Whats the deal with tanks recently?

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I would say that many of the people with the "mentor" icon are only interested in the mount.

its not as delusional as you seem to believe.

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But thats not what i replied to. You said without rewards there would be more mentors, who mentor. Thats the delusion i was referring to

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

As a tank main, who has raided multiple xpacs, when ever I level or play another role I find about 95% of tanks disappoint me. Its so easy, yet most can't just do the job as it is meant to be played.

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It's the curse of competence. After you learn how to play a role reasonably well it's impossible not to notice how terrible the majority of players are at it.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

But thats not what i replied to. You said without rewards there would be more mentors, who mentor. Thats the delusion i was referring to

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oooooh, well, you know what they say, hope springs eternal and all that

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Tank sets the pace for the run.
Period.

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Tell that to the paste eating dps that's busy attacking one mob while 10 more are busy gnawing on your face, or the healer spamming nothing but Cure 1/Benefic 1/Physick while the enemies surrounding you peel your health bar open like a banana.

Alternatively, try single pulling when the healer and two dps are chomping at the bit to tear a horde of mobs in half and have the stones to back it up. Unless the tank is horribly undergeared and melts like a snowcone on a hot summer day, you'll find out real quick that the group sets the pace, not the tank.

The fact that there are people that still don't understand this in the year 2021 is actually baffling, I swear.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Tell that to the paste eating dps that's busy attacking one mob while 10 more are busy gnawing on your face, or the healer spamming nothing but Cure 1/Benefic 1/Physick while the enemies surrounding you peel your health bar open like a banana.

Alternatively, try single pulling when the healer and two dps are chomping at the bit to tear a horde of mobs in half and have the stones to back it up. Unless the tank is horribly undergeared and melts like a snowcone on a hot summer day, you'll find out real quick that the group sets the pace, not the tank.

The fact that there are people that still don't understand this in the year 2021 is actually baffling, I swear.

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Yeah...as a tank, one needs to learn how to read a room to see what the party's strengths and weaknesses are. It's a group effort, so it's not the tank that is in total control. Sometimes you can speed things up. Other times you may need to slow things down.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Tell that to the paste eating dps that's busy attacking one mob while 10 more are busy gnawing on your face, or the healer spamming nothing but Cure 1/Benefic 1/Physick while the enemies surrounding you peel your health bar open like a banana.

Alternatively, try single pulling when the healer and two dps are chomping at the bit to tear a horde of mobs in half and have the stones to back it up. Unless the tank is horribly undergeared and melts like a snowcone on a hot summer day, you'll find out real quick that the group sets the pace, not the tank.

The fact that there are people that still don't understand this in the year 2021 is actually baffling, I swear.

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I made every party I ever joined as a healer sign a waiver before starting because death was going to happen no matter what they did. I am the worst healer in the history of MMOs. Hell I only had about 34 healing magic skill when I got to lv 75 on WHM in FFXI... >.>

Probably the result of the expansion being nearly over, which means two things:

1. Veteran players are trying a new class out of boredom that they have little or no experience with.

2. New players are joining who are still learning about tanking.

Or 3, I suppose, and you've just been getting the short end of the RNG stick in your queues.

Or maybe all three at once.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Whats the deal with tanks recently?

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What's the deal with airline food?

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Tank sets the pace for the run.
Period.

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Healer's ability sets the pace for the run actually
The only time the Tank could have any impact on the pace is if its a Leveling dungeon on the higher end and they're somehow massively undergeared

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Originally Posted by morsdood

Healer's ability sets the pace for the run actually
The only time the Tank could have any impact on the pace is if its a Leveling dungeon on the higher end and they're somehow massively undergeared

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In the end that ability is not made for specific role. It’s the whole group’s decision.

I.e. dungeon is undertuned + Tank & DPSes wants wall pull + Healer refuse to heal a wall pull = (1)Three of the group will either be nice & comply with the slow run; or (2)Initiating vote dismiss to get a better healer; or (3)Outright ignore the healer and wall pull anyways because dungeon is so undertuned everything hits like a wet noodle.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Tank sets the pace for the run.
Period.

