Will Bot's ever be punished?

Ha! It's BTN now, SE ruined that joke.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I think with the mid-level ranges, limited NPC availability and the market ward cost for the equipment, it makes that middle range lacking in terms of gear progression.

Gil and equipment are not as plentiful as it once was in those lower~mid levels. I think for us that have been hanging out at 50 for a while, don't see the point in outfitting those levels knowing where to go for the XP. But for the first time player, knowing you are performing subpar due to lacking equipment can be unsexy.

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??

You're lacking for mid level gear? Buy at your Class's Guildhouse. Only thing you really lack from that experience is accessories.

Your local guildhouse should cover your equipment until about 38 or 39, and by then it's just pushing through your leves until you hit 40.

Speaking from experience here. Lancer gear was particularly easy to get, even though I did buy a few market wards pieces, just to 'keep current' on ever piece. Could have just as easily visited guilds with similar equipment styles and leached off of gear they had at their NPCs at differing levels.

I understand the want to 'feel current' and that's ok. It encourages business for crafters or new crafters. But those who do not want to deal with Auction House RMT prices can just as likely go with NPC gear or hit their linkshell for a crafter there.

That sort of thing is likely not going to change come 2.0

Oooh! Thanks for the tip! Didn't realize the guilds stocked such gear. Neat neat neat!

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Originally Posted by Jin_

Ha! It's BTN now, SE ruined that joke.

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Lol everyone I know calls it BOT still, BTN doesn't sound right, I just had to.

Flayer

http://www.aussiewhipmaker.com/images/whip_1.jpg

will be instituted specifically to punish bots

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

Oooh! Thanks for the tip! Didn't realize the guilds stocked such gear. Neat neat neat!

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Yeah. It was added in a while ago, they'll sell arms and equipment at each of the battle class guilds. I know they sell tools at the crafting guilds as well, not so sure on clothing though, haven't gone and checked too deep there.

But yeah, I geared pretty deep into my 30's using primarily the stuff I could buy from the NPCs, and diddn't buy much from the markets until I realized some of the gear you could get there was dirt cheap in comparison right now.

Not sure if it will stay that way when the RMT start controlling all the markets/auctions - but if you stick to Leves you should be able to maintain the gil needed to buy the items you need straight up until 40.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Flayer

http://www.aussiewhipmaker.com/images/whip_1.jpg

will be instituted specifically to punish bots

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Pshh, please. That'll be a Miq'ote Female only Equipment in 2.0 to keep their males in bed where they belong. line.

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Originally Posted by Mortikhan

I went on to explain that I do not want the market wards to dictate by price and supply what I can or can not do or how quickly I can do it.

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But the flip side of the current system is that you'll probably not see if it's cheaper/easier for you to pay someone else to do it for you.

Consider getting started in clothcraft in XI. Harvesting in XI royally sucks, but you need a steady supply of moko grass. You could grab a stack of sickles and wander aimlessly around West Sarutabaruta until your tab key falls off, but you also have the option of buying moko grass off of another PC who has more patience than you, or is better at it, or whatever. You can then spend your time doing what you would rather be doing instead of trying to find invisible harvesting points.

In XIV, being a botanist and getting some moko grass is easy, but the time and effort to do so is not zero. If you enjoy the new harvesting method (and I personally do), more power to you. But if you don't, if you'd rather do something else, too bad: you'll either need to learn to like it, or don't think about weaving. As it stands now, the only realistic way to get a steady supply of raw materials is to get it yourself.

This ends up hurting everyone, as everyone ends up having to be a part-time botanist, whether they'd rather not do botany at all or would rather do it full-time.

Until gil actually matters in XIV, it will be less an "MMORPG" and more just an "ORPG."

I like the increased ability to be self-sufficient. I don't like that it's mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

I like the increased ability to be self-sufficient. I don't like that it's mandatory.

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It's not. Get a linkshell.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Pshh, please. That'll be a Miq'ote Female only Equipment in 2.0 to keep their males in bed where they belong. line.

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hahaha... touche'

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

It's not. Get a linkshell.

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Why bother with region- and language-free servers at that point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6tKr...hannel&list=UL

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Demonik Thedestroyer?

Many people have reported him to GMs already, so if he doesn't get punished for it, then we know S.E. isn't doing anything. There are also bots farming hog hides in The Black Shroud too. It's almost a Laissez Faire type of situation at the moment, SE doesnt seem to care, and players learn to live with the "cheating".

