Make Monk great again! 5.4 Monk doesn´t feel like Monk anymore...

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Originally Posted by Anhra

I don't see a problem with that dps loss, more Jobs other than Monk should also get a similar treatment so we can actually withness Mechanics outside of endgame Raids. And from the way i see it, Monk currently holds the fastest in-combat movement speed which feels really good to play with. I think its a good trade.

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As i´ve said, dungeons etc. doesn´t matter at all. It´s up to square enix to make them more than a 10 minute grindfest.

About the monk, the only way to be that fast combat monster IS fists of winds. But any serious player can´t use it, because of the damage loss from fists of fire. With the FoW GL4 stacks, you had the same damage but the speedbuff too. This is gone now and there is no point to use FoW anytime anymore. And if you talk about the skill speed, it´s the same as before with GL4.
And then you´ve the 2nd issue with the permanent button smashing. Either you ignore them for a while and lose damage, or you focus on them and lose a lot of concentration for the rest of the fight. What is the point in smashing RoE every 6s? Of course you´ve true north, but maybe you want that 10% dmg. red. to assist your healer? TN has 10s only too, but there are fights where the 30s are like a "must have". It´s not only annoying, it´s aboslutely clunky to press this button every couple of seconds, same as you spam chakra right now.
As i´ve said, it´s probably not even needed to play positionals anymore to since RoE is an instabutton. Who cares about the 30dmg from the "side-skills" when bootshine and chakra are the core-damager now and on top you´ve tornado kick? Stay behind the boss, press RoE when you´ve a 3-line sideskill rota and enjoy the monk in a nutshell.

SE needs to stop such dumb reworks to cater players who´re not able to learn a class and don´t want to play them seriously anyway. Just look at the SHB tanks. Tankstance, 2 skills, 5min afk and the boss is still on you...

Monk is definately not as fun and versatile as it was before.

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Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

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I´m with you, but i don´t really want to talk about the time before SHB. I think the Monk was actually great in SHB so far, just some random boss skills were able to make the life of a monk a bit harder. (aka in or out)
But that was stuff everyone was able to play around thx to fists of wind and SSS.

After playing monk primarily for 3 hours on patch day, rearranging my hotbars, and working through Stone, Sky, Sea: E8S, working on a target dummy for a long time, and I can say this.

Monk's opener is crazy bursty and it's lull's after Perfect balance are slightly disjointed due to trying to find a smooth optimal rotation since I have tried multiple. For GCD rotation out of PB phase I have settled on this:

Last PB charge >Dragon > Twin > Demolish > Boot > True > Snap > Dragon > Twin > Snap > Boot > True > Demolish.

This lines up perfectly with refreshing your Demolish DOT and Twin refresh. Downside your moving ALOT, and I found myself using RoE to get me over the short gaps in positional's, and since it's on demand with 3 charges it's very powerful if you don't want to move. While True North would work also, RoE gives damage reduction and ultimately dealers choice. Looked something like this.

Last PB charge > Dragon > Twin > RoE > Demolish > Boot > True > Snap > Dragon > Twin > Snap > RoE > Boot > True > Demolish

I was clearing Stone, Sky, Sea E8S with ilevel 490 with crit, DH, DET food respectively. Crit gave me the most time left of 12sec, and I did mess up during that attempt by not being ready for a dragon positional after 2nd PB phase, and missing a demolish application which hurt me terribly.

All I can say is this. I'm glad I don't have to worry about GL anymore because in Stone, Sky, Sea it's a non issue. But in a raid or Trial...totally different story.

Even dungeons make monk feel godlike with trash and bosses. Trash pulls: meditate > Form Shift > Shoulder Tackle> Twin Snakes > Enlightenment > Four-point fury > Rockbreaker > Destroy > Four-point > Rock. Repeat with weaving in enlightenment. AoE on monk is BUTTER smooth now with the chackra gains. I would pop RoF, BH and I was pulling mobs of the tank! This must be why the AOE skills didn't get a buff, actually I feel they may get a nerf with enlightenment being so spammy.

So in conclusion I would change:
RoE has 8 sec timer, but gives a buff with 3 charges. You have 8 sec's to use the 3 charges. Gives little more wiggle room with low ping issues.

