Worthless Live Letter

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

If you do not need the movement speed you use it as yet another mitigation tool in a healer rotation. what is so hard about that to understand?! Mitigation is always a good thing to have and in the possible chance that sch has more options for raw party mitigation then sage because of this that will be an advantage it has over sage. the movement Speed is a fringe niche effect to a cooldown that will ALWAYS be useful to have.

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Raw mitigation isn't enough. Sacred Soil has sucked for years, mostly because it was an aetherflow opportunity cost. The way the game is designed, nothing in SCH's kit can be mandatory to clear any content at any point. The mitigation from SCH-Peloton actually can't be the deciding factor in any mechanic. As a result, it's an unnecessary tool. Just use Sacred Soil. It's better because it has a regen. This move actually blows.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Raw mitigation isn't enough. Sacred Soil has sucked for years, mostly because it was an aetherflow opportunity cost. The way the game is designed, nothing in SCH's kit can be mandatory to clear any content at any point. The mitigation from SCH-Peloton actually can't be the deciding factor in any mechanic. As a result, it's an unnecessary tool. Just use Sacred Soil. It's better because it has a regen. This move actually blows.

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Yeah it is bad. However, faster movement also means longer uptime on the boss, so it could be used for a slight dps increase.

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Originally Posted by Videra

Realize that a big part of healer fun used to be managing cleric stance, cooldowns, debuffs and buffs, while having less OGCD heals.

Realize that healers also had a suite of DPS nukes in 3.X which you used based on available MP, and multiple dots to keep you paying attention during fights.

Realize that you have no idea what you're talking about.

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I've been healing since 3.2. I know exactly what I'm talking about. They removed pointless busywork that never needed to be in the game in the first place.

An extra dot to watch is not engaging, it's a waste. I do want aero 3 or an equivalent back though.

I've played all 3 healers a fair amount, and don't even recall the stuff you described being different from what we have now. The buffs still exist, we can still dps. Cleric stance going away was only a good thing.

I've said it before and I'll day it again. Stop trying to optimize everything and watch your problems cease to exist.

Lol SCH, it's so embarrassing, they got screwed again

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Lol SCH, it's so embarrassing, they got screwed again

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Belt of healers

WE NEED A NEW DESIGN TEAM FOR THE SCHOLAR.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Oh look, we got screwed again. TOLD YOH

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You can't be serious.

Neutral healing is no longer AST exclusive trait. Every healer can weave and move in between casts.

Every healer has a buff to maintain which means that they will be pressing something other than their nuke even when there is no healing.

Every healer got an upgraded version of their AoE and ST which makes them look fresh. If you switch to some old DPS like NIN you will see that their 1-2-3 combo looks older than me.

Minor Arcana got changed together with other Ast spells. They gave AST a third AoE ability, something other than star and other than Gravity.

Holy speeds up lily generation and there is a good possibility of lilies becoming oGCDs if they haven't already.
Asylum 2.0 looks great. Range is much wider so you will benefit more from using it by focusing on dealing more damage. They did say that it functionally differs from the other field actions so it might be doing something other than healing.

Useless spells and abilities like Fluid Aura got removed.

Sage is the new Scholar revamped from scratch. The old Sch was kept in the game for those who can't part with the fairy and the lore of the job.

Sage is awesome at first glance. I will see how it actually plays out.

I know this won’t be a popular viewpoint, but I felt like there were some very good things to be gleaned from the trailer:

1. Did anyone notice that the faerie actions were immediate? We have been asking for this.
2. 1.5 second nukes do help enable weaving, also something we’ve been asking for.
3. AST no longer looks like a WHM copy - the removal of the sects has allowed for more diverse card effects. Also, Starfall adds additional damage/healing ability, and Gravity 2 has some sort of stun/slow attached to it. The didn’t specify though. This is potentially great.
4. Sage allows for simultaneous damage/healing with its “Synastry” ability, something we’re been asking for. It looks to be QUITE the offensive healer.

I do agree that SCH looked pretty disappointing. My assumption is that the devs wanted one each of the pure/shield healers to be straightforward and easier to master (WHM/SCH) while the others (AST/SGE) intended for additional challenge and potential payoff. Again, I understand that many players may not appreciate this notion, but I think it fits with their language when they talk about balance and accessibility.

I don't think the skills will determine if healers are more fun to play or not in EW. Fight design will, and we don't know anything about that yet. Wait until you get to experience the new trials with the adjusted healer kits, who knows, maybe they designed fights a bit differently this time and we'll get to actually use our healing spells :)

As a side note though, i'm a bit upset they took so much time to completely redesign SMN when it was not even in a bad spot (like most DPS classes lol), and healers get almost no changes.
I understand revamping a whole job takes a lot of time, but surely healers and tanks should have been at the top of their list ... not SMN.