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Funny how good tanks never complain about that stuff, they are too busy *tanking* regardless of who pulls and decimating mobs with their big D AoEs instead of being butthurt about trivial concepts.

"But but... im the tank, you shoundt run ahead of meh!"

Please.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

making a 15min dungeon 40mins long

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If you have 40 minutes long run - single pull is likely your last problem you have to worry about out there. Because all single-pull runs I ever had as non-tank were barely around 20 minutes unless there were other issues at hand, like wipes on bosses. Even with Trusts, who are slow because they don't do AoE, I usually have 30 minutes runs at max.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

"You pull it you tank it" needs to stay in other mmos it has no reason to be in FF

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This. Aggro management is not an issue in FFXIV.

In other games, if a player pulls before the tank, the tank will have a very bad time trying to get aggro back. This is not the case in FFXIV. Tanks here can easily get aggro lead with 1-2 buttons.

If a dungeon is taking 40 minutes, it's not the tank's fault, even if they are doing single pulls. A tank doing single pulls adds maybe five minutes to a dungeon. It's certainly not optimal, I'd certainly be bored out of my mind if I had to tank like that, but people greatly overstate the length it adds to a dungeon if the DPS are doing their jobs... Heck, I'd make the argument that if you're drawing aggro as a healer, the DPS isn't actually doing their jobs.

Then again, I feel when someone whines about how bad an entire class of people are on here or reddit... They are making single bad experiences out to be some epidemic in the game. I've been playing FFXIV since 4.1 and only had about barely need more than one hand to count the truly bad experiences I've had.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Toxic "You pull it you tank it" needs to stay in other mmos it has no reason to be in FF its much easier for me to pull as a healer weith my dot and stand next to the tank than the tank trying to target inside a pack of 5mobs.

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There's certainly circumstances where "you pull it, you keep it" still applies. If I'm a tank, doing a big pull, and when I stop you don't have the courtesy to bring it to me, I'm going to assume you want to keep it for whatever reason. But that could just come from me, starting as a DPS main, actively trying to draw aggro back when aggro management was more of a think.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

As a tank main, who has raided multiple xpacs, when ever I level or play another role I find about 95% of tanks disappoint me. Its so easy, yet most can't just do the job as it is meant to be played.

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Imagine being able to press w while using your AoE.

Honestly though, if you want to change the pace, just say so, like it's kinda rude not to mention childish to be all passive aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

What's the deal with airline food?

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What's the deal with hospital food?

im not a main tank but i play tank here and there in dungeons. and as long as we survive i dont really care too much about the silent group. i go straight and i pull at least two packs..... there is a chat. i'm totally open for changes in my routine. faster? slower? additional optional packs? sure we can do that... but people have to talk about that.... or at least make themselves clearby using emotes or jumps.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Imagine being able to press w while using your AoE.

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You have to let th use w at their own pace. If you don't you are toxic. AoE is elitist, and has no place in learning (this actual is cringe to type).

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Originally Posted by Asari5

im not a main tank but i play tank here and there in dungeons. and as long as we survive i dont really care too much about the silent group. i go straight and i pull at least two packs..... there is a chat. i'm totally open for changes in my routine. faster? slower? additional optional packs? sure we can do that... but people have to talk about that.... or at least make themselves clearby using emotes or jumps.

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This is the answer to all of these dumb arguments here on the forums almost every time. It's not about which role gets to decide how things go, what's "accepted" or "normal" to do, or some vague concept of how the game is "meant" to be played; it's about communicating what works best for the four people working together at the time. Anyone who does things to try and force a dungeon to go the way they want instead of just asking in chat is doing it wrong, regardless of their role or experience level.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

What's the deal with airline food?

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The altitude messes with your taste buds, so kitchen ADJUSTS!

