6.1 PvP: Amazing!!

anyone else have their sound suddenly muted?

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Originally Posted by hagare

anyone else have their sound suddenly muted?

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Yup, happened just as my first match started. Had to restart the client to fix it.

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Originally Posted by imcrazyd

CC is way unbalanced and needs to have the same party structure on each team. I understand why they removed required roles, but it's a negative impact on the matches themselves. If you have 4 dps on one team and only 2 on the other the latter team always gets ripped to shreds no matter what makes up the party after it. It could be fun, but at the moment it's not.

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The concept of roles should just go away in pvp honestly and that is what I thought they were going to do when they said there would be no role restrictions. Granted they "sort of" did that, but there's still flavor to tanks and healers that probably shouldn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I know many may not like what I'm going to say but, they should remove crowd control completely.

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No one would ever die...

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Problem is that the second you do premade vs premade you will kill the short queue times we have currently. We'll be back to 30m wait times.

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That's why I suggested ranked only mode for premades, because that one will be the least popular.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

No one would ever die...

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That's extremely untrue as people's HP pools are much more finite then they were prior to the revamp due to healing being on cooldowns or tied to your limited MP pool.

It arguably makes people live longer much of the time as the CC spam is buying more time for their heals to come off cooldown or in more extreme cases even permitting you to get a potion off.

I love it personally, especially considering what we had.. and I'm not usually a PVP fan in most games (Lost ark was pretty fun for a while) - Sure getting out of Bronze is luck, but every well earned win, or last minute comeback feels great regardless of rank to me :)

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

That's extremely untrue as people's HP pools are much more finite then they were prior to the revamp due to healing being on cooldowns or tied to your limited MP pool.

It arguably makes people live longer much of the time as the CC spam is buying more time for their heals to come off cooldown or in more extreme cases even permitting you to get a potion off.

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Everyone has a self heal and many jobs have skills that also heal. Sage for example without CC would basically never die. Heck even now I only die once or twice a match with all the CC.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That's why I suggested ranked only mode for premades, because that one will be the least popular.

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Ranked pops in like 30s right now due to casuals trying it out and the low bar to entry. Remove the casuals and you will be right back to The Feast situation where people get their rank and sit on it.

I hate the daily frontline rotation just let me play all of them

It's definitely the best it's ever been. Even Frontlines is much improved with overpowered healers gone. Job balance is kinda whack but that can be improved, more importantly the jobs feel unique despite the limited movesets. It's a lot easier to just jump in and contribute. Crystal Conflict is also good as a fast casual mode, easy to understand, small groups and fast matches so the queues pop often.

There are some aspects of the game infrastructure and netcode which will mean XIV will never be able to be a serious hardcore PvP game, most obviously the excessive delay between pressing an action and having the effects apply. But as a casual chaotic brawl it's really fun. It feels kinda like 8 player Smash Bros. Sure it's "competitive" in the sense that there's winners and losers but you can't take it too seriously as a skill-based contest, and that's fine.

I think the series system is a pretty good idea and seems overall fairly well executed, although I would like to see a series exp bonus on the daily Frontlines challenge because right now its much more exp efficient to spam Crystal Conflict.

This is the best balance pvp has ever had in the game

Just remove mch chance to one hit kill, there is literally 0 counterplay to it

As someone who previously did PVP solely for experience while greatly disliking it. New PVP is pretty enjoyable now.

They have seriously messed up DNC. How can a tanks pull in ability have further range than a DNC regular attack? DNC has been turned into practically a melee class for PVP.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

They have seriously messed up DNC. How can a tanks pull in ability have further range than a DNC regular attack? DNC has been turned into practically a melee class for PVP.

