More unneccesary nerfs to older content

Actually... I don't think those changes are completely for us. Remember how they are going to add Trusts to those dungeons? Can you imagine how bad it would be if your tank npc just got yeeted off a cliff? If it was a person than yeah they will adjust, but your npc tank is going to do the same stupid thing each time unless you figure out a way to adjust that boss.

Yeah it kind of sucks we lose the immersion from not being able to revive someone who shouldn't even have a body on the field at that point, though. The could have even made it where if you lose an npc down a hole, another one just runs in as reinforcements.

Honestly, I am thrilled at them removing permadeath from Titan. I cannot tell you how many times ping and snapshotting made me die to landslide >>

A pretty large section of the playerbase only play it as a singleplayer MSQ game and for casual side activities.
I wish it was different but meh...
I just want more challenging endgame content and also harder versions of dungeons, but if they actually rewarded you accordingly people would get mad for '' being left out ''...
Which is just dumb imho, most people who get mad because they can't get BiS or whatever aren't even doing content where that matters at all.

Imo tho I do think that this hurts the first impression of the game a lot, I hear it over and over again how people start playing the game and call the game braindead easy even with the trials.
It doesn't help that the '' hard mode '' versions aren't even hard.
'' Hard mode Titan '' is like easy mode lol, while the normal mode is story mode.

But yeah it's one of my biggest issues with the game, a lot of the content simply isn't engaging at all because of how easy it is and how you can quite literally stand in and ignore mechanics altogether and barely take damage.
Imo I think they should at some point just go all in on the Trust System and make it the solo experience and then significantly up the difficulty in the party content.
I really don't think that it's healthy for a game long term to cater so hard to people who don't even want to try, after they're done with the MSQ it doesn't really matter anymore.

I mean at some point you have to gatekeep, when you make the game to be easy enough for the most low skill level player who are just completely hopeless at the game then you're severely compromising it for most other people.
I don't think that the game should be compromised for the majority because a minority click one button every five sec and can't move out of an AoE circle with a 10 sec cast time.

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Originally Posted by Thorio

Which in practice changes nothing. No offense.

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How and why would you learn if the game doesn't incentivize you to learn?
If anything nerfed content just makes the average player worse.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

How and why would you learn if the game doesn't incentivize you to learn?
If anything nerfed content just makes the average player worse.

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It can also make others not wish to play at all. Right now being able to play together is what has kept many friends going past post ARR.

Am watching them mess around as I type this stuffs in older dungeons by seeing how much they can skip. Did you know with Holmgang you can skip the entire first pull of Stone Vigil and just sack into first boss? Pretty fricken neat! Recently discovered you can skip 80% of Vale too. Nearly entire frog death canyon can be skipped in Darkhold by grabbing first two mobs then falling. Kinda sadness inducing watching someone going so mad they give up on proper leveling and just start doing random sack runs to get the heck out of the dungeon faster. Oh well!

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

A pretty large section of the playerbase only play it as a singleplayer MSQ game and for casual side activities.
I wish it was different but meh...
I just want more challenging endgame content and also harder versions of dungeons, but if they actually rewarded you accordingly people would get mad for '' being left out ''...
Which is just dumb imho, most people who get mad because they can't get BiS or whatever aren't even doing content where that matters at all.

Imo tho I do think that this hurts the first impression of the game a lot, I hear it over and over again how people start playing the game and call the game braindead easy even with the trials.
It doesn't help that the '' hard mode '' versions aren't even hard.
'' Hard mode Titan '' is like easy mode lol, while the normal mode is story mode.

But yeah it's one of my biggest issues with the game, a lot of the content simply isn't engaging at all because of how easy it is and how you can quite literally stand in and ignore mechanics altogether and barely take damage.
Imo I think they should at some point just go all in on the Trust System and make it the solo experience and then significantly up the difficulty in the party content.
I really don't think that it's healthy for a game long term to cater so hard to people who don't even want to try, after they're done with the MSQ it doesn't really matter anymore.

I mean at some point you have to gatekeep, when you make the game to be easy enough for the most low skill level player who are just completely hopeless at the game then you're severely compromising it for most other people.
I don't think that the game should be compromised for the majority because a minority click one button every five sec and can't move out of an AoE circle with a 10 sec cast time.



