I assume no more tank/heals for a bit
next expac is most likely just 2 dps or just 1 dps
personally i hope its 1 range 1 caster dps to even out what we have.
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01-24-2023, 11:11 AMDuskane
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01-24-2023, 06:14 PMSeraphorI don't think we can say they've "actively avoided two DPS since Stormblood" simply because it's only been two expansions and there was a more pressing need for a new Tank and Healer. This would be imparting an intention that we have no evidence for. We don't know they've "avoided" not releasing a Tank or a Healer, simply because we've only had two opportunities and each of them needed a Tank or a Healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroman3003
Now that there isn't a pressing need for a Tank or Healer, the roles that are most 'needing' are Caster and Scouting.
And yes, they do use gear sets as justification, it was specified to be the reason why we got Reaper as a Maiming job specifically, despite the fact that it doesn't wear heavy armour and by all means could have been Striking or even Scouting. But we've had a Scouting job slightly more recently than we have Maiming. Not least, gearsets are a concern, for gearing up. Having jobs share a gearset is favourable to players so that they are able to gear up multiple jobs. Meanwhile having too many jobs on a gear set increases competition for loot. So gearsets are a valid justification for introducing/limiting jobs in certain roles.
There are many ways to define the job roles, and this seems to be intentional. Without one singular definition, it gives them freedom to be flexible.
1. You can have Tank/Healing/DPS sure. This puts us at 4/4/11, but that doesn't mean we have 7 DPS jobs too many. We all knows that's not how the playerbase has split itself and going by the jobs commonly played, there's a ratio of roughly 1:1:3 or maybe even 1:1:4, which would suggest we need between 1 and 5 more DPS jobs to balance it out. But of course, that's a loose argument because...
2. You can have Tank/Healer/Melee DPS/Ranged DPS, which puts us at 4/4/5/6. Again, considering there is a greater need for DPS than Tanks and Healers, this would suggest we're current short 1 Melee DPS.
3. You can have Tank/Healer/Melee DPS/Phys Ranged DPS/Caster DPS, giving us 4/4/5/3/3. Now we're in need of two ranged DPS from each role.
4. Then there's the gearset method, Fending/Healing/Maiming/Striking/Scouting/Aiming/Casting. 4/4/2/2/1/3/3. Now we need Scouting.
5. You could even have Tank/Healer/Physical DPS/Magical DPS for a 4/4/8/3 ratio. If you really want to cement the justification in for a Casting job.
The point is you can use any and all of these role paradigms to justify adding a job, they're all equally as valid, so you need to look further to how long it has been since a job of a specific role was last added. How long have players been waiting for a new job in a particular role?
Going with paradigm 4 just because it's the most comprehensive and includes the most roles:
Tank: Shadowbringers, 3 years
Healer: Endwalker, 1 year
Maiming: Endwalker, 1 year
Striking: Stormblood, 5 years
Scouting: ARR, 8 years
Aiming: Shadowbringers, 3 years
Casting: Stormblood, 5 years
You can give each of these paradigms different weight, and I can completely understand giving paradigm 4 the least weight right now considering that paradigm 3, the next most comprehensive, turns that "Scouting: 8 years" into "Melee: 1 year". This clearly puts Caster at the forefront.
If you go by the time since last job, the next time Tanks would be due is next time an Aiming job is due, or a Physical Ranged DPS, Both have been 3 years. Yet Tanks have 4 and Phys Ranged have 3, which puts Phys Ranged at a higher priority. This is to illustrate how you have to use both of these justifications together.