Twin Snakes timer needs to be 20 sec as there are times where it's RAZOR's edge on losing it before Dragon kick.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

So in conclusion I would change:
RoE has 8 sec timer, but gives a buff with 3 charges. You have 8 sec's to use the 3 charges. Gives little more wiggle room with low ping issues.

Twin Snakes timer needs to be 20 sec as there are times where it's RAZOR's edge on losing it before Dragon kick.

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Buffing RoE would actually last in less positionals like we already have to play if we hold everything on CD. It should go back as it was before. A perfect solution for longer mechanics where you can´t play positionals but not this active button as it is right now.

How are you supposed to lose TS before DK when you play it every 2nd rotation? It´s close if you use it in every 3rd rotation only, but that´s up to your own attack speed and was probably never intended before GL4 came into the game.
I´m convinced that the positionals and short buff / dot durations shouldn´t be changed in any way. It´s all what the class has left and what makes it unique in some point. It´s up to the player to play the 6-key rotation perfectly.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Buffing RoE would actually last in less positionals like we already have to play if we hold everything on CD. It should go back as it was before. A perfect solution for longer mechanics where you can´t play positionals but not this active button as it is right now.

How are you supposed to lose TS before DK when you play it every 2nd rotation? It´s close if you use it in every 3rd rotation only, but that´s up to your own attack speed and was probably never intended before GL4 came into the game.
I´m convinced that the positionals and short buff / dot durations shouldn´t be changed in any way. It´s all what the class has left and what makes it unique in some point. It´s up to the player to play the 6-key rotation perfectly.

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Sorry I didn't explain that I lose Twin Snakes buff out of Perfect Balance burst phase every time. I could use Twin Snakes on the 3rd or 4th Perfect Balance charge to reset twin snakes buff, but I haven't tried this yet.

I never though i would say *i liked 5.3 mnk better* but here we go:

This rework is completely terrible and will make it so BLU actually overtakes MNK in playerbase

MNK mains already complained about the boring rotation and rng chakra messing you up, guess what, it's even worse now.
-TK might as well not exist now, it was rarely used before but at least you had to think about using it.
-anatman is actually useless now
-burst window is overloaded with rng ogcd drifting and needs 0 setup. Basically it's s trick attack window now but you need more meele uptime for it
-pb change did nothing for people who are able to press buttons
-fists "lol"
-double true is dead, and with it the only *depth* your 123 rotation had (and with depth I mean trying extra hard to have full uptime and no clipping which is something you should do anyways, but at least it was extra encouraging and I honestly think it made a lot of players improve)
-RoE is worse and makes burst windows even more overloaded when it aligns with certain boss mechanics
-Gl changes nothing except being an elaborate joke when sqaure told us that "it's stressful to upkeep"

Square tries so hard to make the job (well and every other), appealing to people who find pressing 1 button every 2.5 seconds stressfull and take their dps advice from youtubers than are critfishing in stone sea sky in their rotation videos

But guess what, those people will drop the job anyway after next week because:
-Positional are wayyyyy to hard, spending time playing a job so you gain muscle memory and can completely ignore them is way too much work and only for toxic elitists, who have the audacity to tell me, a battle mentor, to stop using cure 1 for free procs and use holy
-burst phase still requires basic uptime so why not just use ninja and have the same thing but simpler with more dmg
-Damage isn't overtuned so they can't feel good about their 140k midare crits and tell other people to git gud because they pressed a button
-needs uptime
-some more crying about positionals
-sss is an amazing disengage tool for the most part, although lacking the backup of mobility in the mnk skill set for optimal use. Problem is you have to think about when to press it so it's useless

The only time square is doing fun things with mnk is when they mess up and the community comes up with actually interesting ideas, example tk rotation

monk feels gret now I dont hav to tink
it feels sow god to just go to enemy ænd push the button it feels god grist litning was stressfull anywai ho kares that is gon now i cæn aktuly play gam wit monk withut stress but ofcurse i main whm and pal but it feels god to switch to mnk withut stress if i whant to i whish sqer enix would just make a win button for evry job

