What are the gods for?

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Maybe from the whole only the star or the will of it is the thing that decides what or what doesn't get a soul. So there seems to be something there pre Zodiark.

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Its everywhere but i forgot that detail lol. Ty for reminding me.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Maybe from the whole only the star or the will of it is the thing that decides what or what doesn't get a soul. So there seems to be something there pre Zodiark.

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That doesn't inherently require the presence of a sentient entity making decisions about who gets souls and when. It could just be a natural law of the universe that a being has (or develops) a soul in X circumstance.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That doesn't inherently require the presence of a sentient entity making decisions about who gets souls and when. It could just be a natural law of the universe that a being has (or develops) a soul in X circumstance.

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Oh sure, but the way they phrase things when talking about the will of the star pre Zodiark to me at least it feels like there's more to the core of the star then what we get told. I'm not even sure it had sentience until Zodiark.

Even in what we got told with this round from the alliance raid we get hinted at thar something is there at the heart of the star. That prayer goes to the twelve that later gets sent to the heart of thr star. So, even if it was a mass of nothingness or the whorl something keeps on being hinted at.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Oh sure, but the way they phrase things when talking about the will of the star pre Zodiark to me at least it feels like there's more to the core of the star then what we get told. I'm not even sure it had sentience until Zodiark.

Even in what we got told with this round from the alliance raid we get hinted at thar something is there at the heart of the star. That prayer goes to the twelve that later gets sent to the heart of thr star. So, even if it was a mass of nothingness or the whorl something keeps on being hinted at.

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Also touches on Grahas line in the Endwalker Cinematic trailer. Did he ever say it again during 6.0 in game?

My two cents
Twelve were a mere expression of natural forces within our humanity and nature/star (water, fire, moon, time, sun, will to build, will to fight, will to travel, will to love, etc).

Their forms is a mere representation of our culture and they are heavily influenced by dynamis which limit their action upon our aether composed world.

I'd sleep happy with such explanation tbh, better than anything heavily influenced by ascians..again. I don't believe they have enough time to develop past characters to make us care about their "transformation" or the consequences of their choices.



In any case, i hope they stay with us for a while instead of being discarded like a filler. I'm still waiting for some 'candy' based on our deity btw.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

My two cents
Twelve were a mere expression of natural forces within our humanity and nature/star (water, fire, moon, time, sun, will to build, will to fight, will to travel, will to love, etc).

Their forms is a mere representation of our culture and they are heavily influenced by dynamis which limit their action upon our aether composed world.

I'd sleep happy with such explanation tbh, better than anything heavily influenced by ascians..again. I don't believe they have enough time to develop past characters to make us care about their "transformation" or the consequences of their choices.



In any case, i hope they stay with us for a while instead of being discarded like a filler. I'm still waiting for some 'candy' based on our deity btw.

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Im afraid theyre gonna go the "humanity no longer need gods" despite the twelve being a widespread religion. I really hope not...But im a closet pessimist lol.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

Im afraid theyre gonna go the "humanity no longer need gods" despite the twelve being a widespread religion. I really hope not...But im a closet pessimist lol.

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Keep in mind that we generally know the inclinations of the writers at this point, and they aren't so broadly and brutally anti-theistic. I'd actually say the game's overall approach to religion and deities as refreshingly kind and mature, actually; on top of all of the extant deities we've ever met (including Hydelyn and Zodiark) serving very crucial roles in-universe to the point where their losses are/would be keenly felt, the game has a very healthy view of the importance of religion and faith in a society, while recognizing the dangers of (and non-faith-based causes of) extremism. The game suddenly going 'WE HAVE NO NEED FOR GODS, BEGONE' would be a betrayal of its long-held principles. ...as well as being really hard to do in the span of exactly one alliance raid.

So funnily enough, the question posed in the thread title has an answer, and it's 'quite a lot, actually, at least in this universe'.

As of patch 6.3 the Twelve are little more than a continuation of "See?? Hydaelyn IS good!!" writing that's been sprinkled everywhere after the base 6.0 MSQ. An unimpressive pantheon that did nothing for 12k years that factor in very little in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the state of this game's afterlife lore.

