The feeling of beeing Home ...

All I can say is that this feels like the lowest point in FFXIV's history in terms of storytelling, gameplay, and content. I fear for its future.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Gotta love how not liking the characters means you didn't read anything about them. God forbid someone read the story and not absolutely love it or the characters in it. Ugh, can we stop using this excuse? It's as overplayed as "you don't pay my sub".



If you go to r/ffxiv, there's nothing but praise for the game unless you're specifically looking for a negative post and then you'll find one with a thousand dislikes. The official forums is the only place where negative opinions can actually exist without being purged by the GCBTW. It's very easy to think you're an outlier if you don't frequent the forums.

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You say all that, yet you can't have a positive opinion about the game or the story without being labeled a certain way. Here you are with this BS interpretation of my response, being dismissive and not even fully quoting me. If anything is overplayed, it's these kinds of responses. I'm not even saying the story is the best. Why does everything need to be dragged on through this depressing and often incoherent filth?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You say all that, yet you can't have a positive opinion about the game or the story without being labeled a certain way.

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Nah, if you like Endwalker, you're entitled to that opinion. I only have an issue when people tell others that they're wrong for not liking Endwalker because they either "didn't read the story", "didn't understand it", or are "just trolls". I'm going to disagree with your opinion but you're not WRONG for liking it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Here you are with this BS interpretation of my response,

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The interpretation was accurate, I just restated it in a way you didn't like.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

and not even fully quoting me.

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Oh god no! I didn't fully quote you! It's the third coming of the Final Days!

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Why does everything need to be dragged on through this depressing and often incoherent filth?

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Endwalker was depressing and often incoherent filth.

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Originally Posted by XiRon

Remember how freaking long Thancred sucking a 90 year old Gundam cosplayer was? That was not fun. It was a colossal waste of my time, that crap shouldve been a cutscene for godsake.

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Thancred did WHAT?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Perhaps those attempting to gatekeep feedback and criticism towards the game are, in fact, the ones who need to 'get over themselves' instead of making utterly bizarre judgements about people they do not even know.

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where am i trying to gatekeep anything?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

All I can say is that this feels like the lowest point in FFXIV's history in terms of storytelling, gameplay, and content. I fear for its future.

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the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

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Originally Posted by SannaR

If not the MSQ then what would you use to tie in going back to check in on the twins and thus what is going on in Garlemald?

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Maybe the last beast tribe.

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I highly doubt they'd just leave the twins and Julius at the train station in a holding pattern of doing what they can to help those who stayed

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They could just return in the MSQ and say they are done helping them and were successful.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

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FFXIV's recent string of disappointments has somehow managed to push me into Lost Ark despite my issues with how that game operates. Think about what that means when I, as an ARR vet, have grown that distant from the sole online game I enjoyed playing that I'm now playing that one. I want FFXIV to learn from its mistakes, but so far the future doesn't seem all that bright and despite how much I would like to see the game improve, I don't want to be viewed as a villain by people because of this like some of the community takes to doing.

I'm tired of people acting like I'm the bad guy for wanting a better story more like Heavensward's, more high fantasy locations, for Blue Mage to no longer be a limited job, for Viera and Hrothgar to be treated like full races (which was a major source of controversy right up until they revealed the Hrothgar wigs), and for wanting to see the conclusion of the Bozja storyline instead of Manderville weapons. I've said my piece, they've said theirs, and we fundamentally disagree on too many key issues.

I'd like for 6.2 to restore my confidence in the game. However if it doesn't then I guess I'll stick with Lost Ark and then go on to Diofield and other single player titles as they release.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Maybe the last beast tribe.

They could just return in the MSQ and say they are done helping them and were successful.

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The Akasadora? Or are you talking about the third tribe assuming we not averting from the formula and still get three that would be crafting if we were to follow how ShB did it? And are you ot are you not wanting more Garlemald? Cause just dropping by and getting an "Oh yeah everything is good here sorry for not getting on the linkshell or sending moogle mail to Tataru or whatever to say everything is good and Julius is now mayor. We'll be returning to Sharlyean..." feels like a bit of a wasted trip.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

where am i trying to gatekeep anything?

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You disagreed so you must be wanting to be gatekeeping.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

Thancred did WHAT?

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sucked AT FIGHTING RANJIT lmao I thought I typed that but my eyes were faster than my fingers.

Can't say I'm particularly excited to follow Garlemald's story as it transitions into yet another republic. I'm tired of the story repeating this handling of the political situation over and over again. Why was an Archades-style ending too much for this game?

