Island Content Gated behind Expertise Crafts

I haven't started IS yet and the longer it goes on the less I want to do it. It seems like if you haven't already maxed everything out by now don't bother, no one is going to be worrying about it next week anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

There is little else said regarding aesthetics outside IS after rank 10. Only the impression that there will be follow up content for the Island. Who's to say that the fountain doesn't play any part in progression further past rank 10?

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It won't. They're not going to require players to become crafters or pay other crafters millions of gil to progress in island Sanctuary.

The fountain is a vanity item, pure and simple. If it was going to be required, it would have been given a dedicated landmark spot and would need Island materials instead of forcing players to pick a landmark to replace and going to an outside crafter to get it.

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Originally Posted by anna-steele

what mats are needed to craft these?

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Hardware - I Igneous Glioaether (from Sublime mining), 2 Bismuth Ore, 1 Phrygian Gold Ore, 10 clusters (which varies depending on DoH class used)
Lumber - 1 Verdurous Glioaether, (from Sublime botany) 1 Red Pine Log, I Snow Flax, 1 Saiga Hide, 10 clusters (varies again)
Resin - 1 Aqueous Glioaether (from Sublime fishing - rare compared to the other two), 1 Dynamite Ash, 1 Sideritis Leaves, 10 clusters (varies again)

You need 2 of each part but success cannot be guaranteed due to the RNG. If you're asking someone else to make them for you, expect them to request at least 6 times the quantities listed if not more.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I haven't started IS yet and the longer it goes on the less I want to do it. It seems like if you haven't already maxed everything out by now don't bother, no one is going to be worrying about it next week anyway.

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I don't follow... What does everyone else's progress have to do with anything? (aside from the initial congestion being gone)

Frankly, anyone is better off having waited to begin because so much info is now available so you can plan and decide how you approach it.

This whole thread...... While thee costs on NA/EU servers are silly, its first week, give it time will cost nothing.

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Originally Posted by Amelimie

This whole thread...... While thee costs on NA/EU servers are silly, its first week, give it time will cost nothing.

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Cheaper yes but I don't know about nothing. The materials are kinda difficult to get with a lot of RNG involved. You have to use aetherial reduction on the new sublime nodes they added and get lucky.

I have been crafting and gathering the items, the fishing one yea small window. other 2 easy. The actual crafts are hard. On my server 500k for crafted item, 1m for fishing item one and dropping in price fast.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

It's just aesthetics. It's inconsequential. You don't have to build the fountain to achieve anything.

You're really hell bent on finding excuses to not like this. Why? That's a rhetorical question, but answer it for yourself anyway. People are enjoying this fun new feature and you're trying to drag others down into whatever is going on in your mind. It's sad. Something else must be going on in your life that we don't have to get into, but man... figure it out.

It's just an optional feature in a game. It's also adorable af :cool: You're getting mad over otters.

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What's sad is people like yourself laboring under the delusion that everyone should find the new browser game as awesome as you do. The only reason I'm doing it at all is to eventually get the stuff I want from the blue vendor. The actual "content" itself is a joke and I plan to spend as little time there as possible.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

What's sad is people like yourself laboring under the delusion that everyone should find the new browser game as awesome as you do. The only reason I'm doing it at all is to eventually get the stuff I want from the blue vendor. The actual "content" itself is a joke and I plan to spend as little time there as possible.

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I never said anyone should find it awesome. Perhaps I noted that some people -do- enjoy it. It's not the same. The only kind of encouragement I've ever offered with regard to IS is to simply take it slow.

I -have- noted the extremes to which people dislike optional content. I frankly don't care where you spend your time. Do what you like, but when you come crying and wailing about lies that never came from devs or people named Dev, you can expect a response.

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Originally Posted by AlaineIV

I thought that island content was supposed to be completely seperate and not requiring DoH or DoL for the island. However if you get the island to rank 10 and complete the final mission as well as have everything upgraded to rank 3 and all the land marks posted you get the permit for the Water Odder Otter Fountain for the Land marks, however, it is locked behind expert crafts behind DoH outside of the Island. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it stated that DoH and DoL was not required for all island content. If you don't have it the cost of the materials needed for the permit range from 12 million to 15 million gil pending the server.

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No one needs that item so who cares? Apparently a lot of people and it makes me laugh. I have a maxed crafter/gatherer and won't even bother crafting it for myself, only for gullible people.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Do what you like, but when you come crying and wailing about lies that never came from devs or people named Dev, you can expect a response.

