Is anyone really shocked anymore that Blizzard can't stop making mistakes?
"Don't you guys have phones?!?!?!"
That speech still makes me wheeze.
To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's
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03-31-2021, 08:33 PMLianaThorne
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03-31-2021, 08:37 PMVelKallor
Have to agree, esp when it comes to pvp whining. No we DO NOT WANT "wurld pee vee pee", no we DO NOT want open world ganking. Ever.
I watched that on the day..and all that came to mind wasQuote:
Is anyone really shocked anymore that Blizzard can't stop making mistakes?
"Don't you guys have phones?!?!?!"
That speech still makes me wheeze.
"You are in a room with hundreds of PC enthusiasts who love the game, who have thousand dollar rigs capable of high end graphics, and hand them a pay to win mobile game whilst telling them that it will never come to PC..and you are SURPRISED when it goes down like a lead balloon??? What in the name of all thats holy did you THINK was going to happen??"
Which begs the question:Quote:
Shadowlands sold 3.7 million copies in one day.
....and how many have stayed this long? -
03-31-2021, 08:47 PMRalph2449Which makes you wonder, have they learned nothing or they know it doesnt work yet they keep trying to force their raid or die elite design because they share a similar mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
Based on an interview from a pvp dev that left blizzard some months ago I am feeling the state of WoW has less to do with some corporate boogeyman and more with the devs wanting to turn the community into what they want.
They choose to leave balance in tatters so they dont "disrupt" the fotm rerollers since we dont want to be "disruptive", they leave things to do 30% less damage because they dont want to ""force"" their elite raider class change covenant/legendary(they are too invested in their choice you see), they keep postponing balance cuz maybe something else that is broken will pop up or maybe some counter will be found so lets wait and see(6 months later with broken specs still dominating everything making the metaslaving problem worse), they listened to raid logger complaints about how they hate playing the rest of the game because azerite, visions, titanforging, world quests etc gave power so they removed all power progression from casual content JUST SO their protected elite raider class doesnt feel """forced""" to play the rest of the game and can just raid log and do nothing else.
They designed Torghast and twisting corridors, where the last layers can take 2 hours, and your reward? Nothing other than an one time maw mount and half the layers have no reward, they realy dont want to put gear rewards anywhere because omg our raid loggers will feel "forced" to play the rest of the game. -
03-31-2021, 08:55 PMVelKallor
Ralph, many years ago, I read a book by Arthur Hailey called "The Moneychangers" ( Loved that guy's work ) and there was a line uttered by their PR agent after a particular foulup
"If I was paid to think of one thing..JUST ONE..to make this organisation look BAD, to wreck its relationship with customers and shareholders alike, I could not possibly improve on what you have done without any help from me"
I miss the old Blizzard. I even miss WOW a little, but what it has become, and how it is run and how its players are treated now was for me, far beyond the pale and well beyond my tolerance and capacity for forgiveness. if you would ever like to ask me why, I invite you to find me on Kujata and we can talk away from the forums.
My character name is above, Vel Kallor
Much respect, old friend :) -
03-31-2021, 08:58 PMSaefinnThis explains so much about MPK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph2449
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03-31-2021, 09:07 PMVelKallor
They are now adding Torghast rankings, what will that be used for? To "weed out" all the "bads". 100 gil says that that will be used as a "screen" and if you arent in the top 20 ranks, expect to be kicked or excluded from groups.
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03-31-2021, 09:12 PMReynTime
What's with this forum's obesssion with WoW-bashing?
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03-31-2021, 09:30 PMEquitable_Remedy
This competitive thing between MMO player bases is weird.
I used to play WoW—the game is a lot of fun. I currently play FF14—the game is a lot of fun. I don't (and never have) worked on either game, so I don't take any pride in them. I'm not a shareholder in either company (so far as I know), so I don't particularly care which game has more subs.
These threads are weird. -
03-31-2021, 10:08 PMPentheaGod if any quote from Blizzard staff truly shows how out of touch they can be with their audience, it's that one. Having a device to play a game doesn't automatically mean you are remotely interested in that game. Especially when the audience in front of you are die-hard pc gamers. /facepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
I do feel kind of sorry for that guy though. He was in front of an audience booing him and his co-worker on stage, and he likely was not the person who chose to reveal the game at that particular point. He tried to salvage the situation, but the attempt was poor to say the least. -
03-31-2021, 10:11 PMEtherRoseFFXIV is no where near 700k-1mil. Don't know where you are getting this information. FFXIV is currently sitting around the 2.5mil mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/
WoW is currently at about 3.1mil.
https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/
You have to look at the chart of active players. Not the "Estimated" # you see at the top of the page. -
03-31-2021, 10:14 PMEtherRose"On the fence" with FFXIV because you can't make your character more muscular and racial lore is a little lacking in terms of starter zones. Yea, i won't take you seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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03-31-2021, 10:49 PMTheodricWhy?Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
Everybody plays MMO's for various reasons and FFXIV puts a heavy amount of emphasis on glamour and story. I just so happen to find both elements to be lacking. Especially the racial lore, since fantasy games are meant to be pretty immersive in that regard.