The only problem I have with other tanks is how they position some bosses. Too many go braindead and pull to the edge when something like Tycoon or Amhuluk needs to be in the center.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Funny how good tanks never complain about that stuff, they are too busy *tanking* regardless of who pulls and decimating mobs with their big D AoEs instead of being butthurt about trivial concepts.

"But but... im the tank, you shoundt run ahead of meh!"

Please.

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As a tank main this topic has always been funny to me. Many of the times I've spoken out against "You pull it, you tank it", I get accused of being an impatient dps or told "If you want to set the pace, play tank". I am the tank; that's why I have so little sympathy for the types of petulant losers who are willing to grief their entire party to get revenge on one player, all the while wasting everyone's time by playing incompetently and pulling one mob at a time. In my general experience, the types of players that behave this way are the kind of people that are constantly looking for things to be angry and outraged about.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

As a tank main this topic has always been funny to me. Many of the times I've spoken out against "You pull it, you tank it", I get accused of being an impatient dps or told "If you want to set the pace, play tank". I am the tank; that's why I have so little sympathy for the types of petulant losers who are willing to grief their entire party to get revenge on one player, all the while wasting everyone's time by playing incompetently and pulling one mob at a time. In my general experience, the types of players that behave this way are the kind of people that are constantly looking for things to be angry and outraged about.

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TBH the only time I generally go with letting someone else tank a mob as a tank is when doing long pulls, one of the DPS goes full burst on 1 of the enemies drawing aggro during the pull and they don't bring it to me once I hit the spot chosen to clear everything. Most of the time it's a ranged physical DPS and if they're going to run away from me because something is hitting them, I'm not going to make the effort to chase them down to get it back. More so if the enemies are types that spam various AoEs themselves. Sometimes the healer pulls it off them and brings it to me. Other times I've seen the healer just let that DPS die so the enemy comes back to me on it's own. Duties are essentially a team activity. Some DPS players need to learn there is more to playing the DPS role than push buttons, make numbers pop up.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

TBH the only time I generally go with letting someone else tank a mob as a tank is when doing long pulls, one of the DPS goes full burst on 1 of the enemies drawing aggro during the pull and they don't bring it to me once I hit the spot chosen to clear everything. Most of the time it's a ranged physical DPS and if they're going to run away from me because something is hitting them, I'm not going to make the effort to chase them down to get it back. More so if the enemies are types that spam various AoEs themselves. Sometimes the healer pulls it off them and brings it to me. Other times I've seen the healer just let that DPS die so the enemy comes back to me on it's own. Duties are essentially a team activity. Some DPS players need to learn there is more to playing the DPS role than push buttons, make numbers pop up.

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I'm pretty sure everyone here lets the dps who doesn't run to you with the add die.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

As a tank main this topic has always been funny to me. Many of the times I've spoken out against "You pull it, you tank it", I get accused of being an impatient dps or told "If you want to set the pace, play tank". I am the tank; that's why I have so little sympathy for the types of petulant losers who are willing to grief their entire party to get revenge on one player, all the while wasting everyone's time by playing incompetently and pulling one mob at a time. In my general experience, the types of players that behave this way are the kind of people that are constantly looking for things to be angry and outraged about.

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It's the same with "healer mains" proudly stating that they don't heal avoidable damage or let people die to teach them a lesson, slowing down the entire run while playing the little princess everyone needs to bow to.
I've found that many players that act like this are just salty that their oh-so-important role isn't so important after all and their sense of entitlement is entirely unfounded.
If someone picked a role because they like to feel important, "lead the party", "set the pace" or some other nonsense, they're going to be disappointed.
Tanks and healers don't get special attention or a pat on the head for doing their job and their opinion isn't more important than anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

I'm pretty sure everyone here lets the dps who doesn't run to you with the add die.

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I'm certainly not running around with a whole pack, missing healer bubbles and inconveniencing the whole party because someone needs to duel a mob in Narnia. If they're out of range for a voke/ range skill, I value the convenience of two other party members more than their life.