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And where did I ever say anything about lies from the devs? Oh that's right, I didn't. I just expressed my opinion.

It never should have been. It's an Island thing, it should have been earned via the Island. Not something else.

SE should 100% be called out for doing it, because it sets the precedent that future stuff for the Island can be gated behind Expert Crafts.
Not everyone enjoys Expert Crafting.
Not everyone should be forced into shelling out millions of gil for stuff like this.

Give Expert Crafters something else to sell for their gil. Or let them earn gil like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're going to have a very long wait if you think better gear is the solution.

Most don't understand just how difficult these recipes are even with current BiS pentamelding. There's very heavy RNG so you can't just macro them like people are doing with the recipes for the 610 gear. There are no HQ materials to make them easier. Failure rates are high. Shadowbringers Expert recipes were very forgiving in comparison.

If you want the fountain sooner not later but can't make the items yourself and don't want to pay full marketboard prices, look at the Maker's Signature on the parts already on the marketboard. Those are crafters that have proven they're able to get at least occasional success. Maybe they'll work out a deal with you, maybe not. It's probably still going to end up costing you more than you want to pay.

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Well, I was thinking along the lines of having to wait an expansion anyway when I made that comment since we only got like one more crafting gear upgrade if I recall my patch timeline correctly. Friend of mine did refer me to someone who was crafting them on commission and the crafter told me it's basically a 50/50 whether you craft it or not and that the amount of mats I'd prepared beforehand was basically incredibly optimistic, so I feel like I've been suitably enlightened towards Expert Crafts. Reminds me of Heavensward-era crafting since I think I recall an incident where I'd asked an omnicrafter to craft some crafted green armor from my mats back then and RNG basically just decided "lolno" on one of them, iirc anyway. 8 mil was a decent deal for now though if prices on Universalis are up to date (rounds out to something like 13-14 mil-ish, I think). Even knocked a mil off from my mats.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Has anyone tried to confirm if the fountain is unique so we'd be limited to one per island?

Because if we can have multiple, I'll have a hard time choosing between selling my extra parts or using them to make more fountains for my island. They look so much better than the other landmarks.

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You turn in mats for a permit, the permit unlocks the ability to make the fountain at a landmark location, and from the looks of it, you can have multiple of them. It gives you the option to reconstruct further landmarks into it anyway, I don't have enough alyssum on hand to actually confirm whether it lets you or not.

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Originally Posted by AlaineIV

I thought that island content was supposed to be completely seperate and not requiring DoH or DoL for the island. However if you get the island to rank 10 and complete the final mission as well as have everything upgraded to rank 3 and all the land marks posted you get the permit for the Water Odder Otter Fountain for the Land marks, however, it is locked behind expert crafts behind DoH outside of the Island. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it stated that DoH and DoL was not required for all island content. If you don't have it the cost of the materials needed for the permit range from 12 million to 15 million gil pending the server.

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It makes those clases useful. What is the issue?

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

It makes those clases useful. What is the issue?

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I'm an omnicrafter, but I still would have preferred to have the island be 100% self-sufficient. Take out the green cowrie items if people are having issues with that crossover into the "outside" world as well.

I personally don't consume a lot of FF news, although I will typically catch a LL now and then. The slides they showed in the LL made it seem like it would be completely solo play and you could do everything on your own, without the need of DoH/Dol jobs, and I think a lot of people were looking forward to that.

Now obviously there were other interviews, such as the one posted earlier in this thread, and they did expand a bit on IS and hinted that outside help would be needed at higher levels. So as far as the advanced warning, it was there, if you saw that interview (I didn't until now).

But with all that said, this was still SE's choice in how they designed the entire thing. Island Sanctuary very easily could have been 100% solo play, no DoH/L required as the slides make it seem. Why did they need to involve the DoH/L jobs? Do we not get enough fun making bank off of people leveling jobs, raiding, glam items & new patch gear? Why did they feel the need to link this insanely casual content to crafters as well?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'm an omnicrafter, but I still would have preferred to have the island be 100% self-sufficient. Take out the green cowrie items if people are having issues with that crossover into the "outside" world as well.

I personally don't consume a lot of FF news, although I will typically catch a LL now and then. The slides they showed in the LL made it seem like it would be completely solo play and you could do everything on your own, without the need of DoH/Dol jobs, and I think a lot of people were looking forward to that.

