RIP MNK 1.x - 5.x

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

I´m actually sceptical about this and the loss of positionals. We get a new Meikyo Mudra mix, but it´s nothing new. It´s just more a copy & paste idea and we´ll have "must use" skills anyway. I can´t even believe that the job is becoming busier to justify less positionals. We just spam PB more often to perform a finisher and that with less off-GCD´s. Seriously we don´t need a 2nd SAM or NIN.

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It's also more than what Monk had this expansion mechanically since it comes up more frequently than Perfect Balance did, and it has more thought than just alternating Dragon Kick/Bootshine 6 times. At a glance this seems like this will be a bigger brain mechanic to use than Meikyo/Mudras, since its based on the Form Stance, so what you use will vary based on whether you've got Leaden Bootshine available, the duration of Twin Snakes left, and the Demolish timer. That said I agree that removing removing Raptor form positionals was unnecessary either since we've still got 3 charges of Riddle of Earth and 2 charges of True North, but more than anything Monk needed a new mechanic, and this is that even if there's some similarity with SAM/NIN.

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The new gapcloser is questionable too. If we have a look at the latest content, there is not even a need for so many movement and you rely on other players if you want it to use as an escape. I highly doubt that we´ll get content, which needs such an amount of movement, even if i hope so.

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I actually quite like it. It inherently does what you wanted Shoulder Tackle to do as a gap closer since it still targets enemies. Even if it isn't always necessary it's a net benefit to have added mobility that doesn't cost anything to use by being able to target the party with it. There's an additional charge so it can move even more. Plus it no longer has the annoyance of having to drop a Shoulder Tackle out of your burst phase if you need movement afterwards.

Overall its just an inherently more versatile skill.

Interested in the new changes. Playing monk has felt pretty much the same in pretty much every expansion except while everyone else is getting something new we get a new button to save greased lightning and lose some skills. I guess my biggest disappointment was seeing any of the old stance skills. After so long, they should all get a trait to upgrade into something else. Losing GL and those two positionals doesn't even change anything since by the end you never lose GL and your second positionals are the same as the first anyway

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Nothing wrong if monk loses more positionals. bla bla

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Really, i´m so tired of this, what´s wrong?

Pick another class? "No, i like some aesthetics."
Don´t play positionals? "No, i won´t do damage or whatever else is hindering me from ignoring stuff i dislike anyway."

Man seriously... you and the most of the guys, which cry about playing positionals, don´t even play the endgame. I´m convinced that you´re not even a proper gamer or that you´ve ever played another MMORPG.
You´ve fun smashing 3 buttons and watching your character doing awesome stuff to overheat your graphic card? Fine... it´s up to you. But not everyone is like you or another positional-hater out there. There are ppl who like some form of a challenge, engaging gameplay and a bunch of movement. MNK had this always more than any other class. Don´t play MNK if you don´t like it, that´s an easy solution. Not every class is made for everyone and any content which is not called "savage / ultimate" is so hard braindead, that you don´t need to take care about the DPS anyway. Don´t use Dots, don´t play positionals, whatever.

Guys like you are the reason why so many games out there got dumb´d down into nowhere and are plagued with microtransactions or battlepass systems. "Press 1 button, getting rewards or give me the option to buy it." How do you even call that a "gaming", when everything is going to be the same? Why does FF14 even has 18 different classes?

Not every game is made for everyone. Not any class is made for everyone. It can´t be so hard to accept that.


And how do you know that summoner got fixed? Have you played it yet?
SMN is nothing but some animations you could change with anything else. Instead of a Midare, Ifrit appears and does a skill... wow... carbuncle is still there to be there. No coop or combo skills, nothing to play around with different summons or which really helps yourself or the group. Just some "finisher-moves" behind a summon animation by clicking a button.

If anything, SE should get some impressions from this scam-game about summoners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j5CBeJ08hw
It is atleast a real summoner game with different summons, where each of them fits a role, have active and combo skills and well, you can summon 2 at once and switch them midfight!
(Even FF11 had a real summoner compared to FF14.)