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Originally Posted by SannaR

The Akasadora? Or are you talking about the third tribe assuming we not averting from the formula and still get three that would be crafting if we were to follow how ShB did it? And are you ot are you not wanting more Garlemald? Cause just dropping by and getting an "Oh yeah everything is good here sorry for not getting on the linkshell or sending moogle mail to Tataru or whatever to say everything is good and Julius is now mayor. We'll be returning to Sharlyean..." feels like a bit of a wasted trip.

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we already know all the beast tribes unless they pull an arr and add more than 3.
Arkasadora, Lopprits and Omicrons.
No Garlemald Restoration we SHOULD restore Bozja and Dalmasca but god forbid races that arent Hyur or Hyur But French ever matter in any capacity

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You disagreed so you must be wanting to be gatekeeping.

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Disagreement isn't the issue, it's the weird personal attacks, ridicule and insinuations that people take issue with.

Jeeqbit is disagreeing with the OP but isn't attacking people or ridiculing them for their opinions. So it's definitely possible to accomplish.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

The Akasadora? Or are you talking about the third tribe assuming we not averting from the formula and still get three that would be crafting if we were to follow how ShB did it?

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The last one, which I assume is the loporrits. They could land in Garlemald because beast tribes are known to move from the usual habitat.

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And are you ot are you not wanting more Garlemald? Cause just dropping by and getting an "Oh yeah everything is good here sorry for not getting on the linkshell or sending moogle mail to Tataru or whatever to say everything is good and Julius is now mayor. We'll be returning to Sharlyean..." feels like a bit of a wasted trip.

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Time away in the MSQ is often used to imply a sidequest. In the MSQ we get references to Krile being away for Eureka, Cid and others being away for the raids, or the investigation of the empty.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I feel like this whole "New Adventure" thing is what Yoshida wanted, not me.

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Oh, get over yourself:

Everything in this game is what Yoshida and his team wanted, not you.

That's how it works:

• They, the creators, decide what goes into their creation.
• You, the consumer, decide whether to buy it.

Don't like it? Then start your very own game design studio.
See if "what you want" makes for a game as successful as FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Disagreement isn't the issue, it's the weird personal attacks, ridicule and insinuations that people take issue with.

Jeeqbit is disagreeing with the OP but isn't attacking people or ridiculing them for their opinions. So it's definitely possible to accomplish.

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Yet there are those in this thread even who have acted as someone disagreeing with them even without name calling is akin to gatekeeping. When it comes to disliking a part of the game. Don't act like there aren't those who agree with the OP who don't employ personal attacks ect in their opening salvo.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Oh, get over yourself:

Everything in this game is what Yoshida and his team wanted, not you.

That's how it works:

• They, the creators, decide what goes into their creation.
• You, the consumer, decide whether to buy it.

Don't like it? Then start your very own game design studio.
See if "what you want" makes for a game as successful as FFXIV.

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Aside from all those times the development team have actively changed and compromised their vision in response to feedback from players.

I don't think Liam is the one who needs to 'get over himself'.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Oh, get over yourself:

Everything in this game is what Yoshida and his team wanted, not you.

That's how it works:

• They, the creators, decide what goes into their creation.
• You, the consumer, decide whether to buy it.

Don't like it? Then start your very own game design studio.
See if "what you want" makes for a game as successful as FFXIV.

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https://i.imgur.com/Nmd7bMd.png

Part of what Yoshida believes/believed is the approach to making it successful is to listen to one's customers. Not exactly unheard of as a principle in business.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Everything in this game is what Yoshida and his team wanted, not you.

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Ah yes, the old "the creators have a right to trash their product so just leave if you don't like it" argument. I cannot wait for the day when people start taking that advice and the people who use this argument start wondering where everyone went.

Sometimes I wonder if you people even want the game to be the best it can be, or if you just want it to continue the downward spiral because you prefer eating sludge.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The last one, which I assume is the loporrits. They could land in Garlemald because beast tribes are known to move from the usual habitat.

Time away in the MSQ is often used to imply a sidequest. In the MSQ we get references to Krile being away for Eureka, Cid and others being away for the raids, or the investigation of the empty.

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Ok I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to insist that a Thavnir centric beast tribe to have us drop by and check in with the twins. Yet we didn't even get a reference to the Twins in the MSQ. At the moment they're in a holding pattern as of the epilog of 6.0. I'd regulate Thancred to side content before the Twins. As I've said I think we'll see them in 6.2 unless for whatever reason they're purposely keeping them out of the MSQ til 6.3. Which would be odd.

