Is SE planning to deal with ilvl cheese people?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...16/dgsdgsd.jpg

This is getting a bit much

---

One word.

MATERIA.

The DC is dead, and everyone is well aware of it.

Prior to moving i sat in queue at 3pm on a friday afternoon for 2 hours for the level 87 MSQ dungeon.

If you want to experience the game, get off materia.

They honestly need to shift CT raids into the MSQ Roulette since it is now part of the MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

SE's had years to deal with this, but as far as I know, they won't even acknowledge that it's a problem. Because of this, the "solution" has fallen on the community.
If this were happening in a more toxic community, there would be twitter accounts set up that named and shamed these people and just had pictures for days of players loading into labyrinth without any gear, but we only suffer from toxic positivity here, which translates to "jUsT LeT tHe ChEeSy bOi pLaY hOw hE wAnTs" even though these people combined with the actual newbies doing mandatory CT have made it so alliance raid roulette is 99% crystal tower.

There are so many ways to alleviate this even without touching the item level shenanigans. Just give people reasons to run Ivalice and we'll see more Ivalice queues popping. When Bozja came out and Ivalice was a requirement to go, suddenly I started seeing more Ivalice raids in my roulette. Crazy. And yeah in a perfect world they'd either revamp crystal tower so its mechanics actually mattered, or they'd just add it to msq roulette so ilvl cheesers can stick us in Void Ark every day instead.

edit: Also whether the OP's on Materia or not is moot for the main point. We've all had to deal with this BS. I don't even bother queuing alliance raid roulette anymore; I just queue the fun shit directly, because it's almost never good raids anymore. Sometimes I literally queue alliance raid roulette before bed, and if it's a CT with no first timers I just drop and go to bed. Enjoy your free ticket out, everyone else. This one's on me.

---

Unless something has changed, no one loads in without any gear on. You can take your gear off, queue, then re-equip everything since the DF queues you based on your ilevel at the time of entering the queue, not any time after. So people will be loading in with full gear and there is no way to know who if anyone manipulated their ilevel. Since CT is now part of the MSQ requirement though I do think it isn't a bad idea to just move them into the MSQ roulette and keep the alliance roulette as all the others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...16/dgsdgsd.jpg

This is getting a bit much

---

Wait Time: 600m.

...That's 10h.

...

THAT'S A LOT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Neither will ever happen, especially the 90 separation. People queue those independently for their tomestones and whatever loot they might need.
You can't split off crystal tower and call it a roulette. People would likely avoid it, defeating the purpose of a roulette. You would just end up re-creating the original problem where people ilvl cheat for Dun Scaith. Of course, you also find people naturally under 70 looking for xp.

People simply need to accept the situation for what it is and adjust their play because there's no simple or definitive "fix" for this "problem"

---

Almost like a lot of Dungeons are scaled off based by level hmm? Not like we have experts, leveling, MSQ, 90's, and 50-80's It's already something that the devs consider for dungeons if you had one roulette for dungeons the queue times would be very slow for DPS.

People will still queue for different Araids if the reward is good enough, right now the rewards are pretty bad considering how much experts already give you when you got a job at 90, seperating them just gives more people more to queue for, more options, not like you can generally up the rewards depending on duty, Araids that aren't the 50's should give a lot more then they do considering the time investment.

Theirs zero incentive to queue for the current 90's araids, now unless you need "glam" reasons or first try because you can just buy better raid gear, so the content becomes useless very quickly.

Maybe you've just accepted it doesn't mean the community can't want better for the games "rewards". I personally believe it's a way better system to incentivise playing older content more instead of just accepting that q times are going to be bad for people's first times or if they want something from a raid.

If they didn't want iLv cheese to be as prolific as it is then perhaps they would have the common courtesy of rebalancing the older alliance raids in accordance to be consistent across the board.

Similarly, maybe they shouldn't tie so much of the relic to a particular alliance raid then people wouldn't feel further inclined to cheese it.

To put it into perspective... Why on earth would people draw from the whole set of alliance raids, when they can not only progress ShB relics, but also get the exp gain from it being a roulette?