This is why I don’t tank. I am new to FF14 but not MMO. Yes I plaid wow but back in the day, in wow I healed and rang dps. With the “GO GO GO….” Mentality I was hesitant to tank.

In FF being able to have a main that does every job I thought it would be cool to tank. My main is BLM and I love it, no desire to really play anything else (currently, I want to get max level and raid as BLM but that could change in the future).

I thought about tanking but just doing the MSQ I have seen how “new” tanks are treated by some players, I don’t want to deal with that so I won’t tank or heal in this game, it looks fun but dealing with the “GO GO GO…” and “YOU NEED TO AND MUST PLAY THE WAY I WANT YOU TOO…..” crowd makes me cringe.

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Originally Posted by SirCadogan

This is why I don’t tank. I am new to FF14 but not MMO. Yes I plaid wow but back in the day, in wow I healed and rang dps. With the “GO GO GO….” Mentality I was hesitant to tank.

In FF being able to have a main that does every job I thought it would be cool to tank. My main is BLM and I love it, no desire to really play anything else (currently, I want to get max level and raid as BLM but that could change in the future).

I thought about tanking but just doing the MSQ I have seen how “new” tanks are treated by some players, I don’t want to deal with that so I won’t tank or heal in this game, it looks fun but dealing with the “GO GO GO…” and “YOU NEED TO AND MUST PLAY THE WAY I WANT YOU TOO…..” crowd makes me cringe.

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Just ignore the people's comments an attitudes when they're like that. I've had numerous tanks faceplant on long pulls when I played healer because I didn't notice I had one of the enemies targeted instead of the tank so all my heals were being cast on me... >.> (they should just be thankful I can't actually heal the enemies here like I could on other MMO's though it wasn't as bad on games where heals actually hurt undead.)

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Originally Posted by SirCadogan

This is why I don’t tank. I am new to FF14 but not MMO. Yes I plaid wow but back in the day, in wow I healed and rang dps. With the “GO GO GO….” Mentality I was hesitant to tank.

In FF being able to have a main that does every job I thought it would be cool to tank. My main is BLM and I love it, no desire to really play anything else (currently, I want to get max level and raid as BLM but that could change in the future).

I thought about tanking but just doing the MSQ I have seen how “new” tanks are treated by some players, I don’t want to deal with that so I won’t tank or heal in this game, it looks fun but dealing with the “GO GO GO…” and “YOU NEED TO AND MUST PLAY THE WAY I WANT YOU TOO…..” crowd makes me cringe.

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you've barely touched the MSQ on your two connected accounts and base your entire community experience on, what I assume, a handful of dungeons at most?
how dare people respect their time, how dare they expect tanks in high-to-max level content to play their class at a normal level? unheard of!
I'm sorry that you find it cringe that people expect tanks to tank, not do it at a snail's pace and throw tantrums when people want to go faster, but you do you, I guess

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

I keep getting groups with tanks who NEVER aoe even on trash packs of 5+ and NEVER use their CDs. Its driving me insane. I should not be pulling hate with a gravity while healing because they don't know how to aoe... And don't get me started on the ones who never aoe AND pull 1 mob at a time making a 15min dungeon 40mins long.

So few things
1. YOU HAVE AN AOE COMBO AND IT IS GENERALLY BETTER ON 3+
2. IT IS OKAY TO WIPE. IT IS BETTER TO PULL BIG AND MAYBE WIPE THAN GO AT A SNAILS PACE. "Im new to this" Cool follow the heals or dps then that have done it before and pick everything up.

Toxic "You pull it you tank it" needs to stay in other mmos it has no reason to be in FF its much easier for me to pull as a healer weith my dot and stand next to the tank than the tank trying to target inside a pack of 5mobs.

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The people you are complaining about won't be the people who are reading this post. You are wasting your time and energy.

