Again, interpret me however you want. I just find fans of MCH prior to Shb rare and interesting, especially with their takes on Summoner. I'll leave the general public to decide which direction they'd rather things go in.
My humble take on new SMN
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12-20-2021, 08:41 PMaveyond-dreams
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12-20-2021, 08:52 PMzcrash970Dont forget about dark knightQuote:
Originally Posted by Rolder50
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12-20-2021, 10:48 PMServantNaoyaIt's okay, we have the true Dark Knight now, and it's called Reaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by zcrash970
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12-21-2021, 02:19 AMzcrash970Fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ServantNaoya
Also people don't acknowledge aveyond-dreams. It's either a troll or a moron. Neither deserves attention -
12-21-2021, 05:05 AMMyon88
Ok here's my summoner feedback.
- Job is still poor at managing combat with downtime.
This problem didn't exist in the past with aetherflow and dreadwyrm trance, it's a problem that was created when the job shifted to 'combined trances' like firebird trance starting from Shadowbringers. If these abilities come off cooldown without a target present, you are unable to use them, delaying your rotation and your access to more damage. The best designed jobs have flexibility and control over their primary resources, while summoner can only pray that nothing interferes with their scripted burst windows.
There are ways to solve this without going back to older designs. For example, summoning bahamut with unused egi crystals could augment the demi summon, perhaps an ifrit crystal would replace astral flare with flare breath, or titan would convert akh morn into akh rhai. This way, if you fall behind due to pauses in combat and are unable to use your egis quickly enough, you can catch up and recoup some of the damage lost.
It could also open up the possibility of deliberately leaving egis unused if a stronger demi summon is preferable down the line, while also changing up the rather spammy and boring egi phase and encouraging more hardcasting. There are many ways to creatively iterate on the current design. This is the kind of depth summoner is sorely lacking right now.
- Arcanist half of the toolkit is unfocused
Ruin 4 is only used once a minute, it's just there and kind of lame. We don't need two versions of energy drain/siphon. For something also only used once a minute, they don't offer enough of a difference in gameplay to justify being two buttons. Imagine if energy siphon was a self heal instead of an attack, while still generating aetherflow. It would offer a meaningfully different option while also solving the problem above. Physick continuing to exist feels like a prank. More can be done to integrate these skills naturally with the primal related skills.
- Distracting spell effects
You can resize primals, but their initial attack animation is unaffected. It's really flashy, happens every 15-20 seconds, and it's going to be a liability in difficult content when it blinds your party. It's not ideal for people to have to turn spell effects off or resize pets just because a summoner is around.
- Unreliable carbuncle utility
I'm not a fan of your personal shield becoming unusable while your egi is doing their summon animation, bahamut/phoenix I can understand since they're a full pet replacement. Split seconds matter in difficult content, so these short lockouts are a nuisance. I guess you could say it's part of the job fantasy, but it feels like you're still dealing with the downsides of being a pet-based job, with none of the upsides.
- Job is still poor at managing combat with downtime.
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12-21-2021, 05:33 AMAceofRains
One thing I think could a small step in the right direction is giving back 3 stacks of Aetherflow.
Being able to use even just one more stack make those one button GCD spam phases just a little more rounded out.
I like others also feel Ruin 4 is underwhelming but I also do see where it’s the last GCD that just fits into the rotation timing window. I’m not entirely sure what should be done here for it, other than maybe making it more accessible alongside spamming your Bahamut attacks. I really don’t know.
Last- for sure it needs more Summons. Idk how that will be facilitated though. Can you only have 3 and just customize? Glamour but have awkward elemental properties? Have all 6 elementals? Go wild and have versions for things like Ravana and Tsukiyomi?
I very much like the direction the went and it’s pretty much what I had in mind when I drew up my own ideas for it. If we did get Shiva, Levi and Ramuh, I think a great build up for it would be to use them in an order that attunes you to Astral, Umbral, or Neutral. Or even attune to Light or Dark as a build up to Summon Zodiark or Hydaelyn (They are primals so theoretically…)
For instance, Summon Ifrit, Ramuh, and Garuda attunes you to Astral. Being attuned could empower or alter things like Fester and Painflare.