Now obviously there were other interviews, such as the one posted earlier in this thread, and they did expand a bit on IS and hinted that outside help would be needed at higher levels. So as far as the advanced warning, it was there, if you saw that interview (I didn't until now).

But with all that said, this was still SE's choice in how they designed the entire thing. Island Sanctuary very easily could have been 100% solo play, no DoH/L required as the slides make it seem. Why did they need to involve the DoH/L jobs? Do we not get enough fun making bank off of people leveling jobs, raiding, glam items & new patch gear? Why did they feel the need to link this insanely casual content to crafters as well?

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Yeah, when I first head about IS I saw it as something I wouldn't be able to do, because I don't have any crafters/gatherers leveled. Or it would be content that would be largely meaningless for me to do. When I read that it was self-contained content, and I would be able to participate in it, that's when I felt like it was content I could check out. Hearing them shoehorning crafters in, especially as aesthetics are a big thing, is disappointing most definitely. I haven't even been that negative about the content, because I didn't go in with really any expectations, but this is something I really don't like, as it could mean more stuff could be locked behind that.

I know some players would just say to level your crafters/gatherers then, but that's not really the point.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Take out the green cowrie items if people are having issues with that crossover into the "outside" world as well.

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The green side of the vendor seems completely pointless. I wish you could convert those excess mats to the blue at a lower rate or something.

Lol, "this optional part of side content requires input from crafters, I'm being FORCED to do this! Nerf it, nerf it, REEEEEEEEEEEE"

This community is amazing.

I'm glad this stuff exists. I have a few friends who always feel a little overwhelmed by the end-game raiding content but love to craft and this seems to be enjoyable for them.

SE wants a content for crafter/gatherer outside of the normal things people do with their raid preparation. Since they have already done with Ishgard Restoration and there is nothing similar along the line for them to-date, they seems to test if they can make the island as something for crafter/gatherer to flex their gear too.


I expect future cabin/facility glams and landmarks will require geared-to-the-teeth crafters/gatherers again.


I feel that they should focus on a relic line for crafter/gatherer instead if they want contents for these professions.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

I feel that they should focus on a relic line for crafter/gatherer instead if they want contents for these professions.

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Lol...the community would go ballistic if they did this. Relic lines are grindy enough as it is without throwing that crap on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Cheaper yes but I don't know about nothing. The materials are kinda difficult to get with a lot of RNG involved. You have to use aetherial reduction on the new sublime nodes they added and get lucky.

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You do need to get lucky , yes, but even still it’s not that hard *if* pentamelded. I did some gathering last night while waiting around for people, and over the course of a few hours I got 5 igneous glioaether, 5 verdurous glioaether, and 3 aqueous glioaether. The last—from fishing—was by far the most annoying.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Lol...the community would go ballistic if they did this. Relic lines are grindy enough as it is without throwing that crap on top of it.

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I think you misunderstand what Momo was trying to say.

It's not use crafter/gatherers in the process for getting the DoM/DoW relic weapons. It's give DoH/DoL their own relics (tools in their case) to grind.

We actually did get those last expansion but most crafters weren't impressed by them. By the time we got to the final stage of the relic where they were technically BiS over any other tools, they were pointless for everything but the Expert grind and many stuck to their Aesthete tools for that.

Crafters and gatherers were asking SE for a crafting/gathering end game for a long time. SE is trying to figure just what sort of end game are they looking for. While there are the outliers who are looking for prestige items that would represent their crafting/gathering skill, others are looking for what made them pick up crafting/gathering in the first place -earning more gil.

So where last expansion the Expert content was related more to prestige achievements, this expansion they seem to be going the gil route. Now they're getting the backlash from other players who think that making their Sanctuary look better shouldn't involve paying crafters who already get rich making other items. It might have been a mistake to give the fountain a superior appearance to the other landmarks.

I know YoshiP mentioned somewhere along the way that players would have different architecture styles to choose from for their Sanctuary buildings and I find it a bit hard to believe he only meant swapping to cruder earier versions. I'm wonder if those additional styles are going to be the Expert recipes for future 6.x patches. It wouldn't bother me on a personal level since I'm capable of doing the crafting. But the increasing uproar it would likely cause would be bad for the game and the community. Players are already unhappy with how much gil crafters make, despite having the option to participate in the content themselves. Crafting is very accessible but few want to take advantage, and that makes it that much easier for those who do to earn more gil since there's not much competition.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

You do need to get lucky , yes, but even still it’s not that hard *if* pentamelded. I did some gathering last night while waiting around for people, and over the course of a few hours I got 5 igneous glioaether, 5 verdurous glioaether, and 3 aqueous glioaether. The last—from fishing—was by far the most annoying.