Why would people feel inclined to draw from a whole set of alliance raids, when the disparity of time taken on ARR/HW alliance raids is around 14 minutes versus the typical 25-30 minutes on the average group for SB raids?

As far as I am concerned; they don't need to do anything regarding this stunt, they need to resolve it at the source of the problem, which stems from the balance between all the alliance raids, and similarly their elected decision making to have the ShB relics so deeply rooted in the ARR alliance raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

As far as I am concerned; they don't need to do anything regarding this stunt, they need to resolve it at the source of the problem, which stems from the balance between all the alliance raids, and similarly their elected decision making to have the ShB relics so deeply rooted in the ARR alliance raids.

---

This. This was a dumb decision on their part from the get go. CT raids shouldn't be apart of any relic save its own (ARR) and maybe HW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Similarly, maybe they shouldn't tie so much of the relic to a particular alliance raid then people wouldn't feel further inclined to cheese it.

---

At that point it won't just be the CT raids, but the Ivalice raids too. CT's just easier to cheese because ilv caught up with it long ago, Ivalice is still kicking some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Theirs zero incentive to queue for the current 90's araids, now unless you need "glam" reasons or first try because you can just buy better raid gear, so the content becomes useless very quickly.

---

There's so much wrong with what you're saying. I'll quickly respond to this. The incentives to continue to do 90 Aglaia and future current alliances is tomes, spiritbond and weekly coins which will be needed to upgrade tomestone gear. When the next alliance drops, we'll need coins from that and Aglaia to upgrade lunar envoy gear to 630. When the 3rd drops, it will take coins from all 3. Bank now and farm less later. ;)

So would people prefer if the alliance roulette requirements changed based on the level of the job played meaning you cannot queue the roulette unless you've unlocked all raids you meet the level requirement for and also meet the ilvl requirements for the highest level raid your job qualifies for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

There's so much wrong with what you're saying. I'll quickly respond to this. The incentives to continue to do 90 Aglaia and future current alliances is tomes, spiritbond and weekly coins which will be needed to upgrade tomestone gear. When the next alliance drops, we'll need coins from that and Aglaia to upgrade lunar envoy gear to 630. When the 3rd drops, it will take coins from all 3. Bank now and farm less later. ;)

---

Why have 100 purple tomes for something that takes so long, compared to something such as a Level 90 dungeon that gives you 1. 80 purple tomes (only 20 less for a much shorter time) 2. the new raids only give you 20 green tomes, considering experts give more then double that, the existence of tomes in those raids are very very meaningless this is without selecting the dungeons as a expert roul because there wouldn't even be a contest then, Up the rewards and you might have a point for my "seperate 90's araids" argument, but it still stands that araids has just become "level 50 raids" because of how it rewards players quicker for having no gear and qing up for them. even if 90's gave some amazing reward it wouldn't make it good for all the other raids waiting times.

So you're saying wait until 6.3 until the content becomes useful again, nice until 6.4 comes out. It's not a good system in my opinion.

Guess I'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Nothing is really broken, so there's nothing to fix. There are player choices that affect the roulette. As others have noted, ilvl cheese was just a part of it. They also include not unlocking the optional tiers and generally staying away from the roulette. There are other ways to earn tomestones and xp.

---

The main reason for the roulettes to exist is to make certain players who are doing content for the first time get matched to a party.

This is true of Sky Pirates, Ivalice, Yorha and Myths as much as it is for CT. There are players who want to be doing those raids for the first time. Sky Pirates and Ivalice are now gatekeeping access to other content. Myths probably also will at some point in the future (I doubt Yorha would because it just doesn't fit into the FFXIV universe).

CT being part of the Alliance roulette is holding back party matching for the first timers to the other raids at this point because it's the only common denominator. Telling people "don't do the roulette" doesn't help get those groups formed for first timers created.

Pulling CT out of the Alliance roulette is the best solution. If they think it will work with MSQ roulette, great. If not, give it a separate roulette.

