some abilities ARE just bad and SHOULD be removed.]

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Originally Posted by romah

Why does it have to be a healer ?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Because a *lot* of people just want to heal.

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Reading a LOT of replies from other people here, that isn't true. A lot of the jaded Healers here want to DPS and will actively attack anyone suggesting more healing. I'm not saying everyone, but there are some that is a fitting descriptor for. Several people have even said they've swapped to playing a DPS Job and prefer it.

Meanwhile, the people who literally DO just want to heal are derogatorily called "Sylphies". If people in this forum were quick to call out those using that term as an attack (and the attack itself), it'd be far more believable that people just want to heal. Again, not saying everyone, but the collective behavior is more people want to play a Support role and are kinda shoehorned into Healer since there's not a true Support role. It also explains why Jobs like DNC are so popular with the most jaded of Healer players, since it's more the playstyle they prefer, as was ARR/HW/SB SCH.

Note, this isn't a "true healer" argument. It is an acknowledgement that the preferred playstyle isn't "just want to heal". It's generally "want to heal and also do other things that aren't healing", as the people who literally do want to heal and only heal are attacked, not supported. If you all were supporting people that suggest that, and not being so quick to shoot down more healing requirements as something the Devs won't do (when they also won't increase DPS tools, so that argument falls flat), it'd be far more believable that these jaded Healers all legitimately DO "just want to heal". Especially whit how often their preferred solution for "fun" is more DPS buttons, not more healing tools and/or healing requirements/how quick they are to attack anyone suggesting that instead - the people who actually DO just want to heal.

I just ask if anyone wants to be rescued. If they say no, its no longer my responsibility to pull them out of mechanics

Looking back on what I posted, I would also have difficulties justifying the continued existence of Rescue as well. I wouldn't want to see it go, but we do have strong arguments against the intent of the ability. Even if we are to fix the delay to be instant, it will still have the same issues that Romah mentions. This can be made worse with the issues of no communication happening. This is the impression it may give some DPS players if us healers say almost nothing to them when asked why we are yanking them around.

Hopefully this link is okay.
Tangled - Mother Knows Best - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7jWt3JvJto

Another Dark Legacy Comic on the new Dractyr Drag and Drop mentioned.
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/841

I rarely used Leap of Faith in Warcraft even with the fixed utility compared to Rescue here as well. It almost only ever got used to force a person into the boss arena when the rest of the 23 people are ready and waiting. Last time I remembered it used on me from WoW was during the Looking For Raids of Cataclysm with the Deathwing final boss. A troll priest was trying to face me to a cliff to walk off from. I used my keyboard turn to safely say no to that since a sudden mouse turn sometimes fails and still walks you off that cliff. The priest stopped trying to do that to me afterwards. I also remember witnessing a priest queued with ... a Demon Hunter DPS yank their DPS buddy with a macro saying, "OH SORRY! DID I MESS UP YOUR DPS?!?! MY BAD!!!" Demon Hunter seemed to have chuckled and called him a dork.

Rather than delete the ability, Blizzard just introduced a consumable item that essentially makes you immune to effects relating to Rescue and engineering stuff. Most times, the players don't need to use it since the priests usually forget they have it and just want to finish the dungeon. Now if I were to say if such an effect had success, the Death Knight "Death Grip" did. It kind of works like Rescue except you force yank an enemy to be dragged to you. It was very helpful due to the utility of herding enemy spellcasters and archers into a kill pile for the DPS. Of course, considering this for our Dark Knight would probably mean changing Plunge into this "Death Grip".