In-game content behind paywalls/ Exclusivity on limited time events/mounts/etc

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Originally Posted by Malakii

So you in that regard, they should just put every mount/minion/title/etc on the mog station.

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I guess that's one way to stretch it to keep the argument going.

If consumers never supported the Mogstation in the first place, then it never would have gotten to the point where it is now. Consumers just never realize they hold the most power in the industry. What are they gonna do, close the game down they invested so heavily to revive because we didn't buy the ridiculously expensive cosmetics? I like how the controversy of Star Wars Battlefront 2 worked, but it didn't teach consumers anything.

I can understand charging for services like Fantasia, server transfer, name change and extra retainers is streeeetching it, but so many of the outfits, emotes and mounts should have been obtainable in the game. The emotes for Play Dead, why isn't that a reward for Palace of the Dead? Why aren't the new dancing emotes just.. obtainable via. a unlock blue quest like the initial 3? I can just justify locking the seasonal things behind the paywall, if we could actually play the past seasonal events if we purchased the items in a bundle, like what GW2 does when you miss a Living Story.

"It's just cosmetics" is not a valid excuse when they are clearly using a portion of manpower to develop these items to loot extra money instead of fully committing to putting content and rewards into the game. If Square Enix is extracting the monthly sub revenue from FFXIV to fund other projects, don't give them more power to do so by buying the Mogstation items... But eh, the damage is already done and people are clearly content with the business practice.

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Originally Posted by thansu

people are clearly content with the business practice.

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That's exactly it. People have always had the power to "vote with their wallets" and they have clearly voted.

I would be fine with it if it was just a timed exclusivity. But yeah, locking an in game item behind a several hundred dollar limited run statue or a limited issue high demand guide book is definitely annoying. At least put the item in the cash shop 6 months or a year after the statue/book/etc. releases.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I would be fine with it if it was just a timed exclusivity. But yeah, locking an in game item behind a several hundred dollar limited run statue or a limited issue high demand guide book is definitely annoying. At least put the item in the cash shop 6 months or a year after the statue/book/etc. releases.

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Ahhh! Don't remind me of this, it hurts me so much that the Wind-up Dulia Chai and Nidhogg minions are locked behind the items... ;_;

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Yes. Many of the Mogstation items are made by Korean and Chinese 3rd parties who run the Korean and Chinese ports of the game over there. Some of their promotions and designs make their way over to our cash shop.

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I guess "many" is relative, but it is relatively few.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

Items from the mog station if it did not exist would be in the game. If their only source of cash flow were our subs. Then yes they would because its an item people have requested and why would they be? Because they want to keep your sub and if you say I want this mount/minion/glamour/etc and you get enough support they will do it.

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No those items wouldn't be in the game. Those items were only made because of the cashshop. No cashshop no items made for it. Again... the only reason they exist is BECAUSE the store is here. That team that makes them wouldn't be a team making anything if the store wasn't here. Your sub is only here to let you into the game. It is in no way paying for you to have items made to be sold.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

I guess "many" is relative, but it is relatively few.

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Pretty sure most if not all of the "Asian" themed glam on the market board were made by the Chinese and Korean 3rd parties that run those servers. These all appeared in their versions of the game first. I'm not sure what strict rules you have for when you're allowed to use the word "many" but I feel like it works here.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

They are making money with your sub fee. Then selling you an item that belongs in the game which you are paying them to create just to put on the shop instead of putting it in the game you spent your money on.

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Except they don't belong in the game. Cash Shop items are developed by a different team—one who likely oversees micro-transactions in several Square Enix IPs. These items are typically made for the sole purpose of generating profit. Without the Cash Shop, most would not exist. As for the statues. They're essentially saying, "Here's something special since you just spent $300+." Most people actually want the physical item not just the emote.

These only complaint I'll readily support is everything should be account wide. Or at the very least, the option should be offered. I also wish they'd sell individual pieces since I don't always want the whole outfit.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

You saying SE outsource cash shop items?

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Yes. in fact, this is quite common in the game industry. EA outsources entire games regularly. Just to offer an example.