Alternatively if you wanted to attune to light, instead of Summoning Ramuh there you Summon Shiva.
EDIT: I also wanted to mention Carbuncle’s shield. Contrary to some of the gripes about it being unavailable while Summoning, that’s kinda the point. Iirc the shield lasts 30 seconds. The only time you can’t get it is immediately after a basic summon, or during a Demi-summon. That being said, I apply it long before I know an incoming attack will hit me. The best time to weave it is right before you whip out your next Summon. I actually like playing around this because it gives it just a bit more of a skill window whereas a lot of complaints are saying how lacking the rotation is in the first place. -
12-21-2021, 11:04 AMSargeTheSeagull
The devs need to do SOMETHING before 6.1 to make summoner less brain dead. It’s fun and I prefer it to the cluster we had in ShB. Letting us summon Bahamut and Phoenix whenever (ie on separate buttons), giving them a different effect (Phoenix gives a party damage buff, Bahamut gives a personal buff) would be a good start.
In fact, allow us to summon any of our five summons whenever. Locking ifrit, titan and Garuda behind bahamut/phoenix doesn’t make much sense. I agree with OP; Ifrit, titan and garuda’s astral flow should 100% be gotten around level 60. Not getting that until 86 is boring. Another random idea: the elemental summons could give unique effects. Titan gives you a defense buff or barrier, Ifrit gives the party a 3% damage buff for a couple GCD’s, Garuda gives you a movement speed buff.
Or maybe each summon’s astral flow gets a different button and you can save them up for a burst window. You can go through ITG, not use their astral flows at all, wait until a two minute buff window comes, weave all the astral flows between ruins. Alternatively, summon ifrit, not use crimson cyclone/strike, summon Phoenix and still have access to cyclone/strike.
I know none of these ideas are perfect or even maybe good, but summoner is so horribly lacking any complexity right now it’s painful. It’s fun to play and I think the devs are going in the right direction but I hope they give it some major changes. Ideally before savage comes out/ in 6.05. -
12-21-2021, 12:58 PMTofuPenguin
Aside from the simplicity of the job, I thought it a bit pointless to have phoenix tied to the loop since it had the heal. What's the point of having a heal if you can't use it on demand?
I was generally ok with ShB SMN. My only gripe about it back then was the janky pets with skill queue issues and ghosting. I think the new summons look cool but the class feels barebones right now. Would like to see some kind of improvement in the future. I'm not creative enough to come up with any good ideas for the job. -
12-22-2021, 03:49 AMRiguel
I don't mind the changes to summoner but I do feel there is room for improvement of course. I've started a new character to level up summoner to get a beginner's feel and then playing with the changes I've gotten with my lvl 81 on my main. Here's a few things I noticed and could help improve it. Running MSQ roulette, I've noticed I can do my rotation just fine except for the Ruby spells. Before I can get one of those cast off, enemies are usually dead. I've also noticed I can get either two Ruin or Tri-disaster spells cast before I could cast one of the ruby spells, which at that point makes those spells kind of useless coming from a damage perspective.
I think a reduction in the cast time for the ruby spells would help balance their usefulness vs casting two ruin/tri-disaster. I think it would also help giving us an attack for carbuncle we can cast during the Aethercharge phase that way we aren't just spamming ruin the entire time until the bar drains. I think my last minor complaint is in the lower levels of being arcanist is them reusing icons for the attacks. I got really confused at first seeing two tri-disaster icons or two ruins show up on the bar when the ruby arcanum was activated. Even a recolour of those icons would be an improvement to showcase they are the arcanum spells. -
12-22-2021, 06:38 AMJirahMCH SB here and I despise the MCH 5.0 rework to this day, and it didn’t even accomplish a new order of mains their population declined literally after the next big job came out or never really had as strong following to begin with. And judging by SMN change it’s not looking good in 7.0 when they ignore the “perfect job” and give it like Ruin V or something benign and useless as mechanics go. I’m not as critical of SMN due to me not really maining it but the patterns is recognizable. Reworks are a curse, the true blasphemyQuote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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12-22-2021, 06:45 AMJirahLet’s be honest, they will and as few and dim as “mashonist” mains are they’ll go from “it’s a good base to improve” and do a 180 toward acting likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
a RDM “it’s perfect as is, doesn’t need any adjustments” and I can very Clearly see the parallels between them and new “Susmoner” mains from “it’s a start!” To later in 7.0 “it was perfect the way it is, no adjustments needed”
But the difference is SMN has a equally strong Advocate base, which will save it or enhance it . Something MCH didn’t have in SHB which later caused it to stagnate and ,in all honesty, get worse with Queen being even more inept -
12-22-2021, 04:24 PMServantNaoyaAgreed there. I loved MCH back in HW, and then SB, but then they gutted it completely, much like they did SCH. I guess SMN was next in line after SCH. SCH was my favorite in HW and SB, then after they gutted it I switched to maining SMN, and now they gutted that too. It's been kind of demoralizing, honestly, which is why I really don't want SMN to be left as it is. It needs more, really really badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah
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12-23-2021, 05:40 AMlulunami
The general idea and theme over the new SMN is okay. Summoning the primals is cool with neat aesthetics. Considering how bad SMN was to play at the start of 4.0 and 5.0 (Stormblood and Shadowbringers), this version of SMN is sort of acceptable.