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Originally Posted by Charganium

My jaw dropped when they said there wasn't much they could have changed with Scholar. I don't understand how they can think the current design is okay even after the past two years of complaints.

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I want to use this as my signature

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Originally Posted by Valmaxian

I know this won’t be a popular viewpoint, but I felt like there were some very good things to be gleaned from the trailer:

1. Did anyone notice that the faerie actions were immediate? We have been asking for this.
2. 1.5 second nukes do help enable weaving, also something we’ve been asking for.
3. AST no longer looks like a WHM copy - the removal of the sects has allowed for more diverse card effects. Also, Starfall adds additional damage/healing ability, and Gravity 2 has some sort of stun/slow attached to it. The didn’t specify though. This is potentially great.
4. Sage allows for simultaneous damage/healing with its “Synastry” ability, something we’re been asking for. It looks to be QUITE the offensive healer.

I do agree that SCH looked pretty disappointing. My assumption is that the devs wanted one each of the pure/shield healers to be straightforward and easier to master (WHM/SCH) while the others (AST/SGE) intended for additional challenge and potential payoff. Again, I understand that many players may not appreciate this notion, but I think it fits with their language when they talk about balance and accessibility.

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Goanna add to the AST - it looks like we spend all our seals to charge a secondary skill? Divination no longer requires seals, but it seems like the seals do something else entirely. WHM and AST seem pretty different now imo. You can't redraw constantly - they said they limit the the number of redraws to 1 per card draw, and then the skill is disabled. I wonder what the different seals will do, since we can still end up drawing the same seal card as before.

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Originally Posted by Valmaxian

I know this won’t be a popular viewpoint, but I felt like there were some very good things to be gleaned from the trailer:

1. Did anyone notice that the faerie actions were immediate? We have been asking for this.
2. 1.5 second nukes do help enable weaving, also something we’ve been asking for.
3. AST no longer looks like a WHM copy - the removal of the sects has allowed for more diverse card effects. Also, Starfall adds additional damage/healing ability, and Gravity 2 has some sort of stun/slow attached to it. The didn’t specify though. This is potentially great.
4. Sage allows for simultaneous damage/healing with its “Synastry” ability, something we’re been asking for. It looks to be QUITE the offensive healer.

I do agree that SCH looked pretty disappointing. My assumption is that the devs wanted one each of the pure/shield healers to be straightforward and easier to master (WHM/SCH) while the others (AST/SGE) intended for additional challenge and potential payoff. Again, I understand that many players may not appreciate this notion, but I think it fits with their language when they talk about balance and accessibility.

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I'm glad astro got unshackled by from boring whm, meanwhile whm is you know boring. Also why the heck does whm the "selfish healer" have less interesting dps abilities then ast.

Lol at this rate they're going to spend more time explaining the concept of inflation and teleportation fees than they spent on the three old rusty healers :p

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Lol at this rate they're going to spend more time explaining the concept of inflation and teleportation fees than they spent on the three old rusty healers :p

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I'm wondering about that as well. Normally I'd chalk it up to the casual player base caring more about the topic, but who actually cares about teleportation fees compared to fancy-looking jobs?

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

You can't be serious.

Neutral healing is no longer AST exclusive trait. Every healer can weave and move in between casts.

Every healer has a buff to maintain which means that they will be pressing something other than their nuke even when there is no healing.

Every healer got an upgraded version of their AoE and ST which makes them look fresh. If you switch to some old DPS like NIN you will see that their 1-2-3 combo looks older than me.

Minor Arcana got changed together with other Ast spells. They gave AST a third AoE ability, something other than star and other than Gravity.

Holy speeds up lily generation and there is a good possibility of lilies becoming oGCDs if they haven't already.
Asylum 2.0 looks great. Range is much wider so you will benefit more from using it by focusing on dealing more damage. They did say that it functionally differs from the other field actions so it might be doing something other than healing.

Useless spells and abilities like Fluid Aura got removed.

Sage is the new Scholar revamped from scratch. The old Sch was kept in the game for those who can't part with the fairy and the lore of the job.

Sage is awesome at first glance. I will see how it actually plays out.

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Go away Roeshel. No one cares about your White Knighting points.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Go away Roeshel. No one cares about your White Knighting points.

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I get why devs no longer wish to communicate with Healer communities, such toxicity.

straight telling people to go away when they have different opinions.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I get why devs no longer wish to communicate with Healer communities, such toxicity.

straight telling people to go away when they have different opinions.

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This didn't just come from nowhere, years of being completely ignored does dark things to people.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Raw mitigation isn't enough. Sacred Soil has sucked for years, mostly because it was an aetherflow opportunity cost. The way the game is designed, nothing in SCH's kit can be mandatory to clear any content at any point. The mitigation from SCH-Peloton actually can't be the deciding factor in any mechanic. As a result, it's an unnecessary tool. Just use Sacred Soil. It's better because it has a regen. This move actually blows.