Ok, I'm new to the game, so it may be that, but since I did a lot of stuff as DPS, tank and healer already, I say... Men, it's not that hard.
I mean. I pull one pull. If my health is down to 20% too many times, they did a lot of dmg, so one-two pulls at a time. If it stays over 30-50%, I pull the whole bloody dungeon at once. That's the first run. Throw my tank skills (it's pretty obvious everything that says "INCREASE YOUR DEFENSE" is a tank buff), and since they don't stack and have long CDs, I have to throw them in order to mantain the DMG in check. Also, area attacks, let the DPS do their thing, use my main rotation against bosses/when there are 1-2 mobs, otherwise AoE. Like in every game everytime, boss needs to be turned around, areas must be avoided but I should not move unless I have to, better eat something myself than DPS/healers, mechanics need to be consulted BEFORE entering the dungeon (that's what Google is for, and YT too) and instant kills (or tank busters as you call them here) needs to be confronted with specific skills...
So don't know. I always try to go as fast as posible. It's what tanks are for, pull as many as posible without being killed. As posible, of course, I will not pull 4 pulls if I'm struggling with 2, but for now I haven't got any complains.
I mean, encounters can have specific mechanics that are hard, but the general lines... It's pretty much the same thing. I go as fast as my equipment allows to. And I always care of having the best gear possible for my role.

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Originally Posted by Veridiano02

Ok, I'm new to the game, so it may be that, but since I did a lot of stuff as DPS, tank and healer already, I say... Men, it's not that hard.
I mean. I pull one pull. If my health is down to 20% too many times, they did a lot of dmg, so one-two pulls at a time. If it stays over 30-50%, I pull the whole bloody dungeon at once. That's the first run. Throw my tank skills (it's pretty obvious everything that says "INCREASE YOUR DEFENSE" is a tank buff), and since they don't stack and have long CDs, I have to throw them in order to mantain the DMG in check. Also, area attacks, let the DPS do their thing, use my main rotation against bosses/when there are 1-2 mobs, otherwise AoE. Like in every game everytime, boss needs to be turned around, areas must be avoided but I should not move unless I have to, better eat something myself than DPS/healers, mechanics need to be consulted BEFORE entering the dungeon (that's what Google is for, and YT too) and instant kills (or tank busters as you call them here) needs to be confronted with specific skills...
So don't know. I always try to go as fast as posible. It's what tanks are for, pull as many as posible without being killed. As posible, of course, I will not pull 4 pulls if I'm struggling with 2, but for now I haven't got any complains.
I mean, encounters can have specific mechanics that are hard, but the general lines... It's pretty much the same thing. I go as fast as my equipment allows to. And I always care of having the best gear possible for my role.

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You're doing an excellent job then and I commend you for your efforts. Pretty much by what you're saying, you're better than a good percentage of new tanks that have joined the game. Of course, I'm all for people going into dungeons blind, but the fact that you look up ahead of time is nice as well. Hopefully you'll continue to have a good time and fun in your dungeon runs and get excellent groups as well. Best of luck to you friend!

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

I keep getting groups with tanks who NEVER aoe even on trash packs of 5+ and NEVER use their CDs. Its driving me insane. I should not be pulling hate with a gravity while healing because they don't know how to aoe... And don't get me started on the ones who never aoe AND pull 1 mob at a time making a 15min dungeon 40mins long.

So few things
1. YOU HAVE AN AOE COMBO AND IT IS GENERALLY BETTER ON 3+
2. IT IS OKAY TO WIPE. IT IS BETTER TO PULL BIG AND MAYBE WIPE THAN GO AT A SNAILS PACE. "Im new to this" Cool follow the heals or dps then that have done it before and pick everything up.

Toxic "You pull it you tank it" needs to stay in other mmos it has no reason to be in FF its much easier for me to pull as a healer weith my dot and stand next to the tank than the tank trying to target inside a pack of 5mobs.

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New tank here. I love it if healer stands next to me and pulls stuff over. Please continue. Been leveling alt dps also, and tanks doing single target rotations on packs are about 50% of my runs. Then dps AoEs and gets all the aggro. So one thing the Hall of Novice does tell you is tanks use AoE. Maybe they need to yell it louder?