However, I think giving SMN back a spell like Bio (DoT) would make the job slightly better to play before the Lv.86 primal attack upgrades. The game play is too monotonous just spamming Pet Ruin. Imagine playing Bard without DoTs or Bloodletter and only spamming Heavy Shot.
There is a lot of pressure to rush through all the red, yellow, and green summons and their attacks, which feels bad during downtime if Bahamut/Phoenix timer comes back up. It feels like you are constantly going through a 60s loop of rushing and just going into Bahamut/Phoenix over the rest of your summons since the cool-down timer forces you to do so. Ruin IV feels like a spell you are forced to use every 60s, and I just wonder where it fits with all the primal attacks during downtime. Just use it before you lose it?
The personal shield and aoe damage buff lockout still feel awkward to use considering how you have to rush through red, yellow, and green summons.
The developer team needs to adjust summoner game play a bit. There is something about new SMN that is just lacking. -
12-23-2021, 08:54 AMTulzschaI just try and squeeze them into the raid buff. For the opener just dump it after Bahamut, after that use the 2nd Energy Drain during Phoenix (and 1 min buffs) with about 50s left on your buff's cd then hold onto Ruin 4 + the Festers until your next raid buff, use Ruin 4 before Bahamut then get another to use after. Just have to make sure you use up all the stuff before hitting Energy Drain again and use Ruin 4s outside of demis.Quote:
Ruin IV feels like a spell you are forced to use every 60s, and I just wonder where it fits with all the primal attacks during downtime. Just use it before you lose it?
The shield is weird being unusable half the time but it also lasts a while so hey that's one thing new SMN has to plan for I guess. -
12-23-2021, 11:21 AMaveyond-dreamsAgain if you want Bio back? Wait for Necromancer. We do not need to see dots return to Summoner. Poison magic is not the point of the job. We deserve something better. Give us something cooler like Shiva's ice bow attack that was mistakenly given to Blue Mage to Summoner, or something along those lines. Also, getting rid of Bard's ridiculous dot-procs has now made the class amazing to play, because I no longer have to wait on rng and now aoeing feels great.Quote:
Originally Posted by lulunami
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12-23-2021, 11:44 AMaveyond-dreams
(accidental double post)
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12-23-2021, 05:00 PMServantNaoyaPersonally, I tend to use Ruin 4 in between the Ifrit spells just to keep things moving a bit, and facilitate a Quick Cast for the second one. But yeah, Ruin 4 is kind of a "throw it anywhere so long as it's not in Demi phase" kinda button. It exists. Like Fester, it feels very tacked on and doesn't really synergize with the rest of the new toolkit in any meaningful way. I still think personally that the 86 primal flow attacks should come WAY earlier, maybe weaker versions. That would alleviate the class feeling so braindead until then, and then they could actually build upon that foundation. Level 90 SMN feels more like base to build on than a full on class.Quote:
Originally Posted by lulunami
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12-24-2021, 04:06 AMKatsuraJun
lol
people weren't kidding about new SMN. literally all my ST offensive buttons fit on a single hotbar. It's legitimately easier than a healer DPS "rotation" because at least that has a DoT to watch and cast times to deal with.