Maybe there just not many that raid anymore is why the queues is so long. Once you get all your jobs to level 90 there no point to earn xp anymore. Maybe increase the gil rewards or give items out for special items for those that is max level. Maybe then your raid queues might be lower. I hardly ever run alliance raids there's no point. I can the get tomes from running msq roulette and beast tribe to cap. I don't think there is many that unequip gear to get CT raids. I have only seen couple times ones with no gear on when enter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

If you take off all your gear before queuing for alliance raid your ilvl becomes too low to queue into anything but the crystal tower series

---

Wait, if you take all your gear OFF? I assumed they just swapped to gear with a lower iLevel. Why the heck are you even allowed to queue for a roulette with empty gear slots!? In my opinion you should be able to queue if and only if you are fully geared with equipment that has the appropriate stats for your current job/role. That way, at least the people trying to cheese the system are hassled with the burden of bags/armory full of weak/redundant gear for each job they want to cheat with. Surely Squeenix can manage to implement a check for this, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanayumi

They should just move tower raids into the main story roulette at this point.

---

Hmm, maybe... but then what I fear is the exploiters would all bandwagon over to MSQ Roulette, and then if they actually get something like Praetorium they will immediately leave. We JUST finally arrived at a place where newbies experiencing the climax of the ARR story don't have to suffer a toxic fustercluck nightmare that makes them want to quit the game. Can we please not shovel our Alliance Raid problems down the hill and onto them?

I would be more a fan of adjusting and restoring Crystal Tower content to actually represent the challenge level it was meant to be when it launched, so that mechanics aren't skipped and we can actually see what the bosses are meant to be like.

https://i.imgur.com/O3NUP8l.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erinellza

I didn't even know this was a thing, TIL. But I'm actually happy when I get CT raids because why would I prefer a 40+ min raid when I get the same daily rewards for a 20 min one? There are some serious raid balance issues imo.

---

Easy solution then
Make it like MSQ roulette used to be
Crystal tower raids give the least exp, and the others give more depending on length

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimmi

Easy solution then
Make it like MSQ roulette used to be
Crystal tower raids give the least exp, and the others give more depending on length

---

They should just make Crystal Tower a solo duty with Trust.
Since its required for MSQ just make it MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...16/dgsdgsd.jpg

This is getting a bit much

---

Question, was this on prime time. Like if you play when everyone is asleep anyways ofc you won't find any group for high end content.

Second question, have you tried not playing damagedealer?

Third question, might i inform you that stuff like..."friends" and "partyfinder" exists?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

Question, was this on prime time. Like if you play when everyone is asleep anyways ofc you won't find any group for high end content.

Second question, have you tried not playing damagedealer?

Third question, might i inform you that stuff like..."friends" and "partyfinder" exists?

---

DPS have good queues in alliance raids specifically because of the special party composition. 5 out of 8 players are dps instead of the regular 4 out of 8.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renalt

They honestly need to shift CT raids into the MSQ Roulette since it is now part of the MSQ.

---

And that has the issue, all the other MSQ duties are 4man now. 24man is on that suddenly a bit excessive.

As quickest fix i would say they just need to set the max ilvl for the raid to be significantly lower so these raids automaticly become more difficult (even without rework). Even if these raids remain easier, if time wise they arent the fastest anymore, it is a massive improvement since it rewards going for the more difficult ones.

But i think that ilvl cheese even in that case should still be handled. Since people who used to do this wont change (even if a duty takes longer, the convenience of mindless playing can still do a lot). And for this, they should adjust the rewards:
ilvl below 270 only poetics, below 400 also only poetics but a higher value, between 400 and 589 (basicly only missing the EW raids) poetics and red tomestones, above 590 get both red and green.

The 50 and 60 raids will still be the most common after changing this (because f2p), but instead of just 3, we then at least have 6 options for variety.

People removing piece of gear to mess with the raiding system just to do the fastest raids available ? That's a new one, but don't underestimate's lazyness creativity when it comes to just profit from a system.

They have the capability to set an ilvl for players like in PvP, just have these raids scale them up similarly when someone is too low ilvl.

From there, raid eligbility can be determined by player level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Item level cheese isn't the problem.