How and why would you learn if the game doesn't incentivize you to learn?
If anything nerfed content just makes the average player worse.

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Landslide famously an aoe with 10s telegraph. Do people even read what they are posting?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

How and why would you learn if the game doesn't incentivize you to learn?
If anything nerfed content just makes the average player worse.

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Those opportunities to learn are still very much abundant in the game. Be it with interacting with Morbol fruits in Aurum Vale or teaching you to use the crystal areas in order to avoid Eyes on Me, or driving the All-seeing eye into the platform to make him vulnerable. These learning opportunities only grow more abundant later on in story content.

In the case of the trials, any mechanic which results in your permanent incapacitation in the fight only detracts away from your ability to learn and practice/execute said mechanic. If they aren't alive, and if they can't be resurrected then they have no chance aside from sitting on by. Maybe they'll see a glimmer of how the mechanics work, maybe they won't. But regardless of the circumstance unless they wipe, they won't be gaining that opportunity to learn. You can have a player fall off in Titan (hard) and spend the entire time sitting around like a corpse and still clear the encounter without them having actually practiced anything meaningful. So in these events, once again. They actually detract away from a learning opportunity. Whether their death is permanent or not. The fact remains that failing the mechanic will kill them, and not giving them the chance to practice it again outside of wiping is bad game design. Not to mention it unnecessarily ultimately punishes the entire group by forcing them to pick up the slack or to spend needless time incessantly hitting an enrage.

I don’t care if they want to remove perma-death from the normal modes, but it should have remained in Extreme. The point of EX is it’s supposed to be harder and more punishing…

The flash aoes in the Burn pissed me off the first time I ran it because prior you had been trained to watch for the aoes. Now, my habit is "Follow the person who has run this before" and it rarely steered me wrong.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don’t care if they want to remove perma-death from the normal modes, but it should have remained in Extreme. The point of EX is it’s supposed to be harder and more punishing…

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You'll have to come back when unreal versions of those trials are in rotation because potency creep and new jobs have made old ex trials a joke even synced. And this is all ignoring that generally those trials get just unsynced anyway and even solod. People who are still infatuated with those ex trials honestly need to grow up.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Landslide famously an aoe with 10s telegraph. Do people even read what they are posting?

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I wasn't referring to Landslide specifically, pot meet kettle?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Those opportunities to learn are still very much abundant in the game. Be it with interacting with Morbol fruits in Aurum Vale or teaching you to use the crystal areas in order to avoid Eyes on Me, or driving the All-seeing eye into the platform to make him vulnerable. These learning opportunities only grow more abundant later on in story content.

In the case of the trials, any mechanic which results in your permanent incapacitation in the fight only detracts away from your ability to learn and practice/execute said mechanic. If they aren't alive, and if they can't be resurrected then they have no chance aside from sitting on by. Maybe they'll see a glimmer of how the mechanics work, maybe they won't. But regardless of the circumstance unless they wipe, they won't be gaining that opportunity to learn. You can have a player fall off in Titan (hard) and spend the entire time sitting around like a corpse and still clear the encounter without them having actually practiced anything meaningful. So in these events, once again. They actually detract away from a learning opportunity. Whether their death is permanent or not. The fact remains that failing the mechanic will kill them, and not giving them the chance to practice it again outside of wiping is bad game design. Not to mention it unnecessarily ultimately punishes the entire group by forcing them to pick up the slack or to spend needless time incessantly hitting an enrage.

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I think there's very few dungeons that actually makes you learn, I don't think that the Morbol Fruits and the purple floor stuff really translates to much if anything useful later on either.
But I do however think that mechanics not being punishing enough essentially teaches people not to try, in regards to the permanent incapacitation stuff I think it adds some flavor and makes the fight more unique. But I am moreso thinking about the content in a generalized sense.
I do think that enrage should be more of a thing too if people just endlessly fail at everything, I just don't think that you should essentially get the same end result if you go in watching netflix and paying zero attention to the game only with a bit of extra time to complete required.

I do understand what you're saying and I do agree with it to some extent, but the problem is that the practice ends up not being practice but instead a clear regardless.
I don't believe that you should be able to fail hilariously ten times in a fight and still clear, sure remove the perma death I guess but then have an actual enrage so that you can't get thrown off the platform ten times and still clear.
If there is to be an incentive to learn then there needs to be some kind of punishment, if people are taught that they can die over and over again and still succeed then they're not really going to learn I don't think.