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

It's also more than what Monk had this expansion mechanically since it comes up more frequently than Perfect Balance did, and it has more thought than just alternating Dragon Kick/Bootshine 6 times. At a glance this seems like this will be a bigger brain mechanic to use than Meikyo/Mudras, since its based on the Form Stance, so what you use will vary based on whether you've got Leaden Bootshine available, the duration of Twin Snakes left, and the Demolish timer. That said I agree that removing removing Raptor form positionals was unnecessary either since we've still got 3 charges of Riddle of Earth and 2 charges of True North, but more than anything Monk needed a new mechanic, and this is that even if there's some similarity with SAM/NIN.

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Yeah of course it´s atleast something. I might be even fine with it, if they wouldn´t get ride of positionals atleast. Imo it goes in the wrong direction for me. Playing melee becomes like "you´ve played 1 tank, you can play all tanks", because they all become way too similar, again! That AST will be a 100% WHM just with cards instead of ADPS is meeeeh too.

I don´t know why so many classes exists, when all subclasses gonna be the same. Maybe just create one roleclass and give us skilltrees or animations to choose? I don´t know... would bring atleast variation.

We need unique features and not just new animations with the same gauge on 3 other classes.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

I actually quite like it. It inherently does what you wanted Shoulder Tackle to do as a gap closer since it still targets enemies. Even if it isn't always necessary it's a net benefit to have added mobility that doesn't cost anything to use by being able to target the party with it. There's an additional charge so it can move even more. Plus it no longer has the annoyance of having to drop a Shoulder Tackle out of your burst phase if you need movement afterwards.

Overall its just an inherently more versatile skill.

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Yeah, gapclosers should´ve always been gapclosers and not just "extra damage skills". That´s great, but the escape mechanic is a bit questionable for MNK and i really just can hope for content, where we can make use of those dashes. That other gapclosers got little reworks, that sage has one and that scholar has a raidwide sprint gives atleast some hope for more than "move to marker A, move to marker B" stuff.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Nothing wrong if monk loses more positionals. I dont know why some monk players are so hell bent on them keeping the 6 they have. Two is enough.
Always saying it wont be monk if the positionals go etc etc. We all know that is nonsense. Squares main job should have been to remove as many positionals as possible while making the job more engaging, positionals aren't engaging the way they are implemented on monk, and in fact drives a metric ton more players away than it attracts.
What I find HILARIOUS, is that when i said take away DoTs from summoner, i got raged at like i get raged at here for saying take away the positionals, and guess what???? They took away summoner DotS, and not a single blasted complaint. Why? Because they fixed the damn job to make it more engaging to play with good QoL changes. This community is something else sometimes man, like really, unbelievable...

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I am sick of square making things easier as if we are a bunch of babies like you and others make us out to be. Do not play the class if you are so fed up with the characteristics that monk has had since 2.x (if not 1.x). If you want monk to be more like DRG and SAM which have less positionals.. then go bloody play your SAM or DRG.

Aside from the completely unnecessary axing of two positionals, there are other changes among the EW kit that concern me and I hope they're cleared up or rectified by the media tour:

- Why is Brotherhood 120 seconds on cooldown? I appreciate that it means there's less buttons to cram into a burst now, but I hope it's buffed accordingly for the longer cooldown.
- Why an Arm of the Destroyer replacement? I don't think anyone in particular ever complained about how it looked. I hope Blitz gives it some use outside of AoE at least.
- Riddle of Wind???

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Aside from the completely unnecessary axing of two positionals, there are other changes among the EW kit that concern me and I hope they're cleared up or rectified by the media tour:

- Why is Brotherhood 120 seconds on cooldown? I appreciate that it means there's less buttons to cram into a burst now, but I hope it's buffed accordingly for the longer cooldown.
- Why an Arm of the Destroyer replacement? I don't think anyone in particular ever complained about how it looked. I hope Blitz gives it some use outside of AoE at least.
- Riddle of Wind???

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As long as the potency isn't massively out of place elsewhere, 120 second Brotherhood is actually an improvement. One of the issues with Brotherhood at a top end is that a 90 second burst window doesn't align with most raidbuffs since they're in 1 or 2 minute increments. This lets Monk work better with other jobs.

Riddle of Wind looks like a replacement for something at a lower level since they've gutted a decent amount of the kit at lower level to rework it. There's a possibility that the "Fists of..." still exist at lower level, but now as buffs and they get upgraded to the Riddles at later levels, however that's just speculation on my part and it could just be a replacement for something that's completely gone.