This feels...oddly close to a bait post. Look, ill give you this, there is a certain sad sense in finally getting the answers to alot of overarching questions that have been hanging over the game for ages. Especially if they ended in a way that dint appeal you personally. However, alot of the points you point out as reasons you dislike the game CURRENTLY have been around for a pretty extended time period, or were actually discussed and covered in the endwalker MSQ that you just seem to...ignore. Tataru has acted as she does in EW since basically HW. Yshtolas issues again, happened quite a while ago and have only very lightly been touched on since. Urianger has an entire MSQ plot revolving around him and his lying nature, which makes it an odd point out. Thancred has been grieving for ages. However his EW version did it CONSIDERBLY less then other past MSQs. Alphi and Alisaie as you've written them out sounds less like its a character issue, and more you havent let go old hashed out plot points. Alphinaud has become pretty levelheaded overall, not very smartass, and been mostly likeable to the majority of players it seems. Alisaie has always been a character whos worn her emotions on her sleeve, even going back to HW. To be mad about her crying speaks again to a just overall dislike of the character as a whole, not her specific EW version. And for the last 3, Estenian, Kryle, and Graha, they have not changed much since: End of HW, partway in SB, and basically ARR respectively. At least within the specific character traits you point out. All this being said, it sounds like you do, and have, simply just disliked the main cast for a majority of the MSQ. Meaning your biggest issue was probably just MSQ its self and how things wrapped up. On that front, while not trying to be dismissive of your complaints, they are opinions. Some enjoyed how things were done, some did not. I have a hard time believing you ever felt "at home" for anything that is MSQ or character related outside of maybe some of the more overarching lore pieces? Because even going through MSQ, alot of the plot points, twist, ect were pretty easily spelt out long before they happened. I never expected to see a non ruined garlamald, and I dont think many did either. Alot of your complaints seem to chock up to "I had rose tinted goggles on, but a bad thing happened, they got smashed, why game bad." The game and its story has flaws, no doubt. But a huge chunk of what you point out as flaws have been here, so why are you only now feeling this way? Was it really just the disliking of how certain things panned out? Something happen to shift your perspective of the game? I dont know. But a good choice for the moment may just be unsubbing for a while. Try and determine more accurately why its only NOW your feeling like this, because most of your reasoning could have been stated back in HW and have had little to no difference as complaints vrs saying them now in EW. Hope ya figure it out.

Why would it be a bait post? The Scions are not what many people play the game for. Much in the same way that many people didn't play World of Warcraft purely for the sake of Jaina, Anduin, Baine and Sylvanas.

MMO's by their very nature are intended to appeal to a broad audience and a common criticism of the game's current trajectory has been that large swathes of what people find intriguing have been sacrificed in favour of more of the exact same thing we've seen many times over already.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

The Scions disbanding should have been the end of the story for those character. Time to bring in new characters for the New Adventure.

but nah...bring them all back in literally 5 minutes after disbanding.

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How come you keep bringing this up when the game itself tells you that the Scions HAVEN'T really disbanded? Do you like when people constantly question your ability to read and comprehend text? Because that's the only thing that I can think whenever someone brings this nonsense up. Maybe question why they're not so secretive about grouping up again or some other point of the story, not the one that was specifically explained.

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Originally Posted by Anura

How come you keep bringing this up when the game itself tells you that the Scions HAVEN'T really disbanded? Do you like when people constantly question your ability to read and comprehend text? Because that's the only thing that I can think whenever someone brings this nonsense up. Maybe question why they're not so secretive about grouping up again or some other point of the story, not the one that was specifically explained.

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You do you buddy.

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Originally Posted by Anura

How come you keep bringing this up when the game itself tells you that the Scions HAVEN'T really disbanded? Do you like when people constantly question your ability to read and comprehend text? Because that's the only thing that I can think whenever someone brings this nonsense up. Maybe question why they're not so secretive about grouping up again or some other point of the story, not the one that was specifically explained.

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The interviews that teased us with new characters and storylines?

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Originally Posted by Renalt

You do you buddy.

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To be faaaair, I looked up the CS in question because I truly have the memory of a goldfish, but it has my dear little Alphinaud writing a letter in which he states that the Scions are disbanding, and after a pause we get "at least that is what the story will be". And then it shows them all chatting in the hall saying how it's going to be awhile before they can gather up in a group again in order to keep up appearances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJbE...=ExtelionGamer (at around 4:35).