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It seems like, overall, melee is king in this new mode. SMN, however, can be an absolute nightmare to deal with. They've got AoE attacks and binds just about any time they need them. I've messed with it a bit and it is fun to play, but it's not always fun to be on the receiving end. Regardless, I've had my butt kicked by every class in the game in some way or another. I think for some it's just about being in the right hands.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It seems like, overall, melee is king in this new mode. SMN, however, can be an absolute nightmare to deal with. They've got AoE attacks and binds just about any time they need them. I've messed with it a bit and it is fun to play, but it's not always fun to be on the receiving end.

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DNC has less than 1/3 the range it used to have. I get dragged all the way across the middle platform of Onsal Hakair by tanks, but can't hit someone in the middle from the top of the ramp.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

DNC has less than 1/3 the range it used to have. I get dragged all the way across the middle platform of Onsal Hakair by tanks, but can't hit someone in the middle from the top of the ramp.

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Oh yeah, that's not right at all. Job balance and design certain has its issues in CC.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Oh yeah, that's not right at all. Job balance and design certain has its issues in CC.

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I haven't even tried CC yet...just frontlines twice, and with how badly balanced it is right now(died multiple times from 100% health in 1 hit), I feel they should remove ALL PVP until it's fixed.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I haven't even tried CC yet...just frontlines twice, and with how badly balanced it is right now(died multiple times from 100% health in 1 hit), I feel they should remove ALL PVP until it's fixed.

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In my opinion, everything has a pretty decent foundation now. It just needs work to make it passable for most people. Maybe a lot of work, even. Balance really is all over the dang place.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That's why I suggested ranked only mode for premades, because that one will be the least popular.

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Just a thought, not sure if it would work - how about including a tick box in duty finder setting allowing solo queuer to choose if they would be willing to fight premades?

I imagine more experienced PVPers would welcome the challenge of fighting more coordinated opponents (also not all premades are PvP premades - they could just be FCs or friends playing together), while casuals can opt out to avoid being steamrolled while still learning.

Although I imagine this needs to be casual mode only and not in ranked mode (or maybe some people are happy for it to be in ranked mode too?)

Its interesting to see all the negativity here about the mode when I've never seen PvP so active, and all I hear are positives in game with people raving about how much they love the pvp changes.
Forums will always be a breeding ground for negativity I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Its interesting to see all the negativity here about the mode when I've never seen PvP so active, and all I hear are positives in game with people raving about how much they love the pvp changes.
Forums will always be a breeding ground for negativity I suppose.

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The only complaints I have seen in game are "party que". Everyone acts like this came out of nowhere and that SE can properly balance parties into ranked matches.

So far, Crystalline Conflict has been great. There are some balance issues, but overall it seems like a good foundation.

Frontlines, on the other hand, is much worse than it used to be. The first couple of days were fine, but now people have started to organize and just cheese the mode. Groups of 4 summoners and/or 4 dragoons will wait until their LBs come up, and then LB all at the same time to destroy entire alliances. Dragoons, for the most part, you can see coming and try to escape the instant death, but Summoners being able to do it at range and near instantly mean there's no counterplay. So the mode is likely to be infested by such groups in larger and larger numbers until people get annoyed/frustrated and just stop playing.

Not sure what the solution would be (or even if it needs one, since I suppose some people like stomp fests), but it's quickly gone from "Wow, these new abilities are great and Frontlines is fun" to "Oh, did we all just instantly die to 4 megaflares again? Ok, that team is organized. Just let them win so we can move on to the next match and hope there's not another stomp group."

The Stuns. My lord the stuns need to be toned down. The amount of damage and lower healing does not require this many stuns.

WHOOHOO I GOT A DRAW.
Wait. You can get a draw!?

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Originally Posted by hagare

WHOOHOO I GOT A DRAW.
Wait. You can get a draw!?

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So with stars count as a win or loss?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

So with stars count as a win or loss?

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draws count as a win for both sides

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I've played it so far on SCH and BLM.

SCH:

- Adlo is too weak to matter and two infrequent to even get the charges. Either this should be buffed to provide a bigger shield or give more charges of it with a lower cd. I rather them give me Excog then try to use Deployment Tactics on this weak heal. Healers overall feel alil weak but I think SCH is the worse.