I can accept that SMN needed an identity rework to be a summoner and not DoT mage, but the whole design of it is completely half-baked. -
12-24-2021, 09:09 AMCorbeau
Ruin IV gives you more flexibility in movement, primarily but not exclusively in ruby. Same with Swiftcast; it's a damage boost in ruby (or, in some compositions' openers, emerald due to raid buff snapshotting) but if you need an absurd amount of sustained movement you can pop it on emerald for two full primal phases of complete freedom.
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12-25-2021, 12:05 PMgodvivecMy biggest issue with it. There is no gameplay to improve. You just spam ruin in between spamming whatever summon is up. There NEEDS to be something to manage, or fill in the gaps. Something to make the class a little more entertaining to use. It's so barebones it's not even funny...Let's not even mention that any of the okay features are locked behind almost maxed level. Hope you don't plan to have fun with the class in the first 85 levels... (seriously wth square?)Quote:
Originally Posted by KatsuraJun
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12-25-2021, 12:22 PMIchiExorz
I'm fine with dots being gone (having a dot mage next expac would be nice though, allthough i'd personally prefer Time mage or osmething) and i'm happy with the direction in which they took the class with the big one off summons doing their big attack and leaving.
I do think the class plays fluid and honestly feels pretty enjoyable to play.
That being said I think the class lacks any depth and it feels very empty. I also feel like they "reworked" the class while trying to keep things that add nothing to the summoning identity. Having the carbuncle have a defensive shield feels weird as it otherwise does nothing, aetherflow seems tacked on without any thought, could be replaced or worked into the summoning aspect.
I'd have personally much rather see SMN with a mechanic like MNK's new Blitz mechanic where you have to build up to a summon to do a big nuke.
Like you work towards the specific summon you want by using certain skills in a certain order.
But for that SMN would have needed an even bigger rework I think. -
12-25-2021, 12:45 PMdinnertimeThat's how SMN used to work. Back in Heavensward and Stormblood, Aetherflow was a main resource to spend so you can access Dreadwyrm and Bahamut. For some reason they took that away and ever since, Aetherflow is just a button that gives you extra damage with no other mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by IchiExorz
I'd be surprised if they go back to that. -
12-25-2021, 01:17 PMAdelx
New summoner is very simple and boring .. we misses dots mage.
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12-25-2021, 05:19 PMShayuki
The new Summoner definitely feels incomplete. The first indication of this is that when you sync to lvl 50 the job's literally unplayable, and far behind most of the decent jobs in damage. Even if lvl 50 isn't being actively balanced for, it should still not feel like a lvl 24 run in Tam-Tara Deepcroft. The progression also makes no sense. To lvl 60 you gain a minor improvement and to lvl 70 you also gain another minor improvement - Essentially, you spend all those levels just for Deathflare and Akh Morn. Lvl 80 is the real kicker though, because you actually get nerfed. Lvl 79 Summoner is stronger than lvl 80 Summoner, because having Bahamut every 60 seconds is better than having to cast Phoenix who doesn't get Deathflare and gets some weak heal instead. That alone reeks of a poorly designed job.
As others have mentioned, it only receives the depth of a lvl 60 job at lvl 86. Before that point it honestly is equivalent to a lvl 50 job. At lvl 50 it's equivalent to a lvl 30 job if lucky.
Right now, it's by far the most braindead job in the game. The only piece of optimization is saving Aetherflow for use during party buffs, but of course even doing that requires just about no skill since you have numerous oGCD slots and there are zero complications in saving the Festers, no resource management or anything. From lvl 86 it's passable, before that it's dreadful and at 50 it's downright insulting. Also, it's a joke that its Capstone lvl 90 ability is just some lame trait that increases summon damage by 100 potency. That would absolutely never fly if the job had not specifically have been reworked for this expansion.
Another thing that I dislike is that Summon Phoenix is set in stone. You really cannot use the heal strategically. You can throw the Rekindle on the tank and try to be with your party when you press it, but you cannot strategically use the heal for stacked AoE or anything. Especially considering that Phoenix now actually NERFS you from the way you were at lvl 70-79, they really should make it a seperate ability, perhaps with charges, that you instead would use for some healing utility. And being able to use Deathflare every 60s would also give Summoner a much-needed damage buff.
