DARKLIGHT GEARS ; ;

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I said it in another thread... I'd like more synergy between the content.. but just some gear that required multiple content to build the best piece
So you got a basic corselet from the dungeon, and then needed to do stuff at other places (Crystal Tower, hamlet Defense, Monster Arena, etc...) to get u/u materia to turn it into Darklight Corselet

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I like the way you think!

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

out of about 120 total SR5C across AV/CC since patch day (600 chests) we've gotten about 25 pieces of Darklight. Only 4~5 body pieces in total.

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Not sure our of total # of runs exactly but it must be around the 200 mark. Our linkshell now has 33 pieces of Darklight and 0 bodies. I would estimate 90-95% of those runs were 5 chest speed runs. Pretty sure we'd kill for 4-5 body pieces at this point.

http://i.imgur.com/hTqZv.png

I find nothingwrong with 1~10% drop rates on gear that is worthwhile as long a the content can remain fresh and engaging. But when you have to mindlessly drone your way through the same-exact-encounter hundreds of times (if not at least a thousand) to fully outfit 8-10 players before the next patch (which is a relatively small group of people, then there's something a little off. inb4 any time filler content until 2.0 ect BS.

SE needs to take a step back and re-evaluate what the word challenging and what the word earned means.

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

http://i.imgur.com/hTqZv.png

I find nothingwrong with 1~10% drop rates on gear that is worthwhile as long a the content can remain fresh and engaging. But when you have to mindlessly drone your way through the same-exact-encounter hundreds of times (if not at least a thousand) to fully outfit 8-10 players before the next patch (which is a relatively small group of people, then there's something a little off. inb4 any time filler content until 2.0 ect BS.

SE needs to take a step back and re-evaluate what the word challenging and what the word earned means.

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I said the same thing in the post I made a week ago. Think it hit 11k views and lot's of opposition. I agree with you 100% though Richard. Looking forward to GW2 tbh.

me too kira me too

I commend you for having the courage to complain about this problem after Kira and I were flamed up and down for starting topics like this. Unfortunately, since 95% of the playerbase isn't farming this content a lot, I don't think SE really cares about the 5% of us burning out. We already got our dev reply: "drop rates are fine and we're not going to change them".

Comments like this demonstrate the problem:

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Originally Posted by Technyze

Be nice if this game was wow and they handed you everything within a weeks work! None of you peoples played FFXI I guess :)

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This seems to be the prevailing attitude among the 95%. Apparently, not wanting to do something hundreds upon hundreds of times means "we want everything handed to us in a week without putting in any effort". That's flat wrong. While you invoke FFXI, did you ever stop to think that, hey, maybe it took so long to get everything you wanted because you couldn't farm content dozens of times a week in that game? You also ignore the fact that FFXI was at the same level cap for, what, nearly 7 years? Drop rates were actually much much higher in FFXI and you got much more reward for the time spent, and the rewards lasted a long time. Can we stop invoking FFXI now?

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Originally Posted by Technyze

Be nice if this game was wow and they handed you everything within a weeks work! None of you peoples played FFXI I guess :)

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Be nice if you played WoW and knew they don't hand you everything within only a week of work. I played XI and WoW, so I can say whatever I want, and RNG drops are stupid.

I don't care if it takes me 20 wins to get a Darklight piece, as long as each win gives me tangible progress towards the goal (such as currency). This random crap needs to go away; it doesn't reward the best players at all or make the gear coveted. I've seen more people who went in CC a hand-full of times in Darklight than I have seen the high-end LS players in it.

What you want me to say? Rare stuff is to be rare and not just by doing a few runs you get them. If you really want them keep doing them. Easy...

Otherwise people after getting that would stop doing them and game died or you could get bored and then wait for next patch for another dungeon/primal burn until get everything again.

DL gear is meant to be rare, not just handed out like pieces of candy. Your AF is more than enough to handle the current content so stop complaining. If you want the best in game stuff prepare to go through the tedious bs a MMO puts you through.

It doesn't matter how you make a battle encounter to obtain gear. The more you do it the more repetitive it will be. People want the best but not willing to put forth the sweat to obtain it.