My point here is, between both role balance and time since last job in that role, at no point does Tank or Healer come up as a job in need of representation, and I think 4 of each role is a fairly well rounded selection. The only other role will so many options is the Melee DPS role, if you don't consider gearsets to be an important factor. There is no other way of reasoning a further breakdown for tanks and healers. OT and MT isn't a thing anymore, and Regen and Shield healer is a weak argument considering they can stack just fine now. -
01-24-2023, 08:18 PMForsakenRoeIDK, seems more like it's design would lend itself to being a tank. Well, to being a healer first and foremost, cos of the whole AST thing, but since we can't really do that without people (rightly) saying 'hey wait a minute, isnt this just Noct AST 2', tank it is. Some people in WOW have been asking for a Shaman Tank spec, that uses Earth barriers, since vanilla, so it's not like 'control the elements to protect, not destroy' is somehow a completely alien concept. IDK, it'd have to do a LOT of things differently if it were a caster, imo, to set it apart from 'BLM but it uses the other 3 elements'. And it being a class focused around dropping 'many Dotons instead of one' does not appeal to me in the slightest, I wanted Salted Earth gone for EW, not kept on lifesupport with the new move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
edit: also this excerpt from the wiki summarizes it pretty well
Anyway, isnt geomancy based on feng shui, the concept of good and bad fortune caused by the 'relative positions' of things? I wonder what role has a big focus on the 'positioning' of things... well, ok, 'had', before they made every boss jump middle for their set-piece attacks
Considering how BLU is now, not at all. The idea that we should accept our favorite job from previous games being in this one in a hobbled state because 'hey at least it got in' is pretty insulting tbh. Tell a PUP fan that 'yeh so PUP will be in the game, but it's gonna be as a Lords of Verminion rework, and you'll only use it once a week for the weekly challenges, then forget it exists', i'm sure they'll be delighted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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01-24-2023, 08:33 PMSeraphorAgain, you seem to be ignoring vast swatches of Geomancy lore. It is not just Noct AST. That is a tiny and irrelevant aspect of specifically Hingan Geomancy. Wider Geomancy, particularly Yanxian Geomancy, is much more different.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
And why is every caster just "BLM but different spells"? We already have three casters and they're not all the same, you can have different job mechanics.
What is stopping non-limited BLU from just being "BLM but with different spells" exactly?
The Geomancer's we've actually fought against, are all offensive casters, and they're certainly not tanks because they relied on minions to take hits for them and died almost instantly.
Melee DPS?Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
Certainly not tanks. Tanks are responsible FOR positioning some bosses, but they don't do anything with different positions, In fact, they are necessarily always directly in front of the boss, and they can't do anything to change that.
A caster with positionals, and maybe less focus on cast times to counterbalance, could be interesting.
This is a bizarrely salty and spiteful take on things.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
I would much rather have them in a limited capacity than not at all.
Blue Mage gives you the ability to set a much wider combination of enemy skills that can do much more than regular job skills can. It provides a unique battle mode that isn't possible with regular jobs.
Beastmaster could be an expansion of the Companion System. Allowing you to tame other companions besides the company chocobo, and giving you the ability to bring them into duties.
While there's certainly a trade off in the amount of content they can be used in, these are far more interesting ideas that 'just another regular job' that you only take into the latest tier raid 4 times a week. The game needs to branch out of that kind of endgame mentality and offer more options. Limited jobs are a great way of giving us addition and meaningful side content that isn't just minigames. -
01-24-2023, 09:09 PMForsakenRoeYeh, instead it WAS a job I'd take into the weekly 3 Carnivale challenges (not anymore I got lazy) and a one-and-done admittedly kinda-fun challenge to do some old raids for a morbol mount. But that was once, now I don't use it at all. Next time it gets an update it'll get used for all of 20 hours and then forgotten about again for another several years. The 'Limited Job' model is not futureproof. It's barely even present-tense-proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
Here's an idea: think of Island Sanctuary. Now think of it again, but instead of 'Island level/EXP' its 'Beastmaster Job EXP'. Gameplay's the same, it fits the whole BST aesthetic, going out capturing animals. But the fact it'd have BST's name attached would make a lot of people angry, because they wanted BST as a potential main.