The only thing I wish they did with cash shop was an in game way to earn crysta. Like gil to crysta (and not back to gil). I like a lot of the cash money items, but I would prefer to use my gil to purchase it, even if it was like a million gil to the dollar.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The only thing I wish they did with cash shop was an in game way to earn crysta. Like gil to crysta (and not back to gil). I like a lot of the cash money items, but I would prefer to use my gil to purchase it, even if it was like a million gil to the dollar.

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The reason they don't is gil has become so comically inflated, it's largely worthless. I could nearly afford to purchase the Omega M/F statue with only gil even using your ratio. Adding a conversion system like that would make RMT and bots worse on a whole new level since they'd have a huge incentivize—more than they already do.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The only thing I wish they did with cash shop was an in-game way to earn crysta. Like gil to crysta (and not back to gil). I like a lot of the cash money items, but I would prefer to use my gil to purchase it, even if it was like a million gil to the dollar.

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I would be okay with that as well, just some way to earn these without spending money. I just not part of this generation that is like here take my money you deserve it. You are awesome for creating a digital product and not including it in the game. Yes another team is maybe making them, does it matter it still capital SE invests and receives returns on to exclude content from being delivered in-game. I still remember games before loot boxes, cash shop, that when you purchased the game the developers not only made content for 1000's of hours but they used just your sub to make content. Like FF11 where was the cash shop in that. There wasn't one, maybe now idk. In this game you finish content in 8 weeks, then wait for 3-6 months, but I digress it doesn't matter. It's a new era of gaming. I can see that. Have to hope AoC or Panethon lives up to no cash shop models.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

I would be okay with that as well, just some way to earn these without spending money. I just not part of this generation that is like here take my money you deserve it. You are awesome for creating a digital product and not including it in the game. Yes another team is maybe making them, does it matter it still capital SE invests and receives returns on to exclude content from being delivered in-game. I still remember games before loot boxes, cash shop, that when you purchased the game the developers not only made content for 1000's of hours but they used just your sub to make content. Like FF11 where was the cash shop in that. There wasn't one, maybe now idk. In this game you finish content in 8 weeks, then wait for 3-6 months, but I digress it doesn't matter. It's a new era of gaming. I can see that. Have to hope AoC or Panethon lives up to no cash shop models.

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The only way to get what you apparently want is to start paying way more for video games. kiss 60 bucks goodbye if you want cashshops to be gone. Better start asking devs to sell their games at like 120 a pop then. It's whatever to me.. I make enough cash to do it. But you'll get ALOT of push back from gamers not in the spot of able to drop 120 a pop. It just wouldn't work. Hell look at the push back 2K is getting from trying to sell their new 2k basketball game on PS5 next year. And that's just a jump of TEN bucks.

I'm all for any purely cosmetic additions to the cash shop, because without them, our subs would probably double in price.
Within reason of course, but previously exclusive limited time event items are the perfect candidates.

You can't 100% an MMO, so your argument that "players are conditioned to collect everything" falls pretty flat.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

With the recent talk of changing the names of the titles in the firmament and seeing the badass omega weapon statue, it has brought up some issues I personally have had for a while and would love to hear what the community thinks about these things as well.

This leads me to the cash shop. I know some people are going to disagree or come back with the response that the cash shop items revenue is used to create more cash shop items. This is an irrelevant statement IMO. I feel the gaming industry has conditioned gamers to want to complete these goals by rewarding platinum trophies in the past and the 100% completion title. Thus, I feel like these cash shops are a form of predatory practice by excluding items from the game to have customers pay more for content that should be already included in the paid product. Normally this is w/e in a free-to-play game but this is a subscription-based game and the reason I support subscription-based games is to avoid these kinds of practices or hope to at least.

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There have been quite a few threads about this already. However, your "Feel" is wrong. First off you're comparing normal games to an MMO in terms of "Completion". No. Conditioned to want to accomplish everything? No. Because i sure as in hell don't care much for achievements, i play to have fun. Predatory? No. The mogstation is nothing but "Optional" items. You don't need them. And no it should not be included in the base game because again, it's "Optional". No one is forcing you to buy these things other than yourself and then you complain about it because you can't keep yourself in place.