There's no redeeming the witch who massacred her own kind let alone the summoners who were complicit in it. That they got to live on as gods while the Convocation was vilified and picked off one by one is an outrage.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Keep in mind that we generally know the inclinations of the writers at this point, and they aren't so broadly and brutally anti-theistic. I'd actually say the game's overall approach to religion and deities as refreshingly kind and mature, actually; on top of all of the extant deities we've ever met (including Hydelyn and Zodiark) serving very crucial roles in-universe to the point where their losses are/would be keenly felt, the game has a very healthy view of the importance of religion and faith in a society, while recognizing the dangers of (and non-faith-based causes of) extremism. The game suddenly going 'WE HAVE NO NEED FOR GODS, BEGONE' would be a betrayal of its long-held principles. ...as well as being really hard to do in the span of exactly one alliance raid.

So funnily enough, the question posed in the thread title has an answer, and it's 'quite a lot, actually, at least in this universe'.

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Thats true. Now that i think about it in every new zone we go to beliefs are one of the first things talked about and there are quest chains exploring various aspects of it, plus a groups religious sriptures played a roll in saving them.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Keep in mind that we generally know the inclinations of the writers at this point, and they aren't so broadly and brutally anti-theistic. I'd actually say the game's overall approach to religion and deities as refreshingly kind and mature, actually; on top of all of the extant deities we've ever met (including Hydelyn and Zodiark) serving very crucial roles in-universe to the point where their losses are/would be keenly felt, the game has a very healthy view of the importance of religion and faith in a society, while recognizing the dangers of (and non-faith-based causes of) extremism. The game suddenly going 'WE HAVE NO NEED FOR GODS, BEGONE' would be a betrayal of its long-held principles. ...as well as being really hard to do in the span of exactly one alliance raid.

So funnily enough, the question posed in the thread title has an answer, and it's 'quite a lot, actually, at least in this universe'.

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I actually quite like the game's stance of religion, the good and the bad that can come off it, how it can bring people together but also pit them against one another; how it can doom some people to despair and save others from it...

I do fear Myths will end up with "the gods go away, but humanity can still believe in them." And I'd be sad if they fade away because we JUST met them. Especially with the revelations this patch, there's so much I'd like to ask them.

In short, make the Twelve out next Trust buddies plz an ty (mostly joking but wouldn't that be fun?).

It is interesting how they make religion both fake and real at the same time. Sure they exist, but there seems to be no such thing as a 'real' god. A being of supreme power that creates followers and guides, protects, and punishes them as he wills.

It is always the gods as a creation of man.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

It is interesting how they make religion both fake and real at the same time. Sure they exist, but there seems to be no such thing as a 'real' god. A being of supreme power that creates followers and guides, protects, and punishes them as he wills.

It is always the gods as a creation of man.

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Which makes sense since in japan anything can be diefied. Then again even in japan there are o-kami which are (iirc) great gods.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

I actually quite like the game's stance of religion, the good and the bad that can come off it, how it can bring people together but also pit them against one another; how it can doom some people to despair and save others from it...

I do fear Myths will end up with "the gods go away, but humanity can still believe in them." And I'd be sad if they fade away because we JUST met them. Especially with the revelations this patch, there's so much I'd like to ask them.

In short, make the Twelve out next Trust buddies plz an ty (mostly joking but wouldn't that be fun?).

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I very much doubt the gods are going to go away, not just because there isn't an air of finality about that at all. The Twelve serve a really important ongoing purpose, and there is not one thing suggesting that they intend to stop.

Deryk's whole thing does seem to be a transience and willingness to move on when it comes to it, but that's rather different, he's basically just saying that it's natural people move on and have different stories. He's essentially saying that he's only around for one questline, and that's okay. From a more meta perspective, he's sort of speaking to something Yoshi-P's said, that the game's designed so that people can just leave if they don't want to be playing right now.

The whole 'Deryk is Oschon' thing is one I feel weirdly conflicted about. On one hand, all the signs seem to be pointing there... but all those signs are actually really subtle unless you're the kind of nerd that has Oschon's whole deal memorized. I genuinely have no idea what it looks like to someone that's NOT self-selecting for these sorts of discussions, and the game typically isn't written with people like us as the primary audience. Like, is Deryk suspicious to normal people? Because if he's not then it would probably feel about out of nowhere for him to suddenly reveal himself as a god, right?

