Would a raffle system be that hard?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

O.o You are going from competeing with a few people at a placard. To going against everyone on your world who does not have a house...tell me how your odds are now better. In a raffle the more people enter the lower your chances of winning are.

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Exactly. Thank you.

Raffles are one of the most common 'fixes' for housing I see pitched next to a rent or tax of some kind. These are both solutions that seem really rosey on paper but people will absolutely end up loathing if implemented. If you'd like a workable solution to housing may I suggest upgradable appartments, indoor windowboxes for crossbreeding, and a workshop attached to every GC for homeless FCs? I mean if they can make the squadron door unique putting up a door that goes to your fc workshop is doable in theory.

The point is, people used to be in favor of the random timer too. Raffles will be it's arguably worse replacement. Instead of making the system even harder for a first time buyer, ease the pain by giving people more options. If appartments did gardening and had more space to furnish, they'd be more attractive as at least a waiting option while folks held out for a house.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

O.o You are going from competeing with a few people at a placard. To going against everyone on your world who does not have a house...tell me how your odds are now better. In a raffle the more people enter the lower your chances of winning are.

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Ok look. Suppose we have 1000 people, 100 of which are willing to camp a placard. The odds are like so:
100 people have 1% chance of getting a house
900 people have 0% chance of getting a house

Now we move to a raffle system and everyone can participate. Now the odds are:
1000 people have 0.1% chance of getting a house

For 100 people the odds became worse, but for 900 people they became better because they had no chance at all before.

Why do most people look at this only from the perspective of the "privileged" few who can spend their days repetitively clicking the placard or use keyboard macro programs (which are against the ToS)?

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Originally Posted by tdb

Ok look. Suppose we have 1000 people, 100 of which are willing to camp a placard. The odds are like so:
100 people have 1% chance of getting a house
900 people have 0% chance of getting a house

Now we move to a raffle system and everyone can participate. Now the odds are:
1000 people have 0.1% chance of getting a house

For 100 people the odds became worse, but for 900 people they became better because they had no chance at all before.

Why do most people look at this only from the perspective of the "privileged" few who can spend their days repetitively clicking the placard or use keyboard macro programs (which are against the ToS)?

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Now add 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 thousand onto that number, possibly more. On each server. Sure, the odds still dictate that it could happen, but the chances are so small that it really doesn't matter. That doesn't make it better than the current system. It doesn't improve anything at all. What we need are actual fixes, not impossible, hopeless dreams. This isn't about the "privileged few". This is about everyone.

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Originally Posted by tdb

Ok look. Suppose we have 1000 people, 100 of which are willing to camp a placard. The odds are like so:
100 people have 1% chance of getting a house
900 people have 0% chance of getting a house

[...]

For 100 people the odds became worse, but for 900 people they became better because they had no chance at all before.

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Those 900 people didn't have "no chance," they had the same chance to participate as everyone else and they chose not to.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Those 900 people didn't have "no chance," they had the same chance to participate as everyone else and they chose not to.

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And if those 900 chose to participate, guess what? Everyone would have 0.1% chance, exactly the same as with raffle. You can't seriously think it's a good idea to make a system so appalling that most people don't even want to participate.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This is about everyone.

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Yet everyone having an equal chance doesn't seem to be to your liking. What gives? Does there need to be some kind of bait, a promise of an easier life? "If only I was unscrupulous enough to break the ToS by botting, I too could get a house"?

Yes, instanced housing would be a far better solution. Yet it has proven unattainable so far. And it too has its detractors; some people have cried about ghost wards and wanting to keep the neighborhoods.

Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the latest and most complete description of what I think a raffle system could be like: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5483002

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Originally Posted by tdb

Yet everyone having an equal chance doesn't seem to be to your liking. What gives? Does there need to be some kind of bait, a promise of an easier life? "If only I was unscrupulous enough to break the ToS by botting, I too could get a house"?

Yes, instanced housing would be a far better solution. Yet it has proven unattainable so far. And it too has its detractors; some people have cried about ghost wards and wanting to keep the neighborhoods.

Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the latest and most complete description of what I think a raffle system could be like: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5483002

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Big problem with your idea in that post. You trying to crash the instance servers? Asking people to reamain near the plot for 10 minutes...think about how many players will be showing up all at once!!! FC will also have a bigger advantage then they do now over personal house seekers.

You think fc's are just going to have one member enter the raffle? Pfft nope their going to ask every eligible member to enter. FC's have members waiting at placards but its rare the entire FC is waiting. Lets not even get into the restritctions you will need to help curve abuse.

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Originally Posted by tdb

And if those 900 chose to participate, guess what? Everyone would have 0.1% chance, exactly the same as with raffle. You can't seriously think it's a good idea to make a system so appalling that most people don't even want to participate.

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This assumes that the same number of people would be clicking a placard for untold hours as would enter a 10 minute raffle.
This would not be the case.
Like you said, the current system is so appalling people don't wanna participate.

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Originally Posted by tdb

Yet everyone having an equal chance doesn't seem to be to your liking. What gives? Does there need to be some kind of bait, a promise of an easier life? "If only I was unscrupulous enough to break the ToS by botting, I too could get a house"?

Yes, instanced housing would be a far better solution. Yet it has proven unattainable so far. And it too has its detractors; some people have cried about ghost wards and wanting to keep the neighborhoods.

Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the latest and most complete description of what I think a raffle system could be like: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5483002

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I want everyone to have an equal chance, but a raffle is not the solution. It doesn't fix the underlying problem with housing, which is little supply and insane demand. What don't you understand here? I honestly don't know how else I can put it so that you can begin to fathom this "mystery". You seemingly can't see past your own vision to see that others have differing opinions, and that there might be a flaw or 2 in your desired system. I'm not saying mine is perfect, but my point of view is something that I have thought through thoroughly, and what really matters to me is having an actual solution to the garbage housing system we have. I don't want housing to be shackled by luck and RNG. I want it to be set free. I want solutions, not band aid fixes that don't really do much anyway. EVERYONE should want this. If you can't understand that...it is best that we both stop engaging one another any further on this topic, because we will never see eye to eye. I sure as heck won't budge, and apparently neither will you. Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Big problem with your idea in that post. You trying to crash the instance servers? Asking people to reamain near the plot for 10 minutes...think about how many players will be showing up all at once!!!

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Yeah, I acknowledged that issue in my post, in case you didn't notice. I'm hoping that if multiple raffles go off at the same time across multiple wards, the prospective buyers will spread out enough that any one zone won't become overloaded.

Or it could be formulated so that you can take a raffle ticket from the placard at any time. You can only carry one ticket at a time, so if you decide to change which plot you're going for you'll have to discard the previous one. Inn rooms get some kind of gadget with which you can validate your ticket when the raffle time comes. This way there won't be any congestion, although the social aspect of being at the placard is lost.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

FC will also have a bigger advantage then they do now over personal house seekers. You think fc's are just going to have one member enter the raffle? Pfft nope their going to ask every eligible member to enter. FC's have members waiting at placards but its rare the entire FC is waiting. Lets not even get into the restritctions you will need to help curve abuse.

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If anything, it would be way easier to filter FCs with a raffle system. The server could internally go through all registered players and remove all but one from the same FC.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

This assumes that the same number of people would be clicking a placard for untold hours as would enter a 10 minute raffle.
This would not be the case.
Like you said, the current system is so appalling people don't wanna participate.

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Yeah, so the people who don't click the placard won't get a house. With a raffle system they'd get a chance, even if only a small one. How is this worse for them?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I want everyone to have an equal chance, but a raffle is not the solution. It doesn't fix the underlying problem with housing, which is little supply and insane demand. What don't you understand here? I honestly don't know how else I can put it so that you can begin to fathom this "mystery". You seemingly can't see past your own vision to see that others have differing opinions, and that there might be a flaw or 2 in your desired system. I'm not saying mine is perfect, but my point of view is something that I have thought through thoroughly, and what really matters to me is having an actual solution to the garbage housing system we have. I don't want housing to be shackled by luck and RNG. I want it to be set free. I want solutions, not band aid fixes that don't really do much anyway. EVERYONE should want this. If you can't understand that...it is best that we both stop engaging one another any further on this topic, because we will never see eye to eye. I sure as heck won't budge, and apparently neither will you. Have a nice day.

