My first experience at tanking

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Yes because that's my role. They'll be confident enough knowing I take the weight off their shoulders and you haven't actually adressed anything of what I was saying. I will not change my playstyle even if you use the worst insults on me. I will continue to play Sheriff in this game and make sure that DPS don't enforce their idea of what a tank is supposed to be. I am a jerk of course, might not be the kindest, but you and this other guy really want it your way clearly. Like I said, accept that not everyone wants to do it that way.

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Your role is to take the hits for your team, not dominate them.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Your role is to take the hits for your team, not dominate them.

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I do that and I judge the situation based on my team's skill. If I see a healer underperforming and clearly struggling, I will adjust to them. If a DPS is funny enough to disregard that fact I will slap them on the wrist. Deal with it.

And dominating in the context that I will take the blame if something goes wrong. If my strategy doesn't work out you can blame me for it and I'm okay with that.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

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Your character model looks awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Your role is to take the hits for your team, not dominate them.

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These boots won't lick themselves.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Deal with it.

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Luckily we are on different data centers so I will never have to.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Call it contrarianism or whatever, but I think tanks set the pace for pulling. If I feel like the pace is up to par for larger pulls then I'll recommend it, otherwise I won't delve in it further.

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They do set the pace, but tanks also don't need the party to submit to a tank's will. It's a team effort. Every role is important. Just because the tank sets the pace, doesn't mean they are the "law" and that they reign supreme. That's just having a really big ego.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

"B-b-but the new players!" isn't a good argument to make after everything you've said previously. You know, since you have the apparent need to dominate everything.

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Well... Dominate does by definition imply a level of control and influence which arguably tanks have a great deal of responsibility here in terms of pacing, so the stance doesn't preclude consideration for new or anxious players, contrary to what you may believe.

I don't think it's that bad of a stance to have if you're a precautionary player that wants to avoid wipes, though this is generally something you can establish within the first couple of pulls prior to the first boss. Call it contrarianism or whatever, but I think tanks set the pace for pulling. If I feel like the pace is up to par for larger pulls then I'll recommend it, otherwise I won't delve in it further.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Luckily we are on different data centers so I will never have to.

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You are allowed to think however you want. I have nothing against you personally and I wish you the best, regardless of our difference in opinion.

I dominate not to make people feel bad or worse about their performance but I do it so I can make sure everything goes well. Thus my predicament regarding the DPS pulling.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Luckily we are on different data centers so I will never have to.



They do set the pace, but tanks also don't need the party to submit to a tank's will. It's a team effort. Every role is important. Just because the tank sets the pace, doesn't mean they are the "law" and that they reign supreme. That's just having a really big ego.

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They don't, no. Conversely, tanks aren't required to submit to the will of other players anyway. It is something you communicate adequately with the group instead of running off on your own accord, so this statement really does go both ways, thanks for creating another point for me though.

If I'm tanking any given dungeon, the first thing I will find out is how adequately the other members of the party are geared. If they are adequately geared, I will ask if the healer would prefer larger or smaller pulls (establishing their comfortability). The first pull of the dungeon I will use to confirm the comfortability of the group, if I feel they can adequately handle the packs and if I'm not suffering from CD exhaustion on the first pull then I will continue at the pace, else I will step it down.

If you ask me it is bold to assume that the tank and healer can handle what DPS pull on their own accord without first confirming it with the group.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

I dominate

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Except you don't. You play a support role, just like I do. Healers are the one actually dominating because they litterally choose who stays alive and who doesn't.
Tho we tanks are indeed in charge of setting up the pace of the party. But I wouldn't call that dominating.

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Originally Posted by Vaern

Except you don't. You play a support role, just like I do. Healers are the one actually dominating because they litterally choose who stays alive and who doesn't.
Tho we tanks are indeed in charge of setting up the pace of the party. But I wouldn't call that dominating.

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A support role by making decisions how to approach enemies and how to pull them and when it is appropriate to. In the broader context that I dominate the party and the enemies in the decision-making of what is appropriate based on our skill and overall performance. Some people seem to think I want to step on them (some people like that too) but that's not what I mean. How you define it is up to you entirely but I believe as a tank you're at the top of making decisions and the healer's job is not to kill their party, conversely a DPS shouldn't play like a tank when the circumstances of your party haven't been layed bare yet. If a healer pulls enemies that's fine because I can see their confidence but a DPS has no healing power to sustain the whole party and that already shows me their ego is bigger than the amount of enemies they pull. This can easily go wrong in certain instances.