Also, speaking of Trusts, Nymeia's 'instant win if a fight lasts a certain time' isn't too far off of how Trusts actually work mechanically, so... yeah, that might kinda work.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

The whole 'Deryk is Oschon' thing is one I feel weirdly conflicted about. On one hand, all the signs seem to be pointing there... but all those signs are actually really subtle unless you're the kind of nerd that has Oschon's whole deal memorized.

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Some of the Oschon-specific hints are subtle, but I think this second chapter brings a number of hints – with no external lore familiarity required – that Deryk might be "a god", and once the monument inscription is read, it's not hard to look at the remaining options and conclude that Oschon's description fits Deryk.

I really hope the Twelve don't disappear after the Alliance Raids are over.
Would be such a waste of potentially interesting characters.

But since they are kind of bound to Hydaelyn, they might fade away just like her.

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Originally Posted by Thighland

I really hope the Twelve don't disappear after the Alliance Raids are over.
Would be such a waste of potentially interesting characters.

But since they are kind of bound to Hydaelyn, they might fade away just like her.

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Another way to look at is since prayer helps shape them it could sustain them too.

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Originally Posted by Thighland

I really hope the Twelve don't disappear after the Alliance Raids are over.
Would be such a waste of potentially interesting characters.

But since they are kind of bound to Hydaelyn, they might fade away just like her.

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It think they might leave but nothing is stopping us from summoning copies when we feel like it.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

Im afraid theyre gonna go the "humanity no longer need gods" despite the twelve being a widespread religion. I really hope not...But im a closet pessimist lol.

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I hope not! I would like to be more...cautiously optimistic lol. If they get rid of the Twelve, they will put the Scions/WoL above anything else and we may not see Eorzea with the same mystique aura. Unfortunately we have some constancy in the FFXIV lore: monarchy is bad, a republic of equals is better and democracy above all (Ul'dah attempt, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo...), such fact makes me apprehensive about Myths of the Realm conclusion.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

Thats true. Now that i think about it in every new zone we go to beliefs are one of the first things talked about and there are quest chains exploring various aspects of it, plus a groups religious sriptures played a roll in saving them.

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They handled radz-at-han perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

Unfortunately we have some constancy in the FFXIV lore: monarchy is bad, a republic of equals is better and democracy above all (Ul'dah attempt, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo...), such fact makes me apprehensive about Myths of the Realm conclusion.

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Not quite. Or rather, generally correct but the mindset at play is that things are rarely that simple. Democracy's great and especially appealing to a country trying to distance itself from an unequal past, but there's perfectly understandable reasons why a country either wouldn't pursue it at all (see: Doma generally liking Hien's leadership), would fail to transition into it (see: Ul'dah's Syndicate clinging to power), or would reject it once they have it (see: Garlemald embracing authoritarianism, although I still have problems with this one). And even when you have democracy, let's not pretend that it doesn't have any problems (see: Sharlayan).

I'd generally summarize FFXIV's outlook politically as 'overthrowing a terrible government is good, but you'd better have a good plan and alternative'. And this generally only crosses over with its approach on religion--which I've mentioned I mostly really like and respect--in cases of theocracies like Gridania and Ishgard.

I just had an odd idea.

Lets add this all together.

What if:

Lets take as a given that the gods of the realm, including the unspoken one, are members of the group that created hydalyn.

On our world we have one of them as the nameless. Watching over all.

What if every reflection had a different one as the nameless watching over all?

Mostly I just want to know... who then was the one who was fated to watch over 13, and thus can have the finger wiggled at them for failing.

Also, an even crazier idea. What if only the person on overwatch is the only one of them that's real and fully aware, the rest that are worshiped are impressions, shades, able to be changed by worship. The one on overwatch is unsundered, fully able to be themselves. Course, by having one unsundered on each shard, that's WHY there's only echoes of the others.

So the latest raid seems to imp,y the gods are around to moderate and control the flow of aether much as the ancients once did, perhaps to help moderate things despite a weakened zodiatk who was supposed to be doing that.

Leave him to keep the dynamic out while they handle all the spot gaps and functions of the world perhaps

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

So the latest raid seems to imp,y the gods are around to moderate and control the flow of aether much as the ancients once did, perhaps to help moderate things despite a weakened zodiatk who was supposed to be doing that.

