Just got done leveling....

Liked your story so much. :D
I'd like to congratulate u myself if I can come personally to you. :D

It's not really about how you do it, but how u enjoy the experiences. It is always great having adventures with companions. :D

Hope u still continue adventuring any way u like, despite the bad things that might came across your way. ;D

Funny. I kinda have an Anti-partying campaign that's very similar to his. Not a fan of being plveled either so for me it's doing my leves over and over.

For the love of God... lock this thread, mods. (Sorry, OP.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

You got it wrong already.

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She didn't it wrong, you're one of those people who are so used to being an ass and insulting others you really don't realize it.

Quote:

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Considering that you didnt even know what you were reading

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What purpose did this have?

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Long story short, that experience is not even close to the norm, and you can stop pretending that it is.

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It's not the 'norm' and he was somehow pretending it is? I do agree with her, you seem to inject things into posts to have a reason to attack it.

This thread went from something cool. To something hillarious because of one misguided person on a tirade to defend themselves.

*edit*

Please don't bother trying to reply because you just don't get why people are bothering you, or you just refuse to admit it because your responses so far are hillariously off point to what people are even saying to you.

You take Zaaku telling you that you "Got the hidden point" and use it to defend yourself against people who aren't even saying anything about that hidden point so stop using it as a defense for part of a statement you made that was totally uncalled for in almost every single one of your posts.

yay for not telling a story about half afk while getting PL'd

Here's the thing.

I'm all for partying for exp, if it's not a required thing. It's a great experience that Zaaku, but he misses his own point. He enjoyed the experience because he subjected himself to it voluntarily, to avoid the alternative which he did not enjoy.

I could write a several paragraph page about my routine on Leves, on how I enjoy the fact that with each new ability I get, I've the time to experiment on it without the stress of worrying about people's concern's for XP/hr, or how I get to not worry so much about grabbing gear for my level because of the continual gil flow I receive during Leves, or even the bypassing the hours waiting for enough of the right people having their flags up for partying, etc.

Someone else powerleveling has no impact on that.

If anything, that desire to party up for exp, should be a call for SE to implement Level Sync. It was a great invention in FFXI, and one of the few things I encourage the FFXIV developers to take straight from FFXI.

This way, Zaaku gets what he wants more frequently, with less stress and nobody else's playstyle is effected.

Well meaning people can call for the wrong things and end up with a very poor result at the end. Closing up the plvling loopholes just means another one gets made later, or more stress gets placed on the players who come here for a low-stress environment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

This thread went from something cool. To something hillarious because of one misguided person on a tirade to defend themselves.

*edit*

Please don't bother trying to reply because you just don't get why people are bothering you, or you just refuse to admit it because your responses so far are hillariously off point to what people are even saying to you.

You take Zaaku telling you that you "Got the hidden point" and use it to defend yourself against people who aren't even saying anything about that hidden point so stop using it as a defense for part of a statement you made that was totally uncalled for in almost every single one of your posts.

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EDIT:

You know what. Obviously I have to be the bigger person here, so this is my last response to anyone who wants to attack me outside of PMs. Here is the bottom line, and I won't repeat myself again. You misunderstood my post. That is a fact. Now you have two options: admit you misjudged, or continue believing your delusions so you're justified in acting like an ass. I dont care which you do, but I should stop feeding the trolls.

You have your choice. Choose. Back to the topic at hand.


Edit2: And for those I responded to, I'm sorry for being rude. It is probably not the case that all of you are trolls, some of you might have honestly just misjudged. Unfortunately, I ran out of patience by that point so I was rude without due cause. To the rest of you, who continue to ignore the truth, you deserve every word of contention I can muster...but I'll refrain from doing so. Trolls will be trolls after all, and ppl who want to be asses will continue to do so regardless of whether they judged correctly or not. For those who took the time to understood, thank you for actually listening.

Now back to the topic. The rest of you will be ignored.


@OP I'm sorry for even responding to flame-baiting, really should have ignored it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

my responses to the OP, are the only posts on topic.