BLM:

- LB should be more in line with the Melee DPS imo. 17k foul + instant casts seems underpowered compared to say DRG which is 30k+ damage + AoE. You can pretty much outheal the damage from the BLM LB with little issue and the CC still requiring the build up (Umbral I ->> Umbral III) does not compensate.
- Night Wing is a joke with the half sleep. Remove it and make it an instant sleep spell. Sleep is one of the weakest afflictions in PVP cause anyone can tap you and that's it. You can Purify Half Sleep status (4seconds) as well iirc, meaning that you have a chance of already eliminating the secondary affect on Night Wing (6k potency tapping sleeping target) before it even goes off.


The stuns are a bit much maybe last just alil too long. Sleep and Freeze have harsher diminishing returns (does not work after first use for some time) whereas I feel I'm getting stunlocked straight to death from full HP. Incredibly powerful on the Volcano map as well.

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Just to help you out since I have played both of these alot.


Adlo is very strong on SCH. I regularly get more healing on SCH than the WHMs in my matches. The key here is to pair a deployed adlo with a recited deploy bio. Reducing incoming DMG by 15% and adding a 22.5k dot on top of that is so devastating especially since the only way to deal with a dot is to burn heals or disengage. You can put up alot of pressure. And with how frequent adlo is up you should be deploying very often.


As for BLM, at least right now, you should be stacking things up and baiting out CC and purifies. If they take the time to purify your half sleep, then they are vulnerable for 25 seconds. Smack the target not being focused with it and let them waste their purify. Then when it comes time to burst them they have nothing left to save themselves. Also, you can stack your debuffs even while they are guarding. That way, the insta they unguard you can freeze/burn them immediately. LBs like SAM and DRG are braindead right now because people don't know what they are doing. You can see when a DRG has LB. And if he suddenly becomes untargettable you know to spread apart. You can even see where he will learn. I understand that is hard to do right now because of how chaotic and new everything is. But that is a skill you MUST pick up to be a better player.




That said, most PVP complaints come from just being bad at PVP. I'm not saying that to flex since I still have a lot to learn when it comes to the mode. But people need to realize that they aren't some PVP god that's being held back by the randoms noobs they get partnered with. There's tons to learn and improve on. ANd the faster you realize that, the faster start ranking up and getting your wins. The only things I think might get nerfed are WHM's imp and WAR's stun on primal rend. Less so primal rend since people just need to learn to spread out. Imp is oppressive but it's effectively an uncleansable silence.

The only thing I wish from this mode is to not show characters’ names at all, like in Frontline lol.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

The only things I think might get nerfed are WHM's imp and WAR's stun on primal rend. Less so primal rend since people just need to learn to spread out. Imp is oppressive but it's effectively an uncleansable silence.

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Primal rend absolutely needs to be nerfed. It needs to either be a single target gap closing stun or remove the gap closer and leave it an aoe stun. Ninja LB also needs to be nerfed. Allowing them to be able to do potentially two LB's is stupid. Would also be nice if we got a damn audio queue when someone uses an LB so we can at least have a chance to react to it.

Yea it’s fantastic!

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

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I get how to play both but they still fail comparatively to their counterparts. WHM is hands down the strongest healer. This is proven by the overwhelming appearance in Silver up and by the kit they have which is overtuned versus the others. I would argue AST does a better job at it then SCH does. For me its closer to WHM> AST/ SGE> SCH atm.

