(ShB/EW SPOILERS) Why do people like Emet-Selch?

I see Emet and his kin as tragic characters, who have endured great suffering and centuries of lonely existence obsessing about what was lost. By the time we meet him he has become so warped by these things that his past self utterly refuses to belive that his actions could be real. I do feel apart of him genuinely wants us to stop him, or prove that we are not the 'inferior' species he states we are. Its these things that make him probably one of the best written characters in Final Fantasy and one of the most fascinating characters in the game. His English voice actor also deserves much credit in this regard, utterly nailing those layers.

That said, you can like villains and not support their actions. Not everyone likes Darth Vader is a fascist, and not everyone who likes the Joker is a sexist psycopath. Whilst I can empithise with Emet and his people, he still commited multiple genocides with little to no consideration for the lives lost simply because he did not even consider them as alive (racism really.) We can remember him, but that dose not mean we have to condone or forgive.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

But "his social skills were worse, so his genocide was worse compared to other genocides" is just kinda, huh, to me.

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Maybe what I said way up there was hard to follow, but Emet-Selch was worse because he didn't care about people and melted them down to make his preferred flesh suit and couldn't care less if thousands died for a spot of fun despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to his plan. Hence lack of empathy. You seem to be stuck on trying to drag the conversation into definitions of words and different understandings of character flaws and thinking that somehow that by itself makes me think he's a worse person instead of the actions he does. He does those things because of his flaws and they originated before his time as an Ascian and only grew worse.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Emet actually has so much empathy that it makes him stupid, and often take stupid actions to his own detriment, and this is consistent through both expansions he features heavily in.

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Perhaps he could have spared some empathy for Varis, because he was absolutely horrid and manipulative to him throughout those early scenes and it completely coloured my expectations about what we were supposed to feel about his true personality throughout Shadowbringers.

His character arc probably would have worked better if he was a complete stranger to us at the point where he first appeared to the Scions.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Perhaps he could have spared some empathy for Varis, because he was absolutely horrid and manipulative to him throughout those early scenes and it completely coloured my expectations about what we were supposed to feel about his true personality throughout Shadowbringers.

His character arc probably would have worked better if he was a complete stranger to us at the point where he first appeared to the Scions.

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Yeah, I honestly wouldn't be surprised that if SE had to do it all over again from the beginning, they'd detach Solus from Emet's character in one way or another. I think Stormblood Emet/Solus is hilarious and I don't mind him as a part of Emet's story per se, but you can tell he was largely written from a standpoint of not having any idea that Shadowbringers + Endwalker Emet were in the pipeline, so to speak. And it's not like they ever actually really do anything meaningful with his identity as Solus.

I think his short story mostly makes it square away with his psychology - he's particularly cruel to Varis because of his hurt after showing vulnerability regarding his son (this does not excuse it whatsoever; his treatment of Varis was indeed horrid and abusive, especially when he was a child), but in terms of the intent, it's valid to raise as a weird point that might feel inconsistent. Being generous to the writing, you could look to that moment the mask drops for a second and he expresses that he genuinely does pity Varis, but it's a bit of a drop in the bucket.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Maybe what I said way up there was hard to follow, but Emet-Selch was worse because he didn't care about people and melted them down to make his preferred flesh suit and couldn't care less if thousands died for a spot of fun despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to his plan. Hence lack of empathy. You seem to be stuck on trying to drag the conversation into definitions of words and different understandings of character flaws and thinking that somehow that by itself makes me think he's a worse person instead of the actions he does. He does those things because of his flaws and they originated before his time as an Ascian and only grew worse.

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Oh, okay. If I'm understanding you correctly, you read an excessive cruelty in his methods that you think can be traced back to an essential problem in his personality back even in his Ancient days, reflected in how he treats Hermes. I still strongly disagree with this - or at least in the way it's framed as attributed, straightforwardly, to a streak of callousness that always existed. Emet's twists of excessive cruelty aren't attributed, when all is said and done with his characterization to an intrinsic "cruelty" or "callousness" that was always there. It's something he violently, excessively, self-destructively throws himself into because the deep kindness that is the "true" part of who he always was (reflected in how he treats Hermes) viscerally can't stand what he's doing, and he's trying to shut it up and make it disappear. He's oscillating wildly between burnt-out depression, despairing resentment at others, self-loathing, and loathing in general all as parts of his shrieking copium that, yes, does immeasurable and unjustifiable harm to others. And he recognizes that on some level, and then the cycle continues.