In plenty of cases, its just better to tell them to "always AoE for 2+ mobs" (instead of 3+)

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

And don't get me started on the ones who never aoe AND pull 1 mob at a time making a 15min dungeon 40mins long.

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Uh...not even my Trust dungeon runs last for 40 minutes...and I do those while half watching something on my second monitor.

If a dungeon is taking 40 minutes to do then there is more than one problem player in the group.

So either you are greatly exaggerating how long it takes or you're putting all the blame on one player instead of two or more.

Every once in a while I have had tanks doing funky things in my party during dungeons/raids/trials but not to the degree that I would call "often".

I main healers, and it's a bit fun dealing with the fallout most of the times, hahahah. Perfectly done content can be boring sometimes, lol.

Tanks are really bad now. Alliance raid did not long age none of them had there tank stance on and first area of the crystal tower raid 90% of the whole alliance group died from it. If your a healer this makes it very stressful on you trying to keep everyone alive. How would like it if all the dps never used the aoes on huge groups the tank pulls.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Tanks are really bad now. Alliance raid did not long age none of them had there tank stance on and first area of the crystal tower raid 90% of the whole alliance group died from it. If your a healer this makes it very stressful on you trying to keep everyone alive. How would like it if all the dps never used the aoes on huge groups the tank pulls.

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You act like DPS haven't been doing that since 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

It's the same with "healer mains" proudly stating that they don't heal avoidable damage or let people die to teach them a lesson, slowing down the entire run while playing the little princess everyone needs to bow to.
I've found that many players that act like this are just salty that their oh-so-important role isn't so important after all and their sense of entitlement is entirely unfounded.
If someone picked a role because they like to feel important, "lead the party", "set the pace" or some other nonsense, they're going to be disappointed.
Tanks and healers don't get special attention or a pat on the head for doing their job and their opinion isn't more important than anyone else's.

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I'll never understand the whole "teaching them a lesson" concept because now you've given them motivation to be equally petty. If a DPS/Healer were willing to pull ahead of you before, what makes you think they'll suddenly stop after you intentionally let them die? Now they'll do it to purposefully annoy you. If you let someone die because they stood in AoEs, well now they're refusing a raise and you essentially granted them a free AFK spell. And before anyone says, "I'll report them!" Are you going to report yourself too? They're matching their petty behavior with your own.

It just never seems like a good idea. Either kick the person or tolerate them.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

That's because, listen closely because this is important, they are the majority not the minority. You don't make a game for the tiny 1% of endgame raiders who are absolutely amazing at everything they do. You design a game around the average player who regularly makes mistakes, forgets to dodge an AoE, hasn't quite mastered their heals or their buffs, or is simply new to the content and doesn't know the mechanics. That's who you cater for, because that's the majority of your audience.

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I do love these extreme arguments. Wall pulling isn't "hardcore endgame raider" caliber. It's making the tank and healer actually have any relevance because single pull trash mobs can be tanked and kills by DPS. They're that weak. Hence why at least medium pulls are standard nowadays. Likewise, expecting tanks to use their AoE isn't endgame game level skills but basic common sense someone should know if they bothered reading their tooltips.

And no, "pull everything" is not just for penta-melded players or those with capped current tome gear. You can wall pull every single dungeon in the game with the minimal ilvl requirement. Hell, I wall pulled from Dong Mheg on at the release of Shadowbringers with the only exception being some of the super pulls like in Qitana or Mt. Gulg since I didn't know about them yet. Expert dungeons is even more of a joke. As are practically every 50-70 dungeon nowadays due to them all being nerfed. Bardam's Mette and Doma Castle are the only ones that can be a bit spicy if you're rocking full Shire but they're about it. Dungeon mobs as a whole are ridiculously weak. Even if you want to be a little cautious, then pull two packs.