I just think this is how people in general work, if they're not going to fail then it's not actually practice it just turns into a '' whatever I'll clear anyway, *queue duty complete sound effect* ''.
If the practice is to actually matter and become actual practice then there needs to be an actual fail state tied to it.
That fail state is not killing the boss, in FFXIV dying isn't rly much of a fail state because of the essentially infinite ress.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I wasn't referring to Landslide specifically, pot meet kettle?

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Ah so you're ok with titan getting that change then? Atleast some sense is found here, which makes me very glad :)

You guys whine too much. The whole "Getting knocked off a platform so you're forced to just watch the rest of the fight" is poor game design, and a terrible impression for people just starting a game. There shouldn't just be random fights where it happens, and others where it doesnt. These were strange, old archaic outliers that needed changing. It was a relic of the past that isn't even present in Stormblood and beyond.

You guys sound like you only exclusively do ARR content lol

This isn't a nerf...Of all the things to complain about, adding the ability to be resurrected after dying from an out of bounds situation is not a change worthy of crying about. This is a good change, especially for new players. Who the hell wants to get hit by a mechanic they were unaware of and then spend the rest of the fight dead? Come on.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Snip.

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If I'm to be frank neither of these highlighted dungeons actually forced me to take anything away from them as a learning experience. At least not in any way that I haven't learned something a lot more relevant later on. Most people in normal story mode content aren't really going to be drawing a wealth of experience and knowledge from completely one-off encounters until they've done them several times. Regarding the morbol fruits, I would beg to differ. It teaches you to look at your debuff bar and act accordingly. Many encounters in the game will put you in a position where you need to look at your debuff bar. Whether or not you spend future encounters picking up fruits or not, you'll still be forced to act according to your debuffs. Be it with marching debuffs, or doom.

If a mechanic kills you for failing it, then it is a punishing mechanic. There's no need to punish someone needlessly by taking them out of the pull indefinitely. If people are dying to mechanics like flies then the chances are you aren't hitting that enrage check. If you die, that check just becomes more stringent, it's as simple as that. Story mode is intended in that you can clear without it being a hindrance to the group if someone is ill-prepared, be it woefully or otherwise, but aside from these mechanics that existed in more difficult areas of the content, e.g. Extreme, then I'm sorry but if someone is spending the majority of the fight dying repeatedly then in most peoples' case you'll be hitting an enrage check.

Again, if a mechanic kills you outright, whether it be via fall damage and perma-incapacitation or something more widespread such as doom then you're still being punished significantly enough as to think "Well, I've done something wrong" - Killing them outright creates that opportunity. I'm sorry but stiffing someone to a bench is not compelling, nor is it engaging. If I have no willingness to learn, then I'm sorry whether I'm on the bench for 20 seconds, or whether I'm on a bench for 5 minutes, doesn't really matter. If anything for a larger portion of players will just find that form of execution more demoralizing than anything. If I want to learn then death alone is going to encourage that.

Whilst I would agree, players shouldn't always be allowed to necessarily die several dozen times in a pull and still clear, I think there are more creative ways of enabling this process than sticking to something as abysmal as perma-incapacitation. Edit: At this point, it's just a matter of principality, though. Some people will find it compelling and fun, some others simply won't. Some people would enjoy the thrill come-back potential of death, some people don't. Personally, I think it just acts as a needless catalyst for making people rage.

Hard, sure.

Extreme, just why?

Perma-death from knock offs were one of the few interesting mechanics that doesn't allowing babysitting of players who couldn't avoid mechanics.

Meanwhile, in SE headquarters :

- "So, did you check how the players are reacting to the permadeath removal ? I am sure that they must be very happy that people can not die on purpose anymore to do nothing, while the rest of the team is doing all the work !"
- "Well... About that..."

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Originally Posted by Padudu

You guys sound like you only exclusively do ARR content lol

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Probably because their incessant focus on getting more and more new people into the game while completely dropping the ball on endgame content for veterans, and also the fact a ton of people abuse ilevel cheeses to get no-effort duties for maximum rewards (CT says hi), makes it so ARR tends to be one of the more frequent things people see in day to day roulettes.

Funny, that.