I stand by my issues with BLM. They have almost no burst (which is ok if it's just a CC supportish class for the most part), but factoring Stuns/Binds, they have very little options.
- Freeze - A decently timed one, takes 3 - 4 casts (None instant unless LB). Either Ice -> Paradox -> Super Flare or Ice x3 -> Super Flare
- Sleep - Night Wing; 4 seconds of half sleep (person can still move attack and heal, just a countdown to sleep, can be purfied), and THEN 4 seconds of sleep that if target woken deals 6k potency. You could argue maybe this is fair cause it's AoE but...a bit long to setup.
- Stun - INSTANT Cast, In nins case 2x 2second stuns
- Bind - INSTANT Cast
-Silence - Instant Cast

This is not to mention that casts can be interrupted by LoS and weird turn around / run through sillyness. Which is another slap in the face when dealing with melee.


By comparison, SMN feels far more smooth and does more or less the same thing + has a stronger LB. Night Wing deserves to be an immediate sleep because it is infinitely worse then Stun (in actuality) and by having diminishing returns as well.

Now if they change Stun and lower the duration or add a diminishing return on that, I think that would drastically improve the situation because having a team of WAR + NIN / SAM + WHM is just not fun and no amount of playstyle will cover for the amount of synergy such a party will have. You can get stunlocked from full HP to death. Purify for it's cd /charges is simply not enough.

This may not be the technical analysis others may make, but from a purely selfish point of view, I love it.

I have been playing this game for a very, very long time. I've seen it all as it happened. That said, whatever the general consensus may be, Crystalline Conflict might be my favorite content ever added to the game. I really only play for the story as expansions and patches come out these days, but this PvP revamp has had me playing game after game, and thinking about logging in to play more.

Simply put, I am having an absolute blast. Well done.

Still to Early to give analysis from me
But I would like a different Que or a duo addition wouldn't hurt to have

It's a real fun mode! I've done enough to get to series level 17 and been having a blast. The balance definitely needs work, but it is at least way better than the feast. As far as the changes that I think need to be made:

-Stun on Primal rend removed or made single target.
-Bind on hyokaze remove or made single target
-Bind needs to be fixed where it doesn't prevent you from turning.
-whm LB cd should be 90 seconds and not 60. That or tone it down a little.

Underperformers (reaper, sch, blm, dnc) all need buffs but I don't have any recommendations. But in the meantime, I just play the busted jobs and have a good time.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Would also be nice if we got a damn audio queue when someone uses an LB so we can at least have a chance to react to it.

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They'd need to give LBs an actual cast time because the damage is locked in the instant you hit the action presently, so even if you say, guard or stun a MCH the instant you see their LB animation start happening you'll still take the hit.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

So with stars count as a win or loss?

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I did not pay attention to that xD

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They'd need to give LBs an actual cast time because the damage is locked in the instant you hit the action presently, so even if you say, guard or stun a MCH the instant you see their LB animation start happening you'll still take the hit.

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I don't see the problem here. They shouldn't be that instantaneous anyways. Dying from 100% out of nowhere and not knowing what the hell killed you is extremely frustrating.

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Originally Posted by hagare

anyone else have their sound suddenly muted?

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This is a really old and extremely rare problem that I first encountered back in ARR. All game sounds just randomly die, and the only way to fix it is to restart the game. I've no idea what causes it and it only seems to happen a few times a year at most. One thought I had was the game not liking my discrete sound card, but seeing as I have no way to really test it with it being as rare as it is, I've never bothered.

That said, it did happen to me during one match, yes.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I don't see the problem here. They shouldn't be that instantaneous anyways. Dying from 100% out of nowhere and not knowing what the hell killed you is extremely frustrating.

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Not saying it is a problem, just that audio cues on their own wouldn't help in the current state of things since you're basically dead the instant they hit the button.

The amount of times I've seen the NIN LB snapshot and kill someone who was at full HP is kind of goofy.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

They have seriously messed up DNC. How can a tanks pull in ability have further range than a DNC regular attack? DNC has been turned into practically a melee class for PVP.

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I have to agree I love the new PVP but this is a issue...I thought I was doing it wrong haha! I had to get closer and closer and Dancer is quite squishy so I was toast.

The other thing is the animation lock I get stuck in.