As for replacing Arm of the Destroyer with an upgrade... well they sometimes do that to throw in a trait. Since Monk seemingly has a lot more in store than the standard 80-90 3 skills and 2 traits I'm willing to look past a changed animation. Plus it's massively better than the last time they did this with Tackle Mastery which didn't even change the animation.

Overall I'm still just waiting for the liveletter. Compared to Shadowbringers/Stormblood what they've showed is really promising, there's no major red flags that I can see, and they've given us decent explanations of what's going on with nearly everything but Anatman. I'll save flipping out until then.

MNK seems a helluvalot more promising than SMN. As of right now non-SMN mains are entranced by superficial visuals and I can’t help to think of what happened last time this happened when a job was all smoke and no fire.

Because all I saw was pressing 1 button, and Aetherflow getting the lateral axe so it no longer blends in with its damage thanks to no more dots, but another topic for another day

They didn’t completely can positionals, thank goddess. As I’m sure they were almost pressured to do it thanks to the “league of the least ambitious players” trying to cripple every job because “Job too hard, please break its kneecaps so I can have fun” so im sure Blitz mechanics is not a rework but a decent mechanic addition assuming it all flows right.

Not crazy about PB stacks, what’s the point of having stacks like this? There no benefit to holding on to them so you’ll only get 2 of them once ever if you don’t die

I’m over the moon excited for the changes. Although, it may not be exactly what I’m looking for, but it’s better then we got. I’m going to be practicing and testing out the new blitz.

As for the positionals. For those that play monk only for positionals. Maybe you should play another class?

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Not crazy about PB stacks, what’s the point of having stacks like this? There no benefit to holding on to them so you’ll only get 2 of them once ever if you don’t die

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Having charges means you actually can hold onto at least one, though. And seeing as how they're on a 40 second cooldown, I'm going to assume it'll be recommended to save one charge for Riddle of Fire. It'll make raid buff synergy far more interesting for the job, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

I am sick of square making things easier as if we are a bunch of babies like you and others make us out to be. Do not play the class if you are so fed up with the characteristics that monk has had since 2.x (if not 1.x). If you want monk to be more like DRG and SAM which have less positionals.. then go bloody play your SAM or DRG.

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Don't bother with that guy tbh, just look at how he talks in other threads.
He plays the victim and acts like anyone who disagrees with him is like insulting him personally or something.
He at least seems to understand that what he's saying is unpopular amongst MNK mains but he always frames it like '' poor me I am going to get called a moron and be bullied for my hot take '' while at the same time talking shit about the community.

Nothing anyone says or explains to him actually sticks it all goes in one ear and out the other.
Luckily the removal of Raptor form at least comes with some justification on the devs side in that MNK is going to be busier.
Personally I still think it's kinda pointless, POSITIONALS ARE NOT DIFFICULT JUST WAT WHY ARE PEOPLE HAVING SUCH SEVERE ISSUES WITH THEM??????

But... If that's really how the devs feel and it's not going to be done overall later then I can accept it along with the rework.
It still feels totally pointless tho and I might even do them anyway it's just going to feel odd to me especially with how fast it moves.
It's not like DRG where your gcd is slow and it's more methodical.

Edit: Merged posts.

Brotherhood should just be a 60s CD imo, same with Riddle of Fire.
A 120s CD almost feels like a '' waste '' of a button to me, it's like you press it and oh great now that button is just useless for 2 whole minutes.
90s is far worse tho imo it needs to be even with the rest.

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Originally Posted by Xau

question: why you think those people who are hellbent on keeping 6 positionals keep playing monk? answer: because they find doing a lot of positionals fun, let us have our fun, if you like to play a melee what has little to no positionals, why not play one of those others instead? or better yet, if you aren't playing on high end content, why not simply ignore the need to do positionals?(after all the dmg diference is not that big to be a big factor on casual content outside of clearing content slightly faster)

so me question is, why are you hellbent on positional removal on monk, if you do not like it as much, why not simply move to a job what has fewer?

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"If this job does not play how I want to, I'm not going to play another job, I'm going to complain about this one and beg for the developers to make it the way I want to."

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Nothing wrong if monk loses more positionals. I dont know why some monk players are so hell bent on them keeping the 6 they have. Two is enough.
Always saying it wont be monk if the positionals go etc etc. We all know that is nonsense. Squares main job should have been to remove as many positionals as possible while making the job more engaging, positionals aren't engaging the way they are implemented on monk, and in fact drives a metric ton more players away than it attracts.
What I find HILARIOUS, is that when i said take away DoTs from summoner, i got raged at like i get raged at here for saying take away the positionals, and guess what???? They took away summoner DotS, and not a single blasted complaint. Why? Because they fixed the damn job to make it more engaging to play with good QoL changes. This community is something else sometimes man, like really, unbelievable...