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So we caught this guy botting on skeletons in muntuy like you said, flare on timer. we would pull the room and he casts anyway. We do this for about an hr and he shows up and says.. funny i go to facebook for 5 min and ppl are stealing my shit. HAHA we had been lvling there for 2 hrs and he was not there. got pics of the convo too. such a bad liar.

Some of you may not care because it doesnt ruin your time or you just have a low moral compass when it comes to fictional worlds but this does cause others problems even if its as small as logging out angry because someone is botting and stealing mobs from you. Its not fun and should be dealt with

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

??

You're lacking for mid level gear? Buy at your Class's Guildhouse. Only thing you really lack from that experience is accessories.

Your local guildhouse should cover your equipment until about 38 or 39, and by then it's just pushing through your leves until you hit 40.

Speaking from experience here. Lancer gear was particularly easy to get, even though I did buy a few market wards pieces, just to 'keep current' on ever piece. Could have just as easily visited guilds with similar equipment styles and leached off of gear they had at their NPCs at differing levels.

I understand the want to 'feel current' and that's ok. It encourages business for crafters or new crafters. But those who do not want to deal with Auction House RMT prices can just as likely go with NPC gear or hit their linkshell for a crafter there.

That sort of thing is likely not going to change come 2.0

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I guess depending on the server you're on buying from the guild houses is more expensive than buying from the market wards take LNC gear for example the mail is around 30-60k gil for the lvl 22 crap and the prices are gouged higher as you go along. I got one of the lancer chest pieces from a leve and if I go to the market wards i can purchase it for less money. it's also what I was going with the Copper needles I had been selling they sell for about 6k or so at the weavers guild and I sold them for about 2-3k a piece and making a decent profit off of them. So not always is it a smart idea to buy from the guild especially if you're tight on money

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

Some of you may not care because it doesnt ruin your time or you just have a low moral compass when it comes to fictional worlds but this does cause others problems even if its as small as logging out angry because someone is botting and stealing mobs from you. Its not fun and should be dealt with

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More like some of us stopped caring because SE doesn't care, so nothing will be done. Why should I bother caring anymore if I perfectly know that the STF on XIV is a joke and GMs aren't the one investigating third party tool usage?

Also SE should start changing the game design so killing "relatively low" monsters (<46) doesn't yield anything really valuable/useful at high level (i.e. material used for level 50 items). And make monsters use more mechanisms that forces a human players to be there. Add higher level monsters that roam but aren't aggressive to prevent "bot AoE" being used. If there is a lv55 monster roaming, cheaters won't be able to use random AoE.

There are tons of way to fix the game design in order to make the use of tools useless. Fighting cheaters themselves is just an endless battle.

DEATH TO ALL BOTTERS!!

Some are funny too.
they like "I had all DoW, DoH and DoL classes to 50 11 months ago but i didnt bot"
ULTRAAAAAAAAA COOOOOOMBOOOOOOO!!

lol is that someone specific you're referring to?

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Originally Posted by Technolust

If you really want to fix player botting, then people need to be willing to ostracize the players that do bot during there real life off-game times. I'm sure a lot of us know some people that bot, or have been caught botting, yet they chose to remain friends with that person. All your doing is encouraging it's use.

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(Stepping away from the limited context of the game here...)

If I'm friends with someone who does something wrong I'm promoting the sin? That's absurd. No one would have any friends. There are flawed people with good hearts. There are also those lost on wayward paths that could really use a friend to help light the way. If you would turn your back then in the end what good consider you yourself to be?

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

So we caught this guy botting on skeletons in muntuy like you said, flare on timer. we would pull the room and he casts anyway. We do this for about an hr and he shows up and says.. funny i go to facebook for 5 min and ppl are stealing my shit. HAHA we had been lvling there for 2 hrs and he was not there. got pics of the convo too. such a bad liar.

Some of you may not care because it doesnt ruin your time or you just have a low moral compass when it comes to fictional worlds but this does cause others problems even if its as small as logging out angry because someone is botting and stealing mobs from you. Its not fun and should be dealt with

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Actually i was working on my kill achievement this way but i wasn't botting in the config you can set the controller to play the game even when the window is not up. So i just watch a movie while spamming the X button and get kills. So are you sure he was botting >_>?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6tKr...hannel&list=UL

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I see Elina Roivas, Leina Roivas, Marika Roivas doing the exact same thing there. There's also some shitty warrior who does it but he's pretty slow.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Demonik Thedestroyer?