And as for a subscription based game - you pay for the content given within the expansions and patches/updates that follow. Also monthly sub is paying for servers/maintenance/future expansions/content/paying employees, etc. So no, you did not "Pay" for everything in the mogstation which is purely cosmetic/optional.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

There have been quite a few threads about this already. However, your "Feel" is wrong. First off you're comparing normal games to an MMO in terms of "Completion". No. Conditioned to want to accomplish everything? No. Because i sure as in hell don't care much for achievements, i play to have fun. Predatory? No. The mogstation is nothing but "Optional" items. You don't need them. And no it should not be included in the base game because again, it's "Optional". No one is forcing you to buy these things other than yourself and then you complain about it because you can't keep yourself in place.

And as for a subscription based game - you pay for the content given within the expansions and patches/updates that follow. Also monthly sub is paying for servers/maintenance/future expansions/content/paying employees, etc. So no, you did not "Pay" for everything in the mogstation which is purely cosmetic/optional.

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My feel is not wrong it is my opinion as I have stated several times, just like your statement is your opinion. I am not complaining cause I am forced to buy anything. I stated if I want to collect etc. I would have to spend thousands of dollars and in that regard, I would be forced to pay money cause there is no other way to obtain these digital items. You think I am personally buying anything from the cash shop. Hell no, I think cash shops are the downfall to any game. It is the first sign that shareholders and profits are more important than the player base. I don't understand why digital items from SE don't belong in base game of ffxiv. Are they to do with ffxiv, yea. Are they digital content that already exist in FFXIV, yea. So why would they go to a cash shop and not the whole player base? 1 reason is profit, money. As a consumer, you approve of this? Like i dont understand the white knighting of SE. Also, I think just cause it doesn't apply to you personally I feel like it does apply to some people and the gaming industry not specifically SE has encouraged collecting of items. There are roughly 60k+ twitch viewers that watch asmongold and what does he do? Collect achievements and mounts.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

It is the first sign that shareholders and profits are more important than the player base.

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Both are important. One can't exists without the other, hence a balance has to be maintained. You'd know this if you've ever run a business.
The playerbase is largely happy with the cash shop as it is, it's one of the better, most player-friendly cash shops of all MMO's. It's not at all predatory because it's all cosmetic, and it's not advertised in-game.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I'm all for any purely cosmetic additions to the cash shop, because without them, our subs would probably double in price.
Within reason of course, but previously exclusive limited time event items are the perfect candidates.

You can't 100% an MMO, so your argument that "players are conditioned to collect everything" falls pretty flat.

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I disagree but, to each their own. This game will end but while it goes on. I am currently 100% complete on triple triad cards. You can have 100% for patches until the next one comes out. I mean take ff15 for example when it came out for could get the platinum for it. Then they added episodes on top of it and calculated it back into the overall score. No new platinum but new trophies. Was I not 100% before episodes came out. Ofc I was. As far as the sub raising i don't see it happening but, if it did it wouln't be by that much. I think that is heavy exaggerated but hey I was too in the initial post so touche.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Both are important. One can't exists without the other, hence a balance has to be maintained. You'd know this if you've ever run a business.
The playerbase is largely happy with the cash shop as it is, it's one of the better, most player-friendly cash shops of all MMO's. It's not at all predatory because it's all cosmetic, and it's not advertised in-game.

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You would also know that you can have all the stakeholders and investments you want but you would not have any profits without consumers. If the community disagrees with a direction SE is going we have the power to say no. SE could say you know what FFXIV is not worth it and shut it down or they would change. I think we hold a little more value than you give us credit for, they want that ROI.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

You would also know that you can have all the stakeholders and investments you want but you would not have any profits without consumers. If the community disagrees with a direction SE is going we have the power to say no. SE could say you know what FFXIV is not worth it and shut it down or they would change. I think we hold a little more value than you give us credit for, they want that ROI.

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Is that not what I just said?

You're right, luckily the community doesn't, for the most part, disagree. Its just you.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The only thing I wish they did with cash shop was an in game way to earn crysta. Like gil to crysta (and not back to gil). I like a lot of the cash money items, but I would prefer to use my gil to purchase it, even if it was like a million gil to the dollar.

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I thought their veteran reward program could have been a sort of cash shop rewards, like every 3 months you get some small cute items (tickets, exp items, fireworks), and a small amount of kupo cash, and every other 3 months (every 6) you'll get a larger amount of that kupo cash (time calculated based on subscription time totaled). Maybe reference FFIX with it being like jars of Moguta's Kupo Nut Conditioner (every jar made with the finest nuts). The kupo cream you can use to reduce the price of items or if you wait a long time you can just purchase something right out. Like to buy a single mount and it might take 1 1/2 - 2 years but eh, free. Also then could say everything is obtainable through in game means- reducing negative comments on the shop even further, given at least an extreme amount of patience lol.

