Frontline is Hot garbage.

When will they bring back that other modes?
I liked the Tower defence been like 4 years?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aeoncs

4 teams? Like, why would you go up instead of down? It should be 2 teams like in literally any other even remotely successful MMORPG PvP.

SE could release the most generic 10v10 / 15v15 battleground ever, with extremely simple objectives and no RNG and it would already be 5 times as good as Frontline.

---

yeah you're right, i was just suggesting someting but 2 teams would work much better

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prrringles

Frontline is a joke, seriously. One should roughly get 33% for 1st 2nd 3rd right? Generally speaking. Here is my weekly performance:

Campaigns: 79
1st Place 20 (25.0%)
2nd Place 23 (28.7%)
3rd Place 36 (45.0%)

Cool story SE. This is rediculous. And to think there are 7 mounts locked behind this dumb pvp mode. As a mount collector this pisses me off because I hate Frontline with a passion.

---

Git gud ? If I want to win I pick the the right job on the right map, and call out objectives from time to time (only drop a few words here and there). With the reworked pvp one person can literally wipe an enemy team, by forcing recuperate or straight up stealing kills and racking up BH in no time.

And if you don't know what to do, just go scholar on Borderland/Onsal day and dot everything mid. Or even summoner, or dragoon, or white mage.

I have close to a 40% winrate over 450 matches, and 30 this week.

I gotta say it's been getting better since the revamp. You still run the risk of running into people that just don't care and want to do their own thing. I saw a lot of close battles in Borderlands today. I was never on the right side of it, but it was still better than the runaways from before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

Git gud ?

---

This has nothing to do with it. I know my stuff. But thanks for automatically assuming I'm a trash tier player causing my team to place third lol. I wouldn't post here if I would feel that's the case.

Also I was talking about my weekly performance, not my overall performance which is better because I used to play back when you had a fixed grand company. My grand company apparently had the best players so we won a lot. I'm just pointing out that Frontline is a rng clown fest with blow-outs everywhere. Not even talking premades yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sr7olsniper

I dont usually post on the forums but I feel like this has literally pushed me over the edge. CC is great, it is fast paced and enjoyable. AT high rankings you have matches that could go either way and you feel like you contribute to the team performance. Frontlines on the other hand is absolute garbage. It is a zergfest with no direction. The fact that nodes spawn randomly makes it even worse, as you could be winning at one point and random RNG spawns could turn everything around and it would be impossible to recover. Another point is that the losing team could just give up and decide to troll the winning team at that point making it so that the second best wins.

The fact that you NEED 10 wins for the Garo mount is a total joke. I would take another 30 more wins of CC instead of the 10 for frontline any day. Heck make it another 60 wins of CC and it would still be better.

The new abilities totally to not fit this mode at all. Please either balance Frontlines, or remove it from the Garo event completely.

---

I got it done in like a couple of hours. FL is a blast. every one plays and matches are usually neck and neck. My only gripe is the map Shattered needs to go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prrringles

This has nothing to do with it. I know my stuff. But thanks for automatically assuming I'm a trash tier player causing my team to place third lol. I wouldn't post here if I would feel that's the case.

Also I was talking about my weekly performance, not my overall performance which is better because I used to play back when you had a fixed grand company. My grand company apparently had the best players so we won a lot. I'm just pointing out that Frontline is a rng clown fest with blow-outs everywhere. Not even talking premades yet.

---

Well you're saying the mode is trash and I say your own performance can very much shape the outcome to a sizeable degree. It's a clown fest if you have no clue what's happening. Frontlines has always been heavily rng, but it's always been possible to play around it. Sometimes odds are too stacked against you but you can see it coming.

Do good players play smn or is smn just op?

I love Frontlines. It's about all I play in this game anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

Well you're saying the mode is trash and I say your own performance can very much shape the outcome to a sizeable degree. It's a clown fest if you have no clue what's happening. Frontlines has always been heavily rng, but it's always been possible to play around it. Sometimes odds are too stacked against you but you can see it coming.