Emet's just a great, fascinating character.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Maybe what I said way up there was hard to follow, but Emet-Selch was worse because he didn't care about people and melted them down to make his preferred flesh suit and couldn't care less if thousands died for a spot of fun despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to his plan. Hence lack of empathy.

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You think like this because you have a bias view as a person on Haedalyn team. We see the current world as people, he doesn't.

Say, if you were born a pig, would you think humanity lack empathy as well? You probably would - as a pig. But do you think most human think themselves as lacking empathy when we raise, slaughter, and eat pork? Most definitely not, we see them as sustainment.

If you think about it:

- Ancient lives pretty much forever, comparing to the short lifespan of the current world.
- They wield creation power who can create life out of aether. Emet-Selch created a freaking city bigger than any capital - by himself - simply out of nostalgia. And Venat even topped that by creating another celestial body.
- Theirs were a harmonic society that half of the population willing to scarified themself so the other half can live. Comparing to the current world where people constantly fight and try to dominate each other, even when they're already at the zenix (Allagan Empire)


Basically, the "gap" between the Ancient and the current world is almost as big as between human and pigs, if not bigger. If someone say "let's kill off the human so the pig can live in peace" ... most of us won't even turn that into the question of empathy, but madness.

I don't know it's not only Emet's fault for why Varis and then Zenos is the way they are. Varis is his grandson and was fighting his uncle in the 1st civil war. Which implies that Emet as Solus at least had three kids. Can't fight your uncle for the throne if there isn't at least two children who didn't die at a young age. And just because your grandfather is a cold callous jerkwad doesn't mean everyone else in that family has to be that way. Sure, it probably would be a rare thing to happen cause cycles are hard to break and all that. Yet we do know people who have a sunny disposition do end up in families that are cold, distant and maybe even callous to each other. That and Zenos just seemed to not even care about wanting to form bonds with his peers. Can't form bonds with others if you see the things they're interested in are beneath you or are not intriguing enough for you to try and do so.

One can appreciate good character development and want to see more of that character without approving of the character's actions. It is just a story, after all. It's not a real life dilemma.

boy, you're opening pandora's box

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

genuine question. the guy spends all his time talking about how his race is so perfect and wonderful and every other race is evil malformed subhumans and society would be perfect if only his race existed... as far as I've seen he's just fantasy h****r with a little bit of sass

the nail in the coffin for me was the cutscene in the cave where i immediately thought "well if they went as far as blowing up the planet they probably had a very compelling reason to do so" but emet was like "they did it just because they thought zodiark was ugly." without even considering there might have been something else going on... possibly related to the world-ending event that just happened

as a femboy appreciator, i can understand being so desperate for hythlodaeus that he'd commit several genocides to get him back, but at least be honest instead of the whole "i wanna kill everyone to make the world better" thing...

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Because : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0E2xaZAXoc

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The internet has always had an odd obsession with fictional villains that have sad backstories. Nothing new here.

If most of the Emet enjoyers saw him irl coming their way as he appears in the game, they'd probably cross to the other side of the street.

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I'm no "Emet enjoyer" but I'd definitely be interested in a guy with his nose in the air and wearing an outfit as silly as him IRL. Tailing would be rude but he'd intrigue more than disgust.

Man, IDK. Villains are more interesting than heroes when done correctly. That being said, I find both the heroes and villains of this story to be pretty compelling characters with moral dilemmas up the wazoo.

I don't. But I used to like him.

Then that last scene near Amaurot made me go "aaand down goes the care-o-meter". Just poof, all gone.

Afterall, if he doesn't care then why should I?

His final scene on Elpis is what seal it for me:

- Even now, I do not believe in your tale. I will not suffer us to walk such a wretched path.
- Still, if it must be said ... Do no squander it, the legacy I leave you.

I think the scene crystalize Emet's character very well, and frankly some of it can only be understood in hindsight.