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You don’t even play MNK and yet you spouting non-sense how the job should be ?
What a joke.

No one thinks positionals are hard. I actually LOVE THEM on Dragoon. They are not something that adds a ton of skill, a bit of thought sure, but lets not call it skill. They are NOT hard to land at all, but they are for the most part, pointless.

They are mostly staying for monk, so you can breathe I guess. I would have liked them to go except on bootshine and dragon kick, but oh well. I guess a middle ground was found and it's fine.

After ARR 2.0 Monk, they just ran out of ideas for Monk gameplay. I am not upset about Square-Enix finally deleting Monk like everyone else wanted in Heavensward (3.0). Keeping up Greased Lightning used to be a challenge in ARR, but eventually Greased Lightning just became a vestigial relic of the past.

Give me Sabin and let me input Shoryuken.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

You don’t even play MNK and yet you spouting non-sense how the job should be ?
What a joke.

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This is a huge part of the problem going on right now. Even if SE implemented all the very ill-advised things a lot of these people suggested... a large portion of them still wouldn't main monk, or even play it much at all. People need to stop pushing for homogenization. Each job should have their own identity, and if you don't like a job there are plenty others.

I can't stand playing ranged casters, and feel samurai is brain dead easy and boring. That being said I don't go around demanding whacky ass changes be made to them.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

No one thinks positionals are hard. I actually LOVE THEM on Dragoon. They are not something that adds a ton of skill, a bit of thought sure, but lets not call it skill. They are NOT hard to land at all, but they are for the most part, pointless.

They are mostly staying for monk, so you can breathe I guess. I would have liked them to go except on bootshine and dragon kick, but oh well. I guess a middle ground was found and it's fine.

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So you "love" positionals on DRG and call them overall easy to play, but you dislike them on MNK and want to get ride of them? Doesn´t make sense to me unless you call "staying behind the boss 24/7" playing positionals on DRG.

And i still higly doubt that you´ve played any serious content to call "positionals on MNK are easy". There are a bunch of melee and positional unfriendly mechanics out there and you get really busy if your burst window alines them. And mistakes from other players are not even included. Maybe you´ve some footage from your MNK performance in the current savages or atleast EX? I´m curious.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

For those that play monk only for positionals. Maybe you should play another class?

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It was so obvious, that a dumb statement like that coming from you, no matter if it´s just sarcasm or not.
This game only offers ONE positional-heavy class, which is MNK. You don´t like positionals? Feel free to play 1 of the others. We MNK-mains don´t have that choice.

They seem to be keeping the core rotation - It's just the Leaden Fist Bootshine - Dragon Kick and repeat Perfect Balance window is being replaced with something more complex and flexible with better uptime - The end of Perfect Balance also puts you into Form Shift, which is a great change.
Assuming that first Blitz in the trailer is an AOE Blitz and the second single target - In my opinion it beats just elixir field (which is now one of the smaller Blitz's) and enlightenment on cooldown with the 1,2,3 combo.
The 40s 2 charge PB means we get to use that way more.

The loss of positional requirements on Twin Snakes and True Strike isn't too big of a deal to me, lets you flow from flank-rear more comfortably and mix up when needed and will generally help in fights with lots of boss spinning.

Anatman is still there in the demo they did - Interestingly Tornado kick is gone but they didn't mention it - Also Arm of the Destroyer is gone - replaced with a similar looking ability as Tornado kick so that might mean Tornado is a AotD replacement now and is AOE.

The Fist Stances are also one button now, so maybe we get slightly higher move speed and the damage buff at once?

https://i.imgur.com/LpQbhmZ.png

The issue facing monk and why feedback from people who won't main the job matters is that monk is a starter job that had an... amazingly low popularity/player satisfaction rating pretty much every poll coming about.

That is going to cause player retention issues long term, and the fact they nuked the job from orbit mid expansion tells us that they had a sort of crisis.