There's other improvements that I'd like to see to the game - such as longer lasting, mid core content - but it's mostly those two elements that I'd like to see improved. -
03-31-2021, 10:52 PMLaurontNot really sure what your problem is but different people have different priorities. If you yourself want to be taken seriously, perhaps show some maturity and acknowledge that.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
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03-31-2021, 10:53 PMKizuyaKatogamiCharacter customization hasn’t been updated in how many years? I’d expect people to have some gripes about that considering how much emphasis players put on their own character. He’s giving examples. Obviously there’s a lot more that would be added with a customization overhaul besides muscles, but the fact we haven’t gotten an overhaul this long and a lot of content being lacking this expansion is a bit concerning.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
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03-31-2021, 10:53 PMWoWI can't help that they keep thinking of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleImp
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03-31-2021, 11:10 PMLiam_Harper
It's no secret WoW is in a terrible state right now and shed a huge amount of their playerbase, along with a nasty content drought before their next patch. Personally I draw no satisfaction from it. I don't look over to WoW and feel "hah, they got what they deserved", I just feel disappointed that there's one less MMO as an alternative option. I love FF14, but there are things I miss from WoW and it would have made me happier to see them turn Shadowlands around and make a good expansion. It might even give ff14 some competition, which is healthy because there's definitely some complacency here with the amount of content dropped, rampant bot issue, death of crafting, no healer designer, lack of primal DNC/GNB weapons and so on. BFA was a huge disappointment though and as a result I didn't even try Shadowlands. I kept an eye on it in hopes it would show potential, but it never did. There's very little risk we'll run off to other games anymore because other games are in a slump.
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04-01-2021, 12:18 AMHaruka_RIt's just another 'This vs That' thing. Perfectly normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy
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04-01-2021, 01:51 AMPsyticI mean I personally keep both subs going neither game has me covered for what I like to do unfortunately. Casual pvp is 100x more fun in WoW to just putter around in battle grounds. Healing to me is more fun in WoW they have melee healers like Fistweave Mistweaver and Glimmer Paladin. When Im working from home I sometimes like to putter around and do world quests and battle pets in WoW. In FFXIV the open world is super bland to look at outside of ARR which for whatever reason they seemed to have more unique areas and detail. Many expansion zones in SHB and Storm are just endless badlands and the fates usually are just kill quests no interesting ones like snowboarding or flappy bird or what ever like WoW. The Pikimin clone in Gold Saucer doesnt have the depth of actual pet battling in WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
FFXIV for me is less toxic and I dont need to submit a job application to get into dungeaons like with mythic+ although FFXIV also doesnt have a mythic plus and the dps queues are longer for most content than WoW. It has its charm though and the community for me has been nicer and you can own property. So I sub to run dungeons and r -
04-01-2021, 02:03 AMPsyticI mean I personally keep both subs going neither game has me covered for what I like to do unfortunately. Casual pvp is 100x more fun in WoW to just putter around in battle grounds. Healing to me is way way more fun in WoW they have melee healers like Fistweave Mistweaver and Glimmer Paladin, Druids with Catweaveing in FFXIV its like they keep making them more similar by the patch. When Im working from home I sometimes like to putter around and do world quests and battle pets in WoW but cant really jump into a dungeon queue. In FFXIV the open world is super bland to look at in many zones (ARR for whatever reason they seemed to have more unique areas and detail). Many expansion zones in SHB and Storm are just endless red rock badlands and the fates usually are just kill quests. No interesting ones like snowboarding or flappy bird or what ever like WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
The Pikmin clone in Gold Saucer doesnt have the depth of actual pet battling in WoW which is more like pokemon and you can travel the world battling masters (I guess Triple Triad is more close to this). FFXIV for me is less toxic and I dont need to submit a job application to get into dungeons like with Mythic+ although FFXIV also doesnt have a Mythic+ at all and there is alot less to do at end game in general if your not a Savage Raider. The dps queues are longer for most content than WoW. FFXIV has its charm though and the community for me has been nicer and you can own property. So I sub to run casual dungeons and raids but for me the open world content is also lacking in FFXIV and usually boils down to "here is some mobs go kill them". Or /Beckon them, they dont even have follow AI for escort quests.