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Put yourself on a rather tall pedestall don't you?

There are tons of people talking about the OP's post, and the contents withing. I told you to not bother responding because you are totally missing the point and it's clear as day that you are. You can consider me a moron and I'll consider you as hillarious because you know why people are bothering you and dodge it every time it's brought up and then complain about the "Flame war" that you yourself perpetuate with your feigned ignorance.

But as we are as you say terribly off topic I'll leave it at that and there will be no more responses towards this portion of the topic on my behalf.

Wewt! Its great to know you are having so much fun! It makes me happy to see SE adding in content for all types of players in comparison to XI, with things like leves now and more quests and PvP rewarding experience points in 2.0. Not only is this truly a global MMO, but it is being designed to make all types of players happy!

My personal wish for 2.0 is plenty of group quests that you can level with, I love questing in groups, quests that send you all over the place with diverse monsters and environments.

You know they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. well fun is in the mind of the player. @Zaaku and Ray, ill party and have fun, ill get PLed and have fun. and there will be days when i do both and dont have fun. Point being... IT'S PREFERENCE!! dont tell me im missing out on this or that because i got a PL because thats what YOU find fun, and dont tell me how horrible it is to grind to 50 because YOU find it boring. ive found fun in both scenarios so think about it before speaking for every player.

I took the liberty of deleting my part in this silly flame-war, so hopefully that means the topic can continue.

On topic: What 2.0 needs is a more group cohesive combat system outside of boss fights. SE got it right with bosses and primals, but mob groups feel sloppy and zergish. Not much class identity going on since things die too fast and you can't really get combos off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

You know they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. well fun is in the mind of the player. @Zaaku and Ray, ill party and have fun, ill get PLed and have fun. and there will be days when i do both and dont have fun. Point being... IT'S PREFERENCE!! dont tell me im missing out on this or that because i got a PL because thats what YOU find fun, and dont tell me how horrible it is to grind to 50 because YOU find it boring. ive found fun in both scenarios so think about it before speaking for every player.

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Bahaha Raa you did it again!

In all seriousness, yes I can't speak for every player when I say that grinding to 50 is boring. I should clarify that I speak for myself in that I find it boring as of now. I have more fun getting PLed than I do grinding though, lots of lulz to be had. Like I said earlier, I think ppl should do whatever it is they find fun. If grinding is fun, grind. If endgame is fun, PL your way through the boring stuff. I really don't believe anyone should do something in a way thats not fun for them.

I still DO think, however, that the content between 1 and 40 could use some polishing. It doesn't seem to contain a whole lot, especially since most of the quests can easily be soloed.

Lux, I agree with you.

The only party I ever joined occured during my grind through 49. As you said, it was a total zerg-fest. Didn't feel nearly as structered as the old FFXI fights (I know!) . I wasn't even sure I was contributing, everything was dying so fast. Combo's are easier to pull off solo, which seems to go against their function. Honestly, soloing leves was way more productive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truce

Lux, I agree with you.

The only party I ever joined occured during my grind through 49. As you said, it was a total zerg-fest. Didn't feel nearly as structered as the old FFXI fights (I know!) . I wasn't even sure I was contributing, everything was dying so fast. Combo's are easier to pull off solo, which seems to go against their function. Honestly, soloing leves was way more productive.

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Don't you worry.. by the looks of things were getting XI all over again.. because Quite a few people are literally asking for it :P.

That's just me though :P.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Don't you worry.. by the looks of things were getting XI all over again.. because Quite a few people are literally asking for it :P.

That's just me though :P.

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Yeah... I've been getting that vibe. It's a shame, really, because I like XIV better than XI- subpar party system and all. I don't want a copy/paste battle system, but some structure would be much appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truce

Yeah... I've been getting that vibe. It's a shame, really, because I like XIV better than XI- subpar party system and all. I don't want a copy/paste battle system, but some structure would be much appreciated.