He does not want to believe you, because it's too horrible to believe, that's his inner voice. But at the same time, given the event that transpire up until that point, his responsibility as member of the twelve tell him he needs to trust you. As you enter the rift to get out of the tower, the scene fade with Emet-Setch close his eyes with a smile. How one choose to interpret can be varied, but for me it's a smile of resolve, regret, but also resignation. "I will stand my ground, but if I fail, other will carry the torches".


By the way, that kind of "smile" is kinda a recurring theme in the game at the end of each era:

- Louixous looked like that when he teleport the 1.0 adventurers away before facing Bahamut by himself.
- The WOL (aka you) had the same smile when you teleport the scion away before facing the End Singer.

Up until the end of ShB we kinda assume it's the Ancient's legacy that Emet wants to protect. But I think here it's actually the legacy of all life of the stars that he's entrusting to the WoL (he kinda affirmed this when we resummon him at the end of EW). After all, accepting our story means he acknowledge that he will eventually commit atrocities that he think he never would, that he would become a "melodramatic fool" that will define the soul of his comrades, and that he will become our enemy and die by our hand. Despite all that, he still choose to aid our escape because we may be the last hope if he fails.


The Elpis Emer-Setch, will all his faculty and knowledge reject the Emer-Setch that we knew, and for me that's true Emer-Setch. In a way he's a more tragic figure than Venat is. She at least has a clear picture and a clear plan. Emer-Setch basically were bumbling around in ignorant and desperation against an enemy he never knew.

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

genuine question. the guy spends all his time talking about how his race is so perfect and wonderful and every other race is evil malformed subhumans and society would be perfect if only his race existed... as far as I've seen he's just fantasy h****r with a little bit of sass

the nail in the coffin for me was the cutscene in the cave where i immediately thought "well if they went as far as blowing up the planet they probably had a very compelling reason to do so" but emet was like "they did it just because they thought zodiark was ugly." without even considering there might have been something else going on... possibly related to the world-ending event that just happened

as a femboy appreciator, i can understand being so desperate for hythlodaeus that he'd commit several genocides to get him back, but at least be honest instead of the whole "i wanna kill everyone to make the world better" thing...

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There's a reason I called out both emet and hydalen as monsters when asked my opinion of them. Tbh, I think it's the emoness+being a snappy dresser

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

- The WOL (aka you) had the same smile when you teleport the scion away before facing the End Singer.

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Whilst I don't disagree per-se, it didn't feel quite the same here. The WoL actually said something (in response to Alisae's "No! Don't!") before pressing the button to activate the teleportation device.

Of course, we don't really know what 'we' said but the TV Tropes entry regarding that scene says this:
"Realizing that they still have the power to save their friends the Warrior of Light activates the the teleportation tomestone that was given to them before they left Ethyris, but before it can work on them the Warrior of Light lets it slip gently from their hands so that they can stay behind to fight. Worse here is that Alisaie sees them doing this and begs them to stop. All the player character can do is smile gently and tell them it's all right. note While the player character doesn't talk, their lip movements look similar to the Japanese words Daijoubu which can be translated as such."

Well one need to look at it with history in perspective... persons like Hitler was also loved and adored and had millions of fans back in the time.... it is the same thing with Emett-Selch... a crazed mass murderer that at first was popular then turned into a raving madman causing the genocide of millions.... or do the Putin reference... and methods... and as how Garlemeld ended in genocide as well with Zenos at the front.... Zenos very much alike Putin.

FFXIV very much reflect the problems in the world and drives satire on it as well Vaulthry was Donald Trump for an instance..

So I don't get why people love some of these villains so much, because they depict the most gruesome cruelties one can ever think of done towards people.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Well one need to look at it with history in perspective... persons like Hitler was also loved and adored and had millions of fans back in the time.... it is the same thing with Emett-Selch... a crazed mass murderer that at first was popular then turned into a raving madman causing the genocide of millions.... or do the Putin reference... and methods... and as how Garlemeld ended in genocide as well with Zenos at the front.... Zenos very much alike Putin.

FFXIV very much reflect the problems in the world and drives satire on it as well Vaulthry was Donald Trump for an instance..