---

Shaping the outcome by yourself is near impossible with 71 other players running around. You "might" have an impact IF you play the right job on the right map. I don't like to play smn or sch just because they are broken in Frontline so I won't. I play whatever I think is fun and that should be enough (if SE thought this mode and job balance through). If you have to play the "meta flavour of the month" to win, something is clearly wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

It's a clown fest if you have no clue what's happening.

---

What if 20 people in your team have no clue what's happening? Most people just play Frontline to finish their daily roulette and don't care if they win or lose. I can play as sweaty as want but I will still lose when the majority of the team doesn't care. I have many friends who are experienced in pvp and all of them have different results. Even if we queue with 4 and go full sweaty we still feel the outcome is mostly rng. Not rewarding at all. That's why (amongst other concerns already voiced by others) I call this a trash mode. Imagine needing 200 wins to get a mount from a mode where you have virtually no control over the outcome.

I win about 5% above the rate I am supposed to in FL over 240+ games. I am convinced one person does matter.

That said, FL should probably not be taken seriously and is in fact a nightmarish mess of balance problems caused by the insane numbers of players on the map. Treat it like the causal mode it is and just have some fun with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prrringles

Shaping the outcome by yourself is near impossible with 71 other players running around. You "might" have an impact IF you play the right job on the right map. I don't like to play smn or sch just because they are broken in Frontline so I won't. I play whatever I think is fun and that should be enough (if SE thought this mode and job balance through). If you have to play the "meta flavour of the month" to win, something is clearly wrong.



What if 20 people in your team have no clue what's happening? Most people just play Frontline to finish their daily roulette and don't care if they win or lose. I can play as sweaty as want but I will still lose when the majority of the team doesn't care. I have many friends who are experienced in pvp and all of them have different results. Even if we queue with 4 and go full sweaty we still feel the outcome is mostly rng. Not rewarding at all. That's why (amongst other concerns already voiced by others) I call this a trash mode. Imagine needing 200 wins to get a mount from a mode where you have virtually no control over the outcome.

---

A buffed BH5 dragoon kills 10 lightly damaged players. GG you just won a teamfight and probably gave your team a few BH points on top so they can snowball too. YES you can shape the outcome by yourself. And that's not an IF, that's skill level and knowledge of the mode.

If you play whatever is fun and are enjoying it it's perfectly fine, I do too, but I don't go say the mode is garbage if I lose when I know I contributed less on red mage, and the enemy team has 5 summoners, 4 white mages, 3 scholars and 4 dragoons. Frontlines has never been balanced (especially with battle high) but at the very least with this version you yourself can have a greater impact than before.
Before that, it used to be about playing white mage, pulling buses of 10 players to tank and heal through around the map/pillars. It's actually still very much possible to pull buses away from objectives, but you just have to be reactive with your sprint and dodge CCs accordingly. Otherwise one single person had a much harder time to stand out.

Also if 20 people have no clue what's happening, chances are just as high that the same is true for the opponent, so this evens out. The same for nodes spawns, rng is rng for everyone. That's also why there are 3 teams. And if your 4-man premade can't make an impact, well... What I said. Even double summoner is absolutely devastating with a coordinated LB, especially on the 2 maps I mentioned. The real problem is that you're not enjoying the mode, which makes it harder to improve at it.

Guys, frontlines being a clown fiesta and players who know what they’re doing having noticeable influence over a match aren’t mutually exclusive things.

Yes battle highs, pings, lbs, etc… can sway a match, let’s not act like those things aren’t all in the game for individual players to have an influence. Small groups of premades determine matches all the time.

But let’s also not go around pretending like it’s not a clown fiesta when single players influencing the match is only a thing due to 80% of players in frontlines being clowns to begin with. The balance is an absolute mess, and chain cc is insanely obnoxious with that many players. The only reason that indefinite CC locks outside of purify aren’t a thing is because most players aren’t pressing buttons.