The one thing it does well is it doesnt fuu people with range loot like WoW does or layer systems designed to slow you down and thats a huge plus. However imo FFXIV could do with a few more interesting power systems such as set bonuses that change the way the class plays etc. it almost plays it a little too safe to the point it can get a tad boring the class design (especially healers as mentioned). Where as WoW re-invents the wheel every expac and if you liked something too bad its gone the next expac. Both need to be better imo in finding a balance between taking risks and going whole hog with new systems every expac. -
04-01-2021, 04:44 AMPuremallace
This thread ended up far more constructive then I thought it would after being up for about a day. For those curious I am more interested in analytical details of these types of moves by big companies to try and time their releases to coincide with other competition.
It is a common strategy of American companies. I do find it interesting to know that when the Endwalker date is announced in May (guess) that it will almost give you the exact release date for WoW's next patch. If it is too far out they will supplement the gap with a TBC release.
What I wish is that Square Enix would realize that Blizzard might act friendly but they are bloodthirsty and would crush FF14 if they could. There is no reason that FF14 should not have already adapted a Mythic plus type system in FF14 with in game leader boards and more of a focus on cosmetics vs gear progression. -
04-01-2021, 05:50 AMVelKallorBecause FF 14 REALLY needs a Raider.io type database to abuse, humiliate and denigrate players along with dps meters.Quote:
There is no reason that FF14 should not have already adapted a Mythic plus type system in FF14 with in game leader boards and more of a focus on cosmetics vs gear progression.
Thank you, NO. -
04-01-2021, 06:07 AMTheodricThe game would benefit immensely from having more content for players to tackle.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
I'm not inclined to think we shouldn't get additional types of content just because a minority of players would abuse it. By that logic, we shouldn't get any casual or fluff content either because I guarantee that there's a whole lot of abuse from portions of the supposedly 'non-toxic' FFXIV community over on the likes of Reddit and Twitter. -
04-01-2021, 06:18 AMLaurontOne thing I miss about WOW was the design of its caster classes, and the versatility of their abilities, e.g. the Mirror Images and Invisibility on Mage, or the Old God vibe Shadow Priest has going now. The things you mention, about the zone design (and I'd add to that the lack of much explicit racial distinctiveness in XIV), resonate with me, but unfortunately I find that beyond those things, WoW doesn't intrigue me enough to play it. XIV edges it out for me for the time being, but I wouldn't say by too much; we'll see what its future direction is and whether they actually go ahead and improve on their graphics engine (e.g. here), etc. I agree with your comment on XIV needing to find a better balance in that direction. I'm hoping some of the newer MMOs on the horizon do well and deliver on their promises, but I'm not placing any reliance on that until I see it happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psytic
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04-01-2021, 07:08 AMAxxionTruth be told I would not mind that. It will keep me playing a bit more in between patch cycles. And after everything i wanted to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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04-01-2021, 07:22 AMPuremallaceAnyone who played WoW or plays WoW knows that Raider.IO is a symptom of bad game design. If you understand the system it is built on RNG and the pure inability to reset a stupid timer so you are forced to min/max in situations where you never realistically would ever do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
When you wipe on a raid boss it does not screw the raid key and mess you out of loot for the entire instance. It is an incredibly stupid concept that creates a faux sense of competition. If they allowed you to reset the timer and try again for a better score they know it would cause people to gear faster and in WoW that is rule #1 of things that can never be allowed.
FF14 does not face this situation as the gearing progression has something I like to call "common sense" where the developer does not put up arbitrary RNG systems on top of gridny systems with the sole intention of slowing you down. This allows you to do something I call "enjoy the game".