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

monk feels gret now I dont hav to tink
it feels sow god to just go to enemy ænd push the button it feels god grist litning was stressfull anywai ho kares that is gon now i cæn aktuly play gam wit monk withut stress but ofcurse i main whm and pal but it feels god to switch to mnk withut stress if i whant to i whish sqer enix would just make a win button for evry job

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This is how I felt when they deleted all of MCH mechanics and made it into a spam feast and not the good kind lol

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Originally Posted by acceleratedben

-anatman is actually useless now
-burst window is overloaded with rng ogcd drifting and needs 0 setup. Basically it's s trick attack window now but you need more meele uptime for it
-pb change did nothing for people who are able to press buttons
-fists "lol"
-double true is dead, and with it the only *depth* your 123 rotation had (and with depth I mean trying extra hard to have full uptime and no clipping which is something you should do anyways, but at least it was extra encouraging and I honestly think it made a lot of players improve)
-RoE is worse and makes burst windows even more overloaded when it aligns with certain boss mechanics
-Gl changes nothing except being an elaborate joke when sqaure told us that "it's stressful to upkeep"

But guess what, those people will drop the job anyway after next week because:
-Positional are wayyyyy to hard, spending time playing a job so you gain muscle memory and can completely ignore them is way too much work and only for toxic elitists, who have the audacity to tell me, a battle mentor, to stop using cure 1 for free procs and use holy
-burst phase still requires basic uptime so why not just use ninja and have the same thing but simpler with more dmg
-Damage isn't overtuned so they can't feel good about their 140k midare crits and tell other people to git gud because they pressed a button
-needs uptime
-some more crying about positionals
-sss is an amazing disengage tool for the most part, although lacking the backup of mobility in the mnk skill set for optimal use. Problem is you have to think about when to press it so it's useless

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I have a hard time believing that the now current monk is complete, although a step in a direction I have hoped for years in removing GL. 6.0 we are going to see a huge amount of pruning of skills for monk I feel given the changes we have now.

-anatman gone.
-Riddle of Earth gone
-Meditation gone or reworked into a level based sliding trait from 50+
-SSS gone
-Stances gone or reworked into traits
-chackra gone and reworked into ninki or kenki style gauge since we overcap on chackra like crazy now. I would love a double Forbidden though!
-Positional's reworked into less movement per action and I predict only 2 skills that need requirements: Bootshine and Dragon Kick to keep the whole burst phase the same, and the importance of Leaden + Critical for chackra.

These are my predictions and I don't see SE doing this anytime soon as they are building the job from an optimal stand point and not from a "is it fun?" standpoint. Does monk wreck face? YES! Can it be a nightmare to play optimally? YES! Is it to early to judge this job 2 days after a massive rework? YES!

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I have a hard time believing that the now current monk is complete, although a step in a direction I have hoped for years in removing GL. 6.0 we are going to see a huge amount of pruning of skills for monk I feel given the changes we have now.

-anatman gone.
-Riddle of Earth gone
-Meditation gone or reworked into a level based sliding trait from 50+
-SSS gone
-Stances gone or reworked into traits
-chackra gone and reworked into ninki or kenki style gauge since we overcap on chackra like crazy now. I would love a double Forbidden though!
-Positional's reworked into less movement per action and I predict only 2 skills that need requirements: Bootshine and Dragon Kick to keep the whole burst phase the same, and the importance of Leaden + Critical for chackra.

These are my predictions and I don't see SE doing this anytime soon as they are building the job from an optimal stand point and not from a "is it fun?" standpoint. Does monk wreck face? YES! Can it be a nightmare to play optimally? YES! Is it to early to judge this job 2 days after a massive rework? YES!

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It doesn´t make sense to bring a rework which isn´t complete and need a whole new patch in a year or so to be actually well playable and enjoyable.

And it´s definately not too early to judge about the changes. RoE is horrible as much as the monk is slower in movement. You´ve to play the monk with a slower GCD too to bring more damage. And on top of that you just spam everything on CD. It´s pretty much braindead imo.