There are many situations where a tank could pull everything and survive without the healer's help. They may have to use more of their abilities than normal to their inconvenience in the next pull, but it's not always true that a tank even needs to rely on the healer and that's especially true as a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There are many situations where a tank could pull everything and survive without the healer's help. They may have to use more of their abilities than normal to their inconvenience in the next pull, but it's not always true that a tank even needs to rely on the healer and that's especially true as a PLD.

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I agree wholeheartedly. However when that's not the case there's nothing more annoying than a DPS having conceptualized the dungeon run in their heads when clearly everything falls apart around them lol.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

A support role by making decisions how to approach enemies and how to pull them and when it is appropriate to. In the broader context that I dominate the party and the enemies in the decision-making of what is appropriate based on our skill and overall performance

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We're leading the way, aggroing everything and taking hits. That's about the easiest decision making you can get. Just pull wall to wall without even thinking, it works 99% of the time.

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a DPS shouldn't play like a tank when the circumstances of your party haven't been layed bare yet.

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I think I can count on one hand the number of times my healer couldn't keep up with wall to wall pulls.
In that case I can't even say if I ever got a dps who felt as if it wasn't going fast enough and decided to pull everything on their own. I guess it surely wouldn't help an already underperforming healer.

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the healer's job is not to kill their party

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And our job is to take hits for our team, that includes not letting our dps die no matter how fun it actually is to watch them pull mobs to quickly hug the floor afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Vaern

And our job is to take hits for our team, that includes not letting our dps die no matter how fun it actually is to watch them pull mobs to quickly hug the floor afterwards.

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And why should I? Regardless of how often this happens or not, I wouldn't be upset by a margin if it was one group but the ones I encountered pulled so many it even made the healer uncomfortable. I don't run much dungeons these days but every DPS I met actually let me do the job. No pull everything. Some asked if it was okay and I let them. The ones that don't and write me funny stories I see no reason to submit my playstyle to them. To each their own though. In the end we all play the way we want and if I make you uncomfortable then pray you never end up with me because I won't change for people that disregard other players because they believe their way is the right way.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

In the end we all play the way we want and if I make you uncomfortable then pray you never end up with me because I won't change even if the whole thread turns against me.

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I don't really mind how you play. I just got bugged by that "tank is dominating the party" talk. I'm not against you and certainly don't care if I ever queue with you, I'll let you do your job and I'll do mine.

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Originally Posted by Vaern

I don't really mind how you play. I just got bugged by that "tank is dominating the party" talk. I'm not against you and certainly don't care if I ever queue with you, I'll let you do your job and I'll do mine.

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I agree and ironically people took issue with that statement the most. It certainly was my fault for not explaining it correctly. Again, I'm not going to make a fuss about the DPS pulling unless there really is someone that's screwing over the whole party. Look no further than OP, one less tank because of this incident. I don't think it's fair to leverage all the blame on someone because they're fed up with that event. Instead of turning on me they should think about wether or not this concept is going to help the game grow more tanks. Certainly not with what I mentioned before in terms of skill and anxiety others may have.

Tommara

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That's why I've never tanked before in a public group in FF14, and will never do so again

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Please reconsider. I was terrified of tanking and have had some bruising experiences, but thanks to some kind players who walked me through methods and practice, i do now. Not the high end stuff, but Ive done a lot of the raids and dungeons, you will find a lot of good groups along the way.

Please dont let one bad set put you off..we need good tanks

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so I was fine waiting for them before engaging.

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..and that is the hallmark of a good tank. One with patience.

Had a dungeon the other day where a SMN kept pulling ahead, so we just stood there and let him be well and truly mollicated. When he respawned and ran back, the healer said sweetly "Wanna let the tank pull now?"

Rest of the run went like a dream.

Dont let one bad apple put you off, okay? You will grow to love it I hope, as I eventually did.

- Vel.

Here is the problem with the classic tank setting the pace mindset. It largely does not work in this game since the only pace where a tank is required is wall-to-wall pulls. So in practice tanks should have only one pace.