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Didn't I just say that instanced housing would be a far better solution? Or did you have something else in mind?

However, it seems instanced housing is pretty hard to implement, be it due to server capacity, spaghetti code, or SE's vision of housing neighborhoods. So I think while we wait for that we should at least get something better than the horrible timer system. If you want to chase your own perfect solution I can't force you to do otherwise. But it would be nice if you didn't bash my proposition without at least understanding the conditions it's based on (i.e. no instanced housing in the foreseeable future).

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Originally Posted by tdb

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Yeah, so the people who don't click the placard won't get a house. With a raffle system they'd get a chance, even if only a small one. How is this worse for them?

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"They'd get a chance?"
They didn't have one before?
For people like this:

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Originally Posted by tdb

And what about all the people who want a house but don't want to camp the placard for hours?

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They made their choice not to participate.
They have a chance and don't take it... so what about them?
But the conversation isn't about that. It isn't about the people who are sitting out and not trying to get a house.
Its wether a raffle system would give you a better shot at a house, and it would not because the people that do participate would all face a steep rise in competition.

If you are trying to get a house it will be harder to get a house with a raffle system.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Its wether a raffle system would give you a better shot at a house, and it would not because the people that do participate would all face a steep rise in competition.

If you are trying to get a house it will be harder to get a house with a raffle system.

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This is true, for those currently willing to participate. Is it your opinion then that it's fine to have a system so horrible that most people choose to not participate (on the assumption that instanced housing can't or won't be implemented)?

Edit: May I suggest augmenting the raffle system with one of the following restrictions:
You must be among the richest 5% of players on the server to participate. If you fall below the 10% mark for more than a month you're evicted (the limits can by dynamically adjusted based on supply and demand).
You must place high enough in your server's GC rankings in order to qualify. Again the limit of what is high enough could be adjusted dynamically. An additional restriction could be that you have to make your contributions to the GC of the area you're seeking to buy the plot from (with skybuilders substituted for Ishgard; I'm unsure what to do with Kugane though).
You must complete the current savage raid tier to participate. If you don't complete the tier before the next one is released you're evicted. I don't see a lot of opportunity for dynamic adjustment here, but it would provide an additional incentive for world first clears in order to pick the best houses.

All of these would limit participation with similar or greater strength as placard clicking, but they're tied to in-game activities players actually enjoy doing rather than an inane timesink. If none of these options strikes your fancy I can invent more.

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Originally Posted by tdb

Is it your opinion then that it's fine to have a system so horrible that most people choose to not participate (on the assumption that instanced housing can't or won't be implemented)?

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No, the placard system is bad.
A raffle system would be worse.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

No, the placard system is bad.
A raffle system would be worse.

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So what would you put in as the requirement for getting a house? Would one of my suggestions above work (I guess you replied while I was editing the message) or do you have other ideas?

Alright placard sucks and raffle is not any better. So put a wait list for each ward in, each ward gets its own wait list.
There you go no placard clicking and you are garaunteed a house once the list reaches you and has one open. It still follows first come first serve as those who get there first get higher positions on the list. This is the second best solution to Instance housing, with the current solution being third best. I have banged my head on this problem for a long time just like so many others, Outside of instance housing its the only other way to ensure players get a house at some point. Still relies on the demo timer taking houses but its better then the current state with so many being unhappy.


Rules:
-New wards will not have a wait list until they are full. If you buy a house in a new ward you are removed from any wait list you are on.
-When you go to add yourself to a wait list, you will choose Free company or personal setting the house to your choice then and there. When your turn comes up you have 24hrs to make the purchase or it moves down the list.
-You can only be on one wait list for Personal and one wait list for FC at any given time.(per World)
-Free companies will function as normal. If someone has the money and the permission to purchase. And their FC comes up next on the list that person can make the purchase for the FC.
-Free companies being on a wait list will have no effect on its members being able to add themselves to a wait list for a personal.
- Wait list positions cannot be transferred to another wait list. You can only add or remove yourself from wait lists.