The problem is that out of 24 players matched in the group, there's a high probability that one of those players is leveling a job under level 60, doing the mandatory CT requirement for MSQ or has never unlocked any of the other Alliance raids.

What SE needs to do is move the 3 CT raids into their own roulette. It's not going to disrupt game balance to add another roulette so players can get bonus XP for jobs they're leveling while separating the one thing that's keeping the Alliance Raid roulette from behaving like an actual roullette instead of a coin toss.

---

"Story Alliance Raids" and "Alliance Raids" - Where the latter gives significantly higher exp than the former.

Nothing anyone has suggested doesn't create another potentially worse problem.

They just need to fix the ARR raids eventually. Add a minion or something while they do it so people won't feel so raw about the raids not being fast faceroll any more and mechanics actually happening. Make them in line with the alliance raids from the expansions in length and difficulty, bit easier maybe. Change the Atomos mechanic to not need 4 people on the button. Conversely the Binding Coil gets nerfed and put in the normal raid roulette finally.

Why the hell would they make you use a coin from each of the three ARs to upgrade tomestone gear? Don't recall them doing this previously.

And my roulette has very predictably been wiping city unless we got a lvl 50-59 in my group (I do rouls as a party of three).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

They just need to fix the ARR raids eventually. Add a minion or something while they do it so people won't feel so raw about the raids not being fast faceroll any more and mechanics actually happening. Make them in line with the alliance raids from the expansions in length and difficulty, bit easier maybe. Change the Atomos mechanic to not need 4 people on the button. Conversely the Binding Coil gets nerfed and put in the normal raid roulette finally.

---

Upping the difficulty just opens things up to more potential wipes. It's the first set of alliance raids, so it's going to say as easy as it is. They already did some modifications, changing up the markers a bit, so I doubt they're touching them ever again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Why the hell would they make you use a coin from each of the three ARs to upgrade tomestone gear? Don't recall them doing this previously.

And my roulette has very predictably been wiping city unless we got a lvl 50-59 in my group (I do rouls as a party of three).

---

It's one of the casual alternatives to getting the upgrade drops from savage. The other route is hunt currency.

I wanna say it's been done since Heavensward. There were 3 mhachi coins back then. I know it was definitely done in Shadowbringers (with 3 different puppet's coins) and it just started up again with Endwalker. x.1 is one coin for one item, x.3 will be two coins and x.5 will be three. I'm banking til they drop the next raid, then I'm done with Aglaia. ;)

In my experience the ilvl cheese happens often but i also do understand i cannot expect higher level alliance raids due to CT became an obligatory content.

Lack of diversity in duties popped in the alliance roulette prove that people DO not know mechanics in raids other than CT due to leaving the party as soon as they in (most prominent in orbonne monastery) or straight up do not know mechanics causing wipes which is frustrating.

I think that to deal with the cheese in particular they could introduce „dynamic” ilvl requirement for the roulettes. What i mean is that for alliance roulette if you are on lvl 90 class you would have to have a gear that matches for example lowest ilvl you can obtain on lvl 90 job or gear that would match minimal ilvl for first raid on the tier. you swap out to your lvl 73 job? the ilvl requirement is lowered to ilvl obtainable at level 70 (either lowest for that level or min ilvl for ivalice 1) - something alike how dynamically the tombstone reward change when you swap out from lvl 90 job (changing the rewards from currently relevant tombstones to poetics). This would of course not guarantee you don’t get CT on higher level job (60+) but at the same time if there is enough people queued on higher level jobs the algorithm would have 6,9 or (currently) 10 duties to chose from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Pulling CT out of the Alliance roulette is the best solution. If they think it will work with MSQ roulette, great. If not, give it a separate roulette.

---

There's probably some weird code issue that prevents mixing 24-man and 4-man duties. Heck you can only queue for one roulette at a time. Yes Mentor Roulette can land you in anything but I believe that's solo queue only which makes it a hell of a lot easier to distribute people to matches in need.

A separate CT only queue won't really solve the problem. Chances are that it would need a pretty hefty incentive just so those stuck on the mandatory step can get past it. And if it's that good then it becomes a must-do roultette.