Also the meta in WoW for Mythic plus is also caused by absolutely god awful class balancing that leaves some classes in an almost non existent place for months. The difference between the best and worst in FF14 is roughly 5% currently and there are not wild swings from one patch to another. My Paladin was not awesome in 5.0, crap in 5.1...semi good in 5.2...worst class in 5.3,,,,good again by 5.4 but in WoW world this is a real reality. -
04-01-2021, 07:28 AMAlarayI have my issues with raider.io, though it's not the issues you have with it. That, and XIV doesn't have addon support anyway so it's not likely something of that nature would even come around (and, additionally, in WoW for M+ I'd just start making my own groups and by proxy would raise up my raider.io since it's all just dungeon-completion grinding. I just stopped since I didn't want to do 10 a week) You don't even see that level of exclusivity with Savage raids in PF, or EX trials, so there's pretty little reason to believe people would suddenly start doing it for dungeons. And, I mean, if they do -- literally make your own group, you can't be declined from your own party.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
Mid-tier content that has some semblance of replay-ability with some worthwhile reward attached to it would be fun, IMO. Even if it's just cosmetic rewards (although I guess why do that when they can just sell you whatever new stuff on the mogstation these days lol)
Other than tomes, what other purpose do dungeons serve? At least this would make them seem a little more interesting. And, honestly? Difficult 4-man content is pretty fun -- Higher PotD floors feel more like actual dungeons compared to what we get normally (but it'd be nice to have stuff with that difficulty in mind, without needing to spend the 4+ hours getting there). -
04-01-2021, 07:34 AMY2K21Raider.IO only exists because its a measuring tool for people to know how experienced players are in M+ -- which is a one-shot. People use R.IO because its accurate in how people do the content and how consistent they are at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
If R.IO was banned, it would be something else (GearScore previously, iLvl etc.). M+ just is a system where people want the more experienced players to do high keys. THAT BEING SAID, people who gatekeep on lower keys are dredges. -
04-01-2021, 07:36 AMZanarkand-RonsoNobody is going to argue that more content, and overall more stuff to do is a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
The argument from VelKallor there is that FFXIV shouldn't become a hardcore Raiders game. The whole Meters thing is frowned on from YoshiP and the Devs for this game rightfully so, because they dont want people to become toxic and Gatekeep players from content because [Insert player name here] doesn't perform X-level of DPS.
These people exist no matter what, but the idea is to not give power to it. XIV is more Casual focused with a small Raiding Scene. -
04-01-2021, 07:47 AMMonsutaMan
FFXIV (And the best MMO of all-time imo, FFXI), are for FF fans. As much as I rave about XI, unless you are a FF fan, there are better mmo than XIV and XI.
XIV is a top MMO, it just aint ESO, WoW, or BDO.
Lebron is great, he just aint Jordan....
Dame Dolla is amazing, MR Hulu himself....But he aint no Uncle Drew......
WCW was great, but it wasn't the WWE
AEW is a solid competitor to the WWE, but it wasn't no TNA Wrestling.
Switch is great, but it aint no PS.....
Today's rap is solid....okay, that is a lie, today's rap is crap...........
...Anyway......There are levels to this. Big dog mmos extend beyond a fanbase. Not many WoW players may even know that mmo was not the 1st Warcraft game lol. Many FF players know about this franchise; evident by the many threads requesting things from other FF games.
FF will never reach the levels of online multiplayer games like Fortnite or WoW, because they do not extend beyond fans of the franchise.
I mean, I love underground rap, but the $hit aint for everybody..... -
04-01-2021, 10:09 AMKizuyaKatogamiCouldn’t agree with this more. It’s baffling to me how many people sweep all those things under the rug this expansion. Let’s not forget about veteran rewards either. Their excuse was they couldn’t think of good rewards for it yet they have no trouble coming up with mogstation items...Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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04-01-2021, 10:34 AMlinayarQuote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
Having more content aside, any abuse "done" outside of the game is irrelevant unless it spills over to the game itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
So, in conclusion:
Let's have more types of contents that are casual enough to fit the official stance of needing no third party tool!
Win-win for both sides? :cool: -
04-01-2021, 11:57 AMPsyticWhat if they had a timed Deep Dungeon with keys similar to potd or heaven on high and added gear tokens to get unique gear. Id totally tackle it. I guess Torghast was WoW trying to copy this and it blew up in their face. But I wouldnt be tying relic / legendaries to it as the only way to get them. If people can just do it as an alternate way to gear without being forced with a gun to their head and it actually had challenge modes with the leader boards it could be fun with more tile sets and interesting mechanics added. The problem with WoW is you hit a point that you HAVE to either Raid or push Mythic or go no where in gear level and dont progress. In FFXIV with being able to gear from multiple casual types of content it wouldnt be forced on you or be toxic. Id put the reward on the level as an Expert Roulette or something like that but with unique gear sets you can buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
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04-03-2021, 03:35 AMKeshLivesIf you're playing FFXIV instead of WoW for the raids...you may be doing it wrong, imo. Just sayin'...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaray
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04-03-2021, 03:37 AMAlarayEh, I prefer XIV's raids usually. I've raided in both games, WoW raids feel pretty boring unless you're doing Mythic. But that's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeshLives
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04-03-2021, 03:45 AMKeshLivesWell, in one way, I can see that, but, you probably already well know the risks of being *too much* like WoW, as well. That was tried before, and that game had a great start, a really good first expansion...and not much after that. I submit that it was *too close*, so after a while, after the new wore off, people went back to the original game, unless they were very bitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
(Having said that, I still go back and play my cleric for a month or so once a year, for nostalgia...) (I guess there's a very slim chance you're not the Pure Mallace I think you are, but I'd be surprised...)