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

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Yes, because I play video games to get knocked off and then watch other people play the game for me while I just get to sit there and stare. If I wanted to watch people play the game so I can learn, let me direct you to this site called YouTube.com.

A Realm Reborn was made in 2ish years, and while YoshiP himself was an MMO veteran and long time game designer himself, his team was relatively inexperienced. There's a lot of tech debt to 1.0 around ARR and just a lot of generally sloppy and amateur game design philosophies. Remember when they said we couldn't get a Cutter's Cry Hard because the map is seeped in 1.0 spaghetti code? The fact that they can even go back and change the map for Totorak and the fall off code in Titan and its ilk shows the team has come a long way and is pulling off the loose threads.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Probably because their incessant focus on getting more and more new people into the game while completely dropping the ball on endgame content for veterans, and also the fact a ton of people abuse ilevel cheeses to get no-effort duties for maximum rewards (CT says hi), makes it so ARR tends to be one of the more frequent things people see in day to day roulettes.

Funny, that.

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

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I wonder if they're ever going to change up CT, something tells me I doubt it or at least I doubt anytime soon. Anyway besides CT in the DF I hardly get ARR content lately, but I also don't really do leveling unless I'm leveling a baby job.. and even then I just potd or something. But yeah I'm in agreement I wish endgame content was more robust but clearly it hasn't been their focus for a long time.

Also it's probably not just me that tabs out/looks at my phone when permadeath is in play, right? I guarantee you most people likely mentally clock out once they realize they can't be revived lol. It's just not fun to sit there dead. A good way to learn mechanics is by.. doing them too. Which I'm sure the majority would rather do than just simply watch, but to each their own I guess

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Also it's probably not just me that tabs out/looks at my phone when permadeath is in play, right? I guarantee you most people likely mentally clock out once they realize they can't be revived lol. It's just not fun to sit there dead. A good way to learn mechanics is by.. doing them too. Which I'm sure the majority would rather do than just simply watch, but to each their own I guess

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No, it isn't just you. I've been in quite a few trials where people have died to it, more accidentally than intentionally, and then have only gone on to do something else. Besides, there are 2 stark differences between being able to sit there and watch someone actively perform a mechanic versus doing it yourself and having the chance to execute it yourself. Trying by doing is the most important part of learning anything. Something that benches you indefinitely contradicts that. - It's less that it stops learning entirely, and just something that ultimately acts as a caveat for actually getting the chance to practice and execute it which in reality is more important than watching. Nobody plays a videogame to spend that time watching other people play it. They play it so they can play it themselves. If people wanted to watch they'd do so on Twitch, Youtube, or any other suitable platform.

Im always reminded on how whiny and nitpicky some of this community really loves to get and I cant do nothing but just cringe. I can agree on some things such as job adjustments and hairstyles but seriously when did we all start to actually care about the outdated dungeon designs for ARR dungeons and trails when the rest of the dungeons afterwards dont continue or follow those same principles? Yeah Copperbell 2nd boss really was very engaging, where half of the party sat there doing nothing until the end.

"Noooo it wont be SOULFUL unless we burn this old boss in 30 seconds and ignore all of its mechanics" These were needed changes for new player experiences. Every fight in Copperbell was pure cringe and set a bad tone for early game experiences.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Im always reminded on how whiny and nitpicky some of this community really loves to get and I cant do nothing but just cringe. I can agree on some things such as job adjustments and hairstyles but seriously when did we all start to actually care about the outdated dungeon designs for ARR dungeons and trails when the rest of the dungeons afterwards dont continue or follow those same principles? Yeah Copperbell 2nd boss really was very engaging, where half of the party sat there doing nothing until the end.

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People griefed over Coincounter having AoE markers, preaching that it was the beginning of the end. We all got over it. We'll get over this too. Some folks here, I swear, are complaining for the sake of complaining.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You'll have to come back when unreal versions of those trials are in rotation because potency creep and new jobs have made old ex trials a joke even synced. And this is all ignoring that generally those trials get just unsynced anyway and even solod. People who are still infatuated with those ex trials honestly need to grow up.

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Assuming they keep the permadeath aspect in Unreal and don’t also remove it from those. At this rate, I wouldn’t even be shocked if they removed them from the Unreal versions as well.

Pardon if I’m just tired of seeing everything get easier. This goes beyond older content getting changed like the ones listed, and more it just compounding on the myriad of simplifications that FFXIV has been seeing since ShB. From job design to content design.