Leave him to keep the dynamic out while they handle all the spot gaps and functions of the world perhaps

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That's not what the Twelve or Zodiark do as far as we're told. You're closer with Zodiark, but still not quite there. You've got most of the idea, but I'd say you're a smidge off.

Zodiark wasn't 'regulating aether' so much as just providing a big ol' coat of the stuff. This plugged the spaces where the planet's usual environmental aether was weak, which was where the corrupted dynamis was getting through. When Zodiark died those areas sprung leaks once again, as well as causing some other problems since it turns out the world had evolved around that coat being there as a default (see: Studium Fisher questline).

Meanwhile, the Twelve were regulating things, but they weren't regulating aether necessarily. That was probably sort of an element, especially with someone like Halone where her domain was purely elemental, but with domains like Byregot and Althyk they have a fundamentally different task that doesn't always involve aether in linear ways. Their task was essentially, after the Sundering, to make sure the planet and the stuff living on it has the best chance to keep going.

There actually are beings whose role is an environmental regulator, though, according to Elpis: the Elementals!

Fandaniel specialized in celestial matters. He identified that transformation events during the Final Days first happened in locations where the celestial currents that surrounded Etheirys were weakest. In retrospect this makes sense, because Aether interferes with Dynamis. Zodiark was conceived as Darkness-aspected creation magic because Darkness governs movement and growth. The original idea was to accelerate the celestial currents around the star in order to create a planetary barrier against the Final Days.

You do have to ask yourself why a star specifically needs someone to manage its aether at baseline, though. Was this also true for Alphatron or the Dragonstar? Did they have 'caretakers'? It may be that maintaining separation between the shards requires some active management at present. But that doesn't mean that it will always be necessary in the future.

As for the Twelve, we don't really have any information on their purpose just yet. Menphina and Halone do explain that prayers offered to the Twelve also cultivate our bonds with the star because they share a common link. Perhaps that redirects our aether back into the star and the lifestream. But it's hard to say for certain what the significance of this is.

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Originally Posted by Thighland

I really hope the Twelve don't disappear after the Alliance Raids are over.
Would be such a waste of potentially interesting characters.

But since they are kind of bound to Hydaelyn, they might fade away just like her.

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Ever since I read that "endured by the will of the star" phrase, I can't stop thinking about this. When Krile said "We all know too well who's that - Hydaelyn" I said out loud in my room "BUT HYDAELYN IS DEAD SO..."

Yeah. There's a part of me that's not small thinking the whole trial thing is the gods wishing to go out with a bang, doing battle with the already mythical hero who's easily the strongest person to have ever lived, having one last fun, before fading away into the Aetherial Sea.

I'll be sad as HELL tho if this happens. As an Ishgard simp, I reallly don't want their goddess to die :(

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkyllark

Ever since I read that "endured by the will of the star" phrase, I can't stop thinking about this. When Krile said "We all know too well who's that - Hydaelyn" I said out loud in my room "BUT HYDAELYN IS DEAD SO..."

Yeah. There's a part of me that's not small thinking the whole trial thing is the gods wishing to go out with a bang, doing battle with the already mythical hero who's easily the strongest person to have ever lived, having one last fun, before fading away into the Aetherial Sea.

I'll be sad as HELL tho if this happens. As an Ishgard simp, I reallly don't want their goddess to die :(

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But in what way has Hydaelyn ever been the will of the star? She was created to stop the will of the star made manifest aka Zodiark. Hydaelyn is the will of Hydaelyn. Did she ever claim to be the will of the star? Aside from Krile being a tempered thrall is there anything to back up the claim?

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

But in what way has Hydaelyn ever been the will of the star? She was created to stop the will of the star made manifest aka Zodiark. Hydaelyn is the will of Hydaelyn. Did she ever claim to be the will of the star? Aside from Krile being a tempered thrall is there anything to back up the claim?

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Good question. I believe tho that since Hydaelyn chained Zodiark in the moon, that she kinda took that mantle for her, at least formally speaking. But if we're saying that Zodiark is the will of the star made manifest then... well... he's also dead, so the implications are the same.

I don't think I'll ever be happy with the whole "the Twelve are really Ancients!" thing, but I'd laugh if it turned out that all of Krile's speculation was a misdirection and 6.5 revealed that Zodiark created them.