Failed to address relocations in this. But to put it simply for a wait list to not be a waste of time Relocations would have to be restricted to new wards. Lastly I was one of the many people who suggested the timer idea, this current idea never occured to me at the time. But I feel its a far better one then the timer, SE may never give us instance housing so I am fully onboard with anything that works better then what we got now.

Multiple raffles across wards wont work. Demo timers vary you got no to ensure that other wards have homes up.

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Originally Posted by tdb

So what would you put in as the requirement for getting a house? Would one of my suggestions above work (I guess you replied while I was editing the message) or do you have other ideas?

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Lol sorry, hit my daily post cap and had to wait to reply.

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Originally Posted by tdb

You must be among the richest 5% of players on the server to participate. If you fall below the 10% mark for more than a month you're evicted (the limits can by dynamically adjusted based on supply and demand).

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I mean... this would result in me losing my house I'm automatically not for this one lol.

But otherwise I have a few objections.

-- There are players with max gil. Outside of the fact that that’s such an incredible pile of wealth anyone who picked up the game even last expac is probably forever locked out of getting a house. The game has too many wealthy players with nothing to spend their money on that have too big of a head start. And if you put your nose to the grindstone and try and get to max gil too… it wouldn’t change anything because you can’t become richer than max gil.


-- If anything this will encourage RMT.


-- Losing your house due to inactivity, because you’re not using it is a far better method than losing your house because you have 9 trillion gil but someone else just got 9 trillion and 1.

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Originally Posted by tdb

You must place high enough in your server's GC rankings in order to qualify. Again the limit of what is high enough could be adjusted dynamically. An additional restriction could be that you have to make your contributions to the GC of the area you're seeking to buy the plot from (with skybuilders substituted for Ishgard; I'm unsure what to do with Kugane though).

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Do the servers track our GCs rankings against each other?

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Originally Posted by tdb

You must complete the current savage raid tier to participate. If you don't complete the tier before the next one is released you're evicted. I don't see a lot of opportunity for dynamic adjustment here, but it would provide an additional incentive for world first clears in order to pick the best houses.

All of these would limit participation with similar or greater strength as placard clicking, but they're tied to in-game activities players actually enjoy doing rather than an inane timesink. If none of these options strikes your fancy I can invent more.

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Tied to in game activities?
Maybe there's something there.
Locking housing behind savage would be going way too far.



I’m also not sure that I’m jiving with the core philosophy here. I don't think you need a requirement to get a house. Housing should be available to everyone, so instead of restricting players from getting a house I think they should just focus on making housing more available. The majority of the problems with HOW to get a house will absolutely wither in the face of adequate supply.
I really jive with this take:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It will always remain a problem as long as houses are in limited supply. We can keep coming up with ways to change the purchase system but none of them, outside of solving the supply problem, will fix it. Everything thing has its pros, cons and loopholes to exploit.

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Raffle system is bad for various reasons... RMT bots would massive hog it, and then the plots would be sold as 1 person FC's for real life credits.... and a new problem has popped up.

Add massive upkeeps on houses, that way you gotta actually do something to keep your house, and also for those that DID horde houses for resale, will end being pressed on their own wallet as well, likewise would be a bombshell for those grandfathered players who bought +5 houses.

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Originally Posted by tdb

However, it seems instanced housing is pretty hard to implement, be it due to server capacity, spaghetti code, or SE's vision of housing neighborhoods.

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We know it's not hard to implement. House interiors and apartments are already instanced. The only hard thing would be getting weather to work if they intended to add gardening to instanced housing areas (why we can't intercross inside a house or apartment - weather doesn't exist in them).

Their vision of active neighborhoods was probably the obstacle but I don't think they've even mentioned that since the disaster that was Shirogane's opening. Hopefully they've given up on the idea and moved onto creating a system that serves all the players instead of a lucky few.

We'll know when Ishgard housing gets released, I guess.