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Originally Posted by SirCadogan

This is why I don’t tank. I am new to FF14 but not MMO. Yes I plaid wow but back in the day, in wow I healed and rang dps. With the “GO GO GO….” Mentality I was hesitant to tank.

In FF being able to have a main that does every job I thought it would be cool to tank. My main is BLM and I love it, no desire to really play anything else (currently, I want to get max level and raid as BLM but that could change in the future).

I thought about tanking but just doing the MSQ I have seen how “new” tanks are treated by some players, I don’t want to deal with that so I won’t tank or heal in this game, it looks fun but dealing with the “GO GO GO…” and “YOU NEED TO AND MUST PLAY THE WAY I WANT YOU TOO…..” crowd makes me cringe.

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Tanking is easy as hell, that's why. Like here is the complete newbie guide to tanking.

1. Put your tank stance on.
2. Inspect your healer, is their weapon's ilvl reasonable for the dungeon you are in? Do they at least have something in the rest of their slots?
3a. If so, pull at least 2 groups, more if you like.
3b. If not, single pull and gauge.
4. Once you've aggro'd that second group (or just the 1 if you're single pulling), use one, singular tank cd.
5. Push your aoe attacks until there are <4 monsters still standing.
6. If the defensive cd wears off and the fight still has a little bit to go, use a 2nd one.
7. Go back to 5.

That's it. That's all you have to do. Nobody will care about literally anything else you do and this is why it is so galling to everyone else in the group when prima donna tanks pitch a fit. Compared to what the healers and dps are doing this is babycakes, doable by an apkallu drinking bird tier difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

I keep getting groups with tanks who NEVER aoe even on trash packs of 5+ and NEVER use their CDs. Its driving me insane. I should not be pulling hate with a gravity while healing because they don't know how to aoe... And don't get me started on the ones who never aoe AND pull 1 mob at a time making a 15min dungeon 40mins long.

So few things
1. YOU HAVE AN AOE COMBO AND IT IS GENERALLY BETTER ON 3+
2. IT IS OKAY TO WIPE. IT IS BETTER TO PULL BIG AND MAYBE WIPE THAN GO AT A SNAILS PACE. "Im new to this" Cool follow the heals or dps then that have done it before and pick everything up.

Toxic "You pull it you tank it" needs to stay in other mmos it has no reason to be in FF its much easier for me to pull as a healer weith my dot and stand next to the tank than the tank trying to target inside a pack of 5mobs.

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I don't know if you're exaggerating to make a point or being realistic, but if your dungeon is (assuming no-wipes) taking 40 minutes to clear it's not because of your tank.

Quick dungeon runs are typically 18-20 minutes long. I can't remember the last time I've seen a wipe-free dungeon run go more than 30 minutes. They probably happen but it just hasn't been my experience. And the difference between wall-to-wall pulling and pack-by-pack is maybe a savings of 5 minutes at best, in most cases (and the wall-to-wall pulls lose that time advantage with just one wipe).

When I'm in a run with jobs being driven by good players, where packs of mobs are getting decimated quickly, then wall-to-wall pulls are definitely the way to go. But sometimes you get a group of players that just doesn't do AOE well, and those large pulls end up saving no time or (worse) end up costing you more time because the healer has to focus more on healing than damage, the fight is dragging on so long that the tank's exhausted all their cool-downs, there are so many PBOEs being cast that your melee is having to spend more time dodging than attacking, and so on. It isn't as cut and dry as people tend to make it out to be.

I just ask the healer at the start if they prefer big or normal pulls. Either answer doesn't bother me because I know the difference between them is usually a handful of minutes. And usually if you get a good group that kills quickly and things are too easy, a cautious healer will usually say they're comfortable with trying larger pulls out for the remainder of the run.

If I end up in a group with people who have never been in the dungeon before, I usually just go pack-by-pack unless someone says differently. Because I know you only get to experience a dungeon for your first time once, and I would rather spend an extra 5 minutes letting them sight-see than racing them from one wall to the next. Again, it's just a few extra minutes.. not 25+.