And no, I'm not spiteful, I just don't think it's a good idea to tell people 'yeh your favorite got in, but at this cost'. That, and the whole future-proofing thing, imagine if we have like, 3? Limited Jobs, the devs would have to create 'mini expansions' for each of them. That'd mean more devtime spent on them, which would mean taking more devtime out of other things potentially. Not a trade I'd want to make
Oh, and as for the 'offensive caster' geomancers we fought, you mean the ones in Swallows I assume, the ones that 'summon adds' and 'attack with reskinned WHM skills'? The only thing that stood out about them was the incessant bonging of their bells, and the ones in the tunnel. The ones who use a skill that we learn as BLU, so they don't exactly have any claim to uniqueness either. Not exactly much to make a job out of, but hey, they managed to make AST from the scraps of what they tried to make into Chemist, and one single move from FFT, so anything's possible I guess. But based on what I remember, I'd argue it's fairly open what role it becomes, and I'd prefer to see it as a tank, that's all. If there's more to it's lore that cements it as being a caster, then okay. Just means the lore was delivered in such a way that it sailed right over my head, which I guess isn't actually all that impossible, considering all the 'tatame-bato' and not-Monkey-King stuff. Maybe I was mentally checked out of the Four Lords lore the whole time -
01-29-2023, 06:18 AMseolhyun
next class: caster and maybe tank
scouting merged into striking -
01-29-2023, 10:16 AMRenathrasAgreed. I wish BLU could do a bit more, but I like how it's implemented in the game. If FFXIV's combat system wasn't so rigid, I could see more Jobs being like it. Another thing is that we don't know how many things are "BLU specific" vs "Limited Job specific", since we only have the one. So having another would flesh that out, as well as give more interesting comps for some of that content. Right now, all Limited Job content is just BLUs. Sure, you can Mimic different Roles (now), but it's still a BLU party and it would be cool to see that mixed up with PUP or BSMs in there. Given the Devs aversion to DoT and Pet Jobs, it may be the only way to get them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
While the data is limited as you say, I think the results speak for themselves. When NIN was released (2.4, maybe?), it caused massive problems with que times. In SB, when we got 2 DPS, it did the same thing. A probably we didn't have in HW (when all three were released). Thing is, Yoshi P said doing three at once was really too much for the Devs, so they probably will never do that again. ShB saw Healers as the bottleneck in ques. EW didn't...really see a hard bottleneck, thankfully. Probably because we got a new Healer while a Tank Job was the marque Job of the Expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
But point is, I don't see them ever doing 2x DPS and nothing else again, unless they make an expansion heavily story and encounter based on Tanks AND Healers together. They're very mindful of things like ques and rough player Role populations for content.
We had no more "need" for a Tank in 5.0 than in 4.0, nor "need" for a Healer in 6.0 than in 4.0 and 5.0. So I don't think that's really why they did it. They added a new Tank because they wanted to try to get more people into Tanking. And in 5.X, there was a large shortage of Healers (though this wasn't new, there kinda was in SB and HW as well between the "Healers are Green DPS - GET IN CLERIC STANCE!" harassment and people in general fearing the responsibility of Healers), so in 6.0, they added a new one after saying in 5.0 they didn't see anywhere to go to add a Healer. The situation was dire enough to force their hand.
And in both cases, an attempt was made (which somewhat succeeded with GNB and didn't really with SGE) to make them more appealing to DPS players so that DPS players would try out the other Roles and hopefully either main them or dual-main into them. With GNB, this seems to have somewhat worked, as a lot of DPS players seem to enjoy GNB's (relatively) higher DPS and a rotation that leans more into damage dealing and is more akin to what DPS players like in a playstyle. With SGE, this worked...far less well, since while it heals by doing damage, it only does so on a specific target, its damage kit isn't significantly more advanced than the other Healers', and its healing mechanics are actually a bit more complex, making it harder to learn. Qatana Ravel has likely seen an early end to the careers of many a budding SGE.
By this token, we'll add one more Ranged and one more Caster and then never add a new Job?Quote:
My point here is, between both role balance and time since last job in that role, at no point does Tank or Healer come up as a job in need of representation, and I think 4 of each role is a fairly well rounded selection.
Also: Look at AIN in the DF. It's almost all Tank or Healer outside of 24 mans (which go between Healer and DPS since there are only 3 Tank slots in them) or Trials (which go between all three)
Based on that, it would seem there is not, in fact, a good role balance right now. I think the estimates of the playerbase are around 15% Tanks, 18% Healers, and the rest DPS. And even there, far more DPSers play Caster than the others, proportionately. This would indicate we should be adding a new Tank and new Healer.
.