Many people have reported him to GMs already, so if he doesn't get punished for it, then we know S.E. isn't doing anything. There are also bots farming hog hides in The Black Shroud too. It's almost a Laissez Faire type of situation at the moment, SE doesnt seem to care, and players learn to live with the "cheating".

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Would you just mind your own f***ing business and leave other players, suspected bot or not alone?

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Originally Posted by Searious

lol is that someone specific you're referring to?

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Ya kinda a whole LS really..

They like "i did my share of grinding back in the day"

And if you bypass all the bs and read carefully what u will read will be.

I left my character botting crafts when i was asleep/working.
I left my character along with 5 more on autofollow on a LSmate archer who was killing Doblyns
while i was asleep/working.

But ya... you had your share of grinding back in the day :)

C.C.C.C COMBO BREAKER!!

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Would you just mind your own f***ing business and leave other players, suspected bot or not alone?

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I laughed so hard at this reply i gave birth to a clown!!!
AND! the clown was also laughing!!!

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

You say that now but it might lead to a economic crash and burn if rampant rmt botting persists too long.

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Players control the economy, and well it's already dead. Costs 10 mill for the new weapons. Good luck with your theory there sport.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

Players control the economy, and well it's already dead. Costs 10 mill for the new weapons. Good luck with your theory there sport.

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They wont be able to sell em for 100K in a month from now. bots will fill the market with them.

Ages ago:

3X GSMs 50 on the server.
Markets had about 5 banneret lances in them and they sold for about 1 mil or so.
A month or so later~~
Server suddenly had like 70 LV 50 GSMs..
Markets had 40+ banneret lances and wherent selling for 60K.

Ya you are totally right.. it's just a theory.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Why bother with region- and language-free servers at that point?

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1. Cheaper. (Server maintenance handled at one location/timeframe Upgrades/Updates handled in same sweep)

2. Sustains population easier pooling global loyal base rather than attempting to establish several different region bases.

3. Believe it or not, people do actually converse with each other.

However I'm not in the mood to argue semantics with you. Again, you've proven you've nothing to contribute to the thread thus far. You just want to argue side points.

In the end RMT's strength will be in the very system we begged for. Those who have adapted these past two years without it will be better of than those who rely upon the AH. The economy, as you seem to deny acknowledgement of, will exist with or without it - as any system of goods exchange will.

SE did a good job building Counter-RMT measures within the game's base structure itself. I just hope they continue to keep that in mind as the game develops further. The only way you get rid of RMT is to make it unprofitable for them to exist here - simply banning them does not do so, they play off of other people's money.


What I would like to see as an improvement, is contacting the Special Task group. I'm sorry SE, but I've stated this before: There should be a method within the game client to email the STG with information. Forcing the player to log out, go to the help desk on another website, fish through the appropriate forms, and maintain all the info they had sitting right in front of them at the game reduces the number of reports you are receiving and the helpful information you could be getting from those reports. Having it within the game client itself insures that when a player spots the suspicious activity, they don't overlook it just because of the tedium required to report it.

Doing this can only help you in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

1. Cheaper. (Server maintenance handled at one location/timeframe Upgrades/Updates handled in same sweep)

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Doubtful. Maintenance could be performed in the natural downtime for each region, and maintaining the Auto-Translate dictionary would be a non-issue for JP and NA servers.

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2. Sustains population easier pooling global loyal base rather than attempting to establish several different region bases.

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Irrelevant, as players from different regions are online at different times. The "JP pool," "NA pool" and "EU pool" don't overlap in any statistically meaningful way.

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3. Believe it or not, people do actually converse with each other.

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Irrelevant, as your philosophy of everything being intra-linkshell necessarily requires everyone to speak the same language.

Again: if everything is meant to be handled almost entirely within a closely-knit linkshell group, why maintain the fiction of interacting with anybody else? If you were on a private server with only your linkshell, would you even notice the difference?

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet in the previous 7 pages but there also seems to exist a mining bot.

I have seen a number of bots mining darksteel in Dragonhead since the patch. I might add that I don't know how they do it. I assume it is a program that cycles through all of the mining points regardless of whether a node is present or not. From that point on it's just a series of arrow moves up and down + enter with a delay. I can testify that they are inefficient, say 1 swing in the time it takes me to do an entire node, but the fact is that they are present.