I very much look forward to a CC nerf, probably the biggest detriment to PvP at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

A buffed BH5 dragoon kills 10 lightly damaged players. GG you just won a teamfight and probably gave your team a few BH points on top so they can snowball too. YES you can shape the outcome by yourself. And that's not an IF, that's skill level and knowledge of the mode.

If you play whatever is fun and are enjoying it it's perfectly fine, I do too, but I don't go say the mode is garbage if I lose when I know I contributed less on red mage, and the enemy team has 5 summoners, 4 white mages, 3 scholars and 4 dragoons. Frontlines has never been balanced (especially with battle high) but at the very least with this version you yourself can have a greater impact than before.
Before that, it used to be about playing white mage, pulling buses of 10 players to tank and heal through around the map/pillars. It's actually still very much possible to pull buses away from objectives, but you just have to be reactive with your sprint and dodge CCs accordingly. Otherwise one single person had a much harder time to stand out.

Also if 20 people have no clue what's happening, chances are just as high that the same is true for the opponent, so this evens out. The same for nodes spawns, rng is rng for everyone. That's also why there are 3 teams. And if your 4-man premade can't make an impact, well... What I said. Even double summoner is absolutely devastating with a coordinated LB, especially on the 2 maps I mentioned. The real problem is that you're not enjoying the mode, which makes it harder to improve at it.

---

I "mostly" agree with what you say but rng always favours one side. I'ts not so much about me personally failing at this mode. Me (and my friends) know how FL works. We can queue as 4 sch and pretty much slap. That's also my point. This mode is just crap because there is zero balance. Some jobs are totally broken in FL while others are completely useless. It's not fun. Same could be said about CC but people tend to care less because games are shorter. The fact that there are also no deminishing returns on stuns/silence/slows is also something that makes pvp in this game frustrating. In this state I just hate playing it but SE decided to give it 7 mounts. That's the only reason I play FL.

Because currently they only balance for CC. Frontlines were by far better before the rework, not saying they were perfect but playable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cpt_Jack_Irons

smaller team sizes are needed but i would either go for having 4 teams instead because with 3 teams at least one of the teams always gets pincered

---

by 3 i think se if trying to hint that maaybe 2nd/3rd points holder should gang on the 1st points holder.
works worse than ever atm.

Despite the blatant imbalance and obnoxious CCs, I enjoy FL much more simply because there are so many possibilities now, and you can even play around your team comp. Yes there are less skilled players, but after a few games even an average summoner will know to LB on big nodes.

See a few big aoe jobs on your team but no tank ? Go Drk and group them all up, your mates will thank you (no they won't) for the sweet BH stacks.
Conversely, snow map with outer nodes and everyone mid ? Go red mage for the super good small scale kit because you can be sure it will be small skirmishes since few people tend to go there.
The list goes on and I find myself playing FL more than anything for the sheer variety of possibilities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

I find myself playing FL more than anything for the sheer variety of possibilities.

---

Pretty sure you could do the same thing before the revamp too. And you didn't have to battle against constant cc and random deaths because someone two screens away decided to click you.
We probably had even more possibilities back then since we actually had different roles instead of everyone being an LB bot dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowIQ

It's exactly how it's supposed to be.
It's a casual mode with a lot of randomness by design. It's a three-way battle with random teams, it's obviously not meant to be taken in an ultraserious tryhard way.
Just have fun hitting people and not feeding too much. You will get your wins / achievements / mounts eventually.

At least that's how it was before they revamped the pvp...

---

Its not supposed to be taken seriously, so lets lock 100 win achievment mounts and glams behind it or else they will forget we are japanese devs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cesarion

Its not supposed to be taken seriously, so lets lock 100 win achievment mounts and glams behind it or else they will forget we are japanese devs

---

PvP is full of long term goals because it is quite fast and spammable content :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowIQ

Pretty sure you could do the same thing before the revamp too. And you didn't have to battle against constant cc and random deaths because someone two screens away decided to click you.
We probably had even more possibilities back then since we actually had different roles instead of everyone being an LB bot dps.