Like I said, I don’t care about the normal modes, but removing it from content designed to be more punishing is just annoying. The old EXs wouldn’t be as faceroll if this game actually did proper item level syncs. Even with job changes, the item level sync is far too generous. To get true minimum item level experiences, you need to remove pieces of gear. Which is both hilarious and also a bit sad.

All that said, I don’t understand why your response is so hostile. The last comment is wholly unnecessary, and speaks more on who needs to do the growing up more than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

You guys sound like you only exclusively do ARR content lol

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Because for me literally everytime I queue I am stuck within ARR content. I don't know if when I play dps I have been put on a yoshi p no fun list or what but this is apparently where I am destined to live. Level 50 to 70 ONLY SYRCUS TOWER!! Help me please!

Silliness aside that is where I am stuck half the time. I do not care about many of the changes just see changes that should be made, and might not be. Updated markers, better teaching of later mechanics. For the titan thing I hate that its perma death for the hard and normal mode because you can get murdered by your team mate who busts you out of the rock at the wrong time into land slide. For things like extreme it is iffy iffy for me but if there is a Titan unreal....if they take it out of that what is the point of making it an Unreal, just call it titan extreme with more health, faster mechanics, and now your at level 80 or 90 now.

Though many comment in here make me wonder if no one plays anything other than just run savage for weekly clears and want more end game content. Sure that is part of a whole, but literally every roulette I queue for I am locked at level 50 probably because many raiders do not run roulettes at this time due to already being geared out and are taking a break from the game before the next patch.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

You guys sound like you only exclusively do ARR content lol

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Have lost much of the desire to play recently and have pretty much given my pc to friends or extended family, now I watch them play. The experience has been most interesting. Most were going through ARR or are in process of completing post ARR and offer enlightening perspective.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I can agree on some things such as job adjustments and hairstyles but seriously when did we all start to actually care about the outdated dungeon designs for ARR dungeons and trails when the rest of the dungeons afterwards dont continue or follow those same principles? Yeah Copperbell 2nd boss really was very engaging, where half of the party sat there doing nothing until the end.

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*Queues as level 85 Sage, gets Sastasha*

Besides, new players must go through these dungeons. They will not care about how future dungeons are if game fails to keep them engaged enough to continue playing.

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Originally Posted by Faafetai

Because for me literally everytime I queue I am stuck within ARR content. I don't know if when I play dps I have been put on a yoshi p no fun list or what but this is apparently where I am destined to live. Level 50 to 70 ONLY SYRCUS TOWER!! Help me please!

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You're being punished. Enjoy!

No I run DF pretty consistently (though taken a break this week, IRL has done its number on me). I haven't gotten ARR in a bit, mostly SB and SHB if you exclude expert roul of course. So maybe I took your other expansion runs and you got stuck with ARR as a result?

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Have lost much of the desire to play recently and have pretty much given my pc to friends or extended family, now I watch them play. The experience has been most interesting. Most were going through ARR or are in process of completing post ARR and offer enlightening perspective.

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That's fair! I've been talking about ARR with my discord friend since they just started, but they're having fun so I can't knock it lol.

Personally I'm okay with them removing the perma death from falling off, in normal modes it felt out of place, reduced the importance of healers even more as they can't rez and didn't really help to teach the player much because they can't put the knowledge on how to dodge into practice until the party wipes or the duty is cleared, being the latter the most common scenario. In extreme felt out of place simply because its a punishment that not even current savages and ultimates have, once again reduce the importance of healers because no rez and made prog feel worse.

The arena thing in Sohr Kai is a shame but I could understand if it were for trust technical limitations, after all its weird that a party runs out of platforms to dodge due to the sync and depending on the damage buff on cauterize it may make the mechanics play a bigger role

Stone Vigil one is weird tho, the difficulty there happens because a mixture of unprepared tanks and the sync in skills healers have not because of the mechanics

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Originally Posted by GaleMex

Yes, because I play video games to get knocked off and then watch other people play the game for me while I just get to sit there and stare. If I wanted to watch people play the game so I can learn, let me direct you to this site called YouTube.com.

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Easy solution is avoid bad things on the floor.