It's funny how some people on these forums keep trying to get that [I WIN BUTTON] installed.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

go through the tedious bs a MMO puts you through.

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the fact that you passively accept this as being good or acceptable for any next-gen mmo shows just how ignorant anyone who believes this truly is. Repetitive time sinks =/= pleasing content, properly designed content, challenging content, good overall content. Being a no-life gamer myself I understand what it feels like to do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of runs to obtain a complete BiS set of gear. I did HNMs from 2003-2008 in FFXI. I know that feel bro. I'm doing it again in instanced content in FFXIV. It's BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRING AS FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

There are companies and developers who are trying to mix up the norm in endgame MMO content these days. Whether its psuedo-changes to the system or not they are at least making a step forward. SE has learned little from FFXI and the games that have come after it.

Maybe they're saving it all for 2.0? http://i.imgur.com/kyIwQ.png

200-300 runs or more is due effort. "easy" "i win button" "rare should be rare".... people who post things like that are retards. yep, there is some hate for the haters. Not like anyone gets way more bodies in way fewer runs..... oh wait they do. Stop posting retarded things that make it seem like you didn't even bother to read the numbers in this thread.

Remember Nyzul Isle?

100 randomly generated floors with an objective at to advance to the next, every 20 floors there is a Boss battle for loot, Lv20 was shoes, 40 pants, 60 gloves, 80 bodies and 100 heads.

The "puzzles" ranged from killing everything, killing specific monsters to just touching lamps in an order and so on, and on your way you came across copies of NMs that you can kill and hope you get the loot, and since in FFXI NMs had a long long re-spawn timer that was welcomed and can be done here though unnecessary, though it can be done here by adding NEW NMs that drops loot found in chests scattered across our current dungeons.

Those who reach the top can challenge the instance for the higher/better loot at the top floors,

Even if you have reached the top and can use your key item to enter a boss battle, you need to beat the 4 floors leading to the boss. (to fight the lv20 boss you start at floor 16 etc)

This concept can be modernized and used instead of just repeating the same encounter a million times, and if your group was after just gloves or just bodies, they can aim for the boss that drops those.

Also, drop rates can be increased by adding requirements to entering the instance. tokens or seals or maybe the currently useless beast men currencies

That wasn't a bad idea, and should in theory be alot less repetitive and more rewarding/entertaining than what we have now.

Right?

yes i would agree with this than to ppl who ???? about ifrit drop rate, this thing has by far the worst drop rate i ever seem out 32 mmo i ever play.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

Remember Nyzul Isle?

100 randomly generated floors with an objective at to advance to the next, every 20 floors there is a Boss battle for loot, Lv20 was shoes, 40 pants, 60 gloves, 80 bodies and 100 heads.

The "puzzles" ranged from killing everything, killing specific monsters to just touching lamps in an order and so on, and on your way you came across copies of NMs that you can kill and hope you get the loot, and since in FFXI NMs had a long long re-spawn timer that was welcomed and can be done here though unnecessary, though it can be done here by adding NEW NMs that drops loot found in chests scattered across our current dungeons.

Those who reach the top can challenge the instance for the higher/better loot at the top floors,

Even if you have reached the top and can use your key item to enter a boss battle, you need to beat the 4 floors leading to the boss. (to fight the lv20 boss you start at floor 16 etc)

This concept can be modernized and used instead of just repeating the same encounter a million times, and if your group was after just gloves or just bodies, they can aim for the boss that drops those.

Also, drop rates can be increased by adding requirements to entering the instance. tokens or seals or maybe the currently useless beast men currencies

That wasn't a bad idea, and should in theory be alot less repetitive and more rewarding/entertaining than what we have now.

Right?

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I agree, challenge/effort = reward

Make things harder and more puzzles, you should be rewarded according to the effort you put in the game not randomly

I would KILL for some Nyzul Isle in this game but give it about 10x more random floor generations :D

The drop rate for these items is fine, imho. They're amazing items and it should be a little annoying to get them. The real issue is that the content isn't scaled up to match the tier of the items, the dungeon is too easy, and too rewarding for little effort. A group that only runs 5 chest speed runs all day every day can get less DL than a group which does regular, no speed runs, or exclusive speed runs (only the gold and 4th chests) and get more DL simply through luck.