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Now what if...

hear me out...

the writers...

didn't write the 'disbanding' in that stupid way and just had them disband for real?

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And yeah, that could have been a nice way for us to get a fresh story and new characters! But alas.....seems we're stuck with the gang for better or worse.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The interviews that teased us with new characters and storylines?

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Hey, I'm all for new characters. I love Ysayle and Heavensward is my favorite expansion. I would love to go on an adventure with Fordola and some new blood, but that's not the point. The Scions are still active and the game made that clear, for better or worse. Making shit up is not a good way to reinforce an argument, and that's what some people are doing by pointing the disband.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Now what if...

hear me out...

the writers...

didn't write the 'disbanding' in that stupid way and just had them disband for real?

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Not my point. I'm just trying to keep things real. I'm ready for a new group, maybe with new characters or characters we've already seen, like Fordola. Again: just don't make things up.

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Originally Posted by Anura

How come you keep bringing this up when the game itself tells you that the Scions HAVEN'T really disbanded?

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Now what if...

hear me out...

the writers...

didn't write the 'disbanding' in that stupid way and just had them disband for real?


If a thing established in EW is causing the writing to be stupid... don't write that thing into the plot. This isn't something the scions did in SHB. Just don't have them do it or have them do it for real, instead of having a fake 'disbandment' for no good reason (the 'reasons' given aren't good).

This is becoming a new trend lately I noticed, not just here but all major fandoms of media.

Thing becomes super popular with influx of new people wanting to enjoy > suddenly it's "bad" so the minority needs to be extra vocal about it to convince everyone else it's "bad" > it mostly has to do with how the story or characters are written or how it didn't go "their way" so therefore it's "bad", and the creators must listen to "feedback" to be "good"

What is "good" to you in story or characters is entirely subjective, not fact. If you truly don't enjoy it anymore, instead of bringing down people who do, then leave the fandom, that is all there is to it. Post like these aren't "feedback", it's trying to drag the people who do enjoy it down and try to make them feel bad for enjoying it. If you don't enjoy the story or characters, that's on you.

Gameplay is another story, but characters and story in media IS entirely what the creators want, not you. If you do not agree with that, well, sorry, then it's not for you. And trying to change the story to suit "your needs" isn't going to help anything either.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Ah yes, the old "the creators have a right to trash their product so just leave if you don't like it" argument.

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If you had an ounce of humility and a bit of perspective, you might realize that just because you think it is trash doesn't mean most people think that, much less that it actually is.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Sometimes I wonder if you people even want the game ... to continue the downward spiral

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Of record profits and subscribers? That "downward" spiral? Sure!

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

you prefer eating sludge.

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Ever had Turkish coffee? Personally, I much prefer espresso, but tastes vary.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why would it be a bait post? The Scions are not what many people play the game for. Much in the same way that many people didn't play World of Warcraft purely for the sake of Jaina, Anduin, Baine and Sylvanas.

MMO's by their very nature are intended to appeal to a broad audience and a common criticism of the game's current trajectory has been that large swathes of what people find intriguing have been sacrificed in favour of more of the exact same thing we've seen many times over already.

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Because OP mentions the scions and their current personalities as issues in the post? Sure, people play MMOs for various reasons, thats not a debated idea. But when someone says "blank bad now" when "blank has been that was for 5+years", it can look like bait. If their issues lie with other aspects of the game, sure go off. That can be a discussion. But when you say "this game was so good in every aspect until ___ time ago" and then proceed to point out things you view as issues that have been basically as is for FAR longer then when you said the situation got bad, it comes off as a kinda misplaced complaint. And considering its the forms, and alot of bait here exist, its easy to see oddly misplaced complaints and go "hm, might be bait".

The Scions and their personalities are not why I was drawn to FFXIV or why I continued playing, but their handling in EW is part of the reason why I am playing other games and no longer feeling confident in FFXIV's current trajectory.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

There is a certain subcommunity of particularly... unintelligent people on the official forums (I could name names but I'm not gonna) who will tell you that you're weird or an outlier for disliking the glorious, amazing story that was Endwalker and that you must respect their majoritah. Don't listen to these people. There is nothing wrong with not liking it, especially with how poorly the expansion handled itself. You are not alone in not liking it, despite what they will tell you.