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Originally Posted by tdb

So I think while we wait for that we should at least get something better than the horrible timer system.

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It would still take time to design, program, test then implement a new purchase system, especially one that would end up as complicated as a raffle. It's not simple as real life where you walk up to a seller, buy as many tickets as you want, wait for a winning number to be drawn then turn in a ticket if it was the winner. The game would have to have ways of tracking what tickets have been purchased by what character, culling out multiple purchases by the same account, etc.

If Ishgard is not going to be an enhanced version of instanced housing removing the need for a new purchase system, that would likely be the time they would implement one (if they're going to). I don't see it happening "while we wait".

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Originally Posted by tdb

So what would you put in as the requirement for getting a house? Would one of my suggestions above work (I guess you replied while I was editing the message) or do you have other ideas?

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I know it's not me you're asking, but my suggestion is still sack the whole timer, and start the house off at the ARR price of 40 million. Want it right away? Pay the 40, no camping. Want it for 3 million? Come back in 222 hours after 37 devaluations , no camping.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I’m also not sure that I’m jiving with the core philosophy here. I don't think you need a requirement to get a house. Housing should be available to everyone, so instead of restricting players from getting a house I think they should just focus on making housing more available. The majority of the problems with HOW to get a house will absolutely wither in the face of adequate supply.

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How many times do I need to repeat this? I'm making these suggestions on the assumption that housing quantity can't be significantly increased. Maybe I should put it in my every post, bolded, so no one can possibly miss it?

I've said multiple times that I consider instanced or otherwise "infinite" housing supply to be the superior solution. But if housing is going to stay limited, and players don't want to compete against everyone else for houses, then some kind of "qualification" is necessary.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

We know it's not hard to implement. House interiors and apartments are already instanced. The only hard thing would be getting weather to work if they intended to add gardening to instanced housing areas (why we can't intercross inside a house or apartment - weather doesn't exist in them).

Their vision of active neighborhoods was probably the obstacle but I don't think they've even mentioned that since the disaster that was Shirogane's opening. Hopefully they've given up on the idea and moved onto creating a system that serves all the players instead of a lucky few.

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Perhaps I worded myself poorly there. I know it's not technically difficult to implement instanced houses. Other games do it. Private instances already exist in FFXIV too, and I bet they could implement indoor garden patches and chocobo stables by just copying the items and changing their category.

But player housing has existed in this game for what, six years? Seven? And I think the supply issues have existed almost as long. So something is in the way of getting instanced housing. I have no idea what it is, but if there were no obstacles we would have it already.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

We'll know when Ishgard housing gets released, I guess.

If Ishgard is not going to be an enhanced version of instanced housing removing the need for a new purchase system, that would likely be the time they would implement one (if they're going to). I don't see it happening "while we wait".

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The Firmament looks very much like a standard housing ward, with 30 plots and an apartment building. Maybe they will add bigger apartments or something, but I don't really see how the houses would be instanced with this setup.

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Originally Posted by tdb

How many times do I need to repeat this? I'm making these suggestions on the assumption that housing quantity can't be significantly increased. Maybe I should put it in my every post, bolded, so no one can possibly miss it?

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No, I get that.
But I don't think additional restrictions can mitigate or replace the placard in any meaningful way.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

No, I get that.
But I don't think additional restrictions can mitigate or replace the placard in any meaningful way.

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Additional restrictions in form of an UPKEEP, so you have to pay taxes off your house(s) thats the best way, there is no downsides by having a house today, having to pay for the plot per month would be a good one, would additionally add to inactive housing being available to people alongside with Auto Demolition.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Additional restrictions in form of an UPKEEP, so you have to pay taxes off your house(s) thats the best way, there is no downsides by having a house today, having to pay for the plot per month would be a good one, would additionally add to inactive housing being available to people alongside with Auto Demolition.

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And yet it still doesn't address the issue of supply and demand, and is unnecessary otherwise. I really wish you would stop promoting such terrible ideas, because that is all they are. Paying a sub and logging in is more than enough of a price to own a house.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

And yet it still doesn't address the issue of supply and demand, and is unnecessary otherwise. I really wish you would stop promoting such terrible ideas, because that is all they are. Paying a sub and logging in is more than enough of a price to own a house.