A better way to have dealt with this issue without changing the difficulty of the instance would be to have DL ONLY drop when you get all 5 chests, or to allow DL to drop either way, but increase the % chance of drop by at least ~10% when you get all five chests.

of course the drop rates are low, what else are we suppose to do for the next 8-10 months waiting for 2.0

from another thread...

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Originally Posted by Rydin

The relationship between tedium and difficulty (as referenced many times on this forum) is a precarious one.

Essentially, I see it like this: Time can be a form of difficulty... but is not synonymous with it

For instance: Lay flat on your back and lift your feet six inches off the ground... easy!!!

Next: Hold that position for 4 hours

It doesn't require any "skill"
It would indeed be tedious, but the one thing that makes tedium difficult... the one thing people have yet to reference at all... the one word that defines why that is hard....
Endurance
An endurance test can indeed be difficult. The problem is... in the spirit of balance, all difficulty cannot rely on endurance testing. If it is in game.. I'd like to see it used sparingly, and not overdone on every piece of content
If there were a 16 hour fight... it would be difficult... strictly based on the time it took.
We are definitely in an "Instant Gratification" society
and also... Many people would prefer a video game not be an endurance test
I can definitely see both sides
But try to avoid saying tedious isn't difficulty.. when, in fact, it is... just not the difficulty we want to see.

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I think all people are saying is that very low drop rates on content that they are blowing through is indeed tedious... and that is a form of difficulty... but it is kind of the easiest, laziest form of difficulty a developer can add....

If they wanted DL gear to be epic... they could add 10 new dungeons... and you have to speed run all 10 to get an item from each... having all ten items gives you the opportunity to spawn a big super primal that has a very high drop rate of darklight bodies....

but running one dungeon hundreds of times is an endurance test... not a skill challenge...

Getting to the point where you can speed run it is a skill challenge... but once that happens... it becomes an endurance challenge and that gets old very VERY fast

We just went 0/65 on all chests today :( Shit like that is what makes you stop playing and enjoying what little the game has to offer. Oh well....

only 13 runs? Pretty sure Raikki's LS has gone 8 days straight without DL :P

I just kind of view this as the "race for gear" concept. Everyone wants it NOW and it can be frustrating to constantly repeat something for no return. But, at the same time, what else is there to do? Most of us are stretching to play the game for more than a couple hours at a time. I'm not complaining but the game is going to lose even more people from lack of content than lack of drops. If anything, this is another irritating timesink but oh wells.

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Originally Posted by Yves

I just kind of view this as the "race for gear" concept. Everyone wants it NOW and it can be frustrating to constantly repeat something for no return. But, at the same time, what else is there to do? Most of us are stretching to play the game for more than a couple hours at a time. I'm not complaining but the game is going to lose even more people from lack of content than lack of drops. If anything, this is another irritating timesink but oh wells.

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I think 99.9% of the people that have complained in this thread (about drop rates/content and such) have that complaint well rooted in the way SE is handling content from the start (not so much about the gear itself). It all goes back to the basic mmo content design that SE is royally boning right now. It's 100% about the bigger picture than just DL.

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

only 13 runs? Pretty sure Raikki's LS has gone 8 days straight without DL :P

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Lawls, sucks D;

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

I think 99.9% of the people that have complained in this thread (about drop rates/content and such) have that complaint well rooted in the way SE is handling content from the start (not so much about the gear itself). It all goes back to the basic mmo content design that SE is royally boning right now. It's 100% about the bigger picture than just DL.

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Yeah, I'm with everyone on that. I just think a part of the "bigger picture" is that we (sadly) need timesinks. A small percentage of the population will quit over the crappy droprates. A significantly larger percentage will quit if they run out of junk to do. It isn't fun, it certainly isn't ideal, but it might be necessary.