I also don't really like how summons block you out from using some abilities, like your defensive cooldown. I guess that's one way to add "depth" but I think that that's a pain and would much prefer a different method. You can't exactly just not summon Bahamut when it's up, and then if you'd need the defensive while it's summoned you're just screwed. It also has a weird delay because for whatever reason it's cast by your pet so you need to cast it far in advance which also is a pain to deal with.
I mainly assume that if people find new Summoner fun to play it's because it's new. Give it a year and I imagine it will not be nearly as popular. -
12-25-2021, 05:59 PMMiziliti
The new SMN is a GCD mage mostly. It plays and feels like a physical range job with most of its attacks being instant. We're lvl 90 now and I still can't believe we're stuck with Ifrit/Garuda/Titan trio. It felt boring fast, but the low damage is the most depressing part.
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12-25-2021, 07:09 PMShayuki
The thing that annoys me most of all is that you get nerfed at lvl 80. If Phoenix had been locked behind a job quest I would never have finished it. Other jobs get all sorts of cool stuff at 80, for Summoner it's "congrats, you're now a worse job than you were at 79!". It's no wonder Summoner's completely overpowered in lvl 70 content like the Ultimates because you actually get to summon Bahamut every 60s and don't have to deal with the Phoenix nerfs. But it really would be cool if at lvl 80 you became better instead of worse.
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12-26-2021, 02:12 AMIchiExorzYeah I mained SMN back in HW. I quite loved the class (despite it not feleing like a "summoner" at all but ok. Wasn't a fan of the changes in SB though.)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
But over the expansions they dumbed down how aetherflow affects our rotation to the point it just feels tacked on now. It's just 3 ogcd's on a 60 sec cooldown.
I don't necessarily want them to go back to dots but at least have it have some effect on our "new" summoning mechanic. -
12-26-2021, 02:29 AMOtakuSempaiExactly, so sick of people like this. Overly dismissive, rude apologists who think they can handwave away their fellow player's opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNovel
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12-26-2021, 02:44 AMOtakuSempaiI second this but would avoid stooping to their level with the name calling. They're pretty diehard about defending the current design at all costs and are super upset about anyone disagreeing and adding absolutely 0 to the conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by zcrash970
Please ignore and move on, cause I think this convo is worth having. -
12-26-2021, 01:24 PMmathias-merodach
This is my first post on the forums. I've only been playing for a couple of years in this game, but since that time I've put in in thousands of hours. Normally I hate casters, but Summoner and dots brought me back to the first caster in a game I ever enjoyed: Madness sorcerer in SW:TOR. With that said, I am another in the line that does not enjoy the changes to summoner with Endwalker. Mind, I agree that it is very different than summoner in other games in how it functioned even in SHB. But that was another thing that drew me into the job so much. Summoner has been so different throughout the length of the Final Fantasy series that it lends itself to be whatever the world needs it to be but there are things that, to my knowledge, set FF14's apart from all the others.
Never before has summoning come from a conquering empire. In most games, it's either someone every character can do, or limited to a singular character from some small tribe or sheltered village. Here, it comes from the power of a militarily strong, technologically advanced empire. In most games, the act of summoning itself causes an awesome attack; the attack itself may play actual world affecting destruction such as Bahamut in 9. In 14, however, the act of summoning itself truly affects and potentially damages the world itself because of how magic works in this universe. But it's also a broken art that we are relearning. The egis are even explained; why we can't gain more (I don't agree with it but it is a corner they wrote themselves in that they haven't written out yet.) As for the dots being there, it could still be even more justified if we were able to learn more about the Allagan Summoners of old, such as more details as to what they did that caused such fear which led to them being slaughtered to a man. Maybe it was through the use of spells such as Bio and Miasma and Outburst to weaken en masse before they crushed their foes in one fell swoop through summoning?