Sure if the group is struggling and stuff that is a different story though tbh as a healer all I need is the tank to do AoE and one dps to do an AoE. Though I mostly play WHM so my AoE is nutty.

I do have issues where tanks do single pulls out of a desire to seek comfort cause I can heal a dps through a single pull and even dungeon bosses. A single pull tank is a giant waste of space. So the mindset of tanks set the pace for the most part is fine, but when tanks exercise that right to dominate the party so to speak when it comes to being a waste of space is what I think a lot of people may have issue with.

Though my view has bias since I often ask tanks to take gear off just so I have something to heal.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Tommara



Please reconsider. I was terrified of tanking and have had some bruising experiences, but thanks to some kind players who walked me through methods and practice, i do now. Not the high end stuff, but Ive done a lot of the raids and dungeons, you will find a lot of good groups along the way.

Please dont let one bad set put you off..we need good tanks



..and that is the hallmark of a good tank. One with patience.

Had a dungeon the other day where a SMN kept pulling ahead, so we just stood there and let him be well and truly mollicated. When he respawned and ran back, the healer said sweetly "Wanna let the tank pull now?"

Rest of the run went like a dream.

Dont let one bad apple put you off, okay? You will grow to love it I hope, as I eventually did.

- Vel.

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Also here is the issue with that it only works if the group follows suit. If the other dps helped the smn they probably could have done it. If the healer helped they most definitely would have done it. I have ran into tanks that do what you do I just heal the dps then you find yourself in a weird spot stand around doing nothing just to prove a point or suck it up and perform your given role.

I have only ever done that once, usually I just sigh and get on with it.

Funny part is that Ive had very very few bad groups...and a lot of VERY awesome ones. :)

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Originally Posted by Tommara

No one died. But there was this ranged dps toon who apparently thought that killing everything was a good idea, while I thought that just completing the dungeon objectives was a better idea.

The dps toon started crowing about "Yay, I'm tanking!" Apparently, it didn't occur to him that was only because the healer and I would bail him out. This was just Sastasha, btw, with at least one member who was watching cutscenes, so I was fine waiting for them before engaging.

I know I'm preaching to the choir (Edited Note: People who do that probably don't read these forums). That's why I've never tanked before in a public group in FF14, and will never do so again. I accomplished my objective - get my baby tank to a high enough level to do Squadron missions.

Enjoy your long queue times, dps who do that. I know most of you do not behave that way, but we all suffer because of few who do.

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You really shouldn't have bailed him out. That likely only encouraged their behavior. Should have just let him die two or three times, sure he'll get salty but then at least you can tell them to fall in line or keep dying.

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Originally Posted by Areic

If it was enough of an issue probably should've just booted the guy if it bother you too much, depending how slow you were going I might have done the same. Had a tank in Dzmael Darkhold single pulling in the first area when they take almost zero damage from the blue zones, I got tired of it and pulled up to boss room myself as healer.

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If I get a healer like that, I'd adopt the 'you pulled it, now enjoy tanking it' stance. I fully recognize it's the wrong stance to have.. hell, I play WHM a lot myself in dungeons and wouldn't want a tank to do that to me.. that's why I don't try and usurp their job as the point man. If you don't like the tanks pace, tell them, tell them that you can handle big pulls and see what their response is, maybe they're not yet comfortable with the pulls you're clearly looking for. The pace of a dungeon is ideally decided by a consensus of the healer and tank of what each can handle and indeed feels comfortable with.

Anyhow, I said I would adopt above stance if I get a healer who does what you would, but in reality that will never happen because I don't do leveling dungeons as tank.. exactly because I hate the pulling game. My sense of thrill and enjoyment in tanking comes from boss fights.. trials, raids, alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There are many situations where a tank could pull everything and survive without the healer's help. They may have to use more of their abilities than normal to their inconvenience in the next pull, but it's not always true that a tank even needs to rely on the healer and that's especially true as a PLD.

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"Many" situation where a Tank could pull wall to wall and survive without a healer's help?

Such as? In which dungeon? And since you say "many", can you mention like, multiple examples of this? The only one I can imagine is Dzmael due to the crystal buff at the beginning, but I have difficulty thinking about others where a tank could pull *everything* and survive without aid from a healer. I don't think you can even do that in Dzmael past the 1st boss.

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

"Many" situation where a Tank could pull wall to wall and survive without a healer's help?