I feel you can bring the experience full circle by adding an in game mognet to complete these tasks too (add some new postman quests, but also has a back stage for their secret shop where you can try on, ride, and generally preview shop items), the best if you get an animation of rubbing down the kupo with your conditioner as bribery for their shop and it coming out super puffy lol. Might be a real cute scene where they secretly bring you to their back shop and when the boss isn't looking you just give them a dab of conditioner on their cheeks and so they reduce the price of an item for you, or if you give them the full kupo experience (pay in full with conditioner) they just secretly let you walk out while the big boss isn't watching haha.

Might even have more fun with Mognet content by like being able to upgrade your mobile mog companion (the app SE has made for your phone), such like you can use them to water all your plants on a single plot (1 nut = all plants on a plot), can choose fc or personal, or other tasks like unit management (being able to send your squadron out, and retainers). The content doesn't have to be cash shop related, like the postman quest example and I encourage that too, making it a lively moogle place (of course some of it might relate to shop). Or like spend some of the conditioner to upgrade your daily allowance or max storage on the app. Since there is a subscription service to the app I assume any upgrade to allowance would be temporary (spend x conditioner to get extra allowance from the mog companion for x months), the storage maybe not temporary- which would be a real nice partner in conjunction with the free daily allowance (this will be a bit offset by a number of new features you can do, so the subscription isn't useless but the app is more empowered for the general audience too). Watering the yard would be a real relief option to me since sometimes when I go on vacation it's like "if they, my friends, don't remember to water my stuff then all my onions are going to die.... RIP....".

Sorry to burst your bubble, in subscription based games it is very common that the only thing your subscription is paying for is simply being able to access the game and play it. Unless it's stated otherwise what the subscription provides, that is the norm. Being a subscriber doesn't automatically entail that you will be able to obtain every single thing from the game.

Unless I missed something, me buying a subscription never stated I could get everything from the mogstation for free. Square is in their rights to have the Mogstation, especially when everything on there is simply "You pay for it, you get it. No RNG involved". You have the right to not use the Mogstation of course.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

I disagree but, to each their own. This game will end but while it goes on. I am currently 100% complete on triple triad cards. You can have 100% for patches until the next one comes out. I mean take ff15 for example when it came out for could get the platinum for it. Then they added episodes on top of it and calculated it back into the overall score. No new platinum but new trophies. Was I not 100% before episodes came out. Ofc I was. As far as the sub raising i don't see it happening but, if it did it wouln't be by that much. I think that is heavy exaggerated but hey I was too in the initial post so touche.

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Alright. So you like to accomplish achievements and collectable's right? You're the type of guy to want/have EVERYTHING? So, i have a simple question for you, i'm just curious because i wan't to see how this plays out. But, do you have ALL Legacy achievements? Seeing how they aren't obtainable anymore since 1.0 ended i'm curious on how you would take this if you don't have them all. What are your thoughts on this?

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Alright. So you like to accomplish achievements and collectable's right? You're the type of guy to want/have EVERYTHING? So, i have a simple question for you, i'm just curious because i wan't to see how this plays out. But, do you have ALL Legacy achievements? Seeing how they aren't obtainable anymore since 1.0 ended i'm curious on how you would take this if you don't have them all. What are your thoughts on this?

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No I had a majority of them but not all. I disagree with that too. I wish they would never have removed the ability to get them, but tweak them into a new achievement like they did for some or cleared them completely since they remade the game. I think all achievement etc should be able to be aquire in game for a veteran like myself and someone that just started yesterday. The fact that they just sit on my achievement screen and I know there isn't shit I can do about them gives me ocd a little not going to lie. Also, I understand this sounds ridiculous probably to a lot of people its just what I get enjoyment out of. I know its weird. I just like to experience all parts of the game and complete all things associated with it. It like I am getting my moneys worth and it keeps me having a constant goal.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