---

The possibilities were way more limited back then, and the top performers also picked the meta jobs (except the meta jobs feel much more different between each other now). I miss the subtleties of picking role-specific actions but the rest definitely feels bland in comparison to what we have now. There is a lot of imbalance, but tanks feel very different depending on the map, and the same for healers. That being said I also kind of miss being an unkillable whm tank with some pillars to play around.

Also constant CCs yes, please nerf. That would make the dmg spikes much more bearable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowIQ

It's exactly how it's supposed to be.
It's a casual mode with a lot of randomness by design. It's a three-way battle with random teams, it's obviously not meant to be taken in an ultraserious tryhard way.
Just have fun hitting people and not feeding too much. You will get your wins / achievements / mounts eventually.

At least that's how it was before they revamped the pvp...

---

Making Frontline a simpler 12v12 or 16v16 gamemode would still keep it Casual but would make Frontline much more fun as you dont have to deal with the awful queue times of current frontline and also reduce the fustrating ganking and LB spamming that plagues current Frontline

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cpt_Jack_Irons

Making Frontline a simpler 12v12 or 16v16 gamemode would still keep it Casual but would make Frontline much more fun as you dont have to deal with the awful queue times of current frontline and also reduce the fustrating ganking and LB spamming that plagues current Frontline

---

what awful queue times? I've never waited more than around 5 minutes. Also, while I like the large number of players, if the numbers were reduced I expect that the map size would also likely be reduced - in which case if your main complaint is being ganked or LBed then nothing would really change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

what awful queue times? I've never waited more than around 5 minutes. Also, while I like the large number of players, if the numbers were reduced I expect that the map size would also likely be reduced - in which case if your main complaint is being ganked or LBed then nothing would really change.

---

They don't have to reduce the map size. I know when it used to allow 8v8v8 at odd hours, the nodes on the map would actually be removed from certain spots (such as shatter had a lot less of them and seize also wouldn't spawn as many at once) so they could easily flip the switch again. Just kinda feels bad right now playing BahamutLines :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

what awful queue times? I've never waited more than around 5 minutes. Also, while I like the large number of players, if the numbers were reduced I expect that the map size would also likely be reduced - in which case if your main complaint is being ganked or LBed then nothing would really change.

---

if not playing at peak hours ive had some times where queuing took multiple minutes and smaller lobbies would make queue times much more faster, also the ganking comment was more in regards to the 1v1v1 team set up and id much prefer a 1v1 team set up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cpt_Jack_Irons

if not playing at peak hours ive had some times where queuing took multiple minutes and smaller lobbies would make queue times much more faster, also the ganking comment was more in regards to the 1v1v1 team set up and id much prefer a 1v1 team set up

---

A 1v1 team would kill this specific format. Frontlines maps are too rng in essence to have that.
Smaller teams would feel bad too, some maps are just too big, and the likelihood of being matched with complete noobs or at the opposite very good players would skew the game mode too much. With bigger numbers everything is smoothed out, and even then you still have some terribly one sided matches.

They need to come up with an in between, and/or rework Rival Wings, which I think they're doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

A 1v1 team would kill this specific format. Frontlines maps are too rng in essence to have that.
Smaller teams would feel bad too, some maps are just too big, and the likelihood of being matched with complete noobs or at the opposite very good players would skew the game mode too much. With bigger numbers everything is smoothed out, and even then you still have some terribly one sided matches.

They need to come up with an in between, and/or rework Rival Wings, which I think they're doing.

---

id much prefer a 1v1 between two big teams than the custerf*ck that is current frontline unless that's what rival wings basically is as i have not tried rival wings and the gamemode is currently unavailable to play so i could not test it even if i wanted to

Not many people have the tolerance of getting dominated the entire match. A 1v1 format may be more fun, but you're inevitably just going to end up seeing more throws, afks, and giving up in general.