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Originally Posted by acceleratedben

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Welcome to the Pre-ShB MCH/MnK/Tanks/Healers fan club.

Square will rework every single job to literally the same thing as MCH and MnK in an effort to alienate the core players who did invest their time into the job because they find it fun, and to attract 80% of the playerbase who just presses 3 buttons and still mess up their rotation.

And since that very same playerbase buys more mogstation uwu emotes and more likely to become FFXIV cultists/white knights, they have an incentive to keep attracting them rather than keeping the old core playerbase, who's more likely to actually give criticism to the game.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Welcome to the Pre-ShB MCH/MnK/Tanks/Healers fan club.

Square will rework every single job to literally the same thing as MCH and MnK in an effort to alienate the core players who did invest their time into the job because they find it fun, and to attract 80% of the playerbase who just presses 3 buttons and still mess up their rotation.

And since that very same playerbase buys more mogstation uwu emotes and more likely to become FFXIV cultists/white knights, they have an incentive to keep attracting them rather than keeping the old core playerbase, who's more likely to actually give criticism to the game.

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Welcome to capitalism my dude, unfortunately the mogstation people you loathe have the money to keep the game running.

the start of this thread really tugged my nostalgia strings for 2.0. I for one really enjoyed the solo utility a lot of those cross skills gave us. i really liked the oomph of a haymaker proc, especially during those times in dungeons where id have to offtank adds. i liked having layers of defenses like featherfoot, even if they werent that impactful. they were just nice little extras that werent hugely useful most of the time but gave you some extra style when they were. The job plays a lot smoother than it did back then of course, but i feel like its completely lost its identity other than just being "the physical dps that kicks things"

At this point, the defining feature of the job is "positionals" and "neat animations we rarely see in their entirety if we're actually putting in some effort."

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Welcome to capitalism my dude, unfortunately the mogstation people you loathe have the money to keep the game running.

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The mog station is not needed to keep the game running. We all pay every month and there are millions of players.

Such "bad players" have so much content anyway. Dungeons, treasure-maps, glam, uwu, eureka, bodzja, man just everything... and everything can be done without any decent rotation next to that 1% endcontent which is for players who actually read the skills and understand how jobs are working. There is no need to touch the classes unless they´re broken in any direction. Monk was definately NOT broken, it was fine, just needed a little buff, nothing else...

I´m so f* tired of this. First they made my maintank a no brainer, which stopped me from playing for a while, now they touch my lovely monk... it´s just sad.
Not that i "hate" such casuals, i would help everyone who needs help with any class and raids and stuff. But the "no will to learn" - attitude and the following direction about classes from SE is just pure cancer.

Just stop to kill the game for me! The content is completely irrelevant when the class is no fun and demanding in some way. Bring the 5.3 Monk back and for everyone who can´t play it, try dragoon, it´s easy.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

The mog station is not needed to keep the game running. We all pay every month and there are millions of players.

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SQEX uses the subscription money largely to fund other projects. Funds from the Mogstation go 100% back into the game.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

I respect any opinion here, no matter if it´s low level or whatever. But i´ve to come and ask again, what´s the point to rework a class for players who won´t main or 2nd main this class anyway? There are a lot of classes with different playstyles and difficulties. Making the monk a " slow no brain - button smasher" is no fun.

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Hmm idk really. I can't answer on behalf of the people that do these balancing choices lol. Maybe they're doing it in hopes that more people will enjoy the job while they're levelling it and end up sticking with it? Maybe it's just all about that $$$? I have no clue xD

But I will take the change and enjoy it while it's here until whatever changes happen in the future. I'm sure you people will eventually find a patch where you'll enjoy this job again but for now it is the era of the n00bs who hated maintaining GL xD

Saw this somewhere else : they could have just turned Anatman in a 45 sec CD that gives all stacks in once. That way, people who mess up or die have a "back in track" option. And those who don't would have a TK every 45 secs like now, but more engaging since you consume ressource (so if you just TK / Anatman then mess up GL, feels bad man but that's a good thing to actually not be braindead).

If really they wanted to simplify, they could have cut the timer, but leave the gathering up and the spending on skills like TK and maybe others.

PB change is nice tho ngl.