So I don't get why people love some of these villains so much, because they depict the most gruesome cruelties one can ever think of done towards people.

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Well I mean, if you're bent on depicting it like that... I can just as easily say some of the villains of the world - people like school shooters - have their own fandoms as well.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Basically, the "gap" between the Ancient and the current world is almost as big as between human and pigs, if not bigger. If someone say "let's kill off the human so the pig can live in peace" ... most of us won't even turn that into the question of empathy, but madness.

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The problem I have with this comparison is that it's reducing a much more complex situation into a very oversimplified analogy.

Plus, Sundured people and the Ancients are just as sentient as one another and are able to communicate and relate to each other on equal terms. It's just that one group is much more powerful both physically and magically and comes from a mostly unified culture. Other than their aetheric levels and millennia of continuous civilization as a background, the Ancients themselves at the individual level aren't intrinsically any better or worse than the sundered. Emet-Selch was so close to seeing this but pulled away. If the Ancients were so much higher than the Sundered, than we as players whose own world is closer to the Sundered than the Ancients would not be able to sympathize with both of them.

The Allagans got very close to that and had 300 years of peace and an advanced magical civilization until Amon + likely Ascian involvement revived the first emperor as a madman and the war engine kicked up again to bring it all crashing down. Who knows how far the Sundered world could have gone if the Ascians worked with them like with Allag but didn't hit the reset button every 1.5-2k years? The issue is that if it went that way and there was no conflict, there would be no story and no game.

If the Ancient society itself was as harmonious as you thought it was, Venat and her followers wouldn't have separated from it to fight Zodiark and again, we'd have no story and no game.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Emet's twists of excessive cruelty aren't attributed, when all is said and done with his characterization to an intrinsic "cruelty" or "callousness" that was always there. It's something he violently, excessively, self-destructively throws himself into because the deep kindness that is the "true" part of who he always was (reflected in how he treats Hermes) viscerally can't stand what he's doing, and he's trying to shut it up and make it disappear. He's oscillating wildly between burnt-out depression, despairing resentment at others, self-loathing, and loathing in general all as parts of his shrieking copium that, yes, does immeasurable and unjustifiable harm to others. And he recognizes that on some level, and then the cycle continues.

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I think the point where we diverge on Emet-Selch's character is that I don't feel the need to justify his actions in order to like him and accepted that he's a flawed person before I went into Endwalker. Elpis gave us an Emet-Selch that is much closer to the modern Emet-Selch than Hermes is (initially) to Fandaniel. His pride, hard-headedness, and sense of duty are Emet-Selch's biggest motivators. And like I said, he has a deep sense of kindness, but it comes without the empathy required to actually understand and connect with others, seeing things in their shoes. While kindness most definitely often comes with empathy, they're not necessarily always together. You can do things that are kind because "it's the right thing to do" without actually feeling for the person you're being kind to. Throughout Eplis, Emet-Selch does kind things, but often when prodded by Hytholdeus in a way that satisfies his pride and/or relents in a way that says "oh fine, I'm the only one who can since I'm so powerful anyway".

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Well I mean, if you're bent on depicting it like that... I can just as easily say some of the villains of the world - people like school shooters - have their own fandoms as well.

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That or people see what lead up to the mess and realize the problem is still there and that those people are symptoms of bigger issues. However, solving those issues will bring up questions no one wants to tackle for various reasons. /shrug

He was kind of underwhelming after being exposed to Ardyn, the other quirky immortal goth dude with teleporting darkness powers and a tragic backstory. His first appearance was also right around when Episode Ardyn released so there probably were comparisons. Ardyn could've been better too though (unlike Emet and Varis, Ardyn got zero scenes with Iedolas).

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I think the point where we diverge on Emet-Selch's character is that I don't feel the need to justify his actions in order to like him and accepted that he's a flawed person before I went into Endwalker. Elpis gave us an Emet-Selch that is much closer to the modern Emet-Selch than Hermes is (initially) to Fandaniel. His pride, hard-headedness, and sense of duty are Emet-Selch's biggest motivators. And like I said, he has a deep sense of kindness, but it comes without the empathy required to actually understand and connect with others, seeing things in their shoes. While kindness most definitely often comes with empathy, they're not necessarily always together. You can do things that are kind because "it's the right thing to do" without actually feeling for the person you're being kind to. Throughout Eplis, Emet-Selch does kind things, but often when prodded by Hytholdeus in a way that satisfies his pride and/or relents in a way that says "oh fine, I'm the only one who can since I'm so powerful anyway".