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Sacred Soil sucked because it costs an Aetherflow to cast, which competed with Energy Drain for damage and Lustrate/Indom's for healing the damage. This new ability does not, and now that Broil IV has the single weave space there is no loss whatsoever in using it. Just because it's a boring tool does not make it a useless one. It's another trick the scholar can pull out of that book.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I get why devs no longer wish to communicate with Healer communities, such toxicity.

straight telling people to go away when they have different opinions.

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He is white knighting, to the point of nauseum while being completely wrong on every. single. point, and just genuinely arguing things that don't need to be argued.

Enough is enough.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Sacred Soil sucked because it costs an Aetherflow to cast, which competed with Energy Drain for damage and Lustrate/Indom's for healing the damage. This new ability does not, and now that Broil IV has the single weave space there is no loss whatsoever in using it. Just because it's a boring tool does not make it a useless one. It's another trick the scholar can pull out of that book.

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Sacred Soil has been one of the strongest SCH tools ever since they added the regen to it, no idea where you're both getting this idea from that it sucks.

My early morning pre coffee thoughts:

WHM got Earthly Star

AST got Assize

SCH looks stale

Sadge looks fresh

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

He is white knighting, to the point of nauseum while being completely wrong on every. single. point, and just genuinely arguing things that don't need to be argued.

Enough is enough.

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What makes your argument valid while his not?

I agree with most healer complaints made in this forum but there're some I disagree with.

There must be healers who are happy about their current job design and philosophy.

Why should devs hear only from angry healers here and not them.

I'm not saying healer complaints are not well founded, but healer community as a whole must consider players at different skill level and interest.

I don't like the current state of healers either, but we must not tell those who like it to go away.

You and I can be very upset about the incoming changes in EW, so can people be happy about it

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I don't like the current state of healers either, but we must not tell those who like it to go away.

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Ok, so why did they devs tell healers that were a fan of 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 to go away?

Yoshi explaining that healers are in a good spot
https://c.tenor.com/6RvyvMjx3XMAAAAd...whiteboard.gif

There will surely be healers that are not angry about the changes, or lack thereof, they're probably just indifferent. Because a lot of people playing this game couldn't care less about how their job actually plays, they queue into expert roulette, press their 3 buttons to heal while watching Netflix or Youtube and call it a day.
Now the question is, should the game be designed around those kinds of players? At the end of the day they'll just take whatever SE gives them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Neutral healing is no longer AST exclusive trait. Every healer can weave and move in between casts.

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You're an AST now Harry

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Every healer has a buff to maintain which means that they will be pressing something other than their nuke even when there is no healing.

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So that's 179 button presses per fight, wait nm it's an oGCD. Back to 180 we go

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Every healer got an upgraded version of their AoE and ST which makes them look fresh. If you switch to some old DPS like NIN you will see that their 1-2-3 combo looks older than me.

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A fresh lick of paint over the same rotten carcass.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Minor Arcana got changed together with other Ast spells. They gave AST a third AoE ability, something other than star and other than Gravity.

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You're a WHM now Harry

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Holy speeds up lily generation and there is a good possibility of lilies becoming oGCDs if they haven't already.

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You're an optimist now Harry

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Asylum 2.0 looks great. Range is much wider so you will benefit more from using it by focusing on dealing more damage. They did say that it functionally differs from the other field actions so it might be doing something other than healing.

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You're an AST now Harry

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Useless spells and abilities like Fluid Aura got removed.

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Oh they actually realised Fluid Aura was still in the game files? I'd forgotten tbh =(

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Sage is the new Scholar revamped from scratch. The old Sch was kept in the game for those who can't part with the fairy and the lore of the job.

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You're a Sadge now Harry =(

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Sage is awesome at first glance. I will see how it actually plays out.

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You're not a SCH now Harry =(((((

Don't get me wrong. If these were changes off the back of HW or even SB, I wouldn't be against them. They aren't bad additions in isolation at all. However there are two very distinct things that stand out to me here:

Healing in the game needs a fundamental rethink as currently, it just doesn't work. Why is healing in levelling content often considerably harder than in casual end game content? Why is it acceptable for a healer to press one single button 180 times in a single fight? This is not a fundamental rethink, these are just 'fine' additions to a problem that SE is burying their heads in the sand about.

Secondly, SCH has a long and detailed tradition of getting horridly broken with the last few expansion releases. This really isn't doing anything to ease those fears.

My take away? It's exactly as it's been for years. The job development team are woefully out of touch with what needs to be done with the healer role as a whole.

I'll just wait until the job action pages come. That's when I rightfully got angry / concerned about AST. It's better now but anyone who played healers for 5 minutes could've seen what was wrong with 5.0 AST (before the page long list of changes 2 weeks in).