New monk actually may be harder than old monk in terms of proper execution. GL and positionals, as mentioned, are not really hard to do, but Monk's issue is that pretty much every mechanic it had heavily punished you for doing them poorly, and the monk's rotation didn't work towards any flashy 'reward' effect (ex: Iaijutsu, Xeno/Fire spam, Trick attack).

So it was this trifecta of badly designed: The things that made it 'challenging' were really not, and mostly existed to add to information overload in the job. When you made minor mistakes, monk as a job punished you more than any other job. And to top it off it was hard to tell if you were doing well ("I don't even know if I am doing damage" was a super common monk complaint I heard) so there isn't much of a reason to work towards it.

It seems silly, but it is a critical part of game design to get feedback not just from experts and people already into your systems, but new users, and users who don't like what you have to offer, because they are going to experience it from a very valuable perspective that you otherwise wouldn't get from people who already like how things are.

You then bias your responses based on how the ways different segments of your potential userbase interact with it. Monk's changes probably bias so hard to non-monk opinions because A: Low key I don't think monk mains really understand the design flaws of their own job that well because they mostly affect new players and are invisible if your parsing and learned the mechanics, and most just... refuse to engage with the reality that Monk is one of the few jobs that is actively disliked based on the data we can see from player run polls, and B: Monk probably was causing a disproportionate effect on the new player experience due to being a starter with a cool theme, which considering the extreme nature of doing a job overhaul mid expansion and the sudden surge in the free trial popularity SHB probably was starting to REALLY hurt sub rates of new players.

Of course, how you incorporate uninformed opinions matters to. It is sort of a game design truism to say "Players are great at spotting problems, bad at offering solutions." Stuff like "Remove all positional" is a bad solution, because positional aren't the problem, the problem was monk was a job with overwhelming amounts of information, a rotation so unintuitive with so many redundant buttons that you basically need a guide to figure it out, and which offers no rewards and all punishments in its execution. Blitz pretty clearly is designed to fix all of these problems (because you now have something to work towards in the rotation and better feedback if your doing it right because you get the blitz you want if you do, which also helps the "Am I doing damage?" problem), and removing two already unimportant positionals is just an attempt to clean up the info-clutter that makes even starting out as a monk rough.

Blitz actually paradoxically has the potential to make Monk actually harder to actually execute consistently (because, low key, monk isn't hard, it is just punishing and needlessly obtuse, and those words don't mean the same thing), while also making it easier to learn and play. Difficulty and ease of use are not opposed concepts and are actually usually fairly complementary.

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Originally Posted by AndieEldritch

The Fist Stances are also one button now, so maybe we get slightly higher move speed and the damage buff at once?

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The mysterious button is no doubt Riddle of Wind. I don't know the exact translation of the tooltip (I think it has something to do with auto-attacks actually, but don't quote me on that), but nothing about it suggests it would be a replacement to fist stances considering it's a 90 second cooldown, unless SpeckledBurd's speculation about the fist stances being turned into low level versions of the riddles is true.

https://i.gyazo.com/09f2f78539e78144...d46b110b67.png

(Tooltip in question)

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

This game only offers ONE positional-heavy class, which is MNK. You don´t like positionals? Feel free to play 1 of the others. We MNK-mains don´t have that choice.

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Sam literally loses more DPS to positionals than Monk, assuming the Monk just sits in rear 24/7. Its like a 5% DPS loss if you literally never leave rear on monk. Monk currently has the second least impactful positional abilities of any melee job right now from what I understand. It was positional oriented when missing a positional dropped your combo, but right now outside of bootshine it basically doesn't matter, while SAM loses out on essentially its burst window for not hitting positionals outside of its window, and NIN missing their window will usually be a larger DPS loss than monk missing a bootshine or two in theirs.

This is part of why a Monk rework was sorta inevitable, and why the job was so confusing to new people: A huge part of its supposed identity was basically untrue and only existed to add to a job that was essentially all white noise. The actual interesting part of Monk that demanded anything of you was balancing your buffs and debuff rotations, which still appears to be in the job.

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Originally Posted by dezzmont

Sam literally loses more DPS to positionals than Monk, assuming the Monk just sits in rear 24/7. Its like a 5% DPS loss if you literally never leave rear on monk. Monk currently has the second least impactful positional abilities of any melee job right now from what I understand. It was positional oriented when missing a positional dropped your combo, but right now outside of bootshine it basically doesn't matter, while SAM loses out on essentially its burst window for not hitting positionals outside of its window, and NIN missing their window will usually be a larger DPS loss than monk missing a bootshine or two in theirs.