A simple fix would be to place high lvl aggro mobs on the paths between mining points. In like manner, add up a legendary monster that can be fished up that requires some sort of fight that a bot would obviously be unable to defeat.

The problem is that the damage has already been done. Those that bot their jobs to 50 and are done doing so have no reason to bot other than farm or grind out achievements and are likely not to be caught. That's too bad...

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Would you just mind your own f***ing business and leave other players, suspected bot or not alone?

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Interesting... that's exactly what a bot would say.

http://jayveeaitch.files.wordpress.c...p-12524669.png

RMT bots will always be around

just wish shells would shun the people in their own shells who cheat, and bot etc etc, thatd really get rid of the actual players who are doing it

i can name at least 2 shells on balmung who support it, and have several players who bot everything so they can get ahead
not gonna name names(against forum rules) but they know who they are
and they are pretty damn elitist too

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

RMT bots will always be around

just wish shells would shun the people in their own shells who cheat, and bot etc etc, thatd really get rid of the actual players who are doing it

i can name at least 2 shells on balmung who support it, and have several players who bot everything so they can get ahead
not gonna name names(against forum rules) but they know who they are
and they are pretty damn elitist too

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I think the majority of the botters are non RMT players like you and I, or the players that buy gil. The gil sellers are a different case...

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Originally Posted by Matsume

I think the majority of the botters are non RMT players like you and I, or the players that buy gil. The gil sellers are a different case...

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gil sellers bot too

but i think a hgue step in the right direction would be for players to stop accepting them into their shells, and stop looking the other way when they catch them in their shell

i know my shell has an extremely strict policy against it, and we arent afraid to give the boot to anyone we find doing it


and its amazing how they act when you confornt them, they act like they are doing nothing wrong even when they admit they are doing it, it just doesnt make sense why they would even want to play a game tha they arent even playing

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Doubtful. Maintenance could be performed in the natural downtime for each region, and maintaining the Auto-Translate dictionary would be a non-issue for JP and NA servers.

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Auto-Translate needs no maintenance, it gains updates - completely different team. Furthemore, maintaining different servers at different locations (for lag) means hiring different people to do the same job - thus, it is less expensive to have the same crew manage the same number of servers it one location.

(and in the case of maintaining region specific servers in one location, see the underlined below.)

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Irrelevant, as players from different regions are online at different times. The "JP pool," "NA pool" and "EU pool" don't overlap in any statistically meaningful way.

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Incorrect. The sharing of servers maintains optimal use of servers during entire runtime hours. Your idea of 'downtime' is much smaller on a global net server than a regional one: meaning you're getting more use for less operations money.

Put simply, because the player-base is distributed from peak times, you can host more total players on a server. If you region lock servers, you would have to maintain more total servers because your peak times condense and your server is placed under more concentrated strain.

Reflecting on the previous point: If you have to maintain more servers because your peak times cannot handle the condensed load, then you're having to pay for that additional maintenance. Global Servers are cheaper in this regard as well.

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Irrelevant, as your philosophy of everything being intra-linkshell necessarily requires everyone to speak the same language.

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False:
Above assumes multi-lingual linkshells do not and should not exist.
It also assumes all players can and should play only during their specific region's peak times - or should already be in a link-shell fitting with the above restrictions.
Also assumes multilingual people do not exist.
Further assumes players are not a part of multiple linkshells.

And Finally, that statment assumes that I have a philosophy of 'intra-linkshell' market. I do not. I have listed out-of-linkshell examples, you have callously disregarded them. Your refusal to acknowledged these methods does not mean they do not exist.

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Again: if everything is meant to be handled almost entirely within a closely-knit linkshell group, why maintain the fiction of interacting with anybody else? If you were on a private server with only your linkshell, would you even notice the difference?

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Red herring. This comment is irrelevant to our discussion, as well as the thread's overall topic.

Pickup groups exist.
Shouts exist.
An economy between players within, outside of , and between Linkshell groups has existed without the presence of an Auction House for the past two years - albeit inefficiently.

This economy will still co-exist with the Auction House after it is implemented, and will serve as an alternative to the more-than-likely RMT dominated Auction Economy. This is of course disregarding the idea that anti-rmt measures are ever put in place in the Auction itself.


However, most importantly: You have no point. You're just arguing semantics for the sake of arguing.

Your skewed and incorrect understanding of the term economy is moot.
Your disagreement of all methods of barter, exchange beyond your narrow view is moot.

Auction house will be out in 2.0, and my point concerning it (The italicized above.) still stands.


