Where is the BLM nerf?

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Originally Posted by Airget

o_O now I"m confused what exactly did they do to ARC/BRD aside from adding a recast to light shot when WS are used lol?

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This update was just sort of another kick in the nuts after the complete gutting of ARC post 1.18 is all.

(Yes, ARC was powerful pre-AA, no more so than WAR and BLM are now. Just that SE sort of decided to cap Archer in the knees with a baseball bat.)

BLM itself doesn't need nerfing. the nerf to collusion indirectly nerfs BLM. BLMs are physically weaker than a paper bag, they are entitled to have high damage output.

I personally wouldn't mind a 20% reduction in BLM damage coupled with a 20% reduction in MP cost, that way they can still dish out just as much damage but it takes them longer to do it.

high damage, low defense.
- is this concept really that hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by NotApplicable

Damage or recast time or MP or whatever. It's not balanced. Doing something to it won't keep it from being "viable".

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MP is already a restriction if you're not careful. Would you like to see melee classes told that if they attack too often they have to and sit in the corner until their stamina recovers?

When you have casting interruptions, THM/BLM needs to be able to kill the mobs before they get too close. This might not be an issue in party play but is an issue when soloing. If spell damage was reduced, they're going to find themselves in a lot of soloing situations where they're unable to cast. You don't see melee jobs with the same problems. Even worse when you have no armour either.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Personally, I disagree with the overall idea of nerfing BLM. However, they really need to make BLM not be the solution to everything. Give us something that has retarded magic defense/defense in general. Even the playing field, rather than destroying one job because it's better than others.

Also most BLM players are actually pretty shit. So there's that, at least.

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Increasing magic defense of mobs is a nerf to MNK as well...

Can we not go there?

lol everyone talks about nerf, war got the biggest nerf and no one talks about it, steel cyclone do half dmg now, thats a nerf.

can i have it?

Revenge!! lets just nerf all others job to make wars looks Guays again

Black Mages have a nerf incoming, it's called Ramuh

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

I personally wouldn't mind a 20% reduction in BLM damage coupled with a 20% reduction in MP cost, that way they can still dish out just as much damage but it takes them longer to do it.

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Why? Why is everyone going on about the damage that black mage does with two spells!? Two spells that are the same element? It's our only two spells and a half that do damage. Take that away and black mage has nothing.

Anyone that agrees to this thread, give me good reasons to it not just "Black mages needs a nerf to damage". I try to get a thread about changing black mage to have more variety to spells and here we have people it needs to be gimped more.

-No Armor for defense
-No Hp we die in two hits maybe less.
-Lost AoE toggle (I would rather have toggle back than just have all fire spells aoes)
-Lost conal aoe
-Movement Spell Cancel (Because of the Pvp whiners when it's no where near close to being out...)
-Higher Interruption rate
-We have no useful enfeebles (After the first one they hardly work, useless on bosses)
-Lolice
-Ancient Magics are a pure joke not useful reliable damage, which they should be.
-Hardly any useful gear/weapons (Double meld Lightning brand/Garuda staff... such a selection there)
-Fighting Earth/Lightning mobs render us useless, look at the Dragoon Final Fight.
-No Siphon MP (Big Nerf to Thm/blm in my opinion, under losing half the elemental wheel)
-Lolice (Cause it's just that god damn bad)

My god, is this because people skilled enough to use a black mage burn on Garuda and Ifrit and it's overpowered? I call that skill. If Ramuh and Titan came out and Blm burns took them down then that would be amazing but it isn't gonna happen with how crappy Fire/Ice lines are.

All those nerfs and you still want more cause we excel at two spells, are you kidding me!?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41...7977818995.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

This update was just sort of another kick in the nuts after the complete gutting of ARC post 1.18 is all.

(Yes, ARC was powerful pre-AA, no more so than WAR and BLM are now. Just that SE sort of decided to cap Archer in the knees with a baseball bat.)

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They are fine?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

BLM itself doesn't need nerfing. the nerf to collusion indirectly nerfs BLM. BLMs are physically weaker than a paper bag, they are entitled to have high damage output.

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I don't see how their physical stats have anything to do with a reason why they should do high damage. I mean if they were to be stronger then the rest of the classes, it isn't because they can't hit mobs with a stick very hard. But I do agree they are fine. Black Mages have the ability to target a monsters weakness, if they nerf anything, it needs to be, like you said, indirect nerfs like collusion and MP song.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

... Nerf what? The only spell that's useful, and it's only useful because there's no bosses that have a high Resistance to lightning? I swear most people who say Blm is too powerful are so short-sighted, just wait till bosses such as titan and Ramuh show up and see if anyone stacks blm/thm.