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Well, as long as the story,content and Areas are different from XI.. all other stuff ( aka: Battle system, Economy etc)... I could care less if they took some systems from wow to FFXIV.. because what makes any game a game is:

-Story
-Content
-Areas that you are in

As long as I have those 3 everything else that comes in FFXIV as long as the right intention is there, I could care less.. Most Systems are "optional" to use anyhow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truce

Yeah... I've been getting that vibe. It's a shame, really, because I like XIV better than XI- subpar party system and all. I don't want a copy/paste battle system, but some structure would be much appreciated.

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All you'd really have to do is tweak enemy AI. Give them some intelligence, some formation, and strengthen them more so they are not so easily face-rolled. They are kinda mindless right now, and weak on top of that, so thats what makes it seem so zergish.

Enemy AI in XI was a tad different in that they were strong enough that killing one required a lot of effort. A couple thundaras were not gonna kill anything, or even close to it.

OP posted the reason why XIV is so much better now than it was at launch.

Didn't really understand why there's still some debate of how you guys play the games.

Simply put: just enjoy it anyway u can and don't try to force too much of your habit to others.

For example, recently I do enjoy pt grinding @ lvl 10+. It all depends on a bit knowledge of the place to hit and knowing how to play your class. :D
Kinda wish there were more of this grind pt thingie, cause ppl do rarely want to grind below 30. ;D
In the other hands, doing leves kinda important since it also attributes to leve achievements albeit slower lvling. :p

I find PTing really boring, the mobs die too fast and if you have a couple BLM and your a Melee you're pretty much useless.

I went into a 40-45 PT on wolfs, we had 3 blm, they'd nuke them so fast I got off maybe 2-3 hits, was so boring, i couldnt do anything, i had to rely on my TP Gen move because hitting was hardly worth it, and my AOE did about 100 dmg to each mob, where as the blm were popping off 500-600 each, so my class was so boring.

I feel that PTing is quite broken with all my experiences from 30+, its just group mobs, aoe them all. I'd rather just PL than do that because, hey its the same! but more EXP/faster...

I thought we was going to get longer more worthwhile fights, not this grind fest.

That is my experience in exping XD

umm....

mages had their own problems too: MP management.
So yeah, we would probably rule in early pt-ing, but we might struggle with mp just to catch up with others. And most of the times, we could feel pretty useless for having more waiting times than DoW classes. ;D

Plus, I just thought of this recently: how hardcore are u guys?
Since I'm also have real life duties like work and stuff (plus, I'm renovating my house right now), I still find the experience within the level of satisfactory. Of course if some of u are too hardcore and had less real life duties to worry about, then this could be problems with u guys if u want more active roles. No offense tho. :)

Kinda a classic tale nowadays. ;D

Plus, I also had share of broken pt-ing myself. So it's not probably anyone's fault, they/we might just haven't got the hang of it yet. It is a learning process. Once we got the hang of it, grind pt can be enjoyable. You just need to be more patience with this kind of problems. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

umm....

mages had their own problems too: MP management.
So yeah, we would probably rule in early pt-ing, but we might struggle with mp just to catch up with others. And most of the times, we could feel pretty useless for having more waiting times than DoW classes. ;D

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Nah MP management doesnt exist really in EXP Pt's, least not what I seen, with just a 1-2 AOE's and the regen from being hit + standing still you make about half back, by the time your anywhere near low, just hit convert, and ur ready to rock, by the time your low again your convert will be up again.

Taking my blm from 40-50 in PT i never ever ran out of MP, would always have bucket loads. Felt sorry for the whm he struggled a bit haha, but then he just kept doing stoneskin at start and we'd never get hit so it was ok XD plus a decent puller,

yeah... I know we can convert. But there are times when we could get over our heads and pretty much draining mp fast even using it. lol

I do enjoy partying more then anything even if it is broken atm. My problem is I spent the past couple of days seeking and trying to get a party on my 16 thm, 19 mrd and 20 gla all while reading this thread and being unable to post because of the forums login thingy with inactive accounts(just got back in town).