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Where have you read this nonsense? SAM is losing 10 Kenki in a 7-button rotation when you ignore to play positionals on purpose. If you just stack at the back or rear, you´ll just lose 5. But you´ll still get 35 kenki for free to use kaiten and you´ve ikkishouten every 60s. Even if you play it wrong on purpose and spam your kenki in shinten instead of kaiten, you probably wouldn´t even come close to a 5% damage loss. And NIN is just losing 60 potency every 30s, when you stuck behind the boss.
Not any other melee class has such a big DPS - loss like MNK has, if you don´t play positionals. So yes it does matter on MNK. 5% are 5% in the endgame it can even go up to 10-12% if you fail pretty much everything especially bootshine... not that some braindead dungeonsrunners should care about that.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

https://i.gyazo.com/09f2f78539e78144...d46b110b67.png

(Tooltip in question)

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Interesting... something like 50% faster auto attacks for 15s? Get one auto in between GCD maybe during downtime? Less exciting but sure why not.

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Originally Posted by AndieEldritch

Interesting... something like 50% faster auto attacks for 15s? Get one auto in between GCD maybe during downtime? Less exciting but sure why not.

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It's a little unclear but looks like it's a 50% reduction in autoattack delay, which would effectively be double autoattack speed for that time. It's a little odd to phrase it that way though, but a 50% boost to autoattack DPS for 15 seconds every 90 is... pretty underwhelming for a brand new skill. (But hey underwhelming buttons, looks like it's really a Monk thing after all!)

Still, there's a couple pieces of the puzzle we're missing, it's entirely possible Monk has some mechanic that scales with autoattacks. We haven't seen any traits, after all.

As for the other ones you pointed out, the "AoE TK" one is a replacement for Arm of the Destroyer, 140 potency and guaranteed crit in opo-opo stance. Nothing too fancy. Does look cool though, if you watch the job actions trailer it's one of the first things (the three spinning kicks right after the first Perfect Balance, gives an opo-opo form chakra.)

SSS has no official word on what, if any, changes are coming with that.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Having charges means you actually can hold onto at least one, though. And seeing as how they're on a 40 second cooldown, I'm going to assume it'll be recommended to save one charge for Riddle of Fire. It'll make raid buff synergy far more interesting for the job, that's for sure.

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Wouldn’t it be a DPS loss if you didn’t use one back to back with the other? Or is that stupid of me to say that? If it’s alignment issues like tsubame had with SAM then wouldn’t it make it abit too easy to disregard it? Maybe I’m overthinking it or underestimating the usefulness of stacks like Tsubame and PB, or maybe it’s defeatist or it’s just more flexible? Like I said my feelings are complicated as I don’t want jobs to be easier and it’s a thin line between the streamlined and the reduced

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Originally Posted by Powercow

snip

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Well extra little button to pop while you wait for PB to cycle back around and fill in some extra damage in the base rotation isn't so bad, seeing as we are giving up our OGCD CD's like Elix Field for the MFB (Masterful Blitz) - Also if RoW is given low level enough it will help with Sync'd damage a bit. Being sync'd below 52 right now is pure pain.

Thought so, it looked familiar but I am too used to the Tornado kick anim being cut short - With GL gone (assuming it's now gone-gone), at least we'll see our animations properly now and maybe explains why we'd have a 90s "have some extra auto attack" button perhaps?

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

It was so obvious, that a dumb statement like that coming from you, no matter if it´s just sarcasm or not.
This game only offers ONE positional-heavy class, which is MNK. You don´t like positionals? Feel free to play 1 of the others. We MNK-mains don´t have that choice.

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Lol. Oh sunny. Always love hearing from you mate. You know just how to say all the right things. It’s hard for me to, watching the monk ride or die community effectively lose there marbles over a measly 2 positionals.

Like seriously the reason I said that was sarcasm, yes. Because for 2 years I have heard that monk is fine, monk is perfect, don’t touch monk. Balderdash! And the whole time I have listened to you putting monk on a high shelf like it’s the best designed class ever. Maybe years ago.

It’s time to move on dude. You seriously couldn’t see the writing on the wall when GL got the axe?