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Originally Posted by Yves

I just kind of view this as the "race for gear" concept. Everyone wants it NOW and it can be frustrating to constantly repeat something for no return. But, at the same time, what else is there to do? Most of us are stretching to play the game for more than a couple hours at a time. I'm not complaining but the game is going to lose even more people from lack of content than lack of drops. If anything, this is another irritating timesink but oh wells.

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I think this "lack of drops" complaint is a form of "lack of content" though....
there is very little content... so to make gear harder to get, SE has to lower the drop rates to force you to keep repeating the same content over and over....

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Originally Posted by Yves

Yeah, I'm with everyone on that. I just think a part of the "bigger picture" is that we (sadly) need timesinks. A small percentage of the population will quit over the crappy droprates. A significantly larger percentage will quit if they run out of junk to do. It isn't fun, it certainly isn't ideal, but it might be necessary.

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Honestly... if there were a million and one things to do in this game... then the DL drop rates would be higher because they wouldn't expect people to put that much time into one dungeon... and thats what has people ticked off
You are punishing players because YOU failed to add enough content to please the playerbase and keep them busy

There is no reason that SE can't make a load of content that is engaging, challenging and randomized/scaled to certain setups/# of players/situations, while also having a reasonable way to obtain gear. There just is no excuse at this point in the mmo genre.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I think this "lack of drops" complaint is a form of "lack of content" though....
there is very little content... so to make gear harder to get, SE has to lower the drop rates to force you to keep repeating the same content over and over....



Honestly... if there were a million and one things to do in this game... then the DL drop rates would be higher because they wouldn't expect people to put that much time into one dungeon... and thats what has people ticked off
You are punishing players because YOU failed to add enough content to please the playerbase

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Yup. This is entirely a function of content - I don't think anyone can disagree. It sure is irritating but I think we're stuck with it whether we like it or not.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Yup. This is entirely a function of content - I don't think anyone can disagree. It sure is irritating but I think we're stuck with it whether we like it or not.

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Thats probably true

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

There is no reason that SE can't make a load of content that is engaging, challenging and randomized/scaled to certain setups/# of players/situations, while also having a reasonable way to obtain gear. There just is no excuse at this point in the mmo genre.

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I think this is a misconception. They are doing this - it's just that this engine is not the medium they are doing it for. There is about 6-8 months left before 2.0 (depending on who you are what you think) and I don't think they will be doing much more than bare bones for us via the current client. The roadmap doesn't look like it has much more planned. Honestly, I wouldn't expect much from here on out - we're stuck with what we have (as much as that sucks.)

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Originally Posted by Yves

I think this is a misconception. They are doing this - it's just that this engine is not the medium they are doing it for. There is about 6-8 months left before 2.0 (depending on who you are what you think) and I don't think they will be doing much more than bare bones for us via the current client. The roadmap doesn't look like it has much more planned. Honestly, I wouldn't expect much from here on out - we're stuck with what we have (as much as that sucks.)

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well i'll save my judgments for 2.0's content at the E3 release this year. I completely understand that we wont get anything until 2.0 and I accepted that last year. I'm basically just reiterating (mostly to myself and maybe for people who don't understand yet) what SE needs to be doing for 2.0 :)

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

well i'll save my judgments for 2.0's content at the E3 release this year. I completely understand that we wont get anything until 2.0 and I accepted that last year. I'm basically just reiterating (mostly to myself and maybe for people who don't understand yet) what SE needs to be doing for 2.0 :)

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I think one of the nicest things about this process - which can be likened to pooping out a potato - is that the Devs seem to be listening. At first this was awful because we had the whole "this isn't WoW/this isn't XI" wars but that seems to have died down and lately the "true" playerbase is whats left. I have a lot of confidence in what they are working on but, then again, I probably wouldn't switch anyway - I'm a one-game type of person and it reeeeeally has to suck to get me to quit. With promises on the horizon it's enough to keep me around.

Now, if that sucks then I think I'll just go back to playing chess...

our general 'core' of members feels the same way about it too. SWTOR came and went. Tera came and went. GW2 will come and go (but I will be playing it alongside XIV BECAUSEIFKINLOVEITFBNJIEBFNJEBNOFE) but we all are steadfast into this game for the most part. We just REALLY hope it blows our minds this Fall.