One thing I think would be interesting is adding a new Tank and new Caster, and then re-adding Diurnal and Nocturnal to AST. That would EFFECTIVELY be adding a new Job to each role while not really having to do much work on AST since they basically would just revert it to ShB with a few tweaks.
"But then we'd have only 2 Pure and 3 Barrier Healers!"
Right now we only have 1 Pure (WHM), 2 Barrier (SCH and SGE), and 1 Pure/Barrier hybrid (AST) anyway. AST has only one less shield than SCH (Nocturnal Sect and Celestial Intersection vs Adlo, Succor, and Seraphic Veil/Consolation [which don't stack with each other so only count as one]), so per 2 minutes, AST has effectively 2 mitigations (Collective Unconscious 60 sec CD), one party shield (OR strong single target shields on people with Nocturnal Sect having a 120 sec CD), and 4 charges of a single target shield (Intersection, stacks to 2 with 30 sec charges) per 2 minute window. (WHM only has 1 Temperance every 2 mins, 4 Divine Benisons max 2 at a time, and no party barrier)
...so it's not like it'd be any worse than now, a lot of ASTs liked nAST, and it would be adding a "new Job" for the price of basically nothing in Dev time.
.
So I could see 1 Tank, 1 Caster, and nAST being added in 7.0. They did say a big AST rework is on the way as it is...which is terrifying, honestly. Caster is also the role most in need of an addition, since the last one was in SB and the number of Caster players is high, meaning they need more diversity of choices.
Then in 8.0 and on, they could just add 1 Job per expansion, starting with a Ranged. -
01-29-2023, 07:22 PMLyth
I suspect that they want to move down to one new job per expansion, but know that there will be resistance to it. I predict a magical ranged job, although I do want to see them merge ranged down into a single category. If they do this then we'll have 6 melee, 7 ranged (+1 limited ranged job). They can then just cycle through tanks, melee, healers, and ranged without issue.
The next additions that I want to see for each category are:
Tank: Shapeshifter that can partially transform limbs into weapons and shields, inspired by Esmeralda from Xenogears. Either that or a mecha-themed Puppetmaster similar to Anise from Tales of the Abyss.
Healer: A ranged healer with more of a ranged physical than ranged magical design. Perhaps one that throws potions to generate ground effects that heal. Totems? Ofuda? Geomancy?
Melee: A Mystic Knight based either around quarterstaves or whips. Something mobility focused.
Ranged: Voidmage inspired around Loghrif's spacetime magic that is DoT focused. Spell effects that let you freeze the DoT timer or accelerate them.
Limited: Onion Knight. Collect every piece of equipment in the game. -
01-29-2023, 09:20 PMRithy255They shouldn't merge ranged and casters, they don't play really the same considering one has cast times, this isn't really heavensward lol, I understand why you would be worried if they tried to add 5 of ranged and 5 of casters before adding another melee but I don't think they'd ever do that, also considering the 1% buff you get it seems really bad to bring any classic physical ranged job now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
They should balance out ranged/melee but they already do that we have 9 melee jobs (5melee/4tanks) 10 ranged jobs (4healer/3caster/3physical ranged), they've always generally had one job up-close and one job at ranged with each expansion, My guess is Next Expansion is: Tank/Caster 8.0 will likely be: Melee/Phys ranged, I don't think we're going to get a healer for a long long while due to how the barrier/pure split works currently it feels like we won't be getting a healer in quite a long time they will likely add in a pure healer and give back both sects to Astro or something, which i don't think they're gonna go back on at least for another expansion, until its been enough time, It looks like they will need the equal amount of barrier/pure, obviously it wouldn't really break the game if we somehow had 3 pures and 2 barriers but it seems like something they would think about. -
01-30-2023, 11:17 AMLyth
Let's face it, cast times matter about as much as positionals do nowadays, and neither is an excuse to do more dps. They can cross-pollinate the Ranged role actions from both sets if you like.
They'll always prioritize DPS over Tanks and Healers because more people play the former, but I do hope that they add more Healers soon. I like the role in pretty much every game that I play outside of this on, and I think the main limiting factor is that I'm not a big fan of spellcaster aesthetics. I think even the addition of a single Healer job that doesn't rely on MP would be enough to force the role into new design spaces. -
01-30-2023, 06:59 PMErinellza
Please no, we haven't had a caster since SB (BLU doesn't count because it's limited). I would sell my soul for a new caster.