Like I have been saying and will continue to say. It’s not about ruining a job it’s about making one better with more engaging gameplay while complimenting its identity. I’m over the moon happy about monk getting back to something that is not as shallow as positional style gameplay!

Figured some galaxy brain like you would have figured that out by now.

I’ll be waiting patiently for your arrogant retort.

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Originally Posted by dezzmont

Its like a 5% DPS loss if you literally never leave rear on monk. Monk currently has the second least impactful positional abilities of any melee job right now

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is it crack? is it crack you smoke?

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Originally Posted by dezzmont

Sam literally loses more DPS to positionals than Monk, assuming the Monk just sits in rear 24/7. Its like a 5% DPS loss if you literally never leave rear on monk. Monk currently has the second least impactful positional abilities of any melee job right now from what I understand. It was positional oriented when missing a positional dropped your combo, but right now outside of bootshine it basically doesn't matter, while SAM loses out on essentially its burst window for not hitting positionals outside of its window, and NIN missing their window will usually be a larger DPS loss than monk missing a bootshine or two in theirs.

This is part of why a Monk rework was sorta inevitable, and why the job was so confusing to new people: A huge part of its supposed identity was basically untrue and only existed to add to a job that was essentially all white noise. The actual interesting part of Monk that demanded anything of you was balancing your buffs and debuff rotations, which still appears to be in the job.

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Better people have literally done the math.

Missing all positionals is like a 14% loss on monk. Less than 5% on the other melee. Missing just flanks on monk puts it on par with the other melee missing all of theirs.

If you ignore the existence of bootshine, then SAM has the biggest loss from a single missed positional*. But over the course of it's entire rotation? It's no more punishing than DRG or NIN.

*Edit: Though I guess the second half of DRGs Fang/Wheeling combo is also worth more. Since missing it also results in losing out on Raiden Thrust. So it's positional is essentially worth 80 potency.

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Originally Posted by dezzmont;5662274/

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You're talking over most people's heads. This is something majority of people either can't, or most likely, don't want to acknowledge because their false sense of class difficulty based on positional and asthetic that in the end amount to something artificial.

At best, it's artificial, at worst it's unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

You're talking over most people's heads. This is something majority of people either can't, or most likely, don't want to acknowledge because their false sense of class difficulty based on positional and asthetic that in the end amount to something artificial.

At best, it's artificial, at worst it's unnecessary.

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NIN has mudra. Good design
SAM has Sen. good design
DRG has blood and eye. Good design
MNK had GL…oh wait. MNK has chakra…a 1-2 button damage dump. Hardly compelling. Ok, MNK has positionals….that’s is thing. If positionals are compelling gameplay then every melee should have 6 to deal with. Oh wait…..none of the other jobs care enough to ask for positionals because they are a stupid way to give gameplay to a job. Especially when that job centers itself around the lazy design.

Blitz will be MNKs gameplay. Like mudra,Sen, dragon blood/eye and I can’t wait

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

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Yea, I think this is a better direction overall than what has been happening in prior expansions. It's not like they got rid of all positional either, only got rid of two.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I’ll be waiting patiently for your arrogant retort.

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It is staggering how little you contribute to literally every Monk thread you have ever participated in, and I shudder to imagine your thoughts on any other job in the game.

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

It is staggering how little you contribute to literally every Monk thread you have ever participated in, and I shudder to imagine your thoughts on any other job in the game.

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Shudder away. I sleep soundly.

This has become a bit aggressive everyone has their opinions on what makes a class good or bad or what the identity is, for me the identity of monk has always been more tied to speed than positionals

The being said I don't technically mind positionals HOWEVER i'm not a fan of having my own DPS tied to the gameplay of others. It's fine saying positionals are great but they aren't great when you have a tank who constantly spins the boss or who drags him somewhere that the rear is inaccessible. So while positionals themselves are fine any DPS mechanic that has the potential to limit my DPS through no fault of my own is a big no from me

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

The being said I don't technically mind positionals HOWEVER i'm not a fan of having my own DPS tied to the gameplay of others. It's fine saying positionals are great but they aren't great when you have a tank who constantly spins the boss or who drags him somewhere that the rear is inaccessible. So while positionals themselves are fine any DPS mechanic that has the potential to limit my DPS through no fault of my own is a big no from me

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It's a multiplayer game, part of the challenge is working with other players. Report tanks for griefing if they refuse to stop spinning the boss, it works, and they get an un-eraseable mark on their account that can lead to a permaban. And honestly, report any player who griefs like this, because they bring down the quality of the gameplay experience for everyone else. I don't care how long they've played, I don't care how much time they've put into their character, they deserve the ban and can start all over again for being a jackass.