The problem is that mandatory step and one that I'm sure their story team regrets deeply. Wouldn't surprise me to see the CT raids retired and replaced by single person duties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

There's probably some weird code issue that prevents mixing 24-man and 4-man duties. Heck you can only queue for one roulette at a time. Yes Mentor Roulette can land you in anything but I believe that's solo queue only which makes it a hell of a lot easier to distribute people to matches in need.

A separate CT only queue won't really solve the problem. Chances are that it would need a pretty hefty incentive just so those stuck on the mandatory step can get past it. And if it's that good then it becomes a must-do roultette.

The problem is that mandatory step and one that I'm sure their story team regrets deeply. Wouldn't surprise me to see the CT raids retired and replaced by single person duties.

---

A new roulette with a good reward sounds like a decent solution to me. Then I can finally enjoy some CT raids without always being pushed to the other alliance roulette by ilvl cheesers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...16/dgsdgsd.jpg

This is getting a bit much

---

10 to 1 the new manderville relic will require extra special super duper radioactive thingamobobs from the nier raids. Don't worry the queue will fill up real fast soon.

Ye this is total BS. No one ever join by pf as well. At this point just delete the old 24 man raids and add the gear it drops as glams in the GC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That picture proves nothing because I get the alliance raids from all expansions at equal frequency when I queue.

You are on Materia, right? The data center that everyone says is dead?

---

You get all raids at equal frequency? Don't BS people please. I run it each day or so and in all of 6.x I did not get any thing but the tower ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I would be more a fan of adjusting and restoring Crystal Tower content to actually represent the challenge level it was meant to be when it launched, so that mechanics aren't skipped and we can actually see what the bosses are meant to be like.

https://i.imgur.com/O3NUP8l.jpg

---

I agree. I don't understand why the cap is so ridiculously high. All it does is that it leads to boring, unengaging gameplay. I'd rather have a fun run than a fast one. I don't play to be bored.

Ideally I just want Crystal Tower raids retuned so they can't be face rolled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

I agree. I don't understand why the cap is so ridiculously high. All it does is that it leads to boring, unengaging gameplay. I'd rather have a fun run than a fast one. I don't play to be bored.

---

But you pay to be bored

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGrimace

Ideally I just want Crystal Tower raids retuned so they can't be face rolled.

---

Then you'll have another 500 threads from the same 20 or so ppl pretending to be the majority crying that they're being "gated out of content" because they need to learn mechanics... just like with steps of faith when HW launched and shinryu normal with stormblood launched. They even did it to solo MSQs like the Lakshmi solo msq...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

10 to 1 the new manderville relic will require extra special super duper radioactive thingamobobs from the nier raids. Don't worry the queue will fill up real fast soon.

---

Then that's the player's choice to continue doing the grind instead of saying "this isn't fun to me, the reward isn't worth it in the end".

I've been playing this character for 6 years now. I've got 2 completed relics because I wanted to see what the stories were like. After both experiences were more annoying than entertaining, I stopped doing relics and started going to YouTube to see the story. There are plenty of shiny weapons in the game that aren't locked behind the relic grind that players can get if they don't enjoy the process.

I mean, since the crystal tower raids are now mandatory, there are going to be people who will need to do it to continue their story, or else they can't go forward, so it's not a new thing that other raids tend to be less populated when there is one that is actually required for story progression.

If only there was a roulette specifically made for main story quest...a Main Scenario Roulette, if you will, maybe it might help out with the cheese.

Wait a second...

Even if they fixed ilevel cheese, there's not much that can be done about people who don't unlock further raids. As other have suggested, spinning the optional alliance raids out into another roulette with its own separate rewards might help.

Honestly I always find it a pleasant surprise when it's not something from the CT series. In fact, I even find it a pleasant surprise when there's someone new in the raid when it is CT.

They drop the ilv sync in CT and I bet you it'd show up a lot less in roulette.
LotA to i80.
ST to i100.
WoD to i120.

That'd force it to feel more like the later raids and assault people with mechanics not seen since 2.4.