As for the DoT mage aspect, I would say that it further added to 14's unique version of summoner. While there is often a comparison to WoW's affliction warlock to speak of summoner's dots with disdain, my opinion from having played the new version is this: it's been made into a Dungeons and Dragons Warlock. One that took its patron as a Fiend (the egi's), pact of the chain through having Carbuncle, who then proceeds to do nothing but use Eldritch Blast throughout every single combat encounter. Altered yes, but even Eldritch Blast has different versions based on the invocations one choses and, in the end, it is still the same old Eldritch Blast. And a warlock. And a warlock with far less function. -
12-26-2021, 01:25 PMmathias-merodach
Maybe I would feel different if, like some, I had played summoner from older expansions. Maybe I would never have tried it. Those are things I can't speak to. What I can say is that it was Dragoon, because of Kain, and Dark Knight, because of Cecil, that I came to this game. But it was the summoner how it was, how it played, the abilities, and the lore of this specific version which entranced me enough to experiment in an area of classes that I otherwise avoid with great effort in all other games because the inability to otherwise find enjoyment. As it exists now, I could simply turn on FF13, put Lighting in her mage mode, and see the same thing: a character model spamming Ruin. High movement, flashy ruin, just like a DnD Warlock who, on occasion, sends their imp forward to do a touch of damage.
Both sides are passionate and care for the class. There are those that enjoy these changes. That, I feel, should be acknowledged and respected. Those are their feelings, regardless of where or how they developed them. But I, like others, do not. And those feelings should be acknowledged and respected just as much. For me, these changes have been an incredibly negative experience. To see the class that hooked me changed into something that does not in any way fulfill the fantasy that its former self did is a great damper on my experience leading me to the same mindset I, personally, left in when playing Red Mage: bored and a lack of fulfillment in any action I take. This is just me and my thoughts on it. And sorry for the long-winded reply. Took a lot more than I thought to make, what I hope, was a clear enough point. -
12-27-2021, 05:51 PMServantNaoya
The more I play with new SMN, the more I see that Astral Flow is really the thing that ties this new class together. Like, that's the foundation of the class, like the mudras for Ninja or the melee combo for Red Mage. This is what makes it so insulting that you get it so late. Imagine a Red Mage that has nothing but its basic Jolt Thunder/Aero spells, you slowly get Fire and Stone through 60 to 80, and then at 86 you finally get the melee combo. That's what SMN feels like. The very thing that makes the class work is backended at the end of the leveling process, and then it just stops there, never building on top of it. If the Astral Flow abilities came earlier, at 50 or 60, then the class would have room to breathe and grow into something. Since we're summoning Primals now, just get rid of the Egis entirely, and focus on giving us more of what makes the class fun; seeing how new summons give us different abilities and Astral Flows. Heck, you could get a whole second set of gems the second time you do your Demi summon, and side summons beside. We have SO many Primals to pick from now, it's just such a missed opportunity to force SMN into this direction without taking advantage of it.
At this point, I would untie the main summons from your pet system. Give them cast times, and then the summon is just the spell itself, the summon instantly comes out and does the attack. No more awkward moment where you summon Titan just as the enemy dies, and then Titan just stands there like an idiot not knowing what to do. That also open up the possibility for side-summons to be oGCDs, so we can finally replace Physick with something that isn't a literal waste of space, or, get this, a summon that applies DoTs! No poisons needed!
I dunno. There's just so much that could've been done with this, and yet it just does the bare minimum to be considered playable. -
12-28-2021, 06:42 AMdinnertime
Now that I have it at 90, I appreciate that there's no downtime anymore which makes Ruin 3 utterly useless, but there's an even more lack of flexibility than before because you have to immediately summon everything once you spend your attunement and favors. I liked the old playstyle where you can basically manipulate your CDs so you're able to hold onto Dreadwyrm/Bahamut and prevent DPS loss, but I don't know how they'd bring that back in with this rework.
Also Demi Bahamut/Phoenix are still the most boring parts of the rework because you barely have ogcds to use in-between Ruins.
Edit: At this point Carbuncle should just be an animation effect when you use Radiant Aegis and Searing Light, but the abilities themselves are casted by yourself. Right now how it's designed is inconvenient. -
12-28-2021, 06:49 AMRaikaiThe thing about Ruin 3 is one other of the few peeves I've had with the redesign.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
Of all "merged" abilities, I feel that Gemshine shouldn't exist as a standalone button and Ruin 3 should be what turns into the Primal basic action, just like it happens with the Demi. Yes, it would be 1 less button on a job with so few to begin with, but if Ruin is not usable ever, then that's actual bloat.