Speaking frankly though, that's a dungeon/alliance raids problem/normal raids roullette, which aren't really designed to test anyone's skill. If you're worried about parses during that content... you're probably stressing over absolutely nothing. Even the most uncoordinated groups can faceroll through If you're actually doing endgame content, a tank that is purposefully griefing their DPS isn't going to last very long in the group, and if they happen to be the person who started the group, people will leave it rather than deal with their BS.

Removing something from the game just because there's a set of players who will purposefully work to ruin the experience of others is not and should never be the correct solution for any job. Ban the players who are abusing others.

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Originally Posted by AndieEldritch

With GL gone (assuming it's now gone-gone), at least we'll see our animations properly now and maybe explains why we'd have a 90s "have some extra auto attack" button perhaps?

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Greased Lightning traits are still around, Allow me to elaborate on that... Base GCD is 2.50, as we all know.

Greased Lightning I = 5% = Monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.40
Greased Lightning II = 10% = Monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.25
Greased Lightning III = 15% = Monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.12
Greased Lightning IV = 20% = monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.00

As such, the Greased Lightning traits are for certain still there, there is no doubt about that... how do I confirm this? When they did the Live Stream in the live Letter, to show off the new Monk game-play, their Monk had a GCD of 1.97, which means that they had Greased Lightning IV and almost +0 Skill Speed.

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

It's a multiplayer game, part of the challenge is working with other players. Report tanks for griefing if they refuse to stop spinning the boss, it works, and they get an un-eraseable mark on their account that can lead to a permaban. And honestly, report any player who griefs like this, because they bring down the quality of the gameplay experience for everyone else. I don't care how long they've played, I don't care how much time they've put into their character, they deserve the ban and can start all over again for being a jackass.

Speaking frankly though, that's a dungeon/alliance raids problem/normal raids roullette, which aren't really designed to test anyone's skill. If you're worried about parses during that content... you're probably stressing over absolutely nothing. Even the most uncoordinated groups can faceroll through If you're actually doing endgame content, a tank that is purposefully griefing their DPS isn't going to last very long in the group, and if they happen to be the person who started the group, people will leave it rather than deal with their BS.

Removing something from the game just because there's a set of players who will purposefully work to ruin the experience of others is not and should never be the correct solution for any job. Ban the players who are abusing others.

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I never once suggested I think they do it purposefully I have met nothing but nice people in this game and don't believe people would do that. But if you have a tank who has never played a DPS role and perhaps don't understand the importance of positionals then they can't be blamed for not understanding. And I certainly wouldn't be petty enough to report them.

It doesn't matter what content i'm running. I want to do the best job that I can. Sounds like you re advocating purely from the PoV of endgame content but I would like to perform to the best of a jobs ability at all times and unfortunately with positionals they are sometimes out of the players hands

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Monk needed a new mechanic to replace Greased Lightning and I didn't anticipate that coming back once the timer was removed.

As a long time advocate for something like Blitzes as a new mechanic, I'm pretty happy with what the showcase. I'll still wait until the Media Tour and having the tool tips before I give my final judgement but I'm cautiously optimistic at the moment.

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I have to say it was incredibly vindicating to see that come on.

It'll probably be a trashfire, but it at least will be one that looks flashy.

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Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai

Greased Lightning traits are still around, Allow me to elaborate on that... Base GCD is 2.50, as we all know.

Greased Lightning I = 5% = Monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.40
Greased Lightning II = 10% = Monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.25
Greased Lightning III = 15% = Monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.12
Greased Lightning IV = 20% = monk-exclusive base GCD is 2.00

As such, the Greased Lightning traits are for certain still there, there is no doubt about that... how do I confirm this? When they did the Live Stream in the live Letter, to show off the new Monk game-play, their Monk had a GCD of 1.97, which means that they had Greased Lightning IV and almost +0 Skill Speed.

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Saw that on the other thread, good to know.

Still feels confusing that they would mention it in the way they did. "The gameplay element of stacking Greased Lightning will be done away with - So to compensate for that Chakras will be unlocked at a lower level." as if it was still there. Miscommunication I suppose.