TDLR

I am against locking mounts/minions/emotes behind paywalls as an incentive for players to spend extra money on items that should be included in the game and be obtained through in-game means that are instead attached to products that are not relevant to your char in-game and may or may not be desired by the community. I am curious as why there are some members of the community wholeheartedly support this. I think exclusivity in a game is a good thing when done right, but locking them behind limited-time events/seasons/promotions or regional tags is not the correct way to do it. Customer participation in cash shops IMO encourages companies to leave digital items out from the game so they can get even more cash from the consumer. If you want to throw money at SE invest in their stock, buy their clothing, throw it at me, but don't diminish the product you already paid for by encouraging them to leave more out of it for extra capital gain. SE or any sub-model for that matter already has a steady stream of income. Cash shop is just greed. This is just my opinion and would love to hear what the community thinks about it.

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I disagree completely.

First, these are not content, these are optional items that have no bearing on gameplay, nor are they limiting what you can get in-game.


Second, and the biggest reason why you are wrong, these items allow them to keep costs down for the monthly subscription while being able to maintain a high level of production costs and Q&A to provide a quality gaming experience. Or did you think your $14 a month really was enough to pay for the development of new content in 2020? Trust me when I say it's not even close. Fortunately, we have items that sell well in our cash shop which covers the actual expenses of keeping a top tier MMORPG running, items that do not give gameplay advantages. Yet give enjoyment to those who buy them.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I thought their veteran reward program could have been a sort of cash shop rewards, like every 3 months you get some small cute items (tickets, exp items, fireworks), and a small amount of kupo cash, and every other 3 months (every 6) you'll get a larger amount of that kupo cash (time calculated based on subscription time totaled).

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This is the sort of thing I've mentioned before, and I think it's a great idea. I think they should let us use our now useless Veteran points and/or achievement points to essentially buy cash shop coupons. Say 6 months worth of sub time gets you 1 50% off coupon for any one item in the cash shop. They could also even limit the coupon usage to give a maximum of, say, $10 off with only one coupon usable per transaction so you couldn't just save up several years worth of coupons to get "big items" for free.

This sort of arrangement would not only reward players for actually playing (and paying for) the game but it would also push players to buy from the store if they wouldn't otherwise do so. I mean, a $30 mount might be out of your comfort zone but $15 or $20 with your Veteran Coupon? Suddenly way more reasonable.

As someone who has purchased many pieces of merchandise in large part due to the addition of bonus in-game codes...

...I'd like to see a compromise in the form of a six month exclusivity period, after which the items linked to the codes are sold on the Mog Station.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

I disagree completely.

First, these are not content, these are optional items that have no bearing on gameplay, nor are they limiting what you can get in-game.


Second, and the biggest reason why you are wrong, these items allow them to keep costs down for the monthly subscription while being able to maintain a high level of production costs and Q&A to provide a quality gaming experience. Or did you think your $14 a month really was enough to pay for the development of new content in 2020? Trust me when I say it's not even close. Fortunately, we have items that sell well in our cash shop which covers the actual expenses of keeping a top tier MMORPG running, items that do not give gameplay advantages. Yet give enjoyment to those who buy them.

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Well first off I don't pay $14 dollars I pay $9.99 per month. 2nd they don't just get your sub they get your cash too when you buy the actual game + expac + the sub each month. Where is this stated and why do people speak on it with such authority. Our subs would be so high without this mog station? Our subs couldn't run the game! So you are telling me that you think the supplemental income is what keeps them afloat. That SE banks every month on having enough people buy optional content to keep the game running and enough people buy it every month not only to pay for development but to keep our subs the same price. You can't speak on the cost of this cause SE is tightlipped about active subscriptions, costs, etc., but logically you can say to yourself if SE was losing money on the project that they would stop the project our indeed raise our subs. They are not idiots and I don't know any triple AAA company that leaves it up to such sporadic income hoping it keeps them afloat for a foreseeable future. If actual numbers are release and talked about then maybe I would be like okay yes that makes sense, but for what you can see in their annual financial reports and their current stocks are that SE is profitable.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

Well first off I don't pay $14 dollars I pay $9.99 per month. 2nd they don't just get your sub they get your cash too when you buy the actual game + expac + the sub each month. Where is this stated and why do people speak on it with such authority. Our subs would be so high without this mog station? Our subs couldn't run the game! So you are telling me that you think the supplemental income is what keeps them afloat. That SE banks every month on having enough people buy optional content to keep the game running and enough people buy it every month not only to pay for development but to keep our subs the same price. You can't speak on the cost of this cause SE is tightlipped about active subscriptions, costs, etc., but logically you can say to yourself if SE was losing money on the project that they would stop the project our indeed raise our subs. They are not idiots and I don't know any triple AAA company that leaves it up to such sporadic income hoping it keeps them afloat for a foreseeable future. If actual numbers are release and talked about then maybe I would be like okay yes that makes sense, but for what you can see in their annual financial reports and their current stocks are that SE is profitable.