Such as? In which dungeon? And since you say "many", can you mention like, multiple examples of this? The only one I can imagine is Dzmael due to the crystal buff at the beginning, but I have difficulty thinking about others where a tank could pull *everything* and survive without aid from a healer. I don't think you can even do that in Dzmael past the 1st boss.

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This is what they call hyperbole tbh

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

"Many" situation where a Tank could pull wall to wall and survive without a healer's help?

Such as? In which dungeon? And since you say "many", can you mention like, multiple examples of this? The only one I can imagine is Dzmael due to the crystal buff at the beginning, but I have difficulty thinking about others where a tank could pull *everything* and survive without aid from a healer. I don't think you can even do that in Dzmael past the 1st boss.

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It happens that a warrior using nascent flash with a group that has a somewhat decent damage output doesn't need any attention from their healer for a while.

While this certainly doesn't happen all the time, especially in DF, it's not that rare in my experience. Basically if the pack dies fast enough there's no need to heal more than what the war can already sustain themself for.

I wouldn't call that "Many" though.

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

"Many" situation where a Tank could pull wall to wall and survive without a healer's help?

Such as? In which dungeon? And since you say "many", can you mention like, multiple examples of this? The only one I can imagine is Dzmael due to the crystal buff at the beginning, but I have difficulty thinking about others where a tank could pull *everything* and survive without aid from a healer. I don't think you can even do that in Dzmael past the 1st boss.

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(Spoiler warning on scrolling through these)

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The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard), Hullbreaker Isle (Hard), The Drowned City of Skalla, Saint Mociane's Arboretum (Hard), Shisui of the Violet Tides, Hell's Lid, The Swallow's Compass, The Antitower, The Twinning (the first pulls), Xelphatol, The Qitana Ravel (especially on PLD), Malikah's Well, The Heroes' Gauntlet, Sohm Al, Dohn Mheg (certain pulls), Matoya's Relict, Baelsar's Wall.

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The common thing about these dungeons is the item level sync is very high so that the mobs hardly hurt, or tanks have enough tools that in the right circumstances they could get through. You can do it in some leveling dungeons at higher levels because of the amount of self-heals a tank gets, and a PLD would probably pull off some of the ones I didn't mention. Some other dungeons have specific pulls that would be fine.

If you don't believe me then don't believe me... I've been tanking for many years and had enough healers disconnect or not heal much.

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

"Many" situation where a Tank could pull wall to wall and survive without a healer's help?

Such as? In which dungeon? And since you say "many", can you mention like, multiple examples of this? The only one I can imagine is Dzmael due to the crystal buff at the beginning, but I have difficulty thinking about others where a tank could pull *everything* and survive without aid from a healer. I don't think you can even do that in Dzmael past the 1st boss.

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You realize the dungeon speedrun meta is saccing a healer to bring a 3rd dps for a reason right?

Every single wall-to-wall pull can be solo-healed by PLD so long as dps is decent enough. 60 dungeons are very tight (PLD - Clemency, would need extremely high dps due to Clemency's high MP cost), 70 and higher dungeons are trivial (PLD - Req + Reduced cost clemency make it a god of solo-healing), 80 dungeons (WAR (nascent flash + one chaotic cyclone cancels 2-3 sets of autos) / PLD can easily do them, Maybe DRK if dps is extremely high)

GNB is arguably the one tank that is most reliant on a healer. DRK can heavily reduced time to death with TBN and paced out Abyssal drain to nullify a set of autos, WAR can full heal from 1 HP with Nascent Flash, and PLD is just effectively immortal for 30s+ between hallowed and Clemency being Overpowered beyond belief. If you have great dps, you could easily wall-to-wall any pull in the game when the PLD has Requiescat without the healer needing to heal at all, or maybe throwing a single ogcd.

I've even self-healed some of the wall-to-wall pulls in 71-79 dungeons after my healer accidentally stepped in the aoes when trying to holy before. It really ain't that hard. Heck, WAR could do it without even the slightest care back in 4.2+ because Steel Cyclone had built in lifesteal and IR + steel cyclone was effectively hallowed ground in a different skin with how immortal it made you.