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Paying a sub gives you access to the game servers. It's not a guarantee you get to have specific items in the game.

It's not a terrible idea when it would make players stop and think whether or not they really want that house. It's easy to buy and keep something you don't use when you only have to pay once and it's yours forever. If you have to keep paying over and over, you're going to think twice about buying if you're not going to use it.

I know players who do nothing more than step inside their house to reset the demo timer occasionally. Ask they why don't they give up their house? "I might decide to do something with it some day and it doesn't cost me anything to keep it."

What do you think they'd do if it suddenly cost them something to keep it? Most of them would give it up because they don't want to have to keep spending the gil when they aren't using it. That would make more houses available to those who would use them.

No one with a house, even a small house, needs to worry about a recurring fee when 3 minutes of effort a day at their house will yield 700,000 gil a month or more. The fee would never be that high on a small (could be on a medium or large but they can also make 2-3 times that amount for just a few minutes more each day). It's really surprising how many house owners don't bother to take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No one with a house, even a small house, needs to worry about a recurring fee when 3 minutes of effort a day at their house will yield 700,000 gil a month or more.

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Is this through, like, gardening?
Or are you also talking about submersibles and other FC house things?

In short answer to the original question: YES.

Because these gilseller outfits could easily have enough gil to overrun any lottery system and remove legitimate players from the entire player-housing situation at any time they so chose to elect if this kind of a system were inplemented.

Frankly, if the solution I proposed doesn't work, then it's going to be RMT one way or the other, and, at that point, I have two words for you: Mog Station.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Is this through, like, gardening?
Or are you also talking about submersibles and other FC house things?

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Gardening. Actual amount varies by server, of course.

But for Coeurl at least, shards are currently selling for 60-110 gil each. Deluxe Garden Patch has 8 beds for planting. The shard seeds (Firelight, Levinlight, etc) yield 50 each if you're using normal Potting Soil. Using Grade 1 Shroud Topsoil will increase yield by +15, Grade 2 by +25 and Grade 3 (which you can get through tomestone exchange in Idyllshire) by +50 (so 100 total). The seeds take 18 hours to grow so if you're logging in at the same time every day, they'll always be ready for harvest when you log on the next day.

That means you get anywhere from 400 to 800 shards a day. If you've got 400 shards at 60 gil a shard, that's 24,000 gil. Multiply that by 30 and you've got over 700,000 gil in a month.

If you sell them in small lots of 200-400, you can usually get more than the lowest going rate because newer players who need the shards generally can't afford to buy the stacks of 2000-5000 you typically see listed (that's 120k to 300k gil) but could afford to pay for 200 shards at 100 gil each (that's only 20k gil).

I know these amounts are pocket change for some players but for those who feel like they struggle to make gil, it's a solid amount for little effort if they've managed to get a house. It even works to a lesser degree if all the player has is an apartment. You can still have 2 flowerpots that will yield the same 50-100 shards each for 180k or more a month (again depending on your server's shard prices).

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Additional restrictions in form of an UPKEEP, so you have to pay taxes...

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Oh the joy of every RMT in the game. Then you will have people who have RL money just buying GIL for the rent instead of farming.


In short:
- for anyone who doesnt have RL money but have a job he is pretty much f*ed
- for players who have RL money to spend on a game it will change nothing
- the ones with no job and a lot of time (usually kids) they will farm
... and RMT will probably start buying RL houses with the earned money.


So how do you see this system as fair?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

[snip]

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Thank you for the clarification, and for all the helpful info. It's coming at the perfect time because I'm actually about to get into gardening lol

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Originally Posted by Madbunny

Oh the joy of every RMT in the game. Then you will have people who have RL money just buying GIL for the rent instead of farming.


In short:
- for anyone who doesnt have RL money but have a job he is pretty much f*ed
- for players who have RL money to spend on a game it will change nothing
- the ones with no job and a lot of time (usually kids) they will farm
... and RMT will probably start buying RL houses with the earned money.


So how do you see this system as fair?