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01-30-2023, 07:18 PMAyche
Time Mage.
No, not the ishgardian cone heads, the Real Deal. -
01-30-2023, 08:34 PMGgwppino
In my opinion there is no need to have a new class. I'd prefer they worked hard on the 19+1 that already exist
going to enhance the identity of the job that is currently going to diminish. First of all the healers who currently literally spam a key, the designers should finally decide if the healers are classic healers and therefore going to work on the mechanics of the raids or they are dps (like tanks) with healing and therefore going to work on the rotation of the skills currently non-existent. I would work to restore identity to the physical ranged, who currently don't actually have something that differentiates them from the other dps, I would revisit the smn well which is currently caster only on paper. I would work on the sam that has lost its main characteristic due to the broken variance of the random hit. I would work on tanks that currently have the same rotation and don't have anything different from each other.
We honestly don't need a new class. Imagine having a new caster who *has* to compete for the only available pf spot, that would just be frustrating. In my opinion "few but very good". I prefer quality over quantity. -
01-30-2023, 09:55 PMMagiusNecros
They should probably work on the 2 minute meta ass garbage they are pushing in the game instead of new jobs I agree.
But I think they only plan to dumb the game down further to the point you can set each class on a 1 button macro and win everything. -
01-31-2023, 01:06 AMRithy255I don't think they're actually Prioritizing DPS over Tank/Healer personally, The reason why theirs more DPS is because, the game is designed to have less healers/tanks then DPS If you merge healer/tank into one slot theirs 8 while theirs 11 DPS, 8 Supports and 11 DPS, which is actually pretty balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
I personally Don't hope they add in more Healers at least for a bit, I feel like healer design has become really bland, my main gripe with Healer has always been how they're not properly designed for the game currently, I don't think they're particularly fun for anyone wanting to pick them up and sure they're likely really fun in savage progression but if we must only ever have healers be fun in the hardest forms of content, isn't the class flawed to begin with? I don't want a complicated DPS rotation or lots of damage coming through so you're healing all the time with no room for DPS, but I'd like some more complexity to healers DPS spells such as procs and small things added to the DPS side, they should also add slightly more damage increased and I'd like it if they made big pulls a mix of tank/healer skill instead of your warrior pressing blood whetting (just make the heal effect single target lol), Healers should have rebalance before they're adding in new ones. I'd personally like a edgy healer myself, but I'm just hoping we get something different from your usual healer. -
01-31-2023, 10:51 AMBasicBlake
Oh okay. Four tank, four healer, six melee dps, 3 caster, 3 physical ranged.
Sounds balanced -
01-31-2023, 07:07 PMRenathrasConsider:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rithy255
20 = 8 x 2.5
8 man party: 1-2 Tanks, 2 Healers, 5-4 DPS (depending on if we're talking 24 mans or 8 mans)
x2.5: 2.5 Tanks, 5 Healers, 12.5 DPS (24 man comp),
OR,
x2.5: 5 Tanks, 5 Healers, 10 DPS (8 man comp)
20 = 4 x 5
4 man party: 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 DPS
x5: 5 Tanks, 5 Healers, 10 DPS
What we have:
4 Tanks, 4 Healers, 11 DPS (12 if you count BLU, but I wouldn't here, obviously)
By this, it seems like we need AT LEAST 1 more Tank, 1 more Healer, and 1 less DPS - if we're going with the 8 or 4 man comp - or 1.5 less tanks (I guess remove GNB and DRK and give PLD "Dark Paladin", or dPLD, stance like AST's old dAST/nAST? Would that count as half a Job...? NO! BLU still doesn't count! :p), 1 more Healer, and another half-DPSer (okay, FINE, BLU can count for THAT... :p)
So either add a Healer and let BLU count as half a DPSer, or remove a DPS and add a new Healer and new Tank. Maybe we could make DRG into a Tank so they can tank something other than floors and then add in a new healer (or nAST back, maybe?) and then we'd have the ratios right. :D
[NOTE: This post was a joke. But also with math! But also gives the correct ratios if we were going to use party representation as a ratio for Role representation. Which...would actually be kind of logical, honestly. I do agree that Healer design needs work before we touch a new Healer. Other than nAST. I feel like we could add nAST back without issue since current AST basically plays like nAST with Regen. Bonus points, an "AST of the night" is basically edgy healer for ya!