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RNG is a HUGE factor here. With appropriate food I am at 3804 Gathering and 3766 Perception. Getting to 1000 quality is the first hurdle. Even with these stats, more often than not it takes more than 2 uses of the nodes' integrity to get to 1000 quality. Then comes the painful part. At 3804 Gathering I have only a 13% chance for a sublime collectible. I can go for several nodes without seeing a single sublime collectible. My worst run was 90 minutes worth of collecting with not a single Glio to show for it. Admittedly there were times when I had somewhat better luck but honestly, I think the RNG involved here is a bit too extreme.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Players are already unhappy with how much gil crafters make, despite having the option to participate in the content themselves.

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I've made plenty of money just from adventuring and keeping up with content. Crafting had little to do with the millions I've racked up. I don't see why people care so much about how much they make. There's only so much you can do with gil.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

There is little else said regarding aesthetics outside IS after rank 10. Only the impression that there will be follow up content for the Island. Who's to say that the fountain doesn't play any part in progression further past rank 10?

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If I'm understanding right from this thread, once you've unlocked it, it's "just another landmark option" like the others that require no input besides Island Sanctuary progress. I'm pretty sure the system doesn't care which landmarks you build where.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I haven't started IS yet and the longer it goes on the less I want to do it. It seems like if you haven't already maxed everything out by now don't bother, no one is going to be worrying about it next week anyway.

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It's totally self-driven and nobody else is on your island, so you're not missing out on anything by waiting. It's not like Eureka or Bozja where you need to do it alongside a crowd or it gets harder later.

That said, it's not necessarily good content that you're missing out on and this is not a "it's fun and you should do it" endorsement. But if falling behind is your only concern, don't be worried about that.

If you just want one or two of the purchasable items but don't want to engage, I'm thinking the easiest route might be to get in there, do the initial tutorial that gives you a chunk of currency and unlocks the shop, up to the point where the mammets start asking you for money to expand the facilities. Don't pay them, leave and come back once a week to gather 100 items and receive 1000 currency from the challenge log.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

The green side of the vendor seems completely pointless. I wish you could convert those excess mats to the blue at a lower rate or something.

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Look through the other tabs. Only the raw materials are sold for the useless green currency; other items like produce, leavings and rare materials from the granary can be sold for blue currency.

This means that the granary expeditions are at very least a cost-neutral way of gathering basic materials over time (sell two rares = 50 cowries = cost of expedition recouped) and another opportunity for a long-term trickle of currency once you upgrade the granary and start getting three rares per expedition.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Look through the other tabs. Only the raw materials are sold for the useless green currency; other items like produce, leavings and rare materials from the granary can be sold for blue currency.

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I'm aware of this. That doesn't change the fact that the green portion is useless. My statement was regarding my wish that the materials currently exchanged for green could be exchanged for blue instead, since I have a ridiculous excess of materials I'll never use and nothing worthwhile to do with them.

Green side is there for when you break 999 of something and want to get rid of the error message. ;)

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

I'm aware of this. That doesn't change the fact that the green portion is useless. My statement was regarding my wish that the materials currently exchanged for green could be exchanged for blue instead, since I have a ridiculous excess of materials I'll never use and nothing worthwhile to do with them.

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The irony of calling green side useless when people are freaking out here about needing expensive pentamelds to do the content. They're literally giving you a way to get the materia. Just get them from there....for free....over time. Not a hard concept. Hell, odds are someone has some form of macro to get you by up already since people were macroing relics & firm experts when they were still current content.

Personally I'm glad they're giving DoH/DoL some new content and as someone who placed in the top 12 of Firm rankings for DoH, I'm excited to actually do something with experts again.

I have the fountain. I like it better then the windmill so I have it up, but not having it does literally nothing. It does the same thing as the other landmarks do. With the Water Otter fountain being the 5th landmark and there are only 4 spots, you're not missing anything not having it.