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One of my favorite characters in this game is Athena, Mikko. And I've been speaking this entire time about how Emet-Selch is absolutely responsible for his shortcomings in communication, contributed to the Elpis trainwreck, how his abuse of Varis is inexcusable, and how the snap-back from his internal arguments trying to convince himself that he really IS a cruel person who doesn't care about others has terrible, unacceptable consequences for those around him. I'm not sure where on earth you could have gotten this read from.

No, I think the point where we diverge on the character is that we came away from Shadowbringers with a different read from his character from the start; you seem to have come away with "aha, he takes cruel actions in Shadowbringers, which must reflect an intrinsically cruel part of his personality, which must have been there all along, so that is what I will search for in his future appearances" and then worked backwards to try and force that square peg into a circular hole going into Endwalker; hence the extremely odd readings of his scenes with Hermes that can't really be substantiated. I saw his psychology of 'an intrinsically kind and empathetic character forcing himself to be cruel, for both good and very, very ill results' since Shadowbringers - that exploring the tragedy of a good person who feels forced to take cruel actions was always one of Shadowbringers's central theses - and thought almost every aspect of his characterization in Endwalker was therefore delightfully perfect. As I said, it's very easy - because this was the writing intent - to connect his scenes on Elpis not with his scenes of being 'cruel' and 'unempathetic' in the prior expansion - but the times when his reluctant kindness and when others' hurt is obviously getting under his skin bothers him because he can't not see it, can't not respond. Trust me, almost every scene in Endwalker is calculated and written to hammer home to you that Emet is an absurdly good person who feels deeply for others, to the point of near-absurdity. His last scene where he turns into an in-game advertisement for future content is predicated on him wordlessly picking up the Warrior of Light's silent distress purely through observation, realizing why, and then responding with comfort, knowing exactly how to cheer them up.

Again, if you want to use this to make a connection to his later villainous behavior, you still can. It's very easy. It's just not as straightforward as 'he was never able to feel for others' - it's actually 'he always felt too much for others.' And then he proceeded to do awful, awful things to cope with that sheer internal dissonance.

If you want to get into nitty-gritty about defining empathy again, we can - I would argue that Emet very clearly displays, multiple times in both expansions, instinctively observing or picking up on others' distress and pain and being made viscerally uncomfortable by it and responding to it in a way I absolutely count as empathy and being emotionally observant. Back in Shadowbringers, he has a whole bit of dialogue where he quite easily calls Thancred out on exactly what he's truly feeling regarding the Ryne situation and why. It just gets jumbled on the way out in terms of how he expresses it because he's a socially awkward idiot who doesn't know how to express himself emotionally to people without being a huge jerk. And perhaps you lean more towards seeing 'empathy' as an intellectual skill and a choice, I usually do not. I define it more as an instinctive emotional attentiveness and sensitivity to others' feelings, even if you don't fully know the context or the details. He's too distressed himself when he sees the distress of others around him, and very clearly "feeling for the person he's being kind to," for me to feel otherwise. Again, if you want to use a word like 'compassion' or 'sensitivity' instead, sure - but the way you define empathy makes it very difficult for me to use as grounds as 'flawed person' in a way that can be meaningful in terms of criticism of one's character, because I don't think the ability to mind-read reflects one's moral standing. (Neither does my definition of empathy, for what it's worth - as I said, that also absolutely led him down his cruel path in a painfully human way.) Especially if we're still using his interactions with Hermes as the prime example here of showing what he's 'lacking'.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

If the Ancient society itself was as harmonious as you thought it was, Venat and her followers wouldn't have separated from it to fight Zodiark and again, we'd have no story and no game.

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The point is it was "too" harmonious. This is not an observation based on real life logic, but the logic imposed by the setting. Recall:

- Even after hearing our story, Venat never actually question or decry Zodiark.
- But she actually questioned herself "why is it I found no recourse but to oppose the Convocation".