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Maybe this person (not unlike a number of the North American Square-Enix Community Team, given who they've supported over the years) actually believes RMT is a necessary part of the game and should be embraced and made necessary for elite content.

(Including player and FC housing as "elite content".)

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Originally Posted by Wrestlefire769

RMT is a necessary part of the game

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Thats partially true. All those RMT players pay the subscription and many players believe that is the (main) reason why every company behind a successful online game are reluctant to ban RMT-ers. Well at least not in numbers they should be banned. The only exception that i know was GuildWars (the first one) as it was without monthly subscription and man... numbers of banned people were astonishing.
Back to the subject, RMT have more than enough reason to exist and no need to fuel that reason even more.

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Originally Posted by Madbunny

Thats partially true. All those RMT players pay the subscription and many players believe that is the (main) reason why every company behind a successful online game are reluctant to ban RMT-ers. Well at least not in numbers they should be banned. The only exception that i know was GuildWars (the first one) as it was without monthly subscription and man... numbers of banned people were astonishing.

Back to the subject, RMT have more than enough reason to exist and no need to fuel that reason even more.

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This is where it starts getting a little sticky. It's clear that there is a significant portion (not necessarily in number, but necessarily in CLOUT) of the game community (at least outside of Japan -- and I'd be interested to find out if the JP servers are having the same camping of housing lots the NA and EU servers are having) who is fully embracing of RMT and other cheating mechanisms. At that point, one has to question, especially if you are right in any portion of RMT being a necessary part of the game, the presence of the Special Task Force.

To me, if Square-Enix is unwilling to actually deal with the bot and RMT problem (and this is going to include getting Legal into the countries where these companies work), they then need to assume that the only real way to do that content is to pay for it with real money -- at which point, welcome to all future housing on the Mog Station.

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Originally Posted by Wrestlefire769

This is where it starts getting a little sticky. It's clear that there is a significant portion (not necessarily in number, but necessarily in CLOUT) of the game community (at least outside of Japan -- and I'd be interested to find out if the JP servers are having the same camping of housing lots the NA and EU servers are having) who is fully embracing of RMT and other cheating mechanisms. At that point, one has to question, especially if you are right in any portion of RMT being a necessary part of the game, the presence of the Special Task Force.

To me, if Square-Enix is unwilling to actually deal with the bot and RMT problem (and this is going to include getting Legal into the countries where these companies work), they then need to assume that the only real way to do that content is to pay for it with real money -- at which point, welcome to all future housing on the Mog Station.

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Restrict to 3 clicks per day, per plot, which means would make it harder for bots and autoclickers and more to acquire houses using unfair advantages towards others.

Also spam/flood of using same function over and over again, technically also is a violation of the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Restrict to 3 clicks per day, per plot, which means would make it harder for bots and autoclickers and more to acquire houses using unfair advantages towards others.

Also spam/flood of using same function over and over again, technically also is a violation of the ToS.

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Their entire operation is a violation of the ToS. There's a problem though: There's clearly a portion of the community which actively supports them -- and not all of them are gilbuyers.

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Originally Posted by Wrestlefire769

Their entire operation is a violation of the ToS. There's a problem though: There's clearly a portion of the community which actively supports them -- and not all of them are gilbuyers.

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Restrict to 3 clicks a day, I got a new neighbor myself... that just bought his house when the time ran out, there was not people flocking it or anything, so it is a myth, it is because people want desired places I guess like Shirogane, which really is cramped and boring compared to the 3 others, got myself house plot 15 in the mist, have had it for years.... and before that plot 30 and before that plot 22....

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Restrict to 3 clicks a day, I got a new neighbor myself... that just bought his house when the time ran out, there was not people flocking it or anything, so it is a myth, it is because people want desired places I guess like Shirogane, which really is cramped and boring compared to the 3 others, got myself house plot 15 in the mist, have had it for years.... and before that plot 30 and before that plot 22....

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Good luck. I think you'd be better off just putting housing on the Mog Station.

You're already seeing significant degradation of play on some servers (mine being one), almost-certainly from botters-scripters.