It often feels like the team with more SMN, MCH and WHM has the advantage sometimes. I still try as Scholar, but have yet to get decent dmg or healing numbers. If I get into range to use my abilities other than Seraph then I'm cc'd and carpet bombed almost instantly.

Frontline isn't fun anymore, too much crowd control. Getting stun locked, heavy, imped and everything else while you get killed isn't fun. There needs to be diminishing returns on crowd control.

I'm going to agree here, FL is miserable now. I despise this fast paced MOBA combat where everyone is a DPS to begin with so I have avoided CC. Frontline now is just nothing but deathball, SMN/WHM synching their LBs on every point, and PLD pre-mades invulning and letting their teammates cap points while taking no damage. I'm done with PvP entirely once I slog through my last 2 wins for the silver pony.

I used to try, used to shot-call, used to make an effort. Due to the easy ability to stack wombo-combos with a premade it doesn't matter anymore. I'll just min effort for my daily XP on the last job I'm leveling then never do PvP again.

EDIT: 1 more win. I used to look forward to daily FL on certain days (I'm one of the few who actually liked Shatter). Now all I look forward to is being done with the GARO mount achievements so I don't have to do it anymore. Good god, post-6.1 PvP sucks.

Why do you think most old frontliners stopped going or quit the game?

Hoping for changes? Forget it. Months later and at best some slightly potency changes...
Hoping for RW revival? Forget it. They would need to redo the whole skill set to make it work.

Shatter's my favorite. Secure is my least favorite. I hate all of the overabundance of SMN and WHM in all modes, though. Diminishing returns on AOE is necessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGrimace

Shatter's my favorite. Secure is my least favorite. I hate all of the overabundance of SMN and WHM in all modes, though. Diminishing returns on AOE is necessary.

---

Secure is definitely the most boring and there isn't even a wins achievement tied to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issaella

I'll just min effort for my daily XP on the last job I'm leveling then never do PvP again.

---

Please don't do this. Not only is it being a dick to the teammates unfortunate enough to have you sandbagging their team, it's a direct violation of the Terms of Service.

If you don't want to PvP, *then don't queue for PvP.* There are a ton of ways of getting XP if you don't enjoy PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Please don't do this. Not only is it being a dick to the teammates unfortunate enough to have you sandbagging their team, it's a direct violation of the Terms of Service.

If you don't want to PvP, *then don't queue for PvP.* There are a ton of ways of getting XP if you don't enjoy PvP.

---

Translation - "I want to speak to your manager. I don't think you are putting enough effort into your *insert menial underpayed job* service to me".

I basically only play meme specs at this point and I guarantee my "min effort" is considerable more than all the people feeding on points surrounded by half a dozen Slipstreams/Bahamuts or getting run over by a deathball migrating from a nearby point clearly visible on the map. I will reiterate, with how little effect individual performance has on FL now due to the ability to stack wombo-combos in premade groups or just coordinating them in /a what does it matter? I used to shot-call regularly pre-6.1 and swung 2nd/3rds into wins a good number of times. Now, good luck, coordination means jack all when the other team can carpet-bomb every point with SMN/WHM stacking or PLD can allow their teammates to invul-cap a point you are actively defending. So I'll just join the fad and play SMN/WHM until I get my wins then not engage with it any more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issaella

Translation - "I want to speak to your manager. I don't think you are putting enough effort into your *insert menial underpayed job* service to me".

I basically only play meme specs at this point and I guarantee my "min effort" is considerable more than all the people feeding on points surrounded by half a dozen Slipstreams/Bahamuts or getting run over by a deathball migrating from a nearby point clearly visible on the map. I will reiterate, with how little effect individual performance has on FL now due to the ability to stack wombo-combos in premade groups or just coordinating them in /a what does it matter? I used to shot-call regularly pre-6.1 and swung 2nd/3rds into wins a good number of times. Now, good luck, coordination means jack all when the other team can carpet-bomb every point with SMN/WHM stacking or PLD can allow their teammates to invul-cap a point you are actively defending. So I'll just join the fad and play SMN/WHM until I get my wins then not engage with it any more.