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^ this

/10char

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Originally Posted by Niqote

^ this

/10char

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^ this

/10char

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Originally Posted by NotApplicable

Where is the BLM nerf?

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http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...e/YumiNerf.jpg

Its not needed in my opinion, all others got a buff of some sort so it will be more even damage wise (except archer, 3sec recast oh the horror) mages already got their "nerf" last patch since we cant cast while running anymore.

BLM need protect and stoneskin and more mp, NotApplicable you have one problem mental blm now is very bad need change, i always view stupid people speak in forum is is shameful

Its not that blms are overpowered its that Blm's squishyness isnt a big disadvantage, sure the melee dd's have more hp and what have you but they wont survive sufficiently longer than a blm in the line of fire. So everyone takes 3-4 blm/thm because they can dps from outside of the range of the cheap aoes and so despite their squishyness they are more survivable/reliable. Things need to change alot on a deeper level than just nerfing blm.

BLM is fine as it is. Now some1 can remember who said something about players stacking blm's. Well the fact is and always will be that BLM's are needed wheather you like them or not. Even in FFXI during dynamis blm's was needed as well as other jobs. What some people dont understand is that even w convert blm's can blow there mp load and then they basicly cant do anything till it recovers.

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Originally Posted by NotApplicable

That's a nerf any way you want to look at it. It's nothing huge, but it's a nerf nonetheless.

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seems more like a fix than a nerf, welcome to the rest of the classes in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

BLM is fine as it is. Now some1 can remember who said something about players stacking blm's. Well the fact is and always will be that BLM's are needed wheather you like them or not. Even in FFXI during dynamis blm's was needed as well as other jobs. What some people dont understand is that even w convert blm's can blow there mp load and then they basicly cant do anything till it recovers.

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Thats really not a very good comparison there is a whole lot of difference between stacking blm/thm being prefered in pretty much all endgame content to holding a niche role like they had in xi. In xi they were wanted for doing something many other jobs couldnt do namely nuke down multiple mobs before they could even act. That isnt the reason people are choosing blm/thm to fill their party slots in ffxiv though their aoe nukes are very useful.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why? Why is everyone going on about the damage that black mage does with two spells!? Two spells that are the same element? It's our only two spells and a half that do damage. Take that away and black mage has nothing.

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What's your point? "Take away those spells and black mage has nothing"? Well, it does have those spells, and spamming them is incredibly effective and out-damages the hell out of all the other DD classes even with the MP issues BLM ocassionally faces. Though I've yet to see how DRG and MNK do after this hotfix.

Fire combo is also crazy effective for groups and pretty much lays waste to the mobs in raids, so even this "only 2 good spells" nonsense of yours is wrong.

"Just you wait until Ramuh hits the scene" is kind of a redundant thing to say, that's just one battle, what about all the content we're dealing with right now? Besides, the element wheels don't seem to have much purpose these days sadly. I don't see anyone exploiting Ifrit's supposed weakness to wind or Garuda's weakness to ice for example, thunder combo will always be the order of the day unless they make some heavy adjustments to the spell system.

The "Higher damage, lower defense" argument doesn't pan out at all either as BLM is usually way safer than MNK and DRG, so there's absolutely no added risk in being a BLM.

I share your sentiment that BLM lacks variety though, it would be nice if it had some of the stuff you listed so spamming thunder or spamming fire wasn't the sole purpose of BLM.

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Originally Posted by Phe

high damage, low defense.
- is this concept really that hard to understand?

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high damage, rarely gets hit so low defense is a moot point.
- is this concept really that hard to understand?

Black Mages spammed thunder spells in 11 until voidwatch came out and Ramuh is in that game as well and the world kept on spinning.

Black Mage doesn't need a nerf. Here's why.