So without knowing the real detail, the idea of opposing the 14 is an alien concept to her. In the end, Venat decision is simply her retaining the knowledge. The reason she opposed the 14 because she knew it was a deadend. Even if they survive the Final Day, chance is the Ancient just head their own demise eventually like Raha (which suspiciously made to look identical to the Ancient culture and appearance). Had Venat also have memory wiped, there is a good chance she would have opposed zodiark. The whole Haedylean and sunder business all were due to her having the hindsight knowledge the 14 lacked.

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The Allagans got very close to that and had 300 years of peace and an advanced magical civilization until Amon

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You should have read that part again: the reason Amon revived Xande was because the Allagan already reached the point of stagnation and decline. Xande wasn't the start of their downfall, he was supposed to put a stop to that. In some of the Herme flashback, you saw Allagan researchers were so bored that they could only find pleasure and entertainment in the most twisted and cruel experiments. I'm not sure if you're familiar with WarHammer40k lore, but the Allagan society right before Xande's rebirth were pretty much idential to the Eldar's descend into decadent before they gave birth to Slaanesh. In fact the parallel is so apparent that I wouldn't be suprise if Allagan was written based on the image of Eldar.

He has a really nice voice.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

You should have read that part again: the reason Amon revived Xande was because the Allagan already reached the point of stagnation and decline. Xande wasn't the start of their downfall, he was supposed to put a stop to that. In some of the Herme flashback, you saw Allagan researchers were so bored that they could only find pleasure and entertainment in the most twisted and cruel experiments. I'm not sure if you're familiar with WarHammer40k lore, but the Allagan society right before Xande's rebirth were pretty much idential to the Eldar's descend into decadent before they gave birth to Slaanesh. In fact the parallel is so apparent that I wouldn't be suprise if Allagan was written based on the image of Eldar.

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Man, now you want me to see a FFXI Dynamis version of Allag where they go full Slaanesh in the dark future where Amon never existed and let them keep falling into decadence. That would be a sweet 24 man raid but in the back of my mind all I hear is "it's going to be Void Ark 2.0, lol".

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

He has a really nice voice.

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Everyone seems to say this but I really disagree. He's too high and whiny-sounding.

One thing I like about Emet-Selch is the mixture of amusement and self-disgust he shows when going against his own better judgment. Not that I necessarily agree it's better, but I definitely find the sentiment relatable. He's not my very favorite villain but there are aspects of his personality I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Whilst I don't disagree per-se, it didn't feel quite the same here. The WoL actually said something (in response to Alisae's "No! Don't!") before pressing the button to activate the teleportation device.

Of course, we don't really know what 'we' said but the TV Tropes entry regarding that scene says this:
"Realizing that they still have the power to save their friends the Warrior of Light activates the the teleportation tomestone that was given to them before they left Ethyris, but before it can work on them the Warrior of Light lets it slip gently from their hands so that they can stay behind to fight. Worse here is that Alisaie sees them doing this and begs them to stop. All the player character can do is smile gently and tell them it's all right. note While the player character doesn't talk, their lip movements look similar to the Japanese words Daijoubu which can be translated as such."

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Our WoL have a trademark shit eating grin for when we are confident thing gonna be alright. Same for Emet, he has a smug for whenever he feels confident about his odd. This one isn't it. Also, for culture reference, Japanese "Daijoubu" in some context is similar to us saying "it gonna be alright" as a "nerve" thing. Like you say it gonna be alright even when clearly it's NOT gonna be alright.


For comparison:

https://i.imgur.com/Q41KHd6.png

- Luoixous after he successful teleport the party.
- Emet as he watching you crossing into the portal.
- And you as you decide to active the teleport device.

They all share a rather distance look, and while their lip is smiling, it's not one of satisfaction. More like a "I'll try to do my best, but the rest is up to you" kind of smile.

I was always an Elidibus fan when it came to the Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

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Cause well we are fragmented shards of what we once were and Emet knows that. So of course he sees us as flawed cause we are basically destined to suffer and struggle, something the ancients didn't had to deal with most of the time. They didn't had war or much discord. No slavery or homeless. No hunger or pain. No death before you felt like it was your time to go.