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Originally Posted by AlaineIV

I thought that island content was supposed to be completely seperate and not requiring DoH or DoL for the island. However if you get the island to rank 10 and complete the final mission as well as have everything upgraded to rank 3 and all the land marks posted you get the permit for the Water Odder Otter Fountain for the Land marks, however, it is locked behind expert crafts behind DoH outside of the Island. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it stated that DoH and DoL was not required for all island content. If you don't have it the cost of the materials needed for the permit range from 12 million to 15 million gil pending the server.

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It's just a nice bonus fountain for crafter.

You must have a crafter friend, or take up crafting, anything you don't pay the Marketboard for is money earned, even if the sale quickly becomes ridiculous.

I wouldn't say it is gated behind expert crafts. Yes, you can put in the fountain. Supposedly it adds to your mammets' "groove" (my sanctuary isn't R10 yet so I can't find out). However, you do not need more groove nor do you need this landmark. It is optional - just like all of Island Sanctuary.

Personally, I would have wanted to see the Water Otter Fountain parts to be untradeable. Only let players that can make them have them on their island.

It was said (even in game) that you do NOT have to have a DoH or DoL job to do IS stuff. Then you suddenly do anyway.

I'll do what I usually do with this kind of thing. I always get around to eventually leveling my DoH and DoL jobs. I'll do that and get the gear from the next expansion to make it easy to get the stats.

I could easily just buy the fountain, I have the gil, but I will not do so.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

It was said (even in game) that you do NOT have to have a DoH or DoL job to do IS stuff. Then you suddenly do anyway.

I'll do what I usually do with this kind of thing. I always get around to eventually leveling my DoH and DoL jobs. I'll do that and get the gear from the next expansion to make it easy to get the stats.

I could easily just buy the fountain, I have the gil, but I will not do so.

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Strictly speaking you don't have to do DoH or DoL stuff for IS. All of the content is doable without it. The only thing that is "gated" behind crafter/gatherers is a customisation option.
In the same vein, one might say that glamour is "gated" behind a paywall (Mogstation).

That's really disappointing. It really shouldn't require levelling all the way to 90 or buying items for artificially high prices off the market board if it's optional content that's not supposed to affect it be affected by the main game.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's really disappointing. It really shouldn't require levelling all the way to 90 or buying items for artificially high prices off the market board if it's optional content that's not supposed to affect it be affected by the main game.

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What's your definition of "optional content" in this respect?
Only it seems that the same could be applied to many other things, not just IS.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's really disappointing. It really shouldn't require levelling all the way to 90 or buying items for artificially high prices off the market board if it's optional content that's not supposed to affect it be affected by the main game.

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It's not required.

It's literally optional content within optional content to acquire the fountain. Nothing for progress.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not required.

It's literally optional content within optional content to acquire the fountain. Nothing for progress.

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It's the final goal of island sanctuary, it is part of the progression, it's the reward for progressing. But people without level 90 pentamelded crafters just don't get to have it for some reason. Saying 'just don't finish island sanctuary then" seems like a pretty weak justification.
It's not technically needed if you're going to be pedantic but it's kind of a slap in the face to just gate the content off for no reason from people without level 90 crafters without warning.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's the final goal of island sanctuary, it is part of the progression, it's the reward for progressing. But people without level 90 pentamelded crafters just don't get to have it for some reason. Saying 'just don't finish island sanctuary then" seems like a pretty weak justification.
It's not technically needed if you're going to be pedantic but it's kind of a slap in the face to just gate the content off for no reason from people without level 90 crafters without warning.

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It isn't the final goal. As I understand it, the final goal is the lighthouse at level 10.
The fountain is literally just an optional cosmetic you can have in place of the 4 available landmarks.
It's the 5th of 4 spaces, so you aren't missing out on anything functionally by not having it.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

It isn't the final goal. As I understand it, the final goal is the lighthouse at level 10.
The fountain is literally just an optional cosmetic you can have in place of the 4 available landmarks.
It's the 5th of 4 spaces, so you aren't missing out on anything functionally by not having it.

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It's a capstone you get afterwards. Saying it's optional is just being pedantic. The developers said it would not factor into the main game and you wouldn't need level 90 crafters for the content inside.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's a capstone you get afterwards. Saying it's optional is just being pedantic. The developers said it would not factor into the main game and you wouldn't need level 90 crafters for the content inside.

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They said it wouldn't be "required". And it's not. You can do all IS content without it.
Again, I would like you to define optional.
You yourself refered to this content as optional, but apparently when I use it I'm being pedantic.