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I think that mythical subcommunity is exactly that - a product of one's imagination. I haven't seen anyone here claiming someone is weird for not liking EW. I have seen people take issue with others claiming they are the arbiters of what is "good" or "bad," and then insisting that the story must be absolutely terrible because they said so, and how dare anyone actually claim they like it.

It's also a fact that the playerbase at large far and away enjoyed the story in EW. That doesn't at all mean everyone has to like it. But to try acting as if one's "EW is bad" mentality is actually the general feeling, and then insisting the dev team is bad because of that misinformation - that's not helpful. It was eye-opening to see the absolute shock some people displayed when polls showed most of the Scions are actually very popular characters, because they became so entrenched in the echo chamber of negativity on these forums that it was unthinkable the forums might represent only a tiny sliver of the playerbase, and that the general feeling outside of it was very different.

Every right to be concerned looking at the trainwreck of an expansion we just got delivered OP. For me personally, 7.0 is make or break. 6.1 was pretty disappointing, so here's hoping 6.2-7.0 can make up for it. I'm not confident they will though. They completely mishandled both Garlemald and the Ancients in favour of another Hand-holding adventure with the Scions, who are probably the least interesting characters in this game rn. I can't really say the gameplay loop is really doing much for me either, but that's a whole different story.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

https://i.imgur.com/Nmd7bMd.png

Part of what Yoshida believes/believed is the approach to making it successful is to listen to one's customers. Not exactly unheard of as a principle in business.

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Can't say if he ever believed it before but he sure as hell doesn't anymore. I suppose it's a good thing we have all these people encouraging us to move to Canada to escape a dictatorship.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

If you had an ounce of humility and a bit of perspective, you might realize that just because you think it is trash doesn't mean most people think that, much less that it actually is.

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1) I don't care what the majoritah thinks, and popular = good is a stupid argument.
2) Your post said that the devs have a right to do whatever they want, which would include things that are not good for the game. Thus your argument is that the creators have a right to trash their own product if they want to and that anyone who doesn't like that should leave. A fact I pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Of record profits and subscribers?

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Are you referring to 6.0 or right now? 6.0 obviously did amazing. It was hyped up to the extreme, came right after the amazing expansion that was Shadowbringers and you can't just undo playing it if you hated it. For an example that is pretty relevant to Endwalker's situation, the Last Jedi (Star Wars ep8) did great profit-wise as it was hyped up just like Endwalker, yet it was hated by a LOT of people and you didn't see that impact sales until a bit later down the line. We're already seeing a large portion of the game's population leaving despite 6.15 AND a free subscription campaign. You might not care if people leave the game but SE will once it impacts their bottom line.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Ever had Turkish coffee? Personally, I much prefer espresso, but tastes vary.

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I'm more of a tea person, coffee is very bad for your long-term health.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

Can't say if he ever believed it before but he sure as hell doesn't anymore.

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Live and learn: years of trying to make sense of the complaints in the forums have no doubt imparted Yoshida with a wisdom he previously lacked.

Besides, "listening to customers/complaints" doesn't mean taking all customers/complaints seriously:
there's far too many wack-jobs in the world for that.

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Originally Posted by Treesus

snip

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So other opinions as your own, are Bait Posts now?
When you get involed into the story of this game and suddenly a lot of things makes no sense anymore, cause they got changed last minute or never meant a thing cause Yoshi wanted to get rid of the old things ... don't know. Are we playing the same game?
The Scions are a bunch of boring yes sayers who thinks it is bad when the Garleans or others do something bad, but god forbid if the worst of it all was Hydaelyn. And what was the reaction of all that? Not a single tear, not a single bad word. My Friend Zenos would have said "Acceptance .... at last acceptance" and only that.

Maybe you agree with the story, maybe you liked it and how it turned out for you. You may even have skipped most parts of the story. But I put a lot of time into the story and a lot of money and that's all we're getting after all these years? A halfhearted clickbait story that raised even more questions than before Endwalker. Everything Yoshi has to say "don't look too deep into the story"...don't know if he was drunk but FFX14 lives for the story, everything else you can have in all other games.
If you like the Scions it's okay, but after all these years of always feeling the same, acting the same, it gets old and boring. No matter how many times we sit at a table, eat burgers, or watch a catgirl sleep in a library.
I can tell you next time we have Alphinaud back on our team and something happens... watch him clench his fist for the 100th time.

Hoo boy, this again. Seems like we can't swing a stick without hitting half a dozen threads about how the game sucks these days.

I don't get why people keep paying for a game they don't enjoy. Seems silly. But hey, do whatever you want, it's your money to burn.