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

We just REALLY hope it blows our minds this Fall.

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Well, it's a safe bet that it will blow in some way or another - it's just the question of whether or not it will be our minds and expectations! ^^

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Originally Posted by Yves

Well, it's a safe bet that it will blow in some way or another - it's just the question of whether or not it will be our minds and expectations! ^^

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I do think (hope?) that the entire team will be able to just go super hard at 2.0 content once 1.23 is in the QA phase....
thats like end of summer...
I want to have content... inside of content... wrapped in content

Contentception

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I want to have content... inside of content... wrapped in content

Contentception

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Buddy...I just lol'd IRL and choked on some of my dip! Good poop.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I want to have content... inside of content... wrapped in content

Contentception

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Best food in the game:

http://i.imgur.com/5txpj.png

I wonder why some are in such a hurry sometimes. The patch had just been out, we can re-enter dungeon in a few minutes, we can spend all day doing runs if we wanted, and yet you want higher drop rates? Heck, I even saw the term "junk" already for some pieces that I consider precious.
Do you really want to have full sets in 2-3 weeks time? And then what? Stop playing and come back at next patch like most already do, and flame SE for low content? In another thread there's people also complaining about them spiked armguards, asking to remove crappy drops. What is wrong with you guys?
Are you lot maybe of the spoiled I-Phone generation that flames their parents cause at their 13th birthday they got a white I-Phone 4 S instead of a black one?
I'm sorry but I like to work for my rewards, and feel "special" when I get them, not just one of the lot that finally gets it.

difference in mindsets my dear taru.

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

the fact that you passively accept this as being good or acceptable for any next-gen mmo shows just how ignorant anyone who believes this truly is. Repetitive time sinks =/= pleasing content, properly designed content, challenging content, good overall content. Being a no-life gamer myself I understand what it feels like to do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of runs to obtain a complete BiS set of gear. I did HNMs from 2003-2008 in FFXI. I know that feel bro. I'm doing it again in instanced content in FFXIV. It's BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRING AS FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

There are companies and developers who are trying to mix up the norm in endgame MMO content these days. Whether its psuedo-changes to the system or not they are at least making a step forward. SE has learned little from FFXI and the games that have come after it.

Maybe they're saving it all for 2.0? http://i.imgur.com/kyIwQ.png

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It's amazing how "bad" the idea is yet these same people are still actively playing the game trying to obtain it. If the system was so messed up why keep pursuing it? Why not everyone stop and massively complain on the threads about it, like other subjects that made the game a horrible experience(this thread is far from massive...)? That goal of yours obviously has you addicted regardless of how annoying it is when you don't win. It's like those people that actively play the lottery for 60+ years of their life.

The fact is you don't need the gear what so ever. You can go into 2.0 never getting it and still be able to accomplish content without being gimped for it. Most MMOs balance their content around the "best" in game gear which is why it's so easy to obtain or more effort equals the closer you get to it. In FFXIV the gear needed to compete is thrown at you while the best is not. There is no tier style of gear like you would find in WoW/SWTOR to progress towards.

It's like materia for example. You only need 1 yet there are those that still pursue more power. You only need AF yet people still pursue more power. Being greater than the current content is a lottery ticket type of deal, yes. Nothing is forcing you to be better(stats wise) than the current except your own desire for more power.

It's also amazing how people agree with the Nyzul Isle style of doing things. Oh how I remember so many people calling that a grind also. I might be ignorant for having a sense of understanding, but I know any system they add to obtain gear will turn from a luck based grind to a progressively long grind. If they increase the drop rates other bs will just be thrown at your face and a different group of people will complain about that.

So yes, it is handing out a [I WIN BUTTON] if they allow the gear that's better than the current content to just be handed out. They would then have to balance content around said easy obtainable gear.

I enjoy the fact that in FFXIV you have a chance at actually being better than the content in both skill and stats.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

we can spend all day doing runs if we wanted

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What a fabulous idea to balance MMO content around.