...I like to think of "themed parties", and one of those I have is "Dark/Edgy Party" which would be a DRK Tank, nAST Healer, with RPR and BLM as your DPSers.] -
02-01-2023, 12:37 AMWiccaP
Honestly I think its going to be a ranged physical that uses scouting gear. Those two typically share overall looks just recolored in gear sets, there are gear pieces that combine the scouting and aiming jobs. Balance wise, it should probably be 2 DPS if we get 2 new jobs, 1 ranged phys and ranged magic, that would be 4 tanks, 4 heals, 5 melee, 4 ranged phys and 4 magical dps. Its been mentioned by the devs that the ranged physical needs a rework as a role itself, because of changes in dungeon/raid mechanics and abilities of melee, which have kind of taken away the reasoning behind range tax and the loss of support abilities of the rphys. If it was up to me, this would be the last expansion with 2 jobs, after that each expansion would add 1 job. Like 8.0 add a heals, 9.0 tank, 10.0 magic, 11.0 ranged phys. that would bring all the job categories up to 5 but that's just what would make sense to me.
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02-01-2023, 10:39 AMHeroman3003The need for healer only appeared as they themeslves started adding a new healer and decided to split the barrier and pure healers up, as before it was a rather even scale of Pure/Barrier/Mixed with WHM/SCH/AST. if anything, it was them adding new healer that resulted in changes to their view on healer role, not their changes resulting in 'need' for a new healer. Same with Tank role in ShB. I do doubt we'll get a release of *just* DPS jobs ever again. And assuming they go by role and not by gear (which I find a lot more believable), I'd say new scouting is unlikely to happen for next expansion considering we just got a melee DPS and regardless of what their outfits look like, it will still just be a new melee dps right after previous expansion added one. VERY unlikely. So my bet remains on new Tank and new mDPS and maybe a new limited job on top. Unless they add more than 2 regular jobs, that is the most sure bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
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02-01-2023, 09:14 PMSeraphorBefore SGE, players had been screaming en masse for a new healer, and a rework to how healers were formatted. The last one was HW, 6 years prior, while Tanks only had to wait 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroman3003
For many, three healers simply wasn't enough, and didn't provide enough options, whether in terms of playstyle or job fantasy, to appeal to everyone.
I know I for one only really took up healing with Sage, WHM's cast times and flowers and SCH's pet system and fairies didn't appeal to me in the slightest, and AST was too clunky to seriously consider for a console player.
Tanks and Healers now seem to be well-rounded enough with four options each to cater to all tastes. -
02-01-2023, 09:48 PMMasekase_Hurricane
Maybe a sniper class they could fight zoomed really far out.
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02-03-2023, 11:51 PMHanayumi
A) Corsair, Cutlass + Pistol (moogle support that summon in with cannons and grenades! Seen bdos Corsair and pictured something similar :P)
B) Assassin, Dagger + crossbow, poison bolts
C) Hunter, Spear + crossbow, trap/bola -
02-04-2023, 06:51 AMSeraphor
I think an ideal candidate for an original Scouting melee job would be something based on Zidane/Gabranth's dual-sword weapons.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...ane_Render.png
I get that Zidane is technically a thief, which is part of Ninja's job fantasy, but he brings in something more with Dyne.
This could open the door for a job lore that involves Dynamis as a secondary power, with magical ranged attacks. Some similarities to Ninja in the way it moves around the battlefield, but with a selfish DPS slant.
Could involve skills such as Trance as a burst phase buff, Free Energy, Scoop Art, and Shift Break as special ranged abilities separate to main weaponskills, and Grand Lethal as the LB3.