Either way, if we're supposed to be bidding farewell to all things Ancient, I guess it's Götterdämmerung time.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

But in what way has Hydaelyn ever been the will of the star? She was created to stop the will of the star made manifest aka Zodiark. Hydaelyn is the will of Hydaelyn. Did she ever claim to be the will of the star? Aside from Krile being a tempered thrall is there anything to back up the claim?

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She has claimed to be the will of the star at least as often as Zodiark has claimed it, and he's rather silent on the subject.

Really the question goes back further than her. What is the intended function of the "will of the star", and why did Zodiark need it to do his magic celestial barrier thing? Were there other functions he was supposed to perform, and was he still performing them in his dormant state, or did Hydaelyn take up the job when she took over as the primal at the planet's heart?

The position itself is a nebulous one, part of the vaguely defined things that the ancients did to halt the Final Days as described in Shadowbringers, which was largely overturned by Endwalker, where it seems that the barrier was the single necessary defence against Meteion's onslaught. Ultimately, for all I can deduce, Zodiark only needs to be the will of the star because the script already said that he was, and they can't take it back.

There is something in the world that decides what gets souls and what doesnt.

At this point in lore that is the only thing I am willing to recognize as a legitimate God and not a magical construct.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

There is something in the world that decides what gets souls and what doesnt.

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We don't know that. It could simply be a natural law of the universe that X happens when you fulfil conditions Y and Z.

It has only been talked about as a thing that happens, with no suggestion of a sentient force behind it.

Aside from the fact that anything the wider population believes about the afterlife is completely untrue, I think the one goddess whose adherents have been worst-treated by the information we've learned since the end of 1.0 has to be Menphina.

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Originally Posted by Firlont

Aside from the fact that anything the wider population believes about the afterlife is completely untrue,

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Wish they kept that part was keopt vague instead of spelling it out.

On the other hand, the fact the afterlife is real and measurable is very funny in a sort of 'fridge logic' way. Like, how long has Sharlayan been sitting on 'we know the answer to the most core unanswerable question that much of abstract thought, theory and religion is based around'? How secret do they keep that to themselves? Is that something you're told when you're elected to the Forum? 'Here's your office, our full meetings are on Thursdays, and here's your key to the Afterlife Observation Deck'.

I've got a video on the afterlife on the backburner (it's quite doable, but I've only got so much time in my day and other videos have proven more interesting), it's interesting that broadly, there's a few cultures that got reasonably close on how the afterlife works. The Amal'jaa probably got the closest, although their details had the advantage of being written after the Aitiascope's stuff; after them the closest is the Dotharl. The Twelve's religion somehow got the existence of the heavens right, but everything else wrong, including how they themselves relate to the heavens.

The only belief that I'd say is completely untrue is actually Garlemald's as it came up in Jullus' Lodestone short story, but it's not clear how much of that they actually believe versus how much of that was just... well, Jullus trying to come up with a culturally-appropriate prayer in about six seconds.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

On the other hand, the fact the afterlife is real and measurable is very funny in a sort of 'fridge logic' way. Like, how long has Sharlayan been sitting on 'we know the answer to the most core unanswerable question that much of abstract thought, theory and religion is based around'? How secret do they keep that to themselves? Is that something you're told when you're elected to the Forum? 'Here's your office, our full meetings are on Thursdays, and here's your key to the Afterlife Observation Deck'.

I've got a video on the afterlife on the backburner (it's quite doable, but I've only got so much time in my day and other videos have proven more interesting), it's interesting that broadly, there's a few cultures that got reasonably close on how the afterlife works. The Amal'jaa probably got the closest, although their details had the advantage of being written after the Aitiascope's stuff; after them the closest is the Dotharl. The Twelve's religion somehow got the existence of the heavens right, but everything else wrong, including how they themselves relate to the heavens.

The only belief that I'd say is completely untrue is actually Garlemald's as it came up in Jullus' Lodestone short story, but it's not clear how much of that they actually believe versus how much of that was just... well, Jullus trying to come up with a culturally-appropriate prayer in about six seconds.

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Just to add something, the dortharl got the reincarnation part right but its extremely selective. Anyone who dies in battle while a baby is being born gets reincarnated while everyone else joins the goddess (or god, i cant remember exactly).