Or even better - to avoid losing the button completely - the current Gemshine functionality would be baked into Ruin 3 and Gemshine could become an extra oGCD during Primal/Demi phases. It would kill 2 birds with one gemstone. -
12-28-2021, 06:55 AMdinnertime
Same with Outburst/Tri-Disaster.
Ruin/Gemshine and Tri-Disaster/Precious Brilliance literally have the same purpose. I don't see a reason to press Ruin 3 or Outburst when you have attunements at all. They should just get merged. -
12-28-2021, 07:01 AMRaikaiYeah, forgot to mention Tri Disaster too. Precious Brilliance could become AOE oGCDs for the primal and demi phases.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
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12-28-2021, 09:22 AMRoda
I just want the satisfaction I had with good ruin IV and egi assault management, and the meaningful interactions I had fighting alongside my pets...
Don't take carbuncle away, enhance it. Give it purpose. (Let it EARN its mascot status!)
Let it stay out permanently (or at least not in demi phase), and have it interact with / augment parts of our gem phase, and then give us a payoff for good usage in the demi phase. (honestly, replace energydrain/aetherflow as a mechanic with this, since aetherflow is just boring damage buttons now)
Ideally, or rather, if I could rework the rework, I would want is for there to be more... respect (???) shown to the phases in between the demi summons. Right now they just feel like busywork
Personally it feels to me like the gem phases shouldn't be ammo skills to get off your hotbar as fast as possible, but more like stances that feel more.. "complete" than A Single Target, A AoE, and A Gimmick, something that feels like tools to solve problems, instead of them BEING the problems themselves. Where when you cast enough aligned spells, THEN the primal will come out to join you, and it stays out for a while to like... actually fight, and maybe get empowered by the spells you're casting alongside them. And once that summon has finished its thing, then you would be able to move to a new summon, and so on until you've unlocked the demi. (Basically I want more time not being in the demi phase, so both phases feel more substantial.)
Basically, casting elemental spells, augmented by carbuncle -> summoning bigfriend to fight alongside, casting our own spells, and empowering the bigfriend with carbuncle's built resource to build a new resource -> (repeat x amount) -> spend accumulated resource to summon empowered demi, which is comparatively a more relaxing phase, but also a more powerful phase to reward proper setup.
Let us choose which demi to summon, and go all in on differences. Give bahamut powerful hardcasts with a less powerful instant, give phoenix back his combo, and keep him mobile, and if we wanna get crazy, let us only be able to res in his phase, but like, make it cool (like rdm's chain res, have it eat into phoenix's summon duration or something)
But.. that's all very wishful thinking, I get that. I'd settle for more meaningful carbuncle interaction, and a rotation that makes me feel like I'm in control, instead of like I'm going down a checklist. -
12-31-2021, 01:44 PMPalladiamorsHuh, funny, seems to me like you've got that backward. I see a vocal minority, most of whom never played summoner before and espouse as such, praising it, while most old summoners hate it and have stopped playing it. With any luck they'll ignore people like you and fix this train wreck.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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12-31-2021, 02:06 PMDuskaneReworks are generally here to stay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palladiamors
I'm not really here to pick a side because honestly alot of people for both old and new SMN just act like pricks to each other
the real Vocal minority here is the ones who want improvement and can actually engage in a discussion to help the job instead of just insulting others because they like or hate the the direction job has taken. -
12-31-2021, 02:37 PMDuskane
Right now this job plays like so early alpha version of bard minus the dot you push your burst strike/ruin click your song/primal push what lights up and go to town thats it
they really need to push those big primals to the mid 60 range same with the lvl 86 abilities
Pheonix needs to feel different to bahamut and not worse like now
Aetherflow has over stayed it welcome and honestly should just be removed and reworked for both SCH and SMN
it use to be the branch between smn and sch but now they are completely differently
i really hate job guage that are there to be there when most the time it could just be a status like in HW im gonna know when bahamut and primals are up because they highlight like im having an engine failure so why bother
job needs something else to do and carbuncle needs to do something besides gatekeeping.