Going by what Dynamis actually is and when it's used, the lore would likely revolve around it utilising the same sort of heated emotions as a limit break, this risky behaviour of taking damage and managing risk, could lend it the name Riskbreaker, and pull in some aspects from Ashley Riot into the mix. The 'Dyne' abilities could be termed Break Arts, the job gauge could be based around your own personal limit break gauge, and it could involve some skills that activate on taking damage not unlike Samurai. -
02-04-2023, 01:48 PMPalladiamors
There's a bit of a hint that it may be puppetmaster. In Lapis Manalis you can read about the guy who made the training puppets for the Reapers and how he eventually went off to find I think it was 'perfection' or 'beauty'. It could fit the ranged or casting style by utilizing puppet strings as a more of a mid-range weapon while giving orders to the puppet, which would also effectively replace the niche they just destroyed when they wrecked summoners.
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02-04-2023, 08:07 PMForsakenRoeIsn't that just a continuation of the 'Gridanian Goldsmith' lore, where they made a puppet to host a voidsent to have sex with (last patch revealed it was not a succubus but a mindflayer)Quote:
Originally Posted by Palladiamors
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02-11-2023, 05:08 AMMonsutaMan
I feel the next expansion, will probably be their best/better ones.
Throw some random silly/crazy ideas out there, because all of the jobs in XIV are crazy, weird, zany versions of past jobs......
DPS: Corsair who commands a crew of skeletons or zombies...with a Kraken limit break......
(Aka City of Heroes Mastermind class)
Tank: A Beastrider (BST that rides pets instead of fight alongside them)
Healer: A Calca and Brina job.
Limited Job: Mime (To add to the clown show that is limited jobs.......hopefully they allow them to do main scenario since you can OP through them anyway with Tales Journeys) -
02-11-2023, 11:16 AMRufalus
At this point I would really welcome BLU as a normal job. We're starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel regarding new styles that could be added, especially those with roots in FF history. I don't think it's an issue for one job to have an uneven progression requiring additional work to gain the abilities necessary for duty finder content. They can also just dodge that by handing everyone a special totem which unlocks all the skills needed for normal content. Those can have their own hotbar which auto-switches like the system when we go into pvp areas. When we're not doing DF content, we're able to change back to the original BLU hotbar with the spells we learn from enemies.
Lastly it's just smart from a resource management pov to expand the job that already has AF gear and animations rather than make another new job from scratch. The main reason that patches have gotten further apart is the devs reached the limit on the number of jobs and races they could support with new equipment designs in each patch cycle. I feel like the value that additional jobs bring to the game at this point is not worth a more sluggish patch cycle. There's already good variety and most people have their favorites they stick with. It may be smarter to just build the xpac marketing around big overhauls of certain existing jobs rather than indefinitely keep adding new jobs along with the associated resource cost those add to every major patch. -
02-11-2023, 11:34 AMVinal211
If you were to ask me, i'd say we have enough room for one more melee, with scouting gear, one more healer, one more ranged, and one more magic dps. that's 2 expansions of new classes. after that? it probably would be either 1-2 more Limited Jobs, and then nothing but purely focusing on class overhauls or "optimization".
now the optimist in me would love to have more than that. maybe expand the limited job thing to have something like entire scores of content dedicated to Hybrid style jobs, able to do two different styles of job simultaneously with their own unique take on it (which totally didn't start coming about after seeing Y'shtola being badass extraordinaire as a Sorceress, no siree.), but i also understand that we already have plenty of jobs and content already, and there's most definitely a limit on how many more can be added before it kinda breaks. -
02-12-2023, 07:53 AMBloodthrone
I just want us Melee Dps to get a Greatsword, then I will be happy!
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02-12-2023, 10:59 PMICountFrom0nope, can't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodthrone
That was given to DRK.
Nobody else in this game will ever have one. -
02-13-2023, 09:09 AMataren3
I would hope it isn't another melee class because we just got one for Endwalker. My bet's on a caster dps since the last new caster was introduced in Stormblood. I would guess the expansion after would probably have that "selfish" scouter melee dps.
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02-18-2023, 03:37 PMhynaku
I think A Jugular would fit for the next scouting class. It could use maybe dual sabers or dual axes as weapons.