---

Individual performance matters more than ever.

I'm sorry that you just suck at the game, but you should stop blaming the game for your own inadequacies.

So we go from Karen "I want to speak to your manager" to "if you don't like FL you suck at it" in less than 2 posts. Keep up the good work my dude.

Individual performance is meaningless in FL right now. PLD/DRK premades can invul-cap points, there is no counterplay to that, none. If you have a premade on the other team doing that, you might as well just walk away from the point when they show up. SMN/WHM premades can literally dominate points through area denial/AoE that can't be countered (spoiler: this is going to be much worse now with the BLM buffs). Once the Slipstreams and Bahamuts are out you have no option to contest the point except feeding or waiting it out. Coordination/shotcalling is similarly useless unless you have a bunch of meme spec premades already. If the other team has more SMN/WHM or some other meme spec composition they can just run you over with deathball. In FL right now success is entirely dependent on which team has more meme specs and can coordinate them most efficiently.

This isn't even mentioning the high percentage of 2v1 matches since 6.1 (whether that is being driven by mods is debatable, but I would argue it's probably). In 3 years of playing I could count the number of 2v1 matches on one hand. Now it seems like every other match 2 of the teams aren't fighting each other at all and only engaging the third team. If you are odd man out in the arrangement you might as well just run circles around spawn to get it over with quicker.

My thoughts go back to one of my favorite comedy movies in regards to FL right now. In Office Space where the the 2 Bobs are questioning Peter about how much work he does and he says "It's a problem of motivation alright? Now if I work my *** off and Innertech ships a few extra units I don't see an extra dime. So where is the motivation?" Just substitute "dime" for "win", that's how FL feels at the moment unless you are rolling with a premade every match.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issaella

So we go from Karen "I want to speak to your manager" to "if you don't like FL you suck at it" in less than 2 posts. Keep up the good work my dude.

Individual performance is meaningless in FL right now. PLD/DRK premades can invul-cap points, there is no counterplay to that, none. If you have a premade on the other team doing that, you might as well just walk away from the point when they show up. SMN/WHM premades can literally dominate points through area denial/AoE that can't be countered (spoiler: this is going to be much worse now with the BLM buffs). Once the Slipstreams and Bahamuts are out you have no option to contest the point except feeding or waiting it out. Coordination/shotcalling is similarly useless unless you have a bunch of meme spec premades already. If the other team has more SMN/WHM or some other meme spec composition they can just run you over with deathball. In FL right now success is entirely dependent on which team has more meme specs and can coordinate them most efficiently.

This isn't even mentioning the high percentage of 2v1 matches since 6.1 (whether that is being driven by mods is debatable, but I would argue it's probably). In 3 years of playing I could count the number of 2v1 matches on one hand. Now it seems like every other match 2 of the teams aren't fighting each other at all and only engaging the third team. If you are odd man out in the arrangement you might as well just run circles around spawn to get it over with quicker.

My thoughts go back to one of my favorite comedy movies in regards to FL right now. In Office Space where the the 2 Bobs are questioning Peter about how much work he does and he says "It's a problem of motivation alright? Now if I work my *** off and Innertech ships a few extra units I don't see an extra dime. So where is the motivation?" Just substitute "dime" for "win", that's how FL feels at the moment unless you are rolling with a premade every match.

---

Again: you just suck at the game. You should accept that and then decide if you want to try and improve or not, rather than make outright false claims in an attempt to justify your whining.

Individual performance *absolutely* matters. You can literally look at the scoreboard and see that. Just because *your* individual performance leaves something to be desired doesn't mean it doesn't matter. But if you're going to decide that you don't want to try and improve, can you at least please stop whining?