1. MP already limits your Damage output. Black mage is best suited to a quick 2 min or less battle. After that, they need to rest or conserve MP to keep up their DPS.
2. Mobs HATE getting hit for large damage at once, means BLM's really have to watch their +EMN. Because most 'event' mobs will EAT a BLM in 1-2 hits if they pull hate. Melee DD's can at least take a hit or two while tank gets hate back.
3. BLM is one of the few Jobs in game at moment that better gear does actually trump player skill. Therefore, being a decently geared BLM is an investment. Don't get me wrong, you can't just have mack-daddy gears and expect to be an awesome BLM if you don't know how/when to use what spells and abilities...but just knowing how to use your spells and abilities and using 'meh' gear, won't help you much on high resistance mobs like Garuda. One resist=messed up combo, downtime for BLM...so in this respect, it is always going to be a class requiring above average gear. (=expensive)
4. Did it ever occur to all those in the 'nerf blm camp' that the reason BLM setup works for so many battles right now is that we're fighting Mobs with High Def, lots of AOE and lower Mag Def? The fact that BLM reigns supreme should be a no brainer.
5. BLM is supposed to be RAW damage, that's it. The 'enfeebles' it has are all (with the exception of Flare) Mob mobility stopping, slowing, sleeping or -emn reducing for a reason. They are BLM's only defense, and they are intended to help BLM's keep the mob at a distance....so they can keep nuking.
6. Yes, currently the community over uses BLM. I think most of us can agree on that. But the reasons for the overuse aren't because BLM is too powerful (which IS why WAR is still tank over PLD) but because there are some basic flaws in dungeon/primal battles right now that favor BLM's style. If SE would reconsider speed runs=5 chests, AOE boss attacks, requiring more movement in a fight, and create some magic resistant and/or magic immune mobs, we'd be whining about Lancer or Archer or Warrior stacking... (which by the way HAS been whined about in the past).
7. A majority of the 'endgame elite' shells happen to have a lot of people in them that Main Black Mage, Bard or Monk. This is why you see those combinations so often. They are simply playing their favored classes to clear new content, but then their method becomes 'the way it must be done'.

Now about Archer/Bard
Yes, when people stacked Archers to do darkhold Buffalo etc, I'm sure archers had a blast. But square decided to morph Archer into a DD/support class hybrid. When they did that, they HAD to reduce Arc/Bard damage to balance things out. Also, while I know most parcer's don't calculate this, think about how much damage a Bard is indirectly responsible for by giving the party boosts? My White Mage rarely gets to throw out any DD spells with the exception of the occasional Stone (which I cast to make the BLM's more effective btw). But without me, the party's damage would suck 'cause they'd be dead. A 3 second recast when you WS is nothing...it doesn't even change your gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Luwnax

Increasing magic defense of mobs is a nerf to MNK as well...

Can we not go there?

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I...what?

How is adding more content that doesn't revolve around BLMs a nerf to MNK? MNK hasn't been exactly terrible, you know. Aside from Cutter's Cry, I haven't seen an instance where Monk was inefficient.

In every game Caster have always been more powerful than DDs because they have lower hp and def and pull alot more hate than DDs so they inturn will die fast than a DD that why they are a backline job thats the trade off. And unlike DD that can always attack if the Blm runs out of MP its siuts there with its thumb up its ass till it recovers. DD? do they stop attacking when they run out of TP no they melee still. Ann DDs in this game still have way better survivability than Blm. Mnks have better Second wind to give better hp bach than necrosis. Drg have now Jump that evades life surge and dread spike and Second wind also.

If ppl are asking for Blm nerf then i say nerf DDs HP and Def so they no how bad it is to get hit like a Blm and die in 2 hits.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Black Mage doesn't need a nerf. Here's why.

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Alright, I'll try and tackle your points.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

1. MP already limits your Damage output. Black mage is best suited to a quick 2 min or less battle. After that, they need to rest or conserve MP to keep up their DPS.

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Ballad of Magi pretty much solves any MP issues they once had with the content we have right now (especially primals), and if the battle is long enough to put a BLM to zero MP, it really doesn't take too long of a rest period to bring it back to full again. I'd say your "2 mins or less" is also way off, black mages have to pace themselves to avoid getting hate.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

2. Mobs HATE getting hit for large damage at once, means BLM's really have to watch their +EMN. Because most 'event' mobs will EAT a BLM in 1-2 hits if they pull hate. Melee DD's can at least take a hit or two while tank gets hate back.

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As above, good black mages will pace themselves and watch their hate. They can still dish out crazy damage whilst being careful not to pull hate.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

3. BLM is one of the few Jobs in game at moment that better gear does actually trump player skill. Therefore, being a decently geared BLM is an investment. Don't get me wrong, you can't just have mack-daddy gears and expect to be an awesome BLM if you don't know how/when to use what spells and abilities...but just knowing how to use your spells and abilities and using 'meh' gear, won't help you much on high resistance mobs like Garuda. One resist=messed up combo, downtime for BLM...so in this respect, it is always going to be a class requiring above average gear. (=expensive)

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I disagree, BLM's with full AF might not have the ridiculous damage melded folks put out but are still pretty damn decent. Still a better choice thank MNK or DRG in most situations.