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02-20-2023, 02:35 AMseolhyun
future predictions:
caster dps: geomancer, bell
phys ranged: beastmaster, throwing axes
scouting dps: corsair, pistol + sword -
02-20-2023, 04:52 AMDyvid
One Physical and one Caster would help even everything out. Maybe Geomancer that uses the elemental wheel concept and gambler for PRanged DPS.
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02-28-2023, 12:24 PMSargeTheSeagull
Personally I don't think a scouting ranged phys is out of the question. Might be a little weird but we already have enough melee jobs
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03-01-2023, 01:47 AMWhalaqee
I wonder if 7.0 has something mammet/puppet related.
Ameliance for her custom deliveries mentioned using aether to control mammets. Also we have the Thorne Knight boss which seems to have some puppetmaster-style aether magic in controlling other mammets and also cannons.
Obviously it and beastmaster can't be traditional pet jobs. I guess the closest way to articulate is the job is like a summoner but they have one demi-summon, it doesn't vanish after a timer, and their buttons make their demi-summon perform combo actions like it were a monk or dragoon. -
03-01-2023, 02:01 AMSequora
I’m gonna be annoyed if we get another melee job just because of scouting gear.
Melee players just got a new job. Ranged physical got a new job last expansion.
Caster is the sub role that has gone the longest without getting a new job.
To make matters worse, caster is the only role with a sub role within a sub role. Casters are basically divided into utility progression jobs (summoner, and red mage) and pure damage role.
The melee dps are balanced around their personal damage and damage utility they provide to the party. In a perfectly designed party all of the melee dps should do around the same damage as their peers after taking the extra damage they provide to their other party members.
Casters don’t have this luxury. Red mage and summoner are straight up less powerful than black mage. They deal less damage because they pay a “tax” for being able to Rez.
I would like another caster DPS without a Rez with a different playstyle than BLM. I would also be ok if they wanted BLM to remain the pure caster and give the new caster some kind of damage utility for the party. -
03-03-2023, 12:05 AMKesey
I think whatever role they choose for the new job, it will just fit thematically to expansion as a whole.
I don't think we are in weak spot to see one specific role get a few fill ins. We have plenty of variety.
Ninja gear probably needs to be folded in to aiming or striking. Given how glaming has been progressing, having scouting be the odd duck out with it's own gear while at the same time either being a recolor of aiming or striking is just wasting dev resources. -
03-03-2023, 12:37 AMSargeTheSeagull
I do think we will get a caster and a ranged physical in 7.0. I can't imagine them adding another tank or healer or melee. We just got reaper and sage, plus I think people are generally satisfied with the four tanks (rotational and cooldown gripes aside). Also we did get two DPS in stormblood and that worked out just fine. I just want geomancer and corsair.
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03-03-2023, 05:28 AMRenathrasWasn't SB the single worst time for DPS ques in the game's history baring MAYBE 2.4 when NIN was released?Quote:
Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull
I'm not sure "just fine" describes that well. It's why I think they will never add "just DPS" in an expansion until they get to where they're only adding ONE Job per expansion. The thing is, I don't know what else they'd add at this point. They just added a Healer and seem to be a bit at a loss of what to do with Healers in general, so adding another now probably wouldn't be a good idea, and arguably they felt their hand was forced; I think they said in ShB they weren't adding a new Healer then because they were worried they weren't even balanced well then (late SB) and were trying to get that fixed first.
Tank is an option, though I'm not quite sure what they'd add that would be sufficiently different. A lot of people want Rune Fencer (FFXI Tank), but there's a lot of overlap with that and PLD already, as far as how it would likely be introduced in FFXIV, and a lot of people want non-sword Jobs since 3 of our Tanks are (effectively) sword Jobs. So it's more I'm not sure what they'd add as far as Tank...but then we have DRK and GNB, which were both kind of out of the blue (as was SGE for Healers), so I guess they could really come up with anything, it's just a question of meeting a need and not too much overlapping existing things.
GNB was added so the Tank role would have a Job that could appeal to more DPS players. (IN THEORY, SGE was added for the same reason, it just didn't pan out well for that; GNB arguably did, though)
I feel like they COULD add a DPS Job, I just don't see them adding two at once unless they completely forgot about how bad early SB was for DPS ques...