Like, you can even see in the final SHB dungeon of the MSQ which has a decent ilvl sync (430), the WAR does as much wall-to-wall pulling as he can and he shrugs off the pulls with little effort due to how powerful Nascent Flash is. Now imagine how utterly trivial it'd be with PLD who has infinitely stronger self healing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGJ7wiPusJk

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Originally Posted by Awha

I laugh but how is this also not considered toxic also?

I mostly tank but I do not understand this mindset. In the grand scheme tank playstyle does not change be it three mobs or twenty. Group success is largely based around the healer and overall group dps.

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Of course it's toxic - but not to the people who want to get through this the most efficient way possible. Here is why DPS pulling is the most inefficient way of doing things:

(Idiot A) doesn't like the fact that the Tank is running behind the group because (Idiot A) hits Peloton to get ahead of everyone as soon as possible while out of range of everyone, or any other ability to get ahead of everyone like it's some kind of race. (Idiot A) begins pulling. (Idiot A) then starts running around like a fool, while it wastes the Tank's time to try and gather what mobs (Idiot A) keeps kiting away from Tank. (Idiot A) dies after he wall pulls himself in front of everyone while the Tank is also sprinting from behind to catch up to (Idiot A) who also hit sprint as soon as he grabbed the first set of mobs. While sprinting, Tank is trying to gather mobs off (Idiot A). Mobs go to Healer who was trying to heal (Idiot A) on the run, who now has agro on eight mobs because Tank wasn't the one pulling mobs. Thanks, (Idiot A). Healer had also tried to run to Tank to get agro, who died on the way from 8 mobs beating them on the back of the head.

You actually waste more time in a dungeon wiping and starting over because someone was just too impatient for the tank. The above represents exactly the same type of trash that I see on almost a weekly basis - no joke. You spent more time from DPS pulling, running around like they are on fire, Healer trying to heal them (because that's what they do) and can't keep up with a wall pulling moron who can't take the hits. All while the Tank is trying to gather every mob hitting the Healer and DPS and wipes everyone.

So tell me which is more toxic - Letting one die, or the group die. When I tank, especially expert, I'm the first one trying to get out in front of everyone - but I'm not burning 15 cooldowns to get there first. I use sprint in situations where I run to the wall to gather the mobs, not run to them first by hitting sprint to start off. I hit sprint after I'm gathering the 1st group, to get to the wall to gather the rest. When you F up my Chi in a group and screw up my pulls by being first to mobs to pull them, that tells me that your tanking skills in a previous life need to be shown to the rest of us. So, have at it my friend. We'll be back here enjoying the popcorn to make it that much easier to gather the mobs after you die. It's much easier to gather mobs that will run to me next when the Healer is standing right next to me and not running around like a fool.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

(Idiot A) then starts running around like a fool, while it wastes the Tank's time to try and gather what mobs (Idiot A) keeps kiting away from Tank.

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I couldn't have worded it better than you did. I agree with everything you say.

Essentially what happens is they use Sprint and Peleton to be the first in line, kite the enemies away, then the party arrives and what happens next? Mob A is on the left side, and Mob B is on the right side. All the while they run around like a headless chicken because they're scared of dying, running to the healer and making the whole process a pain to go through. It may seem like nothing to them but you can't pick up aggro with so much space in-between all at once. But don't expect much from them because the Tank is supposed to suck it up for them. Since apparently that's my job's description.

If a tank ends up slowing down the process purposefully then I absolutely agree - you should tell them or kick them via vote. But that's not what happens most of the time. I pull almost every group of enemies I see provided my healer is efficent, which is clear after one group of mobs or two. By running headfirst you do not only make matters more complicated, but you're also telling me screw everyone they will put up with it anyway. NO thanks.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

Of course it's toxic - but not to the people who want to get through this the most efficient way possible. Here is why DPS pulling is the most inefficient way of doing things:

(Idiot A) doesn't like the fact that the Tank is running behind the group because (Idiot A) hits Peloton to get ahead of everyone as soon as possible while out of range of everyone, or any other ability to get ahead of everyone like it's some kind of race. (Idiot A) begins pulling. (Idiot A) then starts running around like a fool, while it wastes the Tank's time to try and gather what mobs (Idiot A) keeps kiting away from Tank. (Idiot A) dies after he wall pulls himself in front of everyone while the Tank is also sprinting from behind to catch up to (Idiot A) who also hit sprint as soon as he grabbed the first set of mobs. While sprinting, Tank is trying to gather mobs off (Idiot A). Mobs go to Healer who was trying to heal (Idiot A) on the run, who now has agro on eight mobs because Tank wasn't the one pulling mobs. Thanks, (Idiot A). Healer had also tried to run to Tank to get agro, who died on the way from 8 mobs beating them on the back of the head.