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My S.O works in the industry as a Developer.

As to what things cover. Subs cover the cost of maintaining servers, the fact you pay less than the average, kind of helps my point along on this.

The box cost basically covers out of the pocket expenses to make new expansions.

The additional patches, new content during an expansion, and giving a higher polish to the game overall is covered by the cash shop.

Think of it like this:

(for easy math saying $10 as a baseline)
$10 for average monthly - 20 million accounts so estimating 5 million paid accounts. That would be 50million before taxes and investors. which leaves $25million, cost on bandwidth and server space for 20million accounts is close two $1 a person. so give or take server cost is around $20million. This gives the dev team $5million to pay employees working to oversee the player base.

Next to the box game plus expansions, this covers the costs making the game, the extra devs, artists, musicians, voice actors, and basically everything in the opening act of the expansion.

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what these things don't cover, patch update content, holiday events, and supplemental gameplay events ie new raids. They have to pay artists, musicians, voice actors, programmers to make patch content, so where do they get the money? Sell stuff in the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

My S.O works in the industry as a Developer.

As to what things cover. Subs cover the cost of maintaining servers, the fact you pay less than the average, kind of helps my point along on this.

The box cost basically covers out of the pocket expenses to make new expansions.

The additional patches, new content during an expansion, and giving a higher polish to the game overall is covered by the cash shop.

Think of it like this:

(for easy math saying $10 as a baseline)
$10 for average monthly - 20 million accounts so estimating 5 million paid accounts. That would be 50million before taxes and investors. which leaves $25million, cost on bandwidth and server space for 20million accounts is close two $1 a person. so give or take server cost is around $20million. This gives the dev team $5million to pay employees working to oversee the player base.

Next to the box game plus expansions, this covers the costs making the game, the extra devs, artists, musicians, voice actors, and basically everything in the opening act of the expansion.

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what these things don't cover, patch update content, holiday events, and supplemental gameplay events ie new raids. They have to pay artists, musicians, voice actors, programmers to make patch content, so where do they get the money? Sell stuff in the cash shop.

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Thanks for the response gothic. I am over it the OP tbh. It doesn't matter if you are right or I am right. It's not going to change. I think you storage cost estimate is a little high and some other things but still, I appreciate a well thought out response. Cash shop is not going anywhere and neither is the gatekeeping.

Sorry, I disagree. I see no problem with them putting emotes alongside the statues. I have bought two each time they release, and will continue to do so.

There is nothing wrong with it, and this is the same speech a VERY minor few people have been posting for 7 years(we need the doom and gloom thread back). What is and isn’t right when it comes to how they make money, that’s probably going to lean more towards you know, the developer/IP holder making decisions for the company and its interests, and not the player base.

To further that, I enjoy supporting the game and developers past the 12.99 a month it costs to play, I actually don’t remember anymore the exact original sub cost because I also choose to pay for all retainers and the app. Nothing about it is predatory. I also play FFBE and don’t whale, when in fact THAT game, is more in line with what you’re claiming is going on here with the Mogstation and items they sell with merch. It’s your choice, they aren’t forcing you to buy anything or pressuring you to, there is absolutely NO in game advantage to me getting the emote(a cosmetic effect), and you not, and there’s 0 reason that they can’t or shouldn’t do it past your disagreement with it. There CAN be a balance of both in and out of game. The money goes back into the game from what has been told in the past. I doubt we’d be where we are with the game if not for all they’ve done up to this point.

The only thing I would change personally about how the cash shop works, is to do what WoW does and donate proceeds to charity for specific mounts/pets. Otherwise, I think everything is fine the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

[...]what these things don't cover, patch update content, holiday events, and supplemental gameplay events ie new raids. They have to pay artists, musicians, voice actors, programmers to make patch content, so where do they get the money? Sell stuff in the cash shop.