We'll see if there's a repeat.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

So that's 179 button presses per fight, wait nm it's an oGCD. Back to 180 we go

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Hey now, maybe the fights will be longer this expansion, so you get to press that button 250 times.

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Originally Posted by althenawhm

Ok, so why did they devs tell healers that were a fan of 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 to go away?

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or did they?

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

There will surely be healers that are not angry about the changes, or lack thereof, they're probably just indifferent. Because a lot of people playing this game couldn't care less about how their job actually plays, they queue into expert roulette, press their 3 buttons to heal while watching Netflix or Youtube and call it a day.
Now the question is, should the game be designed around those kinds of players? At the end of the day they'll just take whatever SE gives them anyway.

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You surely do know how exactly those people think, huh?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Oh they actually realised Fluid Aura was still in the game files? I'd forgotten tbh =(.

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In before they give it back to WHM next expansion at level 96.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Yoshi explaining that healers are in a good spot
https://c.tenor.com/6RvyvMjx3XMAAAAd...whiteboard.gif

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Misstranslation pls, this was him spending 5 minutes explaining SCH Peloton <3

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

or did they?

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They absolutely did.

"We know there are some people who wish to return to the complexity of 3.0, but we decided to not do that."

That was them acknowledging forum feedback, and stating, "We really don't care."

It was pretty damn plain to see, anyone else who thinks so, is either blind, or unable to read implied statements that PR speak.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

or did they?

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"We understand some of you want complexity, but that's not the direction we're taking".

The "compromise" between those who want complexity and those who don't is to not have any complexity at all. Broilbringers takes us into Glarewalker. Make sure you take plenty of breaks and stretch a lot; the repetitive strain injury from pressing 111111111111111 is gonna be the spiciest healer mechanic next expansion.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

They absolutely did.

"We know there are some people who wish to return to the complexity of 3.0, but we decided to not do that."

That was them acknowledging forum feedback, and stating, "We really don't care."

It was pretty damn plain to see, anyone else who thinks so, is either blind, or unable to read implied statements that PR speak.

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"We don't agree" and "we don't care" don't mean the same thing. Game developers are allowed to disagree with you. If you don't like it, you are allowed to stop playing. If it were actually the case that they thought that it was harming the game to follow the direction they are following, they wouldn't have decided to go in that direction.

Despite the shouting and screaming on the forum, something has lead them to the decision that they like the current paradigm more than the one you wish you had. I promise, anyone spending any amount of time here knows full well the loud opinions of forum goers; it hasn't gone unseen. The question is really, how many times do they have to prove that before you realize that you're fighting a battle you simply aren't going to win, and find something else to do that you actually do enjoy?

There is no way for them to present the information they are presenting to you which you wouldn't interpret as PR speak, because you can't fathom that they don't want to take the game in the direction that you think it should go. Nothing they say short of the answer that you want is going to change the way you respond to it. It has very little to do with what they say, and everything to do with what you think.

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Originally Posted by Furious

"We don't agree" and "we don't care" don't mean the same thing. Game developers are allowed to disagree with you. If you don't like it, you are allowed to stop playing. If it were actually the case that they thought that it was harming the game to follow the direction they are following, they wouldn't have decided to go in that direction.

Despite the shouting and screaming on the forum, something has lead them to the decision that they like the current paradigm more than the one you wish you had. I promise, anyone spending any amount of time here knows full well the loud opinions of forum goers; it hasn't gone unseen. The question is really, how many times do they have to prove that before you realize that you're fighting a battle you simply aren't going to win, and find something else to do that you actually do enjoy?

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I dunno how long has it been since WotLK?

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Originally Posted by althenawhm

Ok, so why did they devs tell healers that were a fan of 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 to go away?

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Did they really?

I mostly return to the healer subforum out of stark incredulity that anyone could possibly think pressing Glare five million times is engaging gameplay, especially someone who designs a game. "We disagree" oh, so you have literally never played any of the healer classes you've designed for more than ten minutes.

The Scholar Job Action Preview was so short... It ended before I even had a chance to be disappointed. I had to watch it a second time to let the feeling sink in. But in retrospect, what is Aetherflow and the Fey Guage for now? They didnt use it at all. Is Seraph gone? What about Dissipation and Energy Drain? Do we even have a second fairy option? Is Fey Illumination/Covenant also gone or simply being replaced by the Scholar personal speed/defense buff? The Scholar Preview was so quick it felt like they forgot how to play the class beforehand. I sincerely hope we aren't going into the new expansion with even less skills than BoringBringers.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Sacred Soil has been one of the strongest SCH tools ever since they added the regen to it, no idea where you're both getting this idea from that it sucks.

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I was responding to a post that was talking about the useless pre-SHB version of it and trying to compare it to the new skill. I am fully aware that the current iteration is very good.