And after Hydaelyn fragmented everything he saw all those achievements crumble into dust and ashes, while everyone he once knew and loved were either trapped to be the shield that protects the planet or trapped in a endless cycle of suffering and rebirth. Given the ascians caused much pain and conflict but in the end it was always "mankind" with the sword in hand doing unspeakable things. Lying and slaughtering. Murdering and destroying.

I mean how would you feel, being thrown from a world that knows no war and no hate into a world that basically is full of hate and destruction and disorder. Fueled by the broken souls of the people you loved, destined to sacrifice and suffer for a purpose only Hydaelyn knew.

Which doesn't mean that the ancients weren't flawed or that they were perfect. They simply were people of order and stability which is the reason why they were so vulnerable to the seed of chaos and discord.

In the end, what he did was in his peoples interest. The same way Ul'dah destroyed its sister state. The same way gridania sacrificed people and his elders in a blood ritual to pacify the spirits. The same way Limsa slaughtered wild tribes to get to their resources even tho they had a pact, thus forcing them into summoning their primals. Same as the garleans weren't all evil. Same as the domans had also and still have problems, look at Yotsuyu sold into slavery cause her parents treated her like she was their property. And what about you? The WoL slaughtering thousands and thousands of people who have also families and friends and loved ones?

Everyone fights for their own side, everyone is the hero of their own story. And everyone is doing cruel unspeakable things when doing so, the WoL, Emet and everyone else. And people like Emet so much or at least me cause SE did show us this fact of life with him.

All this yapping about smiling in the face of certain doom and nobody brings up my boy Papalymo sacrificing his life to give the Alliance enough time to find something capable of dealing with Shinryu.

Doing him almost as dirty as SE did by killing him off so soon after he finally showed back up in HW.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Everyone seems to say this but I really disagree. He's too high and whiny-sounding.

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He's definitely whiny in the ENG vocalization but in JP he's nothing remarkable, whether for good or bad IMO.

Like first poster say player believe in the King Solus because he promise to make chara into the mustard race from the under water kingdom Atlantis. You can not making the omelette and not hit the egg.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Everyone seems to say this but I really disagree. He's too high and whiny-sounding.

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It might not even be the pitch but just the tone and the way he speaks. It's really nice. Emet and Aymeric have the best voices in the game. Also they have nice hair.

Anyways, can I introduce you all to my religion?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1550/image.png

This is good shrine but King Solus is blood god who ruling the Underground in original Greek yakuza story so should be blood not the flower. Post when you have fix and we write in the guest book.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

He's definitely whiny in the ENG vocalization but in JP he's nothing remarkable, whether for good or bad IMO.

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He sounds like Mandark in ENG which is funny for me I suppose.

He sounds perfect in French VA

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

He's definitely whiny in the ENG vocalization but in JP he's nothing remarkable, whether for good or bad IMO.

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Consider his portrayal as a whinny character, I rather think that's ... job well done by the ENG VA?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

He sounds like Mandark in ENG which is funny for me I suppose.

He sounds perfect in French VA

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Emet: "I shall destroy this false world and bring us back to our former glory! HA HA-HA, HA HA-HA HA-HA"
Us: "Okay, calm down Susan"

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

It might not even be the pitch but just the tone and the way he speaks. It's really nice. Emet and Aymeric have the best voices in the game. Also they have nice hair.

Anyways, can I introduce you all to my religion?

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Paid-up member. :o

https://i.imgur.com/DM7XgJT.png

Huh never thought his English VA was too high pitched. Now his German VA is just what?

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

All this yapping about smiling in the face of certain doom and nobody brings up my boy Papalymo sacrificing his life to give the Alliance enough time to find something capable of dealing with Shinryu.

Doing him almost as dirty as SE did by killing him off so soon after he finally showed back up in HW.

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The thing with him is that he was entirely built around being paired with Yada at the time. With her leaving, there really was no reason for him to exist, since he fullfed his role.

Also, because he's actually incredibly forgettable. We legit forgot he ever existed through the entirety of End Walker until we went back and watched old cutscenes again. Not to mention his death just kind of felt empty to us when it did happen.