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This is especially true for FF14 since the only money it makes that goes 100% back into the game is when someone makes a purchase from the Mogstation.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

Sorry, I disagree. I see no problem with them putting emotes alongside the statues. I have bought two each time they release, and will continue to do so.

There is nothing wrong with it, and this is the same speech a VERY minor few people have been posting for 7 years(we need the doom and gloom thread back). What is and isn’t right when it comes to how they make money, that’s probably going to lean more towards you know, the developer/IP holder making decisions for the company and its interests, and not the player base.

To further that, I enjoy supporting the game and developers past the 12.99 a month it costs to play, I actually don’t remember anymore the exact original sub cost because I also choose to pay for all retainers and the app. Nothing about it is predatory. I also play FFBE and don’t whale, when in fact THAT game, is more in line with what you’re claiming is going on here with the Mogstation and items they sell with merch. It’s your choice, they aren’t forcing you to buy anything or pressuring you to, there is absolutely NO in game advantage to me getting the emote(a cosmetic effect), and you not, and there’s 0 reason that they can’t or shouldn’t do it past your disagreement with it. There CAN be a balance of both in and out of game. The money goes back into the game from what has been told in the past. I doubt we’d be where we are with the game if not for all they’ve done up to this point.

The only thing I would change personally about how the cash shop works, is to do what WoW does and donate proceeds to charity for specific mounts/pets. Otherwise, I think everything is fine the way it is.

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Eh.. I have enough disposable income myself but this is a pretty skewed view. If you can afford to buy two of every statue they release, plus all retainers, plus the app to the degree where you're not even sure how much it all costs, it's pretty easy to see why you see nothing wrong with the current practices. Sure they could be doing things in a much more predatory way but it's easy to see why people aren't entirely happy.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Eh.. I have enough disposable income myself but this is a pretty skewed view. If you can afford to buy two of every statue they release, plus all retainers, plus the app to the degree where you're not even sure how much it all costs, it's pretty easy to see why you see nothing wrong with the current practices. Sure they could be doing things in a much more predatory way but it's easy to see why people aren't entirely happy.

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Except it’s not even a little predatory, in any way. I work 75 hours a week right now, dont go posting that people just have money to throw around. People smoke, they drink, they do a lot of things I’d wager their money is probably better spent on, or to draw it in a bit. How someone chooses to spend their money is their business. It is not the fault of the company for providing a service or goods that someone else is mad that they cannot have because it is locked behind something they do not want to buy, or can not afford. That isn’t how the world works.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Eh.. I have enough disposable income myself but this is a pretty skewed view. If you can afford to buy two of every statue they release, plus all retainers, plus the app to the degree where you're not even sure how much it all costs, it's pretty easy to see why you see nothing wrong with the current practices. Sure they could be doing things in a much more predatory way but it's easy to see why people aren't entirely happy.

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It's easy to see for sure. It's called entitlement. People think there shouldn't be anything someone else has that they don't. The thread includes timed exclusive items like titles or mounts from events... Like that's not even predatory that's just how they reward people for participating throughout the year. The poster having enough disposable income to get convenience and buy products to support a game they enjoy doesn't make their viewpoint "skewed", in my opinion. It seems to me like a good way to both support the company and get cool stuff yourself.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Eh.. I have enough disposable income myself but this is a pretty skewed view. If you can afford to buy two of every statue they release, plus all retainers, plus the app to the degree where you're not even sure how much it all costs, it's pretty easy to see why you see nothing wrong with the current practices. Sure they could be doing things in a much more predatory way but it's easy to see why people aren't entirely happy.

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A lot of people have funny priorities. Like donating their entire minimum wage paycheck to twitch streamers.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

It's easy to see for sure. It's called entitlement. People think there shouldn't be anything someone else has that they don't. The thread includes timed exclusive items like titles or mounts from events... Like that's not even predatory that's just how they reward people for participating throughout the year. The poster having enough disposable income to get convenience and buy products to support a game they enjoy doesn't make their viewpoint "skewed", in my opinion. It seems to me like a good way to both support the company and get cool stuff yourself.