I do wonder, for how long are the Sharlayans going to be permitted to go physically walking around in the collective soul of the planet? The Sharlayans have developed this habit of treating truths and locations that other cultures would consider sacred as their own personal remit, from the depths of the Aetherial Sea to the heavens themselves. I can't help but believe that the only thing shielding the Forum from accusations of sacrilege are obscurity and crisis.

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Originally Posted by Firlont

I do wonder, for how long are the Sharlayans going to be permitted to go physically walking around in the collective soul of the planet? The Sharlayans have developed this habit of treating truths and locations that other cultures would consider sacred as their own personal remit, from the depths of the Aetherial Sea to the heavens themselves. I can't help but believe that the only thing shielding the Forum from accusations of sacrilege are obscurity and crisis.

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"permitted" literally whos gonna stop them

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

Just to add something, the dortharl got the reincarnation part right but its extremely selective. Anyone who dies in battle while a baby is being born gets reincarnated while everyone else joins the goddess (or god, i cant remember exactly).

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I don’t remember anything about reincarnation needing to happen RIGHT when a baby is born or having anything to do with being an actual warrior. The wiki says it can happen within a year.

I can’t double-check that part with any possible Dotharl lore dump NPCs since I’m at work, but considering it was a whole thing that Dotharl who didn’t want to be reincarnated would need to commit suicide at a very specific location means that anyone can reincarnate in a reasonable amount of time after death. Otherwise they could do it anywhere when no one in the tribe is heavily pregnant or just not be a warrior.

We have one confirmed case of reincarnation with a timeframe, which is a little over eighty years (we don't know Gaia's age but we do know she's a teen). The Dotharl's cycle seems a little fast there, but for all we know that might be circumstances of where they live. Or just them getting that part wrong.

Indeed – just because we know there is reincarnation in a general sense does not guarantee that the specific Dotharli beliefs about reincarnation are true, or that they are correctly identifying the alleged reincarnations.

In the quest "Mauci of the Seven Worries" about a Dotharl who doubts he is the reincarnation of his namesake, an NPC you talk to mentions the year thing:

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Originally Posted by Kishiligh

You do not believe Mauci to be the reincarnation of a swordsman? Nonsense! There were no other Dotharl born the year Mauci passed.

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The journal notes specifically reflect Kishiligh's comments:

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No other Dotharl were born the year the previous Mauci passed, and his poor swordsmanship is not enough to convince anyone that they could be wrong.

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IIRC, it turned out that the Maucis before him all changed weapons every reincarnation so nothing is proven.

The whole "being with the goddess thing" Sidurgu mentioned came from a different quest that deals with the House of the Crooked Coin itself.

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Originally Posted by Maral

So she has gone to be one with the Dusk Mother. I have no doubt it is what she wanted, but that knowledge does naught to alleviate the pain in my heart. The House contains a crystal─a sliver of Nhaama's essence. Those who wish to rejoin with the Dusk Mother throw themselves down into the cavern there. This breaks the cycle of reincarnation. The Dusk Mother has always been at the center of my friend's life. The same was true of her previous incarnations. To think, if she had been killed together with her family, her spirit could have moved into the child my sister is about to birth...

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We later learned that this place is an Allag contraption that regulates the flow of aether and stopped it from flowing from there to the burn. So there could be something to be said about the soul not making it to the lifestream if parted from the body there.

The Mauci quest mentions a year, but the Maral quest mentions completely breaking the cycle and being with the goddess. I don't think there's nothing specifically mentioned about a time limit that if passed, the soul can't reincarnate among the Dotharl if there are no babies. Maybe the Dotharl believe they're in a queue based on how prominent they are? But so far nothing seems to contradict what we know of reincarnation and it could also be that something supernatural or just the strength of their faith itself influences to be reincarnated as Dotharl again instead of anything else.


Ultimately I like this level of storytelling where something is left open-ended. It doesn't need to be explained and it's more fun to believe in little things like this anyway. There's just enough space to have fun and come up with theories that could actually be possible instead of completely wild guesses.

It gets really tiresome when EVERYTHING is attributed to Allagans or Ancients. To the point where basically every monster and even migratory birds ended up being things other people made.


Late Edit: Remembered that the lore book exists and it mentions that it is indeed Dotharl warriors specifically who will reincarnate and that there is a time limit of a year. If no Dotharl are born that year, they believe the spirit may be reborn in another on the Steppe.