I have recieved 0 xp and spent more then 6 hours each day standing in uldah, shouting, search flagged, searching for pre-formed groups and sending tells to ppl in my level range. I have not gotten one party or even one person to join me. At this rate my only option is to quit out of frustration or exchange PL with someone else auntil I get high enough to group (30+).

3 days, over 18 hours, 0 exp, tons of frustration.

I did have a few great parties like the OP but they are so rare they need to be coveted like this. Most of my exp parties, we pick a camp, goto camp, /zombiemode on and kill until we need to switch camp or someone has to leave. a few "congratulations!" for each ding and more brainless slaughtering. When I PL'd or got PL'd we actually conversed, talked about everything under the stars, got to know each other and bonded a little.

I support PL until SE puts forward a more engaging and entertaining leveling experience.

http://i.minus.com/ibsDr7GxHfHJ8X.png
Welcome to the club yo.

I understand how frustrating and downright depressing it can be trying to find a group pre-30. Even after that alls we can look forward is a pretty short ride from there to cap. Not much deviation in available mob clusters so you get a healthy over dose of Ants, Raptors, and Wolves.

That is why we need to stop going about this half foot in half foot out and up the bar a little. In FFXI when you finally made it to 10 after soloing in suburbs of your home city everyone had to make the great pilgrimage to the Dunes. That was a memoric journey in and of itself and even once you arrived at white bloom eye ruiner vacation beach you still had to contend with getting EXP.

Nasty nasty link mobs. Gobbies who are just handing out AoE bombs like candy on everythingmustexplode Halloween. Finding available members in range. Basicallt being group with a bunch of people who have no idea how to do their jobs correctly.

Not going to lie it was a big hurdle. Yet I feel it was necessary. It shook new players out of the solo play mind set and got them thinking about how they skills and ablilties could make the PT function better. Once from there the freshly sunburnt noobies had graduated into slightly less suckery noobies, but at least they are making progress. And progress is good for building a sense of self worth in time expended on leveling.


We need to slow down the leveling process. Really make players feel the weight of their EXP and how it is going to flow. Instill the notion that leveling is not going to be fast but it can be progressive. Let them earn their levels. Entice them with new WS they finally get to use and spells that will make them even better at their vocation! This will give players more job identity. Allow them to take pride in their choice and the effort they put in to level it.


As you make the game world harder the players will rise to the occasion. If you can PL to the finish. Or even straight grind it in a few days. You take away the opposition which binds us together. I've noticed people are much less willing to lend a hand in this game. There are still people willing to assist total strangers but there is a very noticeable trend of, "Me first, you maybe." (If at all) I blame this on the Devs soft balling the dangers and obstacles that should stand in our way. One may think that if everything is easier and people get stuff done faster they'll have more time to help others. Right?

Nu uh

I loved helping people in FFXI. It gave me great joy to escort a new players past the aggro mobs on their first passage to the dunes. Help them into the Mines to farm the items for their sub job. Teach them how to attain their Chocobo License. I jumped at the chance to assist others because I *knew* how hard it would be alone. By that I mean damn near impossible. You'll hear ex-FFXI players tell you about the community of the game. How it was unlike anything you'd find in other MMOs. That was a product of NEEDING each other! I mean really really needing a full PT to get much of anything accomplished. It may have been perceived as a hassle from an outsider's viewpoint but we loved it. I feel many of you would as well after the shell shock wore off.

Imagine a FFXIV where people were always willing to PT up for much wanted EXP. Where you had dozens of leveling locations as you grew higher and had to traverse across the entire world in your quest for power. Where each hour you put in actually mattered and it was a show of strength and resourcefulness when you capped.


I in no way want to alienate players from the game by forcing them to PT if they hate the concept, yet they shouldn't be able to keep pace with a bulk of the playbase who do. We have leves for solo EXP. I hope we soon get a solo-job which will give them the option to PT by themselves if they so choose or prefer. The Hamlet defense event will no doubt net some note worthy EXP which seem to amount to larger Behest session.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is this.