EDIT: Deleted half the post 'cause I don't like having essay long replies... :3

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

What's your point? "Take away those spells and black mage has nothing"? Well, it does have those spells, and spamming them is incredibly effective and out-damages the hell out of all the other DD classes even with the MP issues BLM ocassionally faces. Though I've yet to see how DRG and MNK do after this hotfix.

Fire combo is also crazy effective for groups and pretty much lays waste to the mobs in raids, so even this "only 2 good spells" nonsense of yours is wrong.

"Just you wait until Ramuh hits the scene" is kind of a redundant thing to say, that's just one battle, what about all the content we're dealing with right now? Besides, the element wheels don't seem to have much purpose these days sadly. I don't see anyone exploiting Ifrit's supposed weakness to wind or Garuda's weakness to ice for example, thunder combo will always be the order of the day unless they make some heavy adjustments to the spell system.

The "Higher damage, lower defense" argument doesn't pan out at all either as BLM is usually way safer than MNK and DRG, so there's absolutely no added risk in being a BLM.

I share your sentiment that BLM lacks variety though, it would be nice if it had some of the stuff you listed so spamming thunder or spamming fire wasn't the sole purpose of BLM.



high damage, rarely gets hit so low defense is a moot point.
- is this concept really that hard to understand?

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Agreed here. I really just wish the elements made more sense overall too. Including elemental resistance. I know testing has been done and whatnot, but compared to XI it feels like the elements just make no sense right now in this game. I'd just like a little more variety to spells.

I've also heard arguments that THM/BLM shouldn't have all of the elements. I can sub these spells from CNJ anyway so why not give a single job all the spells and let the other sub what they want instead? That's another topic sorry.

Slightly on topic, is it just me or does Stone seem more powerful than Aero everytime it's used?

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

I personally wouldn't mind a 20% reduction in BLM damage coupled with a 20% reduction in MP cost, that way they can still dish out just as much damage but it takes them longer to do it.

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BLM isn't 20% more powerful, and nobody that isn't BLM/whm is limited by MP. This would be an INSANE and totally unnecessary nerf.

This is why everyday people aren't in charge of balance. The main problem was that BLMs could nuke heavily with no consequenses because of collusion. Now, they still gain some enmity, so they'll take hate sooner after the effect wears off. If people are conciously deciding to beat contents without BLM (particularly hamlet defense) then it's obviously not so overpowered that it can be used for everything.

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Slightly on topic, is it just me or does Stone seem more powerful than Aero everytime it's used?

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it is, but its because Aero has an additional DoT. Though the DoT doesn't seem like it's strong enough to make up for the power difference.

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Originally Posted by NotApplicable

Buffed PGL/MNK and LNC/DRG? Good to hear, but how can you nerf ARC/BRD and leave THM/BLM untouched?

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What...is wrong with you?

http://i.imgur.com/xMWs8.gif

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Originally Posted by abby

What...is wrong with you?

http://i.imgur.com/xMWs8.gif

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hes a noob/troll

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

BLM isn't 20% more powerful, and nobody that isn't BLM/whm is limited by MP. This would be an INSANE and totally unnecessary nerf.

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How about 10%? ;D

The trade-off for being limited by their MP when other damage-dealing classes aren't would be that BLM can attack effectively from a safe distance, they still have crazy AoE and they don't have to worry about positioning when it comes to combos. I'm not seeing how a damage nerf would be OMG INSANE.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The main problem was that BLMs could nuke heavily with no consequenses because of collusion. Now, they still gain some enmity, so they'll take hate sooner after the effect wears off.

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Nerfing collusion is nothing, it has barely made any sort of a difference to BLM. BLM's can still go to town after the tank gets a little hate, not to mention that nerfing collusion affects all classes, not just BLM.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

How about 10%? ;D

The trade-off for being limited by their MP when other damage-dealing classes aren't would be that BLM can attack effectively from a safe distance, they still have crazy AoE and they don't have to worry about positioning when it comes to combos. I'm not seeing how a damage nerf would be OMG INSANE.