You actually waste more time in a dungeon wiping and starting over because someone was just too impatient for the tank. The above represents exactly the same type of trash that I see on almost a weekly basis - no joke. You spent more time from DPS pulling, running around like they are on fire, Healer trying to heal them (because that's what they do) and can't keep up with a wall pulling moron who can't take the hits. All while the Tank is trying to gather every mob hitting the Healer and DPS and wipes everyone.

So tell me which is more toxic - Letting one die, or the group die. When I tank, especially expert, I'm the first one trying to get out in front of everyone - but I'm not burning 15 cooldowns to get there first. I use sprint in situations where I run to the wall to gather the mobs, not run to them first by hitting sprint to start off. I hit sprint after I'm gathering the 1st group, to get to the wall to gather the rest. When you F up my Chi in a group and screw up my pulls by being first to mobs to pull them, that tells me that your tanking skills in a previous life need to be shown to the rest of us. So, have at it my friend. We'll be back here enjoying the popcorn to make it that much easier to gather the mobs after you die. It's much easier to gather mobs that will run to me next when the Healer is standing right next to me and not running around like a fool.

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That has less to do with a DPS pulling and more so an idiot pulling. If someone pulls for the tank and refuses to bring them back to the tank that is 100% on them. Hell if I was healing and ran into a tank that pulled that crap running around I would also let them die. Cannot heal stupid.

Though I will say if it is sastasha I have aoe kited all the mobs you to the clams and all the mobs before the final boss. Final area was a tad tricky cause of the range but it is was fun as a DNC. When the tank refused to do larger pulls.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Though I will say if it is sastasha I have aoe kited all the mobs you to the clams and all the mobs before the final boss.

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All the mobs. ALL. THE. MOBS.

Including the two guards at the door to the hole, and the eight in the bar who are fighting each other?

Did you complain about the lack of tanking while you were at it, while the rest of the party was in the captain's quarters? Because:

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Originally Posted by Tommara

there was this ranged dps toon who apparently thought that killing everything was a good idea, while I thought that just completing the dungeon objectives was a better idea

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Originally Posted by Pells

All the mobs. ALL. THE. MOBS.

Including the two guards at the door to the hole, and the eight in the bar who are fighting each other?

Did you complain about the lack of tanking while you were at it, while the rest of the party was in the captain's quarters? Because:

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Nah I just did it cause I got annoyed with the single pulls and the tank pulling that they are the leader so I did my own thing just to prove a point. I did ignore the slaves though. I did even say I am the captain now. I also did it so they could not remove me cause I was always in combat or had loot rolling cause they did try to wait out the timer. This was also months ago I rarely dps now in DF unless I am with friends.

My first tanking experiences were rough too. One time while I was starting out as a DRK, we were running Qarn and I was struggling. The healer turned toxic and refused to rez after wiping.

Wound up not touching tanking again until Gunbreaker dropped.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Nah I just did it cause I got annoyed with the single pulls and the tank pulling that they are the leader so I did my own thing just to prove a point. I did ignore the slaves though. I did even say I am the captain now. I also did it so they could not remove me cause I was always in combat or had loot rolling cause they did try to wait out the timer. This was also months ago I rarely dps now in DF unless I am with friends.

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I'm willing to put up with a lot. That said, if you had started doing that in my party I'd have left pretty quickly and ate the timer, even if I was the other dps. I won't be part of that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm willing to put up with a lot. That said, if you had started doing that in my party I'd have left pretty quickly and ate the timer, even if I was the other dps. I won't be part of that nonsense.

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Yeah, normally I just shut up and do nothing but they did that smug stand around crap and not aoe when I brought the mobs back so I said fine. Who needs ya, it was a test of wills who would cave first. Do not try to out stubborn me and my autistic self 9 out of 10 times you will lose that battle. Say it jokingly I am on the spectrum just so others know.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah, normally I just shut up and do nothing but they did that smug stand around crap so I said fine. Who needs ya, it was a test of wills who would cave first. Do not try to out stubborn me and my autistic self 9 out of 10 times you will lose that battle. Say it jokingly I am on the spectrum just so others know.