To prevent this conversation from continuing to detail the topic, you've been put on ignore.

Goodbye.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

gil sellers bot too

but i think a hgue step in the right direction would be for players to stop accepting them into their shells, and stop looking the other way when they catch them in their shell

i know my shell has an extremely strict policy against it, and we arent afraid to give the boot to anyone we find doing it


and its amazing how they act when you confornt them, they act like they are doing nothing wrong even when they admit they are doing it, it just doesnt make sense why they would even want to play a game tha they arent even playing

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I was just implying there are botters that aren't related to gil selling activity.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

I was just implying there are botters that aren't related to gil selling activity.

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oh i know, what i was saying is we as a community cant do much about the rmt bots

its all the others we can actively do somethibng more then just report about

and what i was outlining is what we should do



wish i could put names/shells on here who have been caught botting on my server without getting a forum suspension, i so would

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

oh i know, what i was saying is we as a community cant do much about the rmt bots

its all the others we can actively do somethibng more then just report about

and what i was outlining is what we should do



wish i could put names/shells on here who have been caught botting on my server without getting a forum suspension, i so would

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Well i'm in a similar boat. I caught a couple linkshell members botting dragonhead the other day but I wont mention their names.

There really isn't anything other players can do other than excommunicate them, which is a bit harsh to be honest.

But I provided an easy to implement anti bot solution: Aggro Mobs. I don't know if you've done any mining in Halatali or Dragonhead as of late but I can guarentee you the reason they bot dragonhead and not halatali is because of agro mobs. A bot cannot stealth and dodge aggro mobs so they bot where there aren't any: dragonhead. I just don't understand why SE didn't patch in some ixali on the way to all the mining nodes like they did with the lalafell assassins in halatali...

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Well i'm in a similar boat. I caught a couple linkshell members botting dragonhead the other day but I wont mention their names.

There really isn't anything other players can do other than excommunicate them, which is a bit harsh to be honest.

But I provided an easy to implement anti bot solution: Aggro Mobs. I don't know if you've done any mining in Halatali or Dragonhead as of late but I can guarentee you the reason they bot dragonhead and not halatali is because of agro mobs. A bot cannot stealth and dodge aggro mobs so they bot where there aren't any: dragonhead. I just don't understand why SE didn't patch in some ixali on the way to all the mining nodes like they did with the lalafell assassins in halatali...

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wait wait, excommunicating people who cheat is harsh?
no it isnt
they deserve everything they get

and its especialy easy to deal with when they are in your own shell, and you can boot them for it, and then perhaps announce in uldah what they did so others know their crime :D

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

wait wait, excommunicating people who cheat is harsh?
no it isnt
they deserve everything they get

and its especialy easy to deal with when they are in your own shell, and you can boot them for it, and then perhaps announce in uldah what they did so others know their crime :D

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Player reputation is a way of keeping people clean, that's for sure.

But it's dangerous too - because the mob mentality can be abused against the innocent as well.

There's a Extra Credits episode on Harassment that could really be effective to this point - let me go find it.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

wait wait, excommunicating people who cheat is harsh?
no it isnt
they deserve everything they get

and its especialy easy to deal with when they are in your own shell, and you can boot them for it, and then perhaps announce in uldah what they did so others know their crime :D

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I just don't think it's fellow players responsibility to denounce botters. It's the GMs job and the designers should make the game intelligently in a way that prevents botting or stops them in their tracks. It shouldn't be that hard to do as I've suggested...

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Originally Posted by Matsume

I just don't think it's fellow players responsibility to denounce botters. It's the GMs job and the designers should make the game intelligently in a way that prevents botting or stops them in their tracks. It shouldn't be that hard to do as I've suggested...

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I have to disagree.

The GM's have a limited scope of the game itself, so much that they had to dedicate a Special Task Force to deal primarily with Botters and RMT, and even then it's reliant on our input.

If we fail in our responsibility to assist such efforts, the ours is not the right to complain about the presence of botters and RMT in the game. We spot them often when the GMs are not there or dealing with other matters.


Improvements can be made both in the community mentality of responsibility, and the active participation and ease of communication with the Special Task Groups. RMT is only going to get more intrusive the more successful the prospects of this game get.

Here is that episode of Extra Credits I was talking about.

In it, it overviews an idea of a "Guild Reputation" meter. This can be done on a personal level as well if needs be, but it would help discourage the idea of Botting as well as Harassment.