Nerfing collusion is nothing, it has barely made any sort of a difference to BLM. BLM's can still go to town after the tank gets a little hate, not to mention that nerfing collusion affects all classes, not just BLM.

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so can all the other dds. and all the Other DDs got awesome buffs theres no reason to nerf Blm. Its working as intended the 1 spell line it has which will be gimp at ramuh or titan or and lightning based or earth based mobs. And you keep saying Fire line which is only good on trash mobs. And youll burn through you mp in no time against a boss mob.

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Originally Posted by Airget

o_O now I"m confused what exactly did they do to ARC/BRD aside from adding a recast to light shot when WS are used lol?

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Nothing to be confused about, you understood the change correctly.

or i guess you guys want Arc to return to the overpower job it use to be and ppl stacked Arc to everything and killed faster than Thm cause Thm didnt have refresh back then and once they ran outta mp they could do anything.

I'm jus wondering...is people complaining their loved class/job being badly nerfed because they can't play it well enough?

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Originally Posted by urhryu

I'm jus wondering...is people complaining their loved class/job being badly nerfed because they can't play it well enough?

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yup
/10char

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Nerfing collusion is nothing, it has barely made any sort of a difference to BLM. BLM's can still go to town after the tank gets a little hate, not to mention that nerfing collusion affects all classes, not just BLM.

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Funny, whenever I try this, the monster starts attacking me and I die.
Nuking totally all-out will either 1) run you out of MP, forcing you to sit around for a while to get it back, or 2) cause you to die or at least be disruptive to the fight.

As someone else pointed out, besides the nerf to collusion and WAR AoE most jobs got buffed. since BLM wasn't changed, that's another indirect nerf because other jobs got better while BLM stayed the same.

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Originally Posted by urhryu

I'm jus wondering...is people complaining their loved class/job being badly nerfed because they can't play it well enough?

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Hahahahahahaaa. You're hilarious.

truth hurts doesnt it

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

Alright, I'll try and tackle your points.
Ballad of Magi pretty much solves any MP issues they once had with the content we have right now (especially primals), and if the battle is long enough to put a BLM to zero MP, it really doesn't take too long of a rest period to bring it back to full again. I'd say your "2 mins or less" is also way off, black mages have to pace themselves to avoid getting hate.

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You're not getting it...1. Conserving MP = not damaging. BLM's aren't standing back there Auto-attacking. Therefore Melee DD's have an upper hand in keeping CONSTANT damage up. 2. While yes, Ballad helps, it REQUIRES having a Bard in the party to have it. It's not something a BLM can do to themselves to improve their own game. So yes, MP conservation is part of the game, but when talking raw damage, BLM needs to constantly Nuke to out DPS a traditional Melee and over a long battle, that gets harder and harder to do.

The 2 minutes thing: I was basing that on being able to keep constant nukes going ...like a DD can constantly DD. Without assuming you have a Bard in a Party. I understand it doesn't happen in practice due to reasons you mentioned (MP conservation/EMN) ...But that just proves my point. BLM has their limits already placed on them that forces their damage output to be lower than they potentially could dish out.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

As above, good black mages will pace themselves and watch their hate. They can still dish out crazy damage whilst being careful not to pull hate.

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Monk and Warrior and Lancer can all do crazy damage too. It's just their individual auto attack and WS/combo numbers are smaller, but constant. The main issue is in order to compete with BLM damage, Melee need to be able to stay more or less stationary and not spend time running from AOE damage....that is NOT Black Mage's fault. That is a battle mechanic fault. Black Mages are usually getting higher damage numbers not because they are the most awesome DD, but because they aren't as affected by mob ranged attacks and can keep doing Damage. Again, not a Black Mage problem...battle design problem.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

I disagree, BLM's with full AF might not have the ridiculous damage melded folks put out but are still pretty damn decent. Still a better choice thank MNK or DRG in most situations.

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It's not that AF doesn't support decent damage...BLM isn't just about your potential damage, you get resisted ONCE, and it can mess up your whole spell set/Mana pool. It's the resists BLM's are trying to avoid by upgrading their gears.


Basically at the end of the day, instead of asking to nerf a class/job because it can out-damage your preferred job/class and/or is 'stacked' more often than your favorite, maybe instead spend time asking for more varied content/battles etc. that make different classes/jobs specalists for that fight. There is nothing wrong with the damage output blm has. It's spike damage...Monk, WAR,Dragoon ALL do good damage too, it's just steady damage.