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Its not entitlement man lol, its real life. I was deployed to Afghanistan when the 1st PVP season was going on, others weren't playing the game, others may have other shit going on etc. So you think that these people shouldn't be able to acquire said content for what exclusivity. It's already exclusive, you have to be in the top 100. I am not asking it to be given to me, all I am asking for is it to be is a potential reward for anyone that gets in the top 100. I would still have to participate in their system which would be a good thing for PVP in general, to encourage more to participate. I think that if you do something exactly the same as someone else no matter if it was a year from now or 2 days later. It should have the same reward or at least be an option as a reward. So sure, you could say I feel entitled i guess, I would disagree obv, I just feel for those that were around back then that had real-life shit going on or new players that join the game to be excluded for something because they started playing late is dumb. You think I feel the excitement when I whip out my legacy Chocobo or feel entitled over someone else no. I think it's dumb. The reduce sub was good enough, but when they excluded other players out from in-game content they cross a line.

As for the predatory statement, I changed the original post to exclude it from saying predatory cause I was frustrated, but through other comments, and the bias that I was frustrated at the time of the original post I realize it was not the correct term to use. I don't understand the satisfaction of buying something instead of earning it. To me, it's not awesome, it's like wow man nice you spent $12 or $24 dollars on something, congratz... What does that have to do with playing the game at all? I mean people act like its crazy to think that SE isn't taking the money and using it on something else or excluding content to put on the market place when this is what they do for every single release of a game or expansion. Collector's edition has + in-game content linked to it excluded from the game made for the game. Like I said this is just my opinion and I can't convince someone to stop doing it and SE is not going to stop while customers are okay with it. So it is what it is. This does not invalidate my opinion nor yours of the opposite nature.

I don't think people who weren't in the game for events should get access to them just because they want them. You think you should have access to something you do not without having to fulfill the requirements. Part of seasonal rewards is seasonal prizes. Events or pvp or otherwise.

You also complained about emotes that came with goods as if you should have the option to them without having to buy said goods, although they are exclusively available to be provided with them. The emotes are specifically created to be sold with the statues as an in game incentive to make the company money. A ten dollar a month subscription already affords you tons of content and items to collect. It's crazy how much people expect when they pay so little. Anyway I don't see things changing anytime soon. I think people prefer having exclusive items more than people like having access to everything.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

I don't think people who weren't in the game for events should get access to them just because they want them. You think you should have access to something you do not without having to fulfill the requirements. Part of seasonal rewards is seasonal prizes. Events or pvp or otherwise.

You also complained about emotes that came with goods as if you should have the option to them without having to buy said goods, although they are exclusively available to be provided with them. The emotes are specifically created to be sold with the statues as an in game incentive to make the company money. A ten dollar a month subscription already affords you tons of content and items to collect. It's crazy how much people expect when they pay so little. Anyway I don't see things changing anytime soon. I think people prefer having exclusive items more than people like having access to everything.

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I would pay double or triple to preserve what's best for the player base imo.

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Originally Posted by Malakii

I would pay double or triple to preserve what's best for the player base imo.

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I would dare to say that limited events with limited rewards are infact good for the playerbase - those rewards create an incentive to play certain content. And to do that right now - instead of putting it off again, thinking "Oh, I can always come back to this when I feel like it..."
It creates a certain drive and motivation and actually gets people into this content who normally wouldnt.
I'm thinking especially about the Garo and Yokai events here - Garo even more than Yokai: PvP was never really popular, despite some nice rewards being locked behind it. When Garo was first announced with the addition of "This is going away at somepoint" we suddenly had acceptable PvP-queues for a couple of months, because people wanted to make sure not to miss out. I know its anedotacial, but quite a few of my friends and FC-mates who arent into PvP tried their hands on it during that time - and they wouldnt have wouldnt it been content that was bound to go away.

I think whats best for the playerbase is a mix of rewards that are always available - and rewards that are only there for a limited amount of time, since those later rewards give people a push in a certain direction, to try content they normally wouldnt or to add some motivation to do this content right now. Often to the benefit of other people - you need players for queues, for FATEs. By making certain things limited time only, you concentrate the intrest of players into that timeframe, making sure the content actually gets played. I'm having the Halloween and Valentines Day duties in mind right now: They're only available for a couple of weeks each year, so everyone intrested in them focusses on them in this time frame. If it were more spread out, queues would be much, much slower.