Though I like how I even say that I don't personally care one way or another about the permadeath removal (except in EX... why take it out of the content that's supposed to be harder?), and people still find ways to throw a fit about it and defend it to the death like your very subscription to the game is on the line if you don't. Touch grass.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

I wonder if they're ever going to change up CT, something tells me I doubt it or at least I doubt anytime soon. Anyway besides CT in the DF I hardly get ARR content lately, but I also don't really do leveling unless I'm leveling a baby job.. and even then I just potd or something. But yeah I'm in agreement I wish endgame content was more robust but clearly it hasn't been their focus for a long time.

Also it's probably not just me that tabs out/looks at my phone when permadeath is in play, right? I guarantee you most people likely mentally clock out once they realize they can't be revived lol. It's just not fun to sit there dead. A good way to learn mechanics is by.. doing them too. Which I'm sure the majority would rather do than just simply watch, but to each their own I guess

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When I'm running content for the first time and die, I don't tab out, no. I watch the fight until I get raised (if I can be raised), so I can try to understand what's going on to be somewhat more prepared for things when I raise or run the content again. Apparently it's too much to believe new players would do the same.

But yeah, I doubt they're ever going to touch CT. They clearly want everything to be so easy you can afk or mentally check out for the entire thing and still get through it (usually on the backs of players who bother to learn and improve). I'm waiting for 8.0 to come around and just remove half of the battle content we have in the lower levels, just so new players won't "run into roadblocks to their experience".

Forgive me if I sound salty, Padudu - I'm not particularly upset with you, personally. I'm just incredibly tired of seeing everything in this game consistently dumbed down for the lowest common denominator, new player experience favored over veteran experience and endgame, consistent focus on niceties and bits and bobs like character plates and new stickers for gpose and the like over gameplay content with actual staying power, and the general lack of care put into a lot of things lately. See: Hrothgar hair cutting their ears off, Reaper enshroud removing all semblance of racial traits from everyone, poor adjustments to the 2B hair to make room for viera ears, Hrothgar and Viera releasing in the state they did, etc etc.

And people consistently defend all of this, on top of it. They ignore problems, or say they aren't that bad, or tell people to quit if they don't like it, etc etc over and over again, desperately trying to drown out any dissenting opinion from theirs. People want everyone to either worship this game and dev team, or leave if they refuse.

I've played and loved this game for 9 years, and I've had to watch it consistently go down in quality in many areas despite getting more and more successful, and it's a frustrating and saddening experience.

Just personal opinion, perma death is cheezey. You might as well just put a more realistic stop watch or enrage on the fight. If boss can't die in 10 mins enrage or timed out. I am not even sure if Perma death should be in very endgame content. And if it is in content it should be in a last phase 20% or less HP.



The other changes are AI/trust issues. Not much they can do about it. If that is the best the ai can do. Stone Vigil last boss nerf is a little funny. In 2.0 when plds had cure you could solo it from at least 50%.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Just go allllllll in and have cutscene play showing you completing the dungeon then boom you auto win. Now everybody happy!

Friend said this.. I found it most amusing and depressing at same time.

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well at this point by 7.0 that what we will get. thet going to make this game one big cutscene from 1-100 and then some extreams and raids. where the people in between need to go?

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

A good story cannot make up for bad gameplay.

Who asked for this? This looks to be an easy way to make sure many people quit out of boredom during the free trial period.

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SE wabt to make ALL content solo. but they cant make good bots. so they make the content so thet legal bots can do it. i talk about the Trust system

Being able to revive people that fall off is great for new players. It's huge feelbad moment if you get knocked off early and have to just sit on sidelines watching others complete the thing for you.

I disagree with the dungeon changes though, none of the mechanics were overbearing or difficult to deal with, so all these changes just seem really odd to me.
The only reason I could see them changing these is to make Trusts work better in them because they just couldn't make the AI deal with these things which resulted in all the responsibility being shifted on the player.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

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If you're doing content for the first time, yeah understandable as to why you would watch. If I'm able to be raised, yeah also not a reason to tab out unless it's going to take a while. But even when you're not doing new content and permadeath is still a thing, it's just.. boring. I've fallen off arenas before the fight has even started before (don't ask, just know that sometimes my brain isn't there lol). I agree with the poster above me actually, I think enrage would be a more interesting mechanic than permadeath. I don't really think it adds anything to the difficulty tbh, maybe artificially I suppose, but most people try to avoid falling and dying anyways.