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Do I like when tanks do single pulls? Not really. But some players have to build up to efficient tanking so I try to be understanding. If anything, this behavior discourages new tanks from pursuing the role, which is part of what started this thread. So...good job being a jerk, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Do I like when tanks do single pulls? Not really. But some players have to build up to efficient tanking so I try to be understanding. If anything, this behavior discourages new tanks from pursuing the role, which is part of what started this thread. So...good job being a jerk, I guess?

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Never said I was not an ass nor have I never pretended to be otherwise. In the end personally DF is better off without god complex tanks that go far out there way to not aoe or even have the healer not use heals to avoid any form of aggro on the extra mobs.

As I said normally I let things go but when players go that far to stay in some weird safety or comfort zone that results in doing single pulls when the group has AoE even at the lower levels.

In the end just boils down some people just will not sit around while people try to throw weight around. Not saying what I did was right but it sure as hell was funny. It is like those times when you have dps on point and your healer wants single pulls but you have your entire tool kit. Sometimes it is just nice flex on those people that try so hard to throw their weight around. Granted I did the same I was just stubborn and lucky enough that my gambit paid off while their stood around twiddling their thumbs as they bet against me to die.

I'm a new tank (this is the first game I've played a tank). Could someone explain what wall to wall pulling is. I go one group at at time, every once in a while a dps will pull in a second group. How do you wall to wall pull?

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Originally Posted by Ahnog

I'm a new tank (this is the first game I've played a tank). Could someone explain what wall to wall pulling is. I go one group at at time, every once in a while a dps will pull in a second group. How do you wall to wall pull?

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Wall to wall pulling is pull all the mobs possible until the next block point of boss area.

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Originally Posted by Ahnog

I'm a new tank (this is the first game I've played a tank). Could someone explain what wall to wall pulling is. I go one group at at time, every once in a while a dps will pull in a second group. How do you wall to wall pull?

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You can hit Sprint and pull as many groups as you can. Sprint lasts 20 seconds if pressed when not fighting anything.

Multiple groups present more of a challenge for everyone. You, the healer and the DPS have to work harder, so it's best to rotate your mitigations Reprisal, Sheltron, Arm's Length, Rampart, Sentinel and Hallowed Ground. You can combine two of these together if incoming damage is very high and you want to help the healer out and Hallowed Ground, which makes you invincible, can be used 3-4 times throughout the dungeon if used off-cooldown on multiple packs.

Multiple groups is safe in 60/70/80 dungeons, but risky in leveling dungeons (any dungeon that is not 50/60/70/80) because of how low your gear syncs and some healers will struggle with it.

It's risky to pull multiple groups in level 50 dungeons because there are no "walls" to pull to, so you can pull half the dungeon. Some healers and tanks can handle this but it's safer to just do half, or just two packs if you aren't confident.

If you run out of mitigation and the incoming damage is high, you can run in a circle to delay the auto-attacks long enough to get healed.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah, normally I just shut up and do nothing but they did that smug stand around crap and not aoe when I brought the mobs back so I said fine. Who needs ya, it was a test of wills who would cave first. Do not try to out stubborn me and my autistic self 9 out of 10 times you will lose that battle. Say it jokingly I am on the spectrum just so others know.

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Yeah, thanks for the confirmation of what I was talking about earlier.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

Yeah, thanks for the confirmation of what I was talking about earlier.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

Yeah, thanks for the confirmation of what I was talking about earlier.

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What your saying has to do with someone being an idiot like I mentioned before and had very little to do with dps pulling for the tank. I know I was being an idiot but I was also not in the mood to just sit back and let them lord over me with their roles. As I mentioned I was lucky and stubborn enough to do what I did. Far from the right play call.

DPS that pull and just kite mobs around are annoying, but a tank that refuses to AoE mobs and single targets and asks the healer to not heal so they also do not get aggro is equally as annoying. So we apes tested our stubbornness.

I recently returned after not playing since the beginning of Stormblood and I play a Paladin primarily. I have not had any issues with DPS or Healers while PUG grouping. In fact, everyone has been patient and understanding as I learn or re-learn the dungeons.