EDIT: To be clear, I don't really have a 'pet MMO' to be unhappy at, either. WoW isn't offering what I want at this time, and that's too bad. I think there's too many tryhards too worried about how other people are playing the game, and it's a waste. YMMV. ESO, I love the overland game, but the dungeon/raid scene is even mores speed-addicted than WoW is, imo. GW2 just never really worked for me. BDO's great till the "PvP for your grinding spot" kicks in. I'm enjoying this one for now. Ask me in six months, I'll probably be playing something else by then, and just as likely as not, it may having nothing to do with anything 'wrong' with FFXIV. I played one game (WoW) from 2005 to 2012, and I will probably never repeat that, ever. I started my MMO-hopping in November 2012. I bet Pure knows what that was... -
04-03-2021, 03:46 AMKeshLivesFair enough. Different people like different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaray
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04-03-2021, 04:26 AMMemoranda
Is it bad I'm only playing at current because I feel obligated to (finally) getting at least one job to 80 and finishing the ShB story line before 6.0 hits? As many people praise this game, it still as a lot of issues-- whether or not they're as numerous as WoW's is up for debate, but I for one don't plan on staying for very long after Endwalker unless Square makes more than a token effort to help some of the more struggling jobs in the game. We all know which ones, I'm certainly not going to repost what too many of the community on the forums are parroting. But seeing as we're getting another two new jobs for 6.0, I am fully expecting that all of their development manpower is going into Sage and whatever the new melee will be instead of taking player feedback to heart when we discuss less-than-optimal jobs. You can hand me that trite, "Well, all jobs can be used and do well!" but we all know that's a bunch of horse dung. Start getting into Savage content and you start really noticing which jobs you almost never see. I was really hoping that 5.5 would at least offer a few more band-aids while we wait for Endwalker, but it looks like we're just out of luck in that regard...
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04-03-2021, 05:30 AMThemarvinNope for a game that requires or can host 100s of players.. then all MMOs is small... compared to some of the games designed for smartphones... that has 50million+ people playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
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04-03-2021, 05:43 AMPentheaI raided in WoW. I don't miss having to sink in so much time just to get a chance to clear a tier. I'm not saying I don't like working hard, but in WoW tiers typically have 9 to 13 bosses which takes a very long time to do, which means you raid a lot each lockout. And that means if you work long hours or have a family...forget about raiding. You likely just won't have the time for it. FFXIV's raiding is more accessible due to needing a much smaller time commitment each lockout.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeshLives
Also I much prefer being in a smaller raid team because it gives you more room to joke around and have a laugh. You can't do that as much in a 20 man due to voice chat becoming impossible to follow if too many join in. It's also much more difficult to manage 20 people so the tone tends to be far more serious to keep everyone in line.
And I felt that some WoW tiers had a quantity over quality issue. More bosses doesn't always equate to more fun.
Both games have good and bad things about their raid design. Which is better depends on your circumstances and what you want. For me it's FF. I enjoy that I can still clear tiers without having to sacrifice so much time I could be spending to do other things. -
04-03-2021, 06:44 AMKeshLivesI don't want you thinking I automatically think WoW raids good, FFXIV raids BAD. I don't. I remember finally downing Twin Emps many years ago, for example, but back then, I played 16 hours a day 7 days a week. Was recovering from major surgery and depression, and I was much safer in my chair playing WoW than I was doing destructive things I could have been doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
I think my comment was a little too off the cuff, really. I don't really associate FFXIV with raids, whereas I used to do a ton of it in WoW, but I know FFXIV has them, and, they're just not my favorite things anymore. If they were, I'd probably still be playing WoW. I have two different guilds who will have things cleared before aotc, but they're not like top 100, and either would simply re-invite me if I asked...but I'm just not into it anymore.
Having said that, doing the mandatory 3 runs of Crystal Tower to finish out post-ARR content was actually quite a bit of fun. I think I died twice, and was in a couple first-attempt wipes from insta-kill mechanics I wasn't aware of the first time, but I wasn't alone. No one had a fit, no one raged, someone would speak up and say, "Hey, this is how mechanic A works, so you know next attempt." No drama, no raging or ragequits; we pulled again, and moved on. Granted, it's not exactly savage difficulty in there, but I'm ok with that, too. I think it would suck to force savage difficulty as part of MSQ, really. Lots of bad to dodge, so you kept busy.