I know for me though I've sadly never been a visual learner so staying dead and trying to watch isn't going to happen. I basically need to repeat, repeat, repeat until it's driven into my head. I think at least in lower content, IMO perma death has always been more of a turn-off and a "whelp, guess that's that." which is a feeling I don't think should happen. Given that some people in SB/ShB/even EW refuses to even read their tooltips on their skills, not a far stretch to believe that people won't watch mechanics.. I mean heck in the 3rd Nier raid, 2B TELLS you the mechanics and people still die to it lol.

No apologies needed, I'll send virtual hugs your way. :) I just wish SE would consider more of a middle ground. It can be true that "hardcore" players might be a niche and that casual players are a majority, but there's no reason to disregard one playerbase in favor of the other. It just seems like they're doing TOO much in one direction without regarding the other, call me the optimist but I hope they'll wake up and see that it's not the way.

No one should be defending Hrothgar hair lol. That's just insanely silly. As for the job changes.. I think that's where the divide starts to come in. Either people think it's fine because they're having fun and for them it's challenging enough, or people don't like it because it's not nuanced, hard enough, ect. But with a casual majority and SE seeming more and more that they only cater towards casual, it looks bleak.

I completely understand why it's just seemingly everything is being dumbed down. I think though as far as permadeath goes, meh.. I could do without. The other changes though - as far as shortening lengths and ect - I'll guess we'll have to see.

I'll keep on my hopium and hope that somehow they'll be able to see that making the game too easy is just a good way to lose players, too.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

They ignore problems, or say they aren't that bad, or tell people to quit if they don't like it, etc etc over and over again, desperately trying to drown out any dissenting opinion from theirs.

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I disagree. Not all players have problems with things others have problems with. For example, I personally like what they've done with jobs and will express my thoughts that the changes aren't a bad thing. I respect that others have different opinions; especially folks like us who've been here for a long time as we've seen what the game's been and the changes made over time. As far as ignoring problems, that may or may not be the case. I personally love the Ward system we have for housing and will defend it, but I also have a *significant* issue with them keeping them limited while also not upgrading the apartment system to accommodate people wanting a house-sized space to decorate. However; I realize the team have limited amounts of time to do things and that they address things if/when they can, such as the host of QoL changes this coming patch. Understanding this makes it a whole lot easier to have empathy for the dev team, accept the things I can't change, and keep my mouth shut.

I've told many people that if they don't enjoy this game then it would be in their best interest to find a different one. Hobbies are something that's done purely for the enjoyment of doing it. If the enjoyment's not there, then find a different activity you derive joy from doing. It's the same thing with games, not all games are for all people and often times finding a different one to play when bored or exhausted with the current one is a good option. I can't stand FPS, so I don't play them. I do enjoy single player and MMORPGs so I play them. Six years ago I went on a huge Skyrim bender and played it day in and day out for the better part of six months. It's a great game and I loved the mods I used, but eventually I wasn't enjoying it so I came back to XIV.

I'd argue that a good portion of people who tell others to find a different game if they don't like this one enough aren't being malicious, but are actually suggesting something that's healthy for the other player. Never once have I said that to someone with anything but helpful intent based on my own experience with MMOs over the decades.

The Sohr Khai thing was a fun gimmick more than anything, it's just weird to chose to take it away.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Besides, new players must go through these dungeons. They will not care about how future dungeons are if game fails to keep them engaged enough to continue playing.

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yeah because dungeon content was the main hook for FFXIV. I'll be honest I would agree with this statement if it werent for the fact that dungeons in Heavensward and beyond have already become so linear and more set on set/story dressing than actual explorable instances. Why lie to newplayers thinking that dungeon content gets more expansive and unique when you go through them in ARR with those initial design choices when they dont commit to it at all? I was heavily disappointed in that aspect when I got to the later expansions. NGL I still like them but still I rather they keep the content design consistent rather than have this weird disjointment between ARR and its later expansions.

I much approve of these changes.

Disappointing patch
Square isn't even trying anymore. No competition so no need to try :~)

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Originally Posted by Syln

The Sohr Khai thing was a fun gimmick more than anything, it's just weird to chose to take it away.

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It was removed most likely due to Trust AI and the need to make decisions where to jump etc. Probably pretty hard to program otherwise.