Leveling up is suppose to be a major part of the Final Fantasy Experience. It is critical that we cultivate this venue of the game before End Game. While I agree the leveling process right now is very badly implemented and I got a ton more enjoyement out of FFXI grinding. For the simple fact it actually felt like I was accomplishing something and becoming better at my job. There is still much to be learned and gained from partying these levels by the sweat of your own brow. It is paramount that we don't allow ourselves to become complacent with the idea of just PLing to the finish before the REAL game begins. It is cutting out so many potential encounters with friends and LS members alike that at the end of the day we are going to sit back and think to ourselves. "Where is all the comradely? Where is that feeling of being a part of a greater whole? Where are those awesome memories I want to cherish?"


I found just a few in that great grind back there. I hope I get a chance to form so new ones.

Question is, with the current trend of lack luster sense of challenge, will you?


Also tails.

Don't u worry. I still do. Still had some classes I can play out yet. :D

Holy crap that was a long read and I partially skipped over a chunk here and there. I don't PL all the way only up until I can get a party instead of wasting $9.99 spending 30 days hoping for the once in a lifetime sub 30 party to be formed low enough or for people around my level to join up to level my classes and for it to also happen atleast 2 more times to get my other ones out of the "gutter" I have been sitting in for the past few days waiting and watching, asking and almost begging for people to party with me.

I can only be hopeful that SE fixes this with 2.0 because I will be making 2 more characters to experience the story of the other 2 city-states and GCs with the way billing is going to be. Those 2 will need to reach cap and a brand new leveling experience devoid of PL and filled with adventure, would make this game heaven for me.

I almot would have bought the "its too hard to level solo" crap that people spew, or the stuff about "i have a rl so i don't have time" but with what they did to leves... i just say puh-lease. its not hard to get 2 levels/hr solo. People still whine "that takes soooo long!" "solo is so slow!" it isn't.

I'm always impressed at how civil some folks can remain because i'm so over this lazy, entitlement attitude that it makes me want to vomit and that is spilling out more and more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

.....

I found just a few in that great grind back there. I hope I get a chance to form so new ones.

Question is, with the current trend of lack luster sense of challenge, will you?


Also tails.

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Very well said. :) I enjoy any party I have honestly. (Any without a PL I mean - I don't join those, but I won't get into my long list of why I hate PLing lol.) I even enjoy the bad parties where someone is being a jerk, or parties where everyone dies over and over again. Get a good laugh out of it. I don't like to take things too seriously - I like to relax and have fun. When I join a party rather than soloing, it's for the experience, meeting new people, having fun chatting about random things. Sometimes people do really bizarre things and crack up the whole group, and it just makes everyone's day. I love when we get a comic in the group.

- I do miss the feeling of learning your job as you grow that I got from XI.
- I wish battles lasted just a little longer. Sometimes Most of the time it's hard to get a single hit in before the monster dies, with everyone taking whacks at it. Feels like I may as well not even be there/not even do anything. lol
- I miss the sense of accomplishment. Levels fly by so fast that they really mean nothing in XIV.
- I miss the sense of danger that XI had, where even in just a leveling party people had to watch their surroundings, be careful of stray monsters like goblins or elementals that might appear "out of nowhere" and come pick on us. That could be exciting.
- I miss a wide variety of leveling zones like XI had. Scenery was always changing. (I have a feeling 2.0 will help with this though.)

That all could use some work. But in all I'd say things are looking up in this game. I'm excited for what is to come.

Edit: Oh, yes, and tails. lol ;3

I think people are missing one of the major points Lux was making and are just focusing on the language used. Sure its great the OP had a fun time, to bad this is far and few in between and the OP loves to blame PLing for it. Sad truth is it was far and few in between before PL was even possible.

Flame if you want I could care less.

I've only been in one PL party in my short-lived FFXIV career (25-30ish), and I had more fun there than I've had in any exp party I've been in since. You can't blame PL'ing for everything. It's really just a by-product of the miserable party experience. :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I understand how frustrating and downright depressing it can be trying to find a group pre-30. Even after that alls we can look forward is a pretty short ride from there to cap. Not much deviation in available mob clusters so you get a healthy over dose of Ants, Raptors, and Wolves.

That is why we need to stop going about this half foot in half foot out and up the bar a little. In FFXI when you finally made it to 10 after soloing in suburbs of your home city everyone had to make the great pilgrimage to the Dunes. That was a memoric journey in and of itself and even once you arrived at white bloom eye ruiner vacation beach you still had to contend with getting EXP.

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Now I played some FFXI back in the day and went through that same experience you just described. I don't recall anything memoric about it, nor would I call it a pilgrimage. Frustrating is a bit of a better word. I did it all solo up until the dunes so my experience wasn't exactly the best. And even then it wasn't exactly great. Just like in FFXIV, there are a lot of shitty parties out there that make you not want to party ever again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Not going to lie it was a big hurdle. Yet I feel it was necessary. It shook new players out of the solo play mind set and got them thinking about how they skills and ablilties could make the PT function better. Once from there the freshly sunburnt noobies had graduated into slightly less suckery noobies, but at least they are making progress. And progress is good for building a sense of self worth in time expended on leveling.

---

Again, good players will do what you described. Good players will look for ways to be more useful in a group setting. Good players will build up their skills. Bad players will do none of that, regardless of how they level. Likewise, good players will do all of those things regardless of how they level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

We need to slow down the leveling process. Really make players feel the weight of their EXP and how it is going to flow. Instill the notion that leveling is not going to be fast but it can be progressive. Let them earn their levels. Entice them with new WS they finally get to use and spells that will make them even better at their vocation! This will give players more job identity. Allow them to take pride in their choice and the effort they put in to level it.

---

Though my leveling was quick I still felt a sense of achievement upon completion. I still looked forward to every new WS I got. I thought of how those would make me better. That's because I'm a good player. Bad players will do none of this.

I will, however, agree that leveling could be slowed down a bit. Not to FFXI levels but I think maybe 3 weeks to a month from 1-50 is reasonable enough. 45-50 shouldn't take hours. The 1-25 range is so quick that we don't get to make use of Shposhae or any of the lower level content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

As you make the game world harder the players will rise to the occasion. If you can PL to the finish. Or even straight grind it in a few days. You take away the opposition which binds us together. I've noticed people are much less willing to lend a hand in this game. There are still people willing to assist total strangers but there is a very noticeable trend of, "Me first, you maybe." (If at all) I blame this on the Devs soft balling the dangers and obstacles that should stand in our way. One may think that if everything is easier and people get stuff done faster they'll have more time to help others. Right?

Nu uh

---

Again, good players vs bad players. If you make a game challenging, good players will rise to the occasion. However good players will also better themselves without the need of a specific challenge. Good players will take the time to help others if they need it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I loved helping people in FFXI. It gave me great joy to escort a new players past the aggro mobs on their first passage to the dunes. Help them into the Mines to farm the items for their sub job. Teach them how to attain their Chocobo License. I jumped at the chance to assist others because I *knew* how hard it would be alone. By that I mean damn near impossible. You'll hear ex-FFXI players tell you about the community of the game. How it was unlike anything you'd find in other MMOs. That was a product of NEEDING each other! I mean really really needing a full PT to get much of anything accomplished. It may have been perceived as a hassle from an outsider's viewpoint but we loved it. I feel many of you would as well after the shell shock wore off.

---

I've had people say the exact thing about the community (in-game) of FFXIV. We've had people join up in our LS who have told me that they love how the sense of community is coming along in the game and how it's still so much better than most MMOs.

I would have to disagree with 100% NEEDING a group to get anything done though. It should be an efficient way to get things done, a better way to get things done and should really only be 100% required in end-game. This game was designed for a more casual audience so things will keep going in that direction. An emphasis on both solo and party content being viable means of making at least some progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaaku

Imagine a FFXIV where people were always willing to PT up for much wanted EXP. Where you had dozens of leveling locations as you grew higher and had to traverse across the entire world in your quest for power. Where each hour you put in actually mattered and it was a show of strength and resourcefulness when you capped.

---

This is more of an issue with lack of content due to the game being rebuilt from the ground up. We'll have more things to do in time, just need to be patient. Also people currently ARE willing to PT up a lot of the time for XP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I suppose the point I am trying to make is this.

Leveling up is suppose to be a major part of the Final Fantasy Experience. It is critical that we cultivate this venue of the game before End Game. While I agree the leveling process right now is very badly implemented and I got a ton more enjoyement out of FFXI grinding. For the simple fact it actually felt like I was accomplishing something and becoming better at my job. There is still much to be learned and gained from partying these levels by the sweat of your own brow. It is paramount that we don't allow ourselves to become complacent with the idea of just PLing to the finish before the REAL game begins. It is cutting out so many potential encounters with friends and LS members alike that at the end of the day we are going to sit back and think to ourselves. "Where is all the comradely? Where is that feeling of being a part of a greater whole? Where are those awesome memories I want to cherish?"

---

PL doesn't make you a bad player. Leveling "legit" doesn't make you a good player. Personal motivation to be better at your role makes you a good player. I've leveled some classes legit, I play them well. I've had some classes PL'd to 50 and I can play them well. There are many people who I've seen level "legit" who have absolutely no idea what they're doing at all.

Leveling is part of the journey but it shouldn't be the major experience of the game. Interesting mid-game content would be one of those things. Honestly though, I've had more enjoyable experiences and fond memories solely from end-game than I do from any mid-game content or leveling. In fact almost all of my bad experiences with FFXIV are from leveling groups. I share memories with people that I like playing with, pretty much my LS. Didn't have to level "legit" to get them. I feel we have a good amount of comradery going in our group and some of us PL'd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I found just a few in that great grind back there. I hope I get a chance to form so new ones.

Question is, with the current trend of lack luster sense of challenge, will you?

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I'm glad you had a good experience, however you must understand that you are in the vast, vast minority there. I think you're the first person I've ever heard tell a story about enjoying a long leveling party. Pretty much everything I've ever heard, along with my own experiences, has been negative. Part of the reason I don't do random groups or anything really outside of the LS is because of this.

The golden rule of the Final Fantasy XIV Forums:

It matters not how good or lighthearted a thread is, some ass is going to come and ruin the experience and start a flame war.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

The golden rule of the Final Fantasy XIV Forums:

It matters not how good or lighthearted a thread is, some ass is going to come and ruin the experience and start a flame war.

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so called ass did not intend a flame war and so called ass was not the one that continually tried to derail the thread. In fact he tried to stop the flames and turn it into a constructive thread. Could easly change your comment to

"The golden rule of the Final Fantasy XIV Forums:

It matters not how good or lighthearted a thread is, some ass is going to come and ruin the experience and start a flame war and then some dumb ass is only gonna read the first couple of posts and base his opinion of the previous ass on that only."

I saw no "flame war" until people started bashing/flaming Lux for catching onto Zaaku's hidden(not realy) anti-PL pitch. Sure he may have came on abit aggressive but the intent was a "I see what you did thar, but here is my POV" kinda thing. I'm not saying he couldn't have reworded it alot better but the intent was not to derail or debunk the OP but shed his POV on the whole subject of PL vs Anti-PL.

People seem to overreact alot on these forums. >.>

Also: Tails!

Guys, i think the REAL point, besides the fact that non-pl's can be fun and just as rewarding, if you want is THIS

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I just wish there was better content inbetween 1 and 50.

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Lux is absolutely correct in this at least, what is there to do at lower levels besides leves and toto-rak? not a damn thing, hell even toto-rak is just a GC seal farm as it stands now. like say for instance DH was a lvl 30 instance as well at toto-rak, or if they would have just made more lower level interest in general we'd not have this discussion/argument now. like for instance i'm gridanian in game right...let's see...tam-tara deepcroft and the mun-tuy cellars could have been perfect places besides toto-rak to put 60 minute low level dungeons if toto-rak is min 25, you could have made tam-tara say like min 15ish maybe and mun-tuy maybe 35? it would have gave people plenty of reason to go besides the moogles. (which at this point is the only reason some people even bother with the maze that is the shroud)

In thanalan as well they could done this with copperbell and nanawa, in fact what real reason was there to go to either silver or golden bazzar until they put an AF quest or the achievement unlock? They could have made those opening points to low level instances, put some type of starting quest in ul'dah.."there's a secret cave entrance in the golden bazzar...investigate secrets of an old underground ruin..." yadda yadda. i could go on but my point is..there is even on this STILL copy-pasted map, plenty of places they could have put instanced spots...even coerthas is just about empty except for natalan, DH and AV no?

the fact is, they put everything in for 45+ ...then when people pissed and moaned about the grind instead of making the grind more enjoyable by adding more low level things to do/farm/pt on, they behaved like a good drug dealer and just threw the pl crack and had half the game population smoking at the pipe ever since. i do not pl, i have said that before, i don't fault those who do...i do not attack those who do...i see no need, i just go on a person by person basis for the pt's i'm in, i have had good and bad but my point is...THE GAME implemented it...yoshi-p pretty much gave his seal of approval, campaigning on the abolishment or boycott of it is futile when the people in charge will not put any low level treats for the players.

I understand Zaaku all too well, and i do applaud his efforts, but i am also a realist. the reality, is they are pushing all the chips to the center of the table for 2.0, and little else is going to make a difference or matter until then, even the stuff they DID promise has gotten pused back a bit, yes they make up for it by offering that legacy and welcome back campaign, but the fact is, leveling isn't high on the list. so, do like i do...level at a pace you want, level your favorite classes first, and if a person wants to rush by and pl, tip your hat, say good day and just walk the path you want, not the one others try to make you walk.

Agreed Edgecrusher. The bigger issue is that there's nothing to do in the mid-level range, especially 30-45. 30-45 has to be the most content barren range of the entire game. You can grind or do leves, that's about it. We will eventually get more content for the barren ranges, until then it remains an issue. We basically blow through 1-25, do Toto-rak and then there's nothing until 45.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Agreed Edgecrusher. The bigger issue is that there's nothing to do in the mid-level range, especially 30-45. 30-45 has to be the most content barren range of the entire game. You can grind or do leves, that's about it. We will eventually get more content for the barren ranges, until then it remains an issue. We basically blow through 1-25, do Toto-rak and then there's nothing until 45.

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That and low level Ifrit fight does not even give rewards for that range, it was built just as a pre-req for the hard mode and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'm glad you had a good experience, however you must understand that you are in the vast, vast minority there. I think you're the first person I've ever heard tell a story about enjoying a long leveling party.

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You've made some decent points and there will always be 'bad' players who cap out regardless and I'm sure there are people who've learned how to do a good job even after being PLing 90% of the way. Those are what I like to call exceptions. Just by virtue of basic logic if you make the process in which one must undertake more challenging, take longer, and require them to actively participate. You will train people to become and more adept at the task. Those who are not suited for it will drop out or be denied PT's since they will gain a reputation for not being able to handle their responsibilities. Not to mention it will not be fun for them if they repeatedly fail to accomplish what their role is designed for. Someone can fake it for a few days of leveling but hardly 4-5 weeks.

What you say is may be true in the general sense but making the standards more adversarial will thin out those radical numbers and give us a more stable population of people you can rely on.


Also while I respect your opinions I must make one small correction to your post. It is in fact the poeple who want faster, easier, less difficult leveling process that are in the minority. As per the latest